shunga

I was hoping http://www.awg.org would be free, but it seems someone beat us to it. The first test might be to find a good domain name.

I suggest this framework for AWG. Membership for the first year would be free. AWG would exist on donations, of a domain name, hosting, legal work, artwork and CGI scripts. There wouldn't be enough money to pay for those at startup, anyway. A membership fee could then be charged from the second year, or it could continue as free, with links to the donators. We wouldn't know how feasible that was until we started out with it.

We should keep the regulations simple. I suggest having five rules, each of which includes related "bad practise". Making changes to the surfers browser without their permission could be one rule, for example, and that would include auto-bookmarking, auto homepage setting, disabling the back button, etc.

AWG would provide a button which members could place on their sites. Members wouldn't have to place the button on every site they owned, and therefore they could run surfer friendly sites, and CJ's, without losing their membership. The AWG button would indicate better practise on a site on which it was displayed.

When the button was clicked it would send the domain name back to AWG, with the number of the member. If the number wasn't valid, or the domain wasn't registered with AWG, action could be taken. The surfer would also be able to view the AWG rules, and make a complaint if they thought that site was breaking the rules.

I think the voting issue would be best resolved if we elected a "council of webmasters", perhaps with a president to oversee the organisation. I'm not sure how SAG works, but it's a model we might follow.

Let's make it happen.

Amputate Your Head

About this "button" thing... who is going to work this out with the thousands of TGPs out there already limiting stuff on submitted pages? One person might say, "Well.... I know what that's for" and all will be groovy, but the next guy might simply see it as another sponsor ad that is putting you over your banner-to-pic ratio for that gallery and decline your listing. Or do we not put this on TGP gallerys? And if we don't put this on TGP gallerys, does that not defeat the purpose of showing the surfers that this site/gallery is compliant with the yet-to-be created rules? Leading us inevitably back to "How do we distinguish" between members of this thing and non-members? And what about leaking traffic? Will this thing be linked to a site? Or simply for display?

Just some more stuff to chew on guys.....

Rivux

I dont think putting a awg button on a tgp gallery is going to work, becaue by the time the surfer sees that button, they will have either been put thru popup hell, had their homepage changed or had bookmarks set. So its not practical.

It only needs to be put on opening pages, of avs, free sites, pay sites and tgps. It needs to be put at the spot were the surfer has a choice to continue or stop.

I am going to bring this up again because I really think its important, but AWG needs to be thought of more as a moderator and better business bureau then a rules commitee. We dont care how many thumbs a tgp gallery has on it, that is for the tgp site to deal with. That is not the purpose of the awg, so nothing like how many reciepts or how many pics a gallery has, its not our business.

It needs to be thought of as more broad moral institution, rather then a detail oriented rules organiztion

Amputate Your Head

Some more stuff popped into my head while I was makin' a pizza here, and if I've already asked some of these things, I apologize... my memory is no that good anymore.

If this is to be widely accepted and recognized, (dare we think, The Standard?) would this then not fully qualify a webmaster for automatic inclusion in a gallery listing on participating TGP owners sites?

If the answer is NO: Why not? Does not being a member already constitute a sort of pre-screening and verify that webmasters acceptance of The Rules? Providing that the TGP in question allocates space to that particular niche, I don't see why anyone carrying a full blown membership to this thing should be denied listing on a daily basis.

If the answer is YES: What about arranging something with the various TGP scripters out there to write up some code to check for this button the same way they check for recips? Easily enough done, I would think. Hence, FORCING webmasters that wanna play the game, to play fair.

(a little more fuel on the fire)

shunga

The button would be clearly marked "Adult Webmasters Guild", and it would link back to the AWG site, which would have the rules listed, and a form for surfers to submit if they think that site is breaking the rules. Read my last post for more ideas. AWG membership wouldn't guarantee a TGP or link list placement. They have their own rules, and their own likes and dislikes in general. I'd like to see TGP owners recognise the button, and accept is without penalising the submitter, after all, it's a sign that the submitter is more likely to follow basic rules. That in itself should make it easier to be listed.

Gemini

Good point Amp... several tgp owners mentioned it last night and said they would prefer to move over to accepting 'AWG' (for lack of another acronym) member submissions only. I'm sure they would accept the member button as well.... and while the surfer may have been duped into a non member page, if the button is there then they can more easily report the offending member for selective beheadment at the hun's leisure since he has the largest axe.

This isn't to be some huge rules committee at all. It should Enforce existing rules from the sponsors... after all they are just about carbon copies of one another. Such things as NO non adult freehosts, spamming etc etc...

Then we get to what needs added in with locking buttons, popup craziness.. limit that to one popup with NO followups, even delayed... activeX, or auto anything is out...

And another tidbit we need to include are such things as these auto-submitter programs... If a guy selling such things wants to join, then he obeys the rules. This means when the hun or any other tgp owner requests to be removed from their lists, they WILL comply, not next chance they get but immediately. I recently had the comment put to me in a thread, that the script writer had added the hun but did not have it auto selected. Gee, so if I set out our dog on the porch with no chain, am I not still responsible with whatever happens from my own lack of responsibility?

Not that it would be a rule or anything but the program sites that become members should be given EVERY chance to be your first source of scripts etc you need. Keeping it in the family. I'm sure most would cut discounts knowing they have a secure customer base that will not be mis-using such things they make.

But we do need to settle on some sort of name as one of the first orders of business. A place to conduct the business is being looked after etc.

Seperate forums would enhance this for putting names up for reviews, the basic sponsor rules area (just a rehash of the existing, any sponsors joining will not be making new ones except that they use members only etc) Another for the basics that we want to adhere to. That sort of thing. Lens is going to start charging us rent before long here. lol

And perhaps we can get some sort of dbase set up to be able to view the webmasters going for this as well as contact info etc. If we can put it behind a secure area to prevent email grabbing etc.

As far as a whole year free on dues? Get real. The donations would never cover the costs of a good PR firm etc. We could maybe get a server and things like that. But here we are back to crying over a few bucks. I'd sooner think, keep it free until Jan 1, 02 and then we should be in some sort of order to carry on with the PR. Any webmaster that expects the sponsors to shell out tons of cash versus the total membership putting up a small yearly fee such as 10 or even 20 bucks...

I have been in loose contact with some sponsors, has anyone else spoken to any yet? We're on a roll so lets get the momentum with us and talk to others. Hopefully we will have some more news soon.

Amputate Your Head

Perhaps Lens might grab the bull by the horns ( or the nuts... whichever you prefer Lens ) and whip up a new forum here at GFY for this? Just a suggestion.

shunga

A good PR firm? How many do you know that have extensive knowledge of the online adult business? I really wouldn't want this to become overrun by suits. We're spending money by the truckload and we haven't even started. That's the point I'm trying to make about money. Let's get the framework in place first, then decide where to move on from there, otherwise we'll never get started.

I think RedShoe came up with the name. Adult Webmasters Guild. I don't think anyone can come up with anything better than that.

Amputate Your Head

What about: "AdultSites Sensibilities System"
(A.S.S.) j/k

Now let's talk about my salary...

Gemini

AWG is ok by us (in my house). And we don't have to go the initials to make the site.

And thinking of PR people is the end result so it needs to always be in the forefront of our thinking. Or else this would end up in a back alley with no one knowing or caring if some group existed. We can't gain surfers trust without a suit or skirt to get in front of a camera.

As far as PR specialists in the net? Plenty of them out there and they are specialists in their given field no matter if they know alot about the net or not. I have dealt with PR people in other work and believe me, they know what they need to ask the group in order to face the cameras and take care of business. THAT is their JOB.

We're trying to improve our standing in the business world. And a large part of that needs to be dealt straight to the public with a educated specialist in working in that field. Using someone FROM this field is a joke for the most part. The press would slant it that that particular sponsor, webmaster etc was trying to gain members or whatever.

I do have a question tho, How old are you Shunga? Experience time in the adult trades? Or any trade. You seem to have a real fetish for not losing some pocket change that most of us toss in the homeless peoples cups. No flame there, I just need to adjust my thinking with abit more input on who I am dealing with.

shunga

I'll try not to take that as a flame. We're discussing issues here, not collecting fees, and I'm sure you can spot the difference. I do hope this discussion isn't going downhill from here.

I certainly don't have a problem with money.

shunga

Gemini might have something for you in PR.

Rivux

Gem - I dont know how much we should be thinking about the surfer and what his perception of the porn industry is. Regardless of what they think, they will still go out and buy porn. I dont think we should be trying to convice surfers that we are the good guys, we will Never win that battle.

This should be about the webmasters, owners and sponsors of sites, period. Its about making everyone elses job easier by building an organzition that allows everyone to work together easier and more efficiently.

I think that shunga is right, dont worry about the PR people right now, they are the least of our worries.

Lets focus on the important things, and I dont know about what other people think. But what the surfers think, isnt very important.

SixNine

This sounds like a good idea. Haven't had a chance to read every response but I like it.

Whoever heads this up let me know and SoulCash will co-sponsor it (Server space, $$, design, etc.).

Just hit me up if you need assistance:
Voice: 800.833.3818

SixNine
SoulCash.com

Amputate Your Head

Damn... I'm already being downsized.

Gemini

Thats just it Rivux. All it takes is a few surfers crying to Unca John or whatever a countries top legal guy's name is to focus them on us. Part of cleaning up is to make it KNOWN we are doing so. Sure, its not important right this minute, or next month even. But the focus is to make it known to the people buying from us that we have.

We need to shorten the time it takes to get that word widely known. Granted not yet by any means. But it must be an important issue.

Look at it from this view, I could care less that some cj or tgp site wraps a surfer up tot he point he can't get loose or crashes his system. So what?? **WE** don't do that (speaking about the hubby and I). WE are doing things right...

So how does some surfer in the UK know that WE are safe to surf??? Guess? Osmosis? Word of mouth? Telepathy?

PRESS. ONE mention on a CNN broadcast would get HOW many ears, and it would be an odd enough item to be spread word of mouth.

Anyone ever being in business knows the value of word of mouth advertising. Lens and all the rest get a high percentage of profit from that. Point there is we being the smaller guys can't gain that word of mouth as easily. But make that icon of a group known and it will be, pardon the pun, the shot heard 'round the World.

It just needs to be a prime target that we need to aim at as soon as practical. We could very well be organized by Jan 1. At least have enough of a following to make funding available to hire even for a short term, some press positives. Advertising sells and in this business, we need all the positives we can pull in. We certainly aren't getting any now. The idiot claiming credit for that huge CP bust is sitting back in an afterglow. That will fade soon. Who will be the next target? Certainly not someone that will have the funding to fight back to begin with.

It will be a few that can be cuffed and stuffed with very few words. But what if its someone flying the banner that shows they are trying to act properly? More of a public outrage results. And the public rarely reacts to an AFTER the fact announcement. Sort of like when they discover someone has been in prison for murder a while and then it comes to light they were there wrongly. Public outrage is limited to a "oh wow! Thats a shame".

Get it up, get it out. Show we aren't dealing with CP, show that *we* aren't trying to cheat the public as soon as we can manage.

Or we will be nothing but the back street fences in quasi-legal business, no matter the flag we fly.

shunga

The focus does HAVE to be on the surfer. We have to encourage them to trust us. Through that we WILL benefit, too. As Gemini says, if we don't clean up our business, someone will do it for us. Let's build the framework and take it from there.

-=HUNGRYMAN=-

SHIT !!!
I thought this post said "Got ETHNICS" ...

I was expecting some real cute asian, ebony, latina, and indian chicks' pics

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The Black Sheep of the Boneprone Family

Rivux

We do NOT have to encourage the surfer to trust us, they will trust us if we dont fuck them around. Do you think zilla, thehun or rr ever put up big messages saying "hey we are the good guys, look we do things properly, please buy from us", no. They just treated the surfer with some respect and the surfer kept coming back.

Nobody is going to listen to people in the adult business if we starting trying to say that we are the good guys here, it just wont happen, you can forget about it.

This isnt about telling the surfer/public about how we do things properly, its about getting more and more webmasters/sponsors to ACTUALLY do things properly, everything else will fall into place.

People who like porn, will surf porn, those that dont, arent going to change their minds. And if people only want to get in this so that ass***** leaves the porn industry alone then you are in it for the wrongs reasons, remember there is more to this world then the US.

Rivux

Yes you are correct, the focus is on the surfer, but not to encourage them to trust us, it is to encourage webmasters to conduct business properly, that will lead surfers to trust sites.

12clicks

guys, if you spent hae thinking about how to make money as you do on this bullshit, you'd be rich.

Stop wasting your time.

Rivux

So does that mean that you arent with us 12clicks? haha

RedShoe

Here is a link to the biggest union that I know of, (for my industry).
People pronunce it, "eye-AT-see" http://iatse.lm.com/

Mitght be a good base model.
What do you think?

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<A HREF="http://usexfan.com/ebonypink/index.html" TARGET=_blank>RedShoe is:
</A>
BoneProne Family Member

Wizzo

12clicks is Always RIGHT...

Wizzo

12clicks is Always RIGHT...

bauhaus

its a long read......but it seems like a good idea although I think it might give people an opportunity to make a decision, and it will be those who didn't think about it before to now take a long look and decide porn should be stopped....so this idea might make more people analyze a business that is highly immoral anyway you cut it? and I think that will bring added heat to this topic especially in the media.

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XXXPORNCASH
100% of all credit card Revenue
[email protected]
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ICQ 111744371
AIM timresnik2

shunga

You hit the nail on the head. And that's the whole idea behind AWG. When a surfer sees the AWG logo they know it complies with the AWG "good practise" rules. If it doesn't they have a clear link to complain, and if the complaint is upheld, the AWG member loses the right to display the logo, and that would be backed up by legal action, if necessary, as stated in the membership agreement.

shunga

If and when the time comes to defend our business I'd rather do it collectively than on an individual basis.

shunga

How does the General Executive Board actually work?

RedShoe

A lot of times in movies your job "title" is simply just that, a "title" and nothing more.

Pull out any one of your movies and look for the "associate producer" credit. It's total bullshit. It's usually given to friends of the producers, or people that the production wants to Schmooze later, or simply just to kiss their ass. An Associate Producer in film doesn't do shit, but they ride that title like they have all the power in the world.

Same as those "presidents", my guess is that they don't do a whole lot.



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<A HREF="http://usexfan.com/ebonypink/index.html" TARGET=_blank>RedShoe is:
</A>
BoneProne Family Member

shunga

I like the idea of an "Executive Board" for AWG, a small group of elected webmasters who would have be responsible for overseeing the organisation. That's an important aspect to consider.