So you are saying that even though John has openly admitted it IS possible for an affiliate program to shave if they use NATS.. they cant shave?

Tell me how you came to that conclusion please :1orglaugh

I have said the same thing throughout this thread.. that it is possible to shave when using NATs affiliate system, John agrees.

Regards,

Lee

no I'm saying you're a repetitive moron.

Regards,

Bernie

Can you shave WITH nats? No. That's what we've said. That NATS has no shave feature.

Can you fuck with the #s outside of NATS. Yes, you can not send checks, edit the database (noticable by resellers and triggers flags in NATS< etc.), etc. These things are not "shaving" per say.

Stop half and mis quoting me. I'm starting to think you're really a nobody with nothing better to do. I've seen a bunch of people come in here and call you a tool and not one person claim you're a stand up guy.

The horse is dead. This will be my last reply to you.

Lee,

Why would you start a thread like this and burn bridges with someone you don't even know?
Just for record, when I spoke to John about installing NATS - he made it very clear if someone were to install a Shave feature, he would sue them, then go after personal assetts.
When he spoke about it, he had this look in his eye, it was almost evil - like, this is one dude I don't want to fuck with :)

Think about it, a guy that is dedicated to the long term by selling a recurring solution, wants his software to be around for a long time... dont start threads and burn bridges with not only one of the smartest guys in the biz, but also one of the nicest ones as well...

Thats what i said originally, an affiliate program CAN SHAVE even if they USE NATs.

I didnt say that they could shave WITH NATs. We are both agreed on that and it would seem, we are both agreed that affiliate programs, if they wanted to, even though they were using the NATs affiliate program, could shave their webmasters.

I havent misquoted you anywhere in this thread, we are both in agreement that NATs has no shave feature but it is still possible for an affiliate program to shave.. even if they do use NATs.

You also said that on page one. For the record but, lets stick to the issue at hand, that it IS POSSIBLE for an affiliate program using the NATs system to shave their affiliates.

This isnt only true for NATs it is true for any affiliate system.

Regards,

Lee

Again, i know he has made it clear however, it is possible to shave WITHOUT installing or modifying anything in the NATs program. John agrees with me.

Regards,

Lee

Shall we call it 'creative accounting' then if that makes it any easier for people to understand?

Regards,

Lee

Lee,

I just have one question for you..

WHY would you start this thread? Why would you take someone's good work, talk about it with a negative connotation, for no reason whatsoever...

:helpme

Wow- good post. Competing sponsor programs, using proprietary software, have been courteous in response to the Nats-client-driven FALSE ADVERTISING. Many program owners have known all along that a little mod_rewrite for example on the inbound traffic sorting and whalla- shaving. So for months we watched the false advertising desperation of nats clients. It is refreshing to see that the less familiar webmasters are exposed to the simple reality.

I don't support Lee, but it is time for Nats to correct the false advertising that they prospered off of and focus on the benefits of their program- or at least admonish the multiple programs that falsely claimed no-shave like beating a dead horse for so long while intelligent program owners sat back and watched. Time for some professional courtesy and official press release clarifying the previous lies.

and btw- supplying affiliate software to a lot of companies is a big job with a lot of grief at times. nats provides a needed service for many that we found in the past to be not worth our efforts. we would rather focus on our own programs than cater to others virtual programs. so, i wish nats success in their field is my point.

Where is the false advertising? Nats is built without a shave feature and as far as I can see that's 100% correct. You're saying NATS should 'admonish' their clients for advertising that they use NATS?? LOL!

Nats is a real program. It isn't a shady scheme to sue rival webmasters for any small thing while you claim gangstahood or a huge bulkmail operation that they have to worry about getting sued by AOL over. John and Fabian actually provide a concrete service and make their money the right way, without fucking over webmasters and surfers alike like some programs do.

you must have missed the months and months of webmasters flying sig's claiming - screw every other program- use us because of....

Because of what? Because you'll sue the fuck out of them once you get your patents? Because you'll pay them less thru xpays than if they just sign up to the program themselves?

What are you doing for anybody? What service do you provide?

whatever you say pal.

wow this is interesting...dont trust those yurop peepole

the nats and mpa2 drama is better then watching jerry springer

I'm not inclined to aggravate my ulcers pissing on the boards, I have enough entertainment in my life and we have a mutual friend in d-money, but you have more skeletons in your closet than any other webmaster I can think of off the top of my head. You don't need to be here yanking John's chain for sig views.

still bitter i told your partners about the $10k you STOLE from them when we bought sexpays.com from you?

playing the d$ card? LOL

"sooooooo angry - damn that rap music"

whatever you say buddy
:winkwink:

You didn't buy it, you sued for it and THEN you bought it. What are you planning to do with your patents G? Who's going to be your first victim? Me?

I don't give a fuck if you listen to rap, that's all I listen to myself. I don't wear the chains and bling out though, as I realize that I'm a white guy.

What are you doing for money now that AOL shut your mailing down?

we have no mail - c & d your false accusations. we get spoofed plenty though since we have a lot of domains. btw- we were and are whitelisted at AOL and we settled with Microsoft months ago after protecting our db for 17 months at great expense. have a nice day :thumbsup

our first patent enforcements will be public knowledge in early '05 and we are not pissing in our sandbox as you are in this thread, ya boardstalker :winkwink:

So let us view just the facts here.

NATS says that shaving is not build into the program. Other affiliate software does have it built in.

NATS programmers have built the database in such a way that shaving is much more difficult. I wouldn't be surprised if it has checks in it to make sure the numbers are not changed, if they are, you lose your license?

NATS says that if you are caught shaving around NATS system then you will lose your license (possibly also exposed here?).

Lee is an attention whore.

You missed the most important fact of all..

IT IS STILL POSSIBLE FOR A SPONSOR TO SHAVE IF THEY USE NATS

Regards,

Lee

and several program owners congratulating Nats for a) terminating anyone they catch shaving, b) finally correcting the false impression their clients created with all the false claims they used to compete unfairly.

Very refreshing that webmasters understand that programs using nats can shave and also that Nats appears 100% against it. A lot of new affiliate software packages are popping up and there is still nothing better than proprietary source code that one can update as needed on their own.

you are a fucktard:1orglaugh The guy never said it was "impossible". He said there is no "built in" shave feature. Would you like me to buy "Hooked on Phonics" for you. You obviously have a reading comprehension problem or are you look for attention? Did your mommy not hug you when you are little or did she hug you to much?:1orglaugh :321GFY

I never said there was a built in shave feature either.

Please point to any section of this 3 page thread where i said that.

The guy was arguing the same point that i was.. he let his emotions get in the way of fact because he though i was hammering on NATs which i wasnt.

Perhaps you better had buy a copy of hooked on phonics and use it yourself.

Regards,

Lee

++He said there is no "built in" shave feature. ++

I was talking about PBucks saying that not you. Try to comprehend. So, so so sad. I congratulate you:thumbsup

No it's about software options actually.

LOL

Did you even read what i said? I agreed that NATs had no shave feature built in however, it would seem a lot of the posters in this thread seem to be under the impression that IS what i said LOL

Regards,

Lee

A very well thought out post Evan...

The problem is, a lot of webmasters, until this thread was started didnt realise that was the case and that NATs although it is a great product, offers no more protection aganst shaving than a chocolate bar :2 cents:

Regards,

Lee

Now I planned to stay out of this thread But when someone is making false accusations AGAIN, I just had to add my comments to at least that part of the thread that concerned us.
I guess your "other affiliate sofware does have it built in" was ment for us.
MPA3 does not in any shape or form have any built in shaving options built in to it !
You guys have to start finding a new way of getting free advertisement now!

First there was click thru calvin, now there are nats and mpa.. In a couple of years there will be other third party solutions for those that cannot afford or have not got the time to program a custom solution.

Last year there was swoit this year there is dollars.com next year there will be ?? Anybody see a pattern.

Garry you need to learn that I, nor V_Rocks mentioned your fucking program.

You are not the only other software out there. Why is it when someone says "software that shaves" you assume they're talking about you.

MPA3 has no shave feature either. You guys took a good step in doing that. I have never said it has one.

attention whore

Also a general reply but mostly to Holio & Evan...

Some of our client's may be over pushing the fact that we do not have a shave feature. I understand your point there. We'll be discussing this Monday and deciding if we need to put some limits on anyone after reviewing their sites/claims.



No shave feature aside, NATS is the most configurable and stable affiliate software available. That is the main reason why it has taken off like it has. It is a solid, well supported product from a real company who take what they do seriously. Just ask any of our clients.

.htaccess

please, John...this is not the good way to promote your program

Did you read my post? Garry is the one who came in here getting pissy and starting it up again. We did not mention his program. We do not attack him. This is something he has invented in his head.

Yes, I did, but in the last weeks, both NATS and also MPA attacked the other company. I think it would be the best if each company would talk about their positives and features, not about negatives of "the other" program.

Which is what I have done in this thread. Search the thread, I did not mention MPA or Mansion at all once. Yet you still feel the need to jump on me.

However marketing is about showing why your product is better. That involves showing the downfalls of competitors. When asked why we are better we will always state things of that nature. It's simple business and totally acceptable.

We do not make personal attacks against anyone and we do not make false claims. We never have. I think Oystien is a great guy for instance. That doesn't mean that if I find a problem with a product of his I won't point it out to people looking at both my product and his.