Hmmmmm I whonder why I assume this after all your guys posts about this topic in the past.

I didn't jump on you, to be honest, NATS is #1 in my book, when I decide to go for cascading. I just didn't like the "your fucking program" sentence about MPA. :glugglug

LOL, I post about much much more than that.

Again, when people directly ask me the differences between products I am going to tell them. I havne't made things up about you, I never would.

I don't go posting it out of the blue, I do when my product and your product are brought up. I don't attack you. I have not even mentioned you or your product in this thread, OTHERS have. Yet you feel the need to come after me about it.

Gotcha, that was me just being a bit emotional about him constantly accusing me of "attacking" him when I have done nothing of the sort. If linux says Windows crashes all the time when asked about Windows, they're not attacking them.

:glugglug

I still like your program btw :) When you're ready to make the move let me know, we'll work with you to make it very easy to make the move both technically and financially.

I love everyone.

:Graucho

:1orglaugh I owe you a drink :)

thx :) the most important part is epochEU :glugglug

Thanks for considering our comments and the best part is the general interest in the power of affiliate marketing. The affiliate marketing and advertising sector continues to grow and that is good news for all of us :thumbsup

No problem, shoot me an icq when you have a few, 5596373

"False Advertising

Any advertising which is misleading in any material respect is considered to be false advertising. An advertisement is considered misleading if it fails to disclose facts which are important in light of what is stated in the advertisement, or facts which are relevant in the light of the customary use of the product.

The Federal Trademark Law gives consumers similar protections against false labeling, although it was mainly intended to protect businesses against unfair competition. By its terms, the law permits any person who believes he is or is likely to be damaged to bring a lawsuit against any false designation of the origin, false description or fake representation of goods or services in interstate commerce.

Deceptive Business Practices"

Bla bla bla... And then there is some more bla bla bla and bla...

Some word of advice; keep the game fair and you will play for a long time.

:2 cents:

of course you can just put untracked bleeder links on the tour and you can shave all you want

see

tawnyroberts

which uses nats

currently one of the links to her video store doesn't include an affiliate id

just make some of your links to the join without an affiliate passthru and you are shaving hits whenever a person clicks on that link

The last thing in the world we need from you or your company is advice.

While you have the dictionary out.. look up fraud, theft, and accessory.

You just won't quit will you.

Not paying out on video sales is not _shaving_.


Shaving is the stealing of signups unknown to the affiliate.

No where does Atlas claim they pay out on video sales as far as I know and it is in plain view to anyone and everyone that they don't.

If they put a link on their site to Sports Illustrated subcriptions or who knows what it doesn't mean they need to pay you on it, that depends on how they run their program. If you don't like how they run their program you don't have to use it.

It's when it's done blindly and decivingly that it is shaving.

Lee may be annoying, but he does have a point with this thread. Many webmasters are idiots when it comes to technology, and they don't understand that shaving can also be done outside of the tracking script. They need to know the truth :2 cents:

Again, of course. I've never made a claim otherwise. The only claims we've made is that NATS has no shave feature, that we have made it as hard as we know how to avoid and will continue to improve up on what we've already done, and should we ever find someone screwing with the numbers there will be consequences to face.

I never imagined in my life we'd be met with so much definace for trying to bring a little bit of integrity to the business.

Lee is annoying, he choose to single us out, most likely for the attention. He's on my shitlist and he'll stay there. There is a way to bring up a point and a way not to. He did it the childish way. I never shy away from a discussion about things. I'll debate the shaving thing and how to best prevent/avoid it all day long. Usually only good will come out of it. But when he starts a thread making false claims (i.e. he uses NATS) and looking to single us out, I have a problem with it.

As far as the modifying of things, you can do exactly the same thing with a CCBill only program (as serveral people have stated in this thread). People for years have said "you're safe with us since we use ccbill for our affiliate program". No one ever jumped on them for it.

NATS is a very powerful, very flexible software that is growing and taking hold at an unbelievable rate. It is doing so for the most part because it is the best option out there for an affiliate program looking for a turnkey package and it has a real company behind it that offers real service and support. You can ALWAYS reach us by phone during business hours. That may sound silly but it's a rarity in the adult business.

NATS taking hold so quickly has some people in the business scared. With that comes hate and drama threads like we have here.

Lee MAY be annoying??

now THAT is funny!!


He is annoying as all fuck and does nothing but attract drama and then fuck off


u fucking suck lee - cock n all lol

i think people are just scared of nats, what other company has taken over a sector of the adult internet market as quickly as nats has.

Thanks. We really are good guys tho. (Probably the #1 reason we've grown so quickly).

We offer a quality product, great service, reasonable pricing, and we deliver what we promise. Sounds so basic, but it's always so rare.

:thumbsup

did you read my post at all

I specifically said "just make some of your links to the join without an affiliate passthru and you are shaving hits whenever a person clicks on that link "

The fact that tawnyroberts has a leaching link proves it can be done.

This thread gave me a laugh. PBucksJohn you handle yourself really well, much better than I could in the face of such blatant bullshit, kudos

Been following this thread and I will say besides you loosing it once, you seem to be very professional. It is tough being an affiliate knowing that sponsors may shave. Most of the time, the affiliate never knows if it was the scripting or actual abuse from their sponsor and just move on.

Seems like your program is trying to be honest and I admire this.
:)

hehe i've always preached this too, but does anyone listen no?

it would take about 2 minutes of work to implement shaving...

ppl just don't get it.

As an outsider to this bit (we don't run sites at all, or an affiliate program currently)..

I *was* under the distinct impression that NATS was the one program that shaving was somehow impossible on.

Not that it was exactly false advertising or anything like that, but talking to anyone who was a nats user you would think that it was written by the NSA.

Don't get me wrong NATS guys, I still think it's hella good marketing :)

(but boy, everybody sure is angry tonight!!)

why do you want to know? are you into ball licking or something?

Exactly....come visit the AdultLounge.com offices one day and see who your doing business with!

i like the way there is ppl talking about two different things, shaving software and shaving themself.

People could also buy a car, step out of it and bash their heads in on the fender. Is it Chrysler's responsibility to warn people of that hazard?

Anyone who doesn't understand that a company can avoid paying you on exit sales or links that don't track needs to be run out of the business. How is Nats supposed to control that? They offer a referral proggie with no built-in shave function. If they catch someone cheating they take away the software and sue them. What do you want them to do? Insist on control over every piece of HTML on their customer's sites? Hire a hitman to kill cheaters? What the fuck...

Funny how much shit they're getting for building a product about issues they have absolutely no control over.

As far as I can see, the whole beef here is that someone COULD, potentially, if they're unethical enough, fuck someone out of their traffic. SOMEHOW Nats hasn't figured out how to stop a webmaster from taking down their index page and putting up a banner farm. Duh. I would never have known something like that could ever happen if it hadn't been pointed to me in this thread.

150 homo shavers

Which was a point you didnt have to make because nowhere in this thread was it mentioned that you DO have a shave feature.

Again, i dont see anywhere in this thread where you have been met with defiance, i think everyone agrees there is no shave feature built into NATs but you yourself have even agreed it is still possible for an affiliate program to shave using your application.

Of course because the fact that your application is the latest fad in the industry has nothing to do with it. I used one of the more popular programs to illustrate my point, if this thread had been started 3 months ago, i would have used MPA3 in the thread title.

The difference is, everyone seems to be under the impression you CANT be shaved by an affiliate program using NATs.. As you yourself have agreed in this very thread, that isnt the case.

So you are pissed that i said we were using NATs? Where did i say that? I made a 'comment' i never said we actually did use NATs.

Thats the problem with many people on GFY, they focus on the stuff that really doesnt matter and bring their emotions into the discussion when there shouldnt be any emotion involved at all. This is business, end of story.

Perhaps because most webmasters arent under the impression it is IMPOSSIBLE to shave with CCBill, as they seem to be with NATs, hell ive seen several threads in the last 2 months where affiliate programs were recommonded because they are 'incapable of shaving' because 'they use NATs'.

Agreed.. phone support is a rare thing.. shaving however.. is not.

I see no drama.

I see facts being agreed upon and nothing more.

I have nothing to gain from letting webmasters know they can in fact be shaved by an affiliate program that uses NATs.

Regards,

Lee

I am going to reply to a few of the shaving things mentioned here in a few hours, I just got up, but dude, seriously. ITS IN THE TITLE OF THIS THREAD!

Basic knowledge of the English language would say that the thread title was 'suggestive', not fact.

Regards,

Lee

Actually, the suggestive part of the header is "I Could Shave You" the "Even Though We are using NATS" is not suggestive in any part.

You can twist it all you want, anyone reading the title immediately would think you are using nats.

So you are in agreement that the thread title and how you interpreted it is what has you guys on the defensive?

Interesting.

Regards,

Lee

Uhm, do not put words in my mouth. This is the first time I even posted in this thread and that is all I had to say regarding your constant bla bla bla.

I will post in a few hours again regarding the shaving stuff mentioned here, once I am fully awake and can focus on it.

Well just so we're clear on the facts and merits of this thread.. that was actually the second time you posted but lets not split hairs over it.

As you say you arent fully awake yet so not remembering what you posted 2 minutes ago is understandable.

Looking forward to seeing your response to the other facts aout how affiliate programs can still shave their webmasters evn when using the NATs technology once you have gathered your thoughts :)

Regards,

Lee

This thread is ridiculous, no one is even arguing the same thing.

For once I agree with Lee, and understand the point he's making...

Even though NATS has not claimed that it is impossible to shave with their product, the general opinion of the average webmaster is that NATS = no shave. I have no idea who originated this opinion, but I have heard through word-of-mouth, and even read posts such as "xxxxx is using NATS (so no shaving)", and I am constantly amused by it...

I believe the point of the thread is, an affiliate should not promote a program using NATS just because they believe they will not be shaved because of the affiliate software, and nor should a program feel they have to switch to NATS to gain affiliate trust. Unfortunately these ideas have appeared within the last few months, although through no fault of the NATS team.

Agreed it seems that a lot of people have let their emotions get in the way of facts of this thread.

Yet a lot of the people replying in this thread dont.. go figure... you would almost think they have something to gain by allowing webmasters to continue thinking it is impossible to shave when an affiliate program uses NATs.

Agreed.

At least i know there is one person who understands what i was saying :)

Regards,

Lee