Extreme Associates. Do YOU consider their material obscene? - GoFuckYourself.com

ADL Colin · 03-03-2005, 05:26 AM

Much talk of Gonzales and the Extreme Associates case being challenged. Fuck the government. What do YOU think of simulated gang rapes, beatings and violent attacks on women? Would you sell it? Would you film it? Would you watch it? Do you think they should have a legal right to produce this material?

.:St Ides:. · 03-03-2005, 05:28 AM

This is a touchy subject, I think we work in an industry where we have to stick by freedom of speech and expression. If the model was fully aware of what she was getting into, what the scene would consist of, and had no problem doing it then there is nothing wrong with it. We can't pick and choose. If the model is consenting and legal age it's fair game.

This falls under the if you don't like it or approve then look away area for most.

AsianDivaGirlsWebDude · 03-03-2005, 05:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Almighty Colin

What do YOU think of simulated gang rapes, beatings and violent attacks on women? Would you sell it? Would you film it? Would you watch it?

I'm against, and say "NO" to all of the above which I quoted.

Some people will do anything for a buck. I won't.

ADG Webmaster

Voodoo · 03-03-2005, 05:34 AM

EA is going to either set an example, or they will be made one. If they set an example, I can only pray for our industry, as it will only get worse. I do not agree with their content what-so-ever, but think they should have the right to produce it, under Freedom of Speech. However, there really needs to be some sort of limitations put on content production, such as a 3rd party rating system, that warns people clearly what is contained within the contents. Mainstream movies have it, why doesn't porn?

ADL Colin · 03-03-2005, 05:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Voodoo

EA is going to either set an example, or they will be made one. If they set an example, I can only pray for our industry, as it will only get worse. I do not agree with their content what-so-ever, but think they should have the right to produce it, under Freedom of Speech. However, there really needs to be some sort of limitations put on content production, such as a 3rd party rating system, that warns people clearly what is contained within the contents. Mainstream movies have it, why doesn't porn?

Do people not know when they are buying extreme (violent) porn?

.:St Ides:. · 03-03-2005, 05:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Voodoo

EA is going to either set an example, or they will be made one. If they set an example, I can only pray for our industry, as it will only get worse. I do not agree with their content what-so-ever, but think they should have the right to produce it, under Freedom of Speech. However, there really needs to be some sort of limitations put on content production, such as a 3rd party rating system, that warns people clearly what is contained within the contents. Mainstream movies have it, why doesn't porn?

The movies in question fall under what they call a "directors cut" which is openly pushed as more extreme then a regular adult film. Directors cuts fall under a more Euro style video.

This is a lot of the content in question in North America is rather normal in Europe and Asia.

Dugmor · 03-03-2005, 05:39 AM

I think it is fine as long as the models are consenting !

.:St Ides:. · 03-03-2005, 05:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Almighty Colin

Do people not know when they are buying extreme (violent) porn?

Yes they would, one of the titles was called Forced Entry which is based on some local serial killers in Los Angeles. One being the nightstalker Richard Ramirez. If you look on the website when buying this video it says

Homicidal Rapists and Serial Killers as well as the poor, lost sluts they Kidnap, torture, rape and Kill! Not For The Squimish!

I think that bout covers it.

.:St Ides:. · 03-03-2005, 05:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dugmor

I think it is fine as long as the models are consenting !

Looking at your sig that's a very proper statement.

ADL Colin · 03-03-2005, 05:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dugmor

I think it is fine as long as the models are consenting !

What do you think about simulated child porn? Say, a consenting 18 year old model pretending to be 16?

.:St Ides:. · 03-03-2005, 05:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Almighty Colin

What do you think about simulated child porn? Say, a consenting 18 year old model pretending to be 16?

It's legal to do in mainstream movies, or hollywood movies. Look at American Beauty that won the awards, they were high school kids getting naked, one with an older married man, she was topless and trying to kiss him.

This stuff is all touchy and no one will ever agree where to stand on this stuff.

I myself believe that doing this is wrong, and that it does cater to the people who probably should not be watching porn. Does their age really need to be said?

If they are in a school girl outfit, or a cheerleader outfit I think it serves its purpose. If someone has a fantasy about being with someone under age, they can select the age they feel the model is when jerking off to them, but saying they are underage is just wrong.

ADL Colin · 03-03-2005, 05:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by .:St Ides:.

It's legal to do in mainstream movies, or hollywood movies. Look at American Beauty that won the awards, they were high school kids getting naked, one with an older married man, she was topless and trying to kiss him.

This stuff is all touchy and no one will ever agree where to stand on this stuff.

I myself believe that doing this is wrong, and that it does cater to the people who probably should not be watching porn. Does their age really need to be said?

If they are in a school girl outfit, or a cheerleader outfit I think it serves its purpose. If someone has a fantasy about being with someone under age, they can select the age they feel the model is when jerking off to them, but saying they are underage is just wrong.

How about a porn where a girl and a guy come home from high school together? Maybe they were held back ;-)

fl_prn_str · 03-03-2005, 05:50 AM

I feel as long as the model wasnt cohersed or intoxicated.....wtf.....

.:St Ides:. · 03-03-2005, 05:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Almighty Colin

How about a porn where a girl and a guy come home from high school together? Maybe they were held back ;-)

It's been done, and if you look at a lot of the teen sites out there the models are shot around lockers or in hall ways with lockers all around so it appears to be in a high school

Shooting it in this style is fine, but when you start naming ages I think it goes over the line. Of course this is just my opinion.

ADL Colin · 03-03-2005, 05:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by .:St Ides:.

It's been done, and if you look at a lot of the teen sites out there the models are shot around lockers or in hall ways with lockers all around so it appears to be in a high school

Shooting it in this style is fine, but when you start naming ages I think it goes over the line. Of course this is just my opinion.

Yeah, that's true. Tough call as to where the line is.

.:St Ides:. · 03-03-2005, 05:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Almighty Colin

Yeah, that's true. Tough call as to where the line is.

There isn't a line and there should not be. People should not abuse the system to make a buck. There are enough horny fuckers with a credit card that you should not need to do that to make a buck

ADL Colin · 03-03-2005, 06:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by .:St Ides:.

There isn't a line and there should not be. People should not abuse the system to make a buck. There are enough horny fuckers with a credit card that you should not need to do that to make a buck

Not "naming ages". That is where you want the line to be. ;-)

NickPapageorgio · 03-03-2005, 06:16 AM

I must ask a few preliminary questions before I answer that:

#1. Does the material involve animals?

#2. Does the material involve children?

#3. Were all parties involved consenting adults on the day of filming?

#4. While I may not subscribe to a certain genre of adult entertainment, is it my JOB to say what is ok for other adults to view within the confines of their own home privately?

If I answer "No" to all 4 of the questions above then they should be allowed to produce it, and I should be allowed to purchase it and view it in my home if I want.

I don't see any gray area. If those 4 answers are no then it should be legal. Scat? Sure if all 4 questions were answered no. Fisting? Sure if all 4 questions were answered no. So on and so on...

Voodoo · 03-03-2005, 06:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NickPapageorgio

I must ask a few preliminary questions before I answer that:

#1. Does the material involve animals?

#2. Does the material involve children?

#3. Were all parties involved consenting adults on the day of filming?

#4. While I may not subscribe to a certain genre of adult entertainment, is it my JOB to say what is ok for other adults to view within the confines of their own home privately?

If I answer "No" to all 4 of the questions above then they should be allowed to produce it, and I should be allowed to purchase it and view it in my home if I want.

I don't see any gray area. If those 4 answers are no then it should be legal. Scat? Sure if all 4 questions were answered no. Fisting? Sure if all 4 questions were answered no. So on and so on...

Simulated Rape?
Simulated Necrophilia?

NickPapageorgio · 03-03-2005, 06:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Voodoo

Simulated Rape?
Simulated Necrophilia?

See questions #1 - #4

NickPapageorgio · 03-03-2005, 06:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Voodoo

Simulated Rape?
Simulated Necrophilia?

And by the way, both of those exist in mainstream movies, they just don't show the tallywhacker go in and out of the cha cha. What's the difference? The reference is still there. It's still simulated rape or simulated necrophilia....

.:St Ides:. · 03-03-2005, 06:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Voodoo

Simulated Rape?
Simulated Necrophilia?

The key word there is simulated. It's two consenting people having sex on film. can't censor some and not others. Compare simulated rape to what goes on in a lot of bdsm sites. It gets touchy when you enter that.

Are you also against what could be portrayed as scat? Just chocolate

.:St Ides:. · 03-03-2005, 06:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NickPapageorgio

And by the way, both of those exist in mainstream movies, they just don't show the tallywhacker go in and out of the cha cha. What's the difference? The reference is still there. It's still simulated rape or simulated necrophilia....

Voodoo · 03-03-2005, 06:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NickPapageorgio

See questions #1 - #4

So by your questions, you would say that Simulated Rape and Simulated Necrophilia should be allowed, as they do not involve children, nor do they involve animals, both parties are consenting. Ok, how about Actual Self-Mutilation? Or Suicide Videos?

The legal age to be adult in most states is 18. Let's say that you have a son or daughter, and they decide to build a library of sick ass shit, like Self-Mutiliation, Suicide, Simulated Rape, Simulated Torture, Simulated Necrophilia, etc... Legally, you can't do shit about it, because they are 18 and by law would be allowed to buy them under your method. And you would be okay with it??????

NickPapageorgio · 03-03-2005, 06:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Voodoo

So by your questions, you would say that Simulated Rape and Simulated Necrophilia should be allowed, as they do not involve children, nor do they involve animals, both parties are consenting. Ok, how about Actual Self-Mutilation? Or Suicide Videos?

The legal age to be adult in most states is 18. Let's say that you have a son or daughter, and they decide to build a library of sick ass shit, like Self-Mutiliation, Suicide, Simulated Rape, Simulated Torture, Simulated Necrophilia, etc... Legally, you can't do shit about it, because they are 18 and by law would be allowed to buy them under your method. And you would be okay with it??????

#4 answers this question.

While I may not APPROVE of it or SUBSCRIBE to it, it DOES NOT give me the right to say that you can't view it.

What if I have a phobia about flowers, and you INSIST on growing them in your front yard? Do I have the right to tell you to get rid of the flowers if the problem mentally is on my end?

Now, if you start growing YOUR flowers in MY yard we have a problem...

Also, I try to do a little thing that has been long forgotten by many people. It's called actually PARENTING my children. Hopefully, with my guidance, they will understand right from wrong and reality from fantasy. Once they turn 18 however, it's no longer my choice to make for them. They are adults and can do as they see fit.

.:St Ides:. · 03-03-2005, 06:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Voodoo

So by your questions, you would say that Simulated Rape and Simulated Necrophilia should be allowed, as they do not involve children, nor do they involve animals, both parties are consenting. Ok, how about Actual Self-Mutilation? Or Suicide Videos?

The legal age to be adult in most states is 18. Let's say that you have a son or daughter, and they decide to build a library of sick ass shit, like Self-Mutiliation, Suicide, Simulated Rape, Simulated Torture, Simulated Necrophilia, etc... Legally, you can't do shit about it, because they are 18 and by law would be allowed to buy them under your method. And you would be okay with it??????

Be okay with no, but they are 18 and are able to choose what they watch are are into. This is when a parent can then choose to speak with it's child and discuss why they may be into these things. People want to shift blame a lot these days, but be a good parent teach your kids what is right and what is wrong, what is real and what is fake.

Are the videos wrong, yes to an extent, are they legal to make and show yes. It can't be freedom or speech, but no rape, torture, etc etc.

Soon it will be freedom of speech, but no rape, torture, teens, pigtails, no women under 5 feet high etc etc.

People are allowed to make choices, the women in these videos agree to do it, and sign a model release stateing they approve of what they are doing. We can't tell people they can't have sex a certain way. People are into sick shit plain and simple. Don't like it change the channel.

I advise anyone who has issues with certain content to travel Europe and Asia, see what's the norm over there. You may change what you are thinking.

chodadog · 03-03-2005, 06:32 AM

Is it obscene? In my personal opinion, yes. However, i don't think obscenity should be illegal. People should have the right to be as obscene as they please so long as they're not hurting anyone but themselves and other adults who agree to participate.

.:St Ides:. · 03-03-2005, 06:34 AM

What if your kid turns 18 and gets very into horror movies the blood the death the murder the mutilation and starts collecting dvd's and etc. Should this be right?

Same thing, but it has sex involved. Since we can see a cock going into a pussy this makes it wrong, but a movie that has rape in it is ok?

Voodoo · 03-03-2005, 06:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NickPapageorgio

#4 answers this question.

While I may not APPROVE of it or SUBSCRIBE to it, it DOES NOT give me the right to say that you can't view it.

What if I have a phobia about flowers, and you INSIST on growing them in your front yard? Do I have the right to tell you to get rid of the flowers if the problem mentally is on my end?

Now, if you start growing YOUR flowers in MY yard we have a problem...

Also, I try to do a little thing that has been long forgotten by many people. It's called actually PARENTING my children. Hopefully, with my guidance, they will understand right from wrong and reality from fantasy. Once they turn 18 however, it's no longer my choice to make for them. They are adults and can do as they see fit.

So, are you saying, that if you had a son/daughter who was 18+, and you found they had 50 videos of Self-Mutilation, Sim Rape, Sim Necro, Suicide etc... stashed in a collection, along with some Satanic books and a few guns and knives, you would be perfectly okay with it, because the "Law" allows it.

Alright. Now, I see why our country is so bass ackward.

IMHO, I don't give a shit how effing old you are 18 or not, if you came from MY DNA, I will kick the shit out of you if I found that shit. I will do prison time to get my point across to my own flesh & blood. That shit is WRONG. Pure and simple. Whether the law allows it or not.

Which brings this back to that the EA thing is more of a Moral issue than anything. Granted, they are not pushing Sim Necro, but where do we draw the line?

.:St Ides:. · 03-03-2005, 06:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Voodoo

So, are you saying, that if you had a son/daughter who was 18+, and you found they had 50 videos of Self-Mutilation, Sim Rape, Sim Necro, Suicide etc... stashed in a collection, along with some Satanic books and a few guns and knives, you would be perfectly okay with it, because the "Law" allows it.

Alright. Now, I see why our country is so bass ackward.

IMHO, I don't give a shit how effing old you are 18 or not, if you came from MY DNA, I will kick the shit out of you if I found that shit. I will do prison time to get my point across to my own flesh & blood. That shit is WRONG. Pure and simple. Whether the law allows it or not.

Which brings this back to that the EA thing is more of a Moral issue than anything. Granted, they are not pushing Sim Necro, but where do we draw the line?

Now it's satanic books, guns knives etc etc.. I think we have gotten off the subject of if it's ok or not.

If your kid was 18 and had these things you should be kicking the shit out of yourself and being a bad parent.

If your kid had a gun a knife and a satanic book you'd kick the shit out of him and go to jail.. I think if anything the kid would need a parent and someone to talk to. I think your reply is a bit ass backwords to me.

Is what they are doing wrong, yes, is it legal yes. Are the people in the video constenting yes. Nuff said.

theking · 03-03-2005, 06:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Almighty Colin

Much talk of Gonzales and the Extreme Associates case being challenged. Fuck the government. What do YOU think of simulated gang rapes, beatings and violent attacks on women? Would you sell it? Would you film it? Would you watch it? Do you think they should have a legal right to produce this material?

If I am not mistaken...the Supreme Court has previously determed that "Community Standards" be the defining factor to establish what is "obscene"..or not "obscene". Because the United States...is just that...United States...with State Rights...in addition to individual County and Municipal Rights. I really do not have a problem with "Community Standards" prevailing.

I do have somewhat of a problem with the Federal Government making the determination of what is "obscene" and forcing that determination upon State...County...and Municipal Governments.

NickPapageorgio · 03-03-2005, 06:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Voodoo

So, are you saying, that if you had a son/daughter who was 18+, and you found they had 50 videos of Self-Mutilation, Sim Rape, Sim Necro, Suicide etc... stashed in a collection, along with some Satanic books and a few guns and knives, you would be perfectly okay with it, because the "Law" allows it.

Alright. Now, I see why our country is so bass ackward.

IMHO, I don't give a shit how effing old you are 18 or not, if you came from MY DNA, I will kick the shit out of you if I found that shit. I will do prison time to get my point across to my own flesh & blood. That shit is WRONG. Pure and simple. Whether the law allows it or not.

Which brings this back to that the EA thing is more of a Moral issue than anything. Granted, they are not pushing Sim Necro, but where do we draw the line?

What's moral to you may not be moral to someone else is my point. Legally speaking, when a person turns 18 they have a right, just as you have a right, to view this stuff, Whether they are your kids or not. All your job as a parent is, to provide the guidance BEFORE THEY ARE 18 that will guide them along the path of what is right and what is wrong. If you instill your morals in them, then hopefully they will live by your morals. If they don't, then it is on them.

People should spend less time trying to babysit the rest of the world and more time babysitting their own kids. THAT'S why this world is fucked up. Not because of some porno flick. It's because people can't mind their own business and take care of what's at home before they are out crusading against something they don't understand.

Voodoo · 03-03-2005, 06:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by .:St Ides:.

Now it's satanic books, guns knives etc etc.. I think we have gotten off the subject of if it's ok or not.

If your kid was 18 and had these things you should be kicking the shit out of yourself and being a bad parent.

If your kid had a gun a knife and a satanic book you'd kick the shit out of him and go to jail.. I think if anything the kid would need a parent and someone to talk to. I think your reply is a bit ass backwords to me.

Is what they are doing wrong, yes, is it legal yes. Are the people in the video constenting yes. Nuff said.

I was illustrating a point. The point being, that assuming you did everything in your power to develop a responsible adult, who knows the difference between right and wrong, and your child still collects these type of videos / books... whatever.

You cannot honestly tell me that you would be "Okay" with that. Can you?

If you can, then this conversation is over. Because you need some help.

If you find a problem with it, then, the question arises... Who is to blame?
1. The Parent even though you did everything you could.
2. The Consumer (Your Kid)
3. The Producer for creating the atrocities
4. The FedEx Guy for delivering it
5. The Gov't for not restricting these types of consumables
6. The website for displaying it
7. Visa for allowing the charge
8. Or?????

If the law did not restrict these types of purchases, who would? Do you believe there should be no restrictions? Do you believe in the "Anything Goes" scenerio?

I'm not beefing with you, I'm just trying to understand. I personally don't care about it much either way, other than, I think allowing this type of stuff is going to make it VERY difficult to do business in the future. Restricting this type of content, will only help our industry.

Just some thoughts.

.:St Ides:. · 03-03-2005, 06:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Voodoo

I was illustrating a point. The point being, that assuming you did everything in your power to develop a responsible adult, who knows the difference between right and wrong, and your child still collects these type of videos / books... whatever.

You cannot honestly tell me that you would be "Okay" with that. Can you?

If you can, then this conversation is over. Because you need some help.

If you find a problem with it, then, the question arises... Who is to blame?
1. The Parent even though you did everything you could.
2. The Consumer (Your Kid)
3. The Producer for creating the atrocities
4. The FedEx Guy for delivering it
5. The Gov't for not restricting these types of consumables
6. The website for displaying it
7. Visa for allowing the charge
8. Or?????

If the law did not restrict these types of purchases, who would? Do you believe there should be no restrictions? Do you believe in the "Anything Goes" scenerio?

I'm not beefing with you, I'm just trying to understand. I personally don't care about it much either way, other than, I think allowing this type of stuff is going to make it VERY difficult to do business in the future. Restricting this type of content, will only help our industry.

Just some thoughts.

I would need help if my child who is now an adult decided to read the satanic bible and collects guns and knives.

Your point was that you'd be the shit out of them and go to jail, my point is that I would try to talk to them and figure out what they are choosing these things as part of their life.

And you say if I made that choice I need help. I think you may for kicking their ass and going to jail.

This type of stuff won't make it difficult to do biz in the future, the people installing spyware, spamming illegally, credit card scams, stealing traffic, is what is going to make it hard to do biz in the future. We will be long dead before they will ever set some sort of internet law. .com is not owned by the US, so they can't try and police it, that's never going to happen. It's simple don't like the laws there move to mexico, you can do what ever you want on your website from there.

As I have said go to europe and asia see the content there and content here is tame.

They've been trying to set Porn laws for years now and have not come close to doing any damage to the video side of the industry so I doubt the net has to worry.

.:St Ides:. · 03-03-2005, 06:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Voodoo

If you find a problem with it, then, the question arises... Who is to blame?
1. The Parent even though you did everything you could.
2. The Consumer (Your Kid)
3. The Producer for creating the atrocities
4. The FedEx Guy for delivering it
5. The Gov't for not restricting these types of consumables
6. The website for displaying it
7. Visa for allowing the charge
8. Or?????

I also don't think someone owning videos of this type of porn would affect the net at all. That's an entire different story.

.:St Ides:. · 03-03-2005, 07:00 AM

Limiting and policeing these things goes against many freedoms, freedom of speech, choice and expression. If these things were limited and were censored and banned, then something else would become the whipping boy, and then the government could start picking things off one at a time. If the worst out there is not the worst anymore something would need to take it's place, I think that would make it hard to do business in the future as well.

NickPapageorgio · 03-03-2005, 07:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Voodoo

I was illustrating a point. The point being, that assuming you did everything in your power to develop a responsible adult, who knows the difference between right and wrong, and your child still collects these type of videos / books... whatever.

You cannot honestly tell me that you would be "Okay" with that. Can you?

If you can, then this conversation is over. Because you need some help.

If you find a problem with it, then, the question arises... Who is to blame?
1. The Parent even though you did everything you could.
2. The Consumer (Your Kid)
3. The Producer for creating the atrocities
4. The FedEx Guy for delivering it
5. The Gov't for not restricting these types of consumables
6. The website for displaying it
7. Visa for allowing the charge
8. Or?????

If the law did not restrict these types of purchases, who would? Do you believe there should be no restrictions? Do you believe in the "Anything Goes" scenerio?

I'm not beefing with you, I'm just trying to understand. I personally don't care about it much either way, other than, I think allowing this type of stuff is going to make it VERY difficult to do business in the future. Restricting this type of content, will only help our industry.

Just some thoughts.

Noone's beefing bro. It's discussions like this that would make this board a better place. Both sides have their stance, and both sides are trying to see the others point of view. That's what it's all about.

Now you asked personally, would I be ok if my son or daughter ended up collecting this type of material? No for some of it. I would personally be upset that they had gone off on some weird sexual tangent that involved blood or mutilation, BUT, I still would not interfere. While I may not like what they are doing, if they are an adult, it's none of my business. I did my job. I tried to raise them the best I knew how. If they subscribe to some wild sexual practices that I don't quite understand, then that is their right. Just because I don't get off on something or understand it for that matter, doesn't mean that someone else shouldn't be allowed to enjoy it if it is their cup of tea. THAT is my point. Everyone has different tastes. Some are less tasteful than what you would consider normal. Some have much higher standards than you.

Should a religious person, who hates porn in all forms, have the right to tell you that you cannot view regular porn? Nothing extreme, just male/female.

Before you answer "No they shouldn't have a right to..." , think about the question in relation to this. They see all porn the same way you see EA's porn. It's all bad. To them, vanilla porn is just as bad as EA stuff. They don't approve of any of it. Do they have the right to say that you cannot watch regular old porn? It's immoral to them. But not immoral to you.

Gunni · 03-03-2005, 07:16 AM

anything bwtween two (or more) consenting adults is ok.

If you want to draw lines, do it in your own damn book not mine (cause then you would be damaging my property and violating my rights ;) )

Do you find scat disgusting? I know I do, but why the fuck would I care if other people like it? If I found scat, satanic bibles etc. in my kids possession, I would be upset sure, but I wouldn't beat them... That would just create resentment, and obvisoulsy alienate an already alianated and rebelious kid even more...

Interestingly enough, simulated rape sites apear to be quite popular with women, I will try to find a poll made by some big company like Durex or something, but there in the "Role Playing" category, rape was the most popular fantasy with women...

It doesn't say these women actually would like to get raped, just they might like to be "willingly" raped by someone they fancy

vicki · 03-03-2005, 07:23 AM

This is a very touchy subject for anyone in the US, especially those of us in this industry. Although personally I find it objectionable, would I step beyond the line and say its a no-no?? *eek* .. our constitution is based on freedom of speech and expression - so I'd have to back off on it.

Do I think the individuals in charge of shooting the content and offering it for sale should SELF censor .. you bet your arse I do, if for no other reason than to consider how their actions might affect the rest of the industry.

simple summation to the exact question of the thread:
do *I* consider their material obscene - yes
would I sell it - no
would I film it - no
would I watch it - no, unfortunately I've lived the real thing - i'll pass on watching men get their jollies from such degradation.
do *I* think it should be considered illegal - NO!

Colin, you ask such a heated question but don't give your own viewpoints on it ... cmon .. spill your opinions like you ask us to lol

Voodoo · 03-03-2005, 07:25 AM

Juiiiicy!

Tom_PM · 03-03-2005, 07:47 AM

I think this is a case where they're going to learn you can't say something that nobody see's out in the open as "obscene".

What I mean is, in the days where obscenity laws were passed, VCR's and direct to home sales of porn didnt exist. The fact that the *ONLY* people who will be FORCED to view the material will be 12 Jurors is a useless way to try to prosecute based on obscenity.

If I go to their website and CHOOSE to purchase any video, have it shipped to my home and watch it with a big tub of popcorn, I obviously don't think it's obscene! I think it's something I wanted to watch.

"You" the people are entirely unaffected by my choice of viewing material. You have no say whether or not I should enjoy it or not. I'm not in your house forcing you to stop watching The Bachelorette because it erodes society, or burning your Harlequinn Romance novels because they offend me with their shallow drivel.

I think they're barking up the entirely wrong tree on this one, and I'm fine with that.

Tom_PM · 03-03-2005, 07:53 AM

BTW: To actually answer the thread question (doh), I wouldnt know if I would call their material "obscene", as I've never choosen to view it. It's sort of moot I think..
I'm pretty sure that the only way to answer that is if I went to a movie theater advertising "entertainment generally acceptable to the public" and I disagreed. Then I have a case I think..

Cassie · 03-03-2005, 08:03 AM

although i would never watch nor buy their videos, a person does have the right to decide what it is they will watch and purchase. i would not sit in judgment of a person's right to choose, freedom of expression or freedom of speech.

it's not as it people are not aware of what type of videos this company produces - hello "extreme" associates!

chodadog · 03-03-2005, 08:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Voodoo

Granted, they are not pushing Sim Necro, but where do we draw the line?

Oh man, Electronic Arts are going to pick that one up in an instant.

TheSaint · 03-03-2005, 08:41 AM

I have never seen the videos. I may sound old fashioned on this, but while I don't think there is anything illegal in the movies, I would not promote them. There is lots of legal stuff I will not touch, for example rough sex videos which I think are just wrong and encourage the kids seeing them to think that it would be good to spit in a woman's face while having sex with her, my

Anybody ever see 60's and 70's porn? The action is the same - bj, fuck, and anal - only the woman is having a good time. In my opinion a lot of the shit made today like ass to mouth is over the line, should not be made, but I guess as long as there is a buck to be made it will get created.

AsianDivaGirlsWebDude · 03-03-2005, 08:55 AM

I feel many self-proclaimed First Amendment freedom fighters in the adult industry are totally misguided and hide behind the guise of freedom, when in fact, some of what they are presenting is totally reprehensible, and represents indefensible forms of human behavior.

As far as I am concerned, there is nothing artistic, and there are few (if any) freedom of speech issues involved in such things as conning "bums" into maiming or possibly even beating other poor people to death, simply because they signed a consent form and they are paid to do it.

Yet BumFights and other such web sites still exist. I have not seen the EA content, so I am not specifically commenting upon it, however if it is as it has been described on Nightline recently, I might possibly find some of their content objectionable on similar grounds.

There is a difference between simulated and actual behavior. Hollywood, the gaming industry, and others seem to understand this and self-regulate themselves accordingly in most instances, even with regards to simulated behavior.

Fortunately, so do most of the people I have encountered in the adult industry. Even the savage sport of boxing abides by certain rules.

The same cannot be said for some of the most extreme content packaged and sold to miscreants these days by a fringe element within the adult industry (who profess to speak for us all).

At times it seems that the loudest most ardent voices often come from these same people. Of course they, and certainly not most of us, have the most to lose.

I ask, why appeal to the most evil instincts of people, and feed depravity and negativity that robs others of even a shread of humanity or self-worth? It appears to be more about making a buck than standing up for any noble principles.

I try to be tolerant, but I find myself questioning why the actual beating of women (or men), or treating of people in what would otherwise be considered inhumane or criminal ways should be tolerated within the adult industry irregardless of consent forms and cash.

I do not feel you are being a champion of the adult industry when you embark on these ventures. Face it, some in the adult industry are losers and sick people who don't care how much they debase others, and they appear unwilling to take any responsibility or accountabilty for the pain and suffering which they bring upon others, both directly and indirectly no matter how noble they try to make themselves appear.

Believe me, I feel similar ways about the government. I regret, speak out, and take action, against the government in the name of the many foreign people whom have been killed wrongly in the name of freedom, and the many American lives that have been sacrificed in vain merely to profit the ruling elite.

A problem I see is that which the worst offenders within the adult industry are doing is not making anything better, and may possibly contribute to making matters worse for the vast majority of us.

As others have stated, it's very hard for anyone in the adult industry to speak out against such issues without appearing hypocritical. Especially when more conservative elements in this society, and many other societies, consider even the most softcore content that many of us produce to be equally as evil. Still, I am more inclined to trust in the majority as I seek to express my own views and expand the boundaries to that which I feel is acceptable.

It pains me to speak out against some of the acitivities of other producers in the industry. I certainly don't appreciate the ridicule that my being willing to speak out about my feelings on these issues brings forth against me. On many issues, I can say that I am in agreement with them. In some, I must refuse to go along.

Sometimes you have to take a stand against bullies - be they within the government or even within the adult industry (basically extremists on either end). For example, I must say that torturing prisoners is wrong, and I believe I must speak out against racism, and I feel that I have to say no to blatantly misogynistic/degrading acts in the adult industry. Otherwise the bullies win.

The people that want to promote and profit from the worst in the adult industry have honed and are experts at making their case that anything goes - it stands to reason since their business survival depends upon it.

Although often out of little more than selfish self-interest, these same people frequently pose as the greatest enemy of those viewed in possibly an even worse light than themselves - such as people involved in child porn or beastiality. How hypocritical is that? I would say much more than mine.

I refuse to buy into that. I think acceptable lines can be drawn which permit 95%+, or as much as 99% of us, to create responsible erotica.

This is a complex issue, yet in some ways it is simple. Start with the basic principle of doing unto others as you would have them do unto you. Sure, the most despicable creatures in society have no moral boundaries. However, that doesn't mean anyone should join them if it goes against their better sense. If anything, they are the ones you should speak out against most.

Settng a mimimum bar for society is the responsibility even for those of us within the adult industry. I'm sure this debate will be waged on so long as there are people willing to put profits before people, and many people on the other side remain silent when confronted by such people. We all have a voice. Democracy is acheived only when people educate themselves, look within themselves, and then speak out and take action on important issues.

A good approach might be to begin by speaking out and promoting the middle ground first. Then, once there is consensus among a strong majority, work at pushing the boundaries out in both directions to include as many people as possible. That is a basic principle of most modern enlightened societies. The biggest problems are caused by fringe elements on either side.

I don't have all of the answers. I simply refuse to be silenced by bullies that represent what I consider to be the worst about the adult industry.

Thank you for hearing out my rather long rant.

ADG Webmaster

arg · 03-03-2005, 08:59 AM

Here's the definition of obscenity for US legal purposes:

"For something to be 'obscene' it must be shown that the average person, applying contemporary community standards and viewing the material as a whole, would find (1) that the work appeals predominantly to "prurient" interest; (2) that it depicts or describes sexual conduct in a patently offensive way; and (3) that it lacks serious literary, artistic, political or scientific value."

There's no absolute answer as to whether something is obscene, material is deemed obscene only if a jury unanimously agrees that it's obscene, and different juries will rule differently about the same exact material. I haven't seen much of Extreme's material, but from what I have seen, personally I'd find it non-obscene, failing part (2) of the above test.

FetishWeb · 03-03-2005, 09:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Almighty Colin

Much talk of Gonzales and the Extreme Associates case being challenged. Fuck the government. What do YOU think of simulated gang rapes, beatings and violent attacks on women? Would you sell it? Would you film it? Would you watch it? Do you think they should have a legal right to produce this material?

I'm against that kind of material.

But on the other hand, if the government isn't spending its resources prosecuting over that kind of material they would be prosecuting others for anything else it may deem obscene (ie, a2m, choke fucking, bukkake).

Really, extreme stuff keeps the authorities of everyone else's back.

SykkBoy · 03-03-2005, 09:11 AM

I'm thinking about emailing a link to this thread to my aunt...she wants ALL OF US thrown in jail for what we do....wouldn't it be fun if she got to decide what we can and can't do in this industry?

My grandmother was the same way...imagine she was in charge of where the boundaries are?

SykkBoy · 03-03-2005, 09:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Voodoo

The legal age to be adult in most states is 18. Let's say that you have a son or daughter, and they decide to build a library of sick ass shit, like Self-Mutiliation, Suicide, Simulated Rape, Simulated Torture, Simulated Necrophilia, etc... Legally, you can't do shit about it, because they are 18 and by law would be allowed to buy them under your method. And you would be okay with it??????

it could be worse...they could be reading the bible...

03-03-2005, 06:16 AM	#18
NickPapageorgio Confirmed User Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: NC Posts: 8,323	I must ask a few preliminary questions before I answer that: #1. Does the material involve animals? #2. Does the material involve children? #3. Were all parties involved consenting adults on the day of filming? #4. While I may not subscribe to a certain genre of adult entertainment, is it my JOB to say what is ok for other adults to view within the confines of their own home privately? If I answer "No" to all 4 of the questions above then they should be allowed to produce it, and I should be allowed to purchase it and view it in my home if I want. I don't see any gray area. If those 4 answers are no then it should be legal. Scat? Sure if all 4 questions were answered no. Fisting? Sure if all 4 questions were answered no. So on and so on... __________________

03-03-2005, 06:32 AM	#27
chodadog Confirmed User Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 9,736	Is it obscene? In my personal opinion, yes. However, i don't think obscenity should be illegal. People should have the right to be as obscene as they please so long as they're not hurting anyone but themselves and other adults who agree to participate. __________________ 26 + 6 = 1

03-03-2005, 07:23 AM	#39
vicki Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Deep in the heart o' Texas Posts: 1,478	This is a very touchy subject for anyone in the US, especially those of us in this industry. Although personally I find it objectionable, would I step beyond the line and say its a no-no?? eek .. our constitution is based on freedom of speech and expression - so I'd have to back off on it. Do I think the individuals in charge of shooting the content and offering it for sale should SELF censor .. you bet your arse I do, if for no other reason than to consider how their actions might affect the rest of the industry. simple summation to the exact question of the thread: do I consider their material obscene - yes would I sell it - no would I film it - no would I watch it - no, unfortunately I've lived the real thing - i'll pass on watching men get their jollies from such degradation. do I think it should be considered illegal - NO! Colin, you ask such a heated question but don't give your own viewpoints on it ... cmon .. spill your opinions like you ask us to lol __________________ If at first you do succeed - try to hide your astonishment. HR merchant accounts from 3.45% solid biz since 98 victoriakozub AT gmail.com skype: victoria.kozub \| ICQ: 74296746

03-03-2005, 07:47 AM	#41
Tom_PM Porn Meister Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 16,443	I think this is a case where they're going to learn you can't say something that nobody see's out in the open as "obscene". What I mean is, in the days where obscenity laws were passed, VCR's and direct to home sales of porn didnt exist. The fact that the ONLY people who will be FORCED to view the material will be 12 Jurors is a useless way to try to prosecute based on obscenity. If I go to their website and CHOOSE to purchase any video, have it shipped to my home and watch it with a big tub of popcorn, I obviously don't think it's obscene! I think it's something I wanted to watch. "You" the people are entirely unaffected by my choice of viewing material. You have no say whether or not I should enjoy it or not. I'm not in your house forcing you to stop watching The Bachelorette because it erodes society, or burning your Harlequinn Romance novels because they offend me with their shallow drivel. I think they're barking up the entirely wrong tree on this one, and I'm fine with that. __________________ 43-922-863 Shut up and play your guitar.

03-03-2005, 07:53 AM	#42
Tom_PM Porn Meister Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 16,443	BTW: To actually answer the thread question (doh), I wouldnt know if I would call their material "obscene", as I've never choosen to view it. It's sort of moot I think.. I'm pretty sure that the only way to answer that is if I went to a movie theater advertising "entertainment generally acceptable to the public" and I disagreed. Then I have a case I think.. __________________ 43-922-863 Shut up and play your guitar.

03-03-2005, 05:26 AM	#1
ADL Colin Too lazy to set a custom title Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Tube Titans, USA Posts: 11,929	Extreme Associates. Do YOU consider their material obscene? Much talk of Gonzales and the Extreme Associates case being challenged. Fuck the government. What do YOU think of simulated gang rapes, beatings and violent attacks on women? Would you sell it? Would you film it? Would you watch it? Do you think they should have a legal right to produce this material? __________________ Adult Date Link - $50 PPS starting NOW! -- good and JUICY! skype = "adultdatelink"

03-03-2005, 05:28 AM	#2
.:St Ides:. Confirmed User Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 4,857	This is a touchy subject, I think we work in an industry where we have to stick by freedom of speech and expression. If the model was fully aware of what she was getting into, what the scene would consist of, and had no problem doing it then there is nothing wrong with it. We can't pick and choose. If the model is consenting and legal age it's fair game. This falls under the if you don't like it or approve then look away area for most.

03-03-2005, 05:34 AM	#4
Voodoo ♥ ♦ ♣ ♠ Industry Role: Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 10,592	EA is going to either set an example, or they will be made one. If they set an example, I can only pray for our industry, as it will only get worse. I do not agree with their content what-so-ever, but think they should have the right to produce it, under Freedom of Speech. However, there really needs to be some sort of limitations put on content production, such as a 3rd party rating system, that warns people clearly what is contained within the contents. Mainstream movies have it, why doesn't porn?

03-03-2005, 05:39 AM	#7
Dugmor The Traffic Cowboy Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: BP4L - Vice Prez Posts: 7,596	I think it is fine as long as the models are consenting !

03-03-2005, 05:50 AM	#13
fl_prn_str Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Tampa, FL Posts: 5,736	I feel as long as the model wasnt cohersed or intoxicated.....wtf.....

03-03-2005, 06:34 AM	#28
.:St Ides:. Confirmed User Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 4,857	What if your kid turns 18 and gets very into horror movies the blood the death the murder the mutilation and starts collecting dvd's and etc. Should this be right? Same thing, but it has sex involved. Since we can see a cock going into a pussy this makes it wrong, but a movie that has rape in it is ok?

03-03-2005, 07:00 AM	#36
.:St Ides:. Confirmed User Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 4,857	Limiting and policeing these things goes against many freedoms, freedom of speech, choice and expression. If these things were limited and were censored and banned, then something else would become the whipping boy, and then the government could start picking things off one at a time. If the worst out there is not the worst anymore something would need to take it's place, I think that would make it hard to do business in the future as well.

03-03-2005, 07:16 AM	#38
Gunni Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Barcelona Posts: 2,385	anything bwtween two (or more) consenting adults is ok. If you want to draw lines, do it in your own damn book not mine (cause then you would be damaging my property and violating my rights ;) ) Do you find scat disgusting? I know I do, but why the fuck would I care if other people like it? If I found scat, satanic bibles etc. in my kids possession, I would be upset sure, but I wouldn't beat them... That would just create resentment, and obvisoulsy alienate an already alianated and rebelious kid even more... Interestingly enough, simulated rape sites apear to be quite popular with women, I will try to find a poll made by some big company like Durex or something, but there in the "Role Playing" category, rape was the most popular fantasy with women... It doesn't say these women actually would like to get raped, just they might like to be "willingly" raped by someone they fancy

03-03-2005, 07:25 AM	#40
Voodoo ♥ ♦ ♣ ♠ Industry Role: Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 10,592	Juiiiicy!

03-03-2005, 08:03 AM	#43
Cassie Confirmed User Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: NJ Posts: 3,139	although i would never watch nor buy their videos, a person does have the right to decide what it is they will watch and purchase. i would not sit in judgment of a person's right to choose, freedom of expression or freedom of speech. it's not as it people are not aware of what type of videos this company produces - hello "extreme" associates! __________________ ICQ: 309756847 ]

03-03-2005, 08:41 AM	#45
TheSaint Confirmed User Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Everywhere at once Posts: 991	I have never seen the videos. I may sound old fashioned on this, but while I don't think there is anything illegal in the movies, I would not promote them. There is lots of legal stuff I will not touch, for example rough sex videos which I think are just wrong and encourage the kids seeing them to think that it would be good to spit in a woman's face while having sex with her, my Anybody ever see 60's and 70's porn? The action is the same - bj, fuck, and anal - only the woman is having a good time. In my opinion a lot of the shit made today like ass to mouth is over the line, should not be made, but I guess as long as there is a buck to be made it will get created. __________________ I have no signature

03-03-2005, 08:55 AM	#46
AsianDivaGirlsWebDude Purveyor, Fine Asian Porn Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: San Francisco Bay Area Posts: 38,323	One Person's View I feel many self-proclaimed First Amendment freedom fighters in the adult industry are totally misguided and hide behind the guise of freedom, when in fact, some of what they are presenting is totally reprehensible, and represents indefensible forms of human behavior. As far as I am concerned, there is nothing artistic, and there are few (if any) freedom of speech issues involved in such things as conning "bums" into maiming or possibly even beating other poor people to death, simply because they signed a consent form and they are paid to do it. Yet BumFights and other such web sites still exist. I have not seen the EA content, so I am not specifically commenting upon it, however if it is as it has been described on Nightline recently, I might possibly find some of their content objectionable on similar grounds. There is a difference between simulated and actual behavior. Hollywood, the gaming industry, and others seem to understand this and self-regulate themselves accordingly in most instances, even with regards to simulated behavior. Fortunately, so do most of the people I have encountered in the adult industry. Even the savage sport of boxing abides by certain rules. The same cannot be said for some of the most extreme content packaged and sold to miscreants these days by a fringe element within the adult industry (who profess to speak for us all). At times it seems that the loudest most ardent voices often come from these same people. Of course they, and certainly not most of us, have the most to lose. I ask, why appeal to the most evil instincts of people, and feed depravity and negativity that robs others of even a shread of humanity or self-worth? It appears to be more about making a buck than standing up for any noble principles. I try to be tolerant, but I find myself questioning why the actual beating of women (or men), or treating of people in what would otherwise be considered inhumane or criminal ways should be tolerated within the adult industry irregardless of consent forms and cash. I do not feel you are being a champion of the adult industry when you embark on these ventures. Face it, some in the adult industry are losers and sick people who don't care how much they debase others, and they appear unwilling to take any responsibility or accountabilty for the pain and suffering which they bring upon others, both directly and indirectly no matter how noble they try to make themselves appear. Believe me, I feel similar ways about the government. I regret, speak out, and take action, against the government in the name of the many foreign people whom have been killed wrongly in the name of freedom, and the many American lives that have been sacrificed in vain merely to profit the ruling elite. A problem I see is that which the worst offenders within the adult industry are doing is not making anything better, and may possibly contribute to making matters worse for the vast majority of us. As others have stated, it's very hard for anyone in the adult industry to speak out against such issues without appearing hypocritical. Especially when more conservative elements in this society, and many other societies, consider even the most softcore content that many of us produce to be equally as evil. Still, I am more inclined to trust in the majority as I seek to express my own views and expand the boundaries to that which I feel is acceptable. It pains me to speak out against some of the acitivities of other producers in the industry. I certainly don't appreciate the ridicule that my being willing to speak out about my feelings on these issues brings forth against me. On many issues, I can say that I am in agreement with them. In some, I must refuse to go along. Sometimes you have to take a stand against bullies - be they within the government or even within the adult industry (basically extremists on either end). For example, I must say that torturing prisoners is wrong, and I believe I must speak out against racism, and I feel that I have to say no to blatantly misogynistic/degrading acts in the adult industry. Otherwise the bullies win. The people that want to promote and profit from the worst in the adult industry have honed and are experts at making their case that anything goes - it stands to reason since their business survival depends upon it. Although often out of little more than selfish self-interest, these same people frequently pose as the greatest enemy of those viewed in possibly an even worse light than themselves - such as people involved in child porn or beastiality. How hypocritical is that? I would say much more than mine. I refuse to buy into that. I think acceptable lines can be drawn which permit 95%+, or as much as 99% of us, to create responsible erotica. This is a complex issue, yet in some ways it is simple. Start with the basic principle of doing unto others as you would have them do unto you. Sure, the most despicable creatures in society have no moral boundaries. However, that doesn't mean anyone should join them if it goes against their better sense. If anything, they are the ones you should speak out against most. Settng a mimimum bar for society is the responsibility even for those of us within the adult industry. I'm sure this debate will be waged on so long as there are people willing to put profits before people, and many people on the other side remain silent when confronted by such people. We all have a voice. Democracy is acheived only when people educate themselves, look within themselves, and then speak out and take action on important issues. A good approach might be to begin by speaking out and promoting the middle ground first. Then, once there is consensus among a strong majority, work at pushing the boundaries out in both directions to include as many people as possible. That is a basic principle of most modern enlightened societies. The biggest problems are caused by fringe elements on either side. I don't have all of the answers. I simply refuse to be silenced by bullies that represent what I consider to be the worst about the adult industry. Thank you for hearing out my rather long rant. ADG Webmaster __________________ Asian Diva Girls - Exclusive Photos and Videos Asian Diva Girls Affiliate Program (50% ccBill Revshare)

03-03-2005, 08:59 AM	#47
arg Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 1,164	Here's the definition of obscenity for US legal purposes: "For something to be 'obscene' it must be shown that the average person, applying contemporary community standards and viewing the material as a whole, would find (1) that the work appeals predominantly to "prurient" interest; (2) that it depicts or describes sexual conduct in a patently offensive way; and (3) that it lacks serious literary, artistic, political or scientific value." There's no absolute answer as to whether something is obscene, material is deemed obscene only if a jury unanimously agrees that it's obscene, and different juries will rule differently about the same exact material. I haven't seen much of Extreme's material, but from what I have seen, personally I'd find it non-obscene, failing part (2) of the above test.

03-03-2005, 09:11 AM	#49
SykkBoy Jesus loves bacon Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Sin City, Motherfucker Posts: 19,969	I'm thinking about emailing a link to this thread to my aunt...she wants ALL OF US thrown in jail for what we do....wouldn't it be fun if she got to decide what we can and can't do in this industry? My grandmother was the same way...imagine she was in charge of where the boundaries are? __________________ Support my new movie “The Second Coming”