DRM = More Revenue. Higher Retention. Content Protection

[Big Ray]

Only from Jupiter Hosting, a complete all inclusive "DRM" package!

A DRM Service that includes:

- 100 Mbps Bandwidth
- Mass Storage for your Video Content
- 2 Dell PowerEdge Servers for Content Distribution
- UNLIMITED LICENSE DELIVERY
- 20 Hours of initial programming, IPSP and Members Site Integration, and Encoding

ALL FOR $6,500 a Month!

The process is simple. Signup. Upload your unprotected movies in any format, and we will take care of the rest.

Under this promotion, we offer UNLIMITED LICENSE DELIVERY . We never take a cut of you DRM revenue!

READ THE DETAILS HERE!

Contact Poppy
ICQ: 42-640-781
Telephone: 408-855-8700 ext. 207

[Dirty F]

Wouldnt protecting movies in a member area just piss surfers off, make them cancel and go to a site that has movies they can actually download?

[AaronM]

Originally posted by Battuss
Wouldnt protecting movies in a member area just piss surfers off, make them cancel and go to a site that has movies they can actually download?

Apparently you are not familiar with DRM technology.

[Dirty F]

Originally posted by AaronM
Apparently you are not familiar with DRM technology.

You are correct sir. Hence the ?

So can someone explain to me why people use drm?

[ace0r]

Originally posted by Battuss
Wouldnt protecting movies in a member area just piss surfers off, make them cancel and go to a site that has movies they can actually download?

http://www.microsoft.com/windows/win...a/drm/faq.aspx

[Dirty F]

Originally posted by ace0r
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/win...a/drm/faq.aspx

I kinda know what it does but i dont understand what its used for.

[Big Ray]

Originally posted by Battuss
Wouldnt protecting movies in a member area just piss surfers off, make them cancel and go to a site that has movies they can actually download?

They would not know they are protected. It's called "silent delivery".

Here is a demo. When you download this movie, it will query our license server, send a license, and then play the movie. All without user involvement.

http://drm.jupiterhosting.com/demo3/Pinball.wmv

If this movie got shared on the net, to someone who was not a member, it would do this (prompt to login to your members area, or upsell them a pay-per-view license).

http://drm.jupiterhosting.com/demo/Pinball.wmv

[Dirty F]

Originally posted by Big Ray
They would not know they are protected. It's called "silent delivery".

Here is a demo. When you download this movie, it will query our license server, send a license, and then play the movie.

http://drm.jupiterhosting.com/demo3/Pinball.wmv

If this movie got shared on the net, to someone who was not a member, it would do this (prompt to login to your members area, or upsell them a pay-per-view license).

http://drm.jupiterhosting.com/demo/Pinball.wmv

I'll check it out...thanks.
Btw, if someone cancels his membership does this also means he wont be able to view the content anymore?

[Big Ray]

Originally posted by Battuss
I'll check it out...thanks.
Btw, if someone cancels his membership does this also means he wont be able to view the content anymore?

YES!

This is exactly how you improve membership retention.

The license is given to the user based on their membership subscription to your site. If they cancel, the license will expire on the same day that their membership to your site expires.

Any content they have downloaded to their local hard drive will now prompt them to pay to view it. Cool, huh?

This helps prevent users from signing up, downloading all the content, then canceling the membership. Once they know that when the membership is up, and all the content they used to be able to view off your site or their hard drive is now "LOCKED", I think they will be more inclined to stick around, don't you?

Of course, you can get very creative on the rights on your content and we can help.

[Dirty F]

Originally posted by Big Ray
YES!

This is exactly how you improve membership retention.

The license is given to the user based on their membership subscription to your site. If they cancel, the license will expire on the same day that their membership to your site expires.

Any content they have downloaded to their local hard drive will now prompt them to pay to view it. Cool, huh?

This helps prevent users from signing up, downloading all the content, then canceling the membership. Once they know that when the membership is up, and all the content they used to be able to view off your site or their hard drive is now "LOCKED", I think they will be more inclined to stick around, don't you?

I really see what youre aiming at but i just keep thinking totally different. The last thing i would do as a surfer is sign up for that site again, or any other drm site for that matter. Fuck, i would be totally pissed off and do a cb i think hahah. Now i never did a cb with anything but if i paid for content that i cant view after a month i would be really tempted to call my bank or cc company.

[Dirty F]

And also, i think a surfer who fell for this once would:
1 be scared to sign up for a site again thinking he will get ripped off again
2 If above doesnt apply, he will certainly never sign up for a site again that has drm.

Once again, i might be wrong, but this is my personal feeling i get when thinking of this drm system.

[Big Ray]

That's why I said...

"Of course, you can get very creative on the rights on your content and we can help."

We can tailor rights any way you want. You can have content never expire, regardless of if they are still a member or not.

You can have the content rights revoked the second they hit the cancel button.

You can pretty much do anything you want "rights" wise with DRM.

Simply put, the example you just gave me can be done easily.

[Dirty F]

Originally posted by Big Ray
That's why I said...

"Of course, you can get very creative on the rights on your content and we can help."

We can tailor rights any way you want. You can have content never expire, regardless of if they are still a member or not.

You can have the content rights revoked the second they hit the cancel button.

You can pretty much anything you want "rights" wise.

Simply put, the example you just gave me can be done easily.

Aight, well sounds good. I bet there are plenty of good uses for this system, personally i just would be very careful with what i call screwing your members over. Instead of expecting a rebill you might end up with a cb. But other then that it should be ok.

[rakeback]

Originally posted by Big Ray
Once they know that when the membership is up, and all the content they used to be able to view off your site or their hard drive is now "LOCKED", I think they will be more inclined to stick around, don't you?

No, I think they will find a less restrictive way of getting the content.

Cant you take a lesson from the RIAA and see how badly they dropped the ball?

Why the hell would someone signup with you if they can signup with someone that doesnt restrict their use?

also you say customers dont know about the DRM yet, somehow knowing that the content expires will keep them from cancelling.

DRM is a flawed business strategy.

I would recommend nearly everyone to avoid it.

[Paparazzi]

It's great, but I can also see alot of pissed surfers and way more cb:s

[serious]

Nice to see the technology getting better to not requiring any interaction with the user, although I had to do what I assume was a one time update with microsoft to play the file.

After that though it seemed to take like 8 seconds for the file to play, acquiring the license and what not, is that normal or just because it was my first playing of a drm protected file?

[doober]

Originally posted by rakeback


Why the hell would someone signup with you if they can signup with someone that doesnt restrict their use?

Guys, think about it for a second. Right now it seems like a shitty thing to do.
What If in 1-2 years everyone locks their content up?
There would be no other sites to join that offer an unlimited lifetime to the content, forcing the surfer to rejoin to view that content.
This is extremely good if the content is exclusive cause they can join any other site and they wont never be able to get the same thing unless they rejoined yours.

As a surfer I dont think its cool but as webmaster i think it has alot of potential. Seriously thinking about DRM the next site i make.

[serious]

Also, did you say its possible to never expire a users license? Would this mean that they could always play the file but would not be able to send it to anyone else?

This seems like a better idea for keeping happy customers while preventing file sharing.

[warlock5]

Rather then speculating, does anyone who uses DRM on their sites have proof that its either helped them or hurt them?

[Big Ray]

Originally posted by serious
Also, did you say its possible to never expire a users license? Would this mean that they could always play the file but would not be able to send it to anyone else?

This seems like a better idea for keeping happy customers while preventing file sharing.

YOU CAN DO THIS. The example I gave was just an example of one way to use DRM.

Rights can be extended forever to the subscriber, current or former, but to anyone they share the content to, they will be upsold to a pay-per-view system or a membership. Again, one example.

Everyone has been droning on for years about how exclusive content gets stolen. Now here is a way to protect it.

Good to have the discussion on DRM though.

Early adopters and "first movers" will reap the rewards.

[badmrfrosty]

I stopped promoting adultbouncer when they added drm because all i got were complaints of issues with media player, users having to type in their pws like 4 times to see 1 video, etc.

BMF

[doober]

DRM is currently available for what formats?
WMV is for sure
RM is also in there.

Does it support mpg, avi and quicktime?
What about sites using weird codecs?

[Big Ray]

Originally posted by badmrfrosty
I stopped promoting adultbouncer when they added drm because all i got were complaints of issues with media player, users having to type in their pws like 4 times to see 1 video, etc.

BMF

Sounds like license issues. Yes, it can happen. We have spent a lot of time and money making this robust.

[Big Ray]

Originally posted by doober
DRM is currently available for what formats?
WMV is for sure
RM is also in there.

Does it support mpg, avi and quicktime?
What about sites using weird codecs?

The delivery type is WMV.

We can convert any video to a DRM format.. HELL, ship us a case of DVDs and we'll DRM them.

[SomeCreep]

DRM is an interesting concept, but IMO those sites who chose to expire their content will get a lot of complaints and almost certainly raise their charge back ratio.

Once surfers start learning what DRM technology is, they will start looking to join sites that dont use it.

[Big Ray]

I think a lot of sites won't want to expire content so agressively, but they sure as hell will protect it from "file sharing schemes".

That just means that once a user is a member, he can watch the videos for as long as he has them downloaded. If he shares them, the folks he shares them to will be asked to buy.

Some may NOT like that DRM model. But the cool thing about DRM is that you can dream up your own!

[FlyingIguana]

Originally posted by Big Ray
They would not know they are protected. It's called "silent delivery".

Here is a demo. When you download this movie, it will query our license server, send a license, and then play the movie. All without user involvement.

http://drm.jupiterhosting.com/demo3/Pinball.wmv

If this movie got shared on the net, to someone who was not a member, it would do this (prompt to login to your members area, or upsell them a pay-per-view license).

http://drm.jupiterhosting.com/demo/Pinball.wmv

after a customer logs into the site, do they have to fill in their user/pass again to watch the movie?

if they have to do it every movie, that just gets lame imo. most people can't type well with two hands let alone one.

[David!]

DRM is the futur.
In a few years, as little as 2, as much as 6, we will need to adapt to new realities.
No more free porn as we know it, and all content will have to be locked up in order to keep minors out.
When this happens, just like when the Visa affair happened, a lot of smaller sites will disappear, however those who will stay will become more profitable.
Every one wil have to comply as Uncle Sam will not care where you are located as they will put pressure on Visa/MC to make sure no one can broadcast porn in unprotected areas.
It's a matter of causes and effects.
As for DRM, when porn is not as widely available as it is now, surfer who wants to rub one out will not have much choice, pay up or buy the latest SEARS lingerie catalog. So getting up to date now might be a very good idea


I am PussyMan and I approve this semi-intelligent post

[Big Ray]

Originally posted by FlyingIguana
after a customer logs into the site, do they have to fill in their user/pass again to watch the movie?

if they have to do it every movie, that just gets lame imo. most people can't type well with two hands let alone one.

No. Once a member logs in to your members area, or the video popup, they will not have to login again to view that or any other movie in your members area.

[doornx]

Originally posted by SomeCreep
DRM is an interesting concept, but IMO those sites who chose to expire their content will get a lot of complaints and almost certainly raise their charge back ratio.

Once surfers start learning what DRM technology is, they will start looking to join sites that dont use it.

How can a surfer see if a site uses DRM? It isn't written on the tour pages or anything.

And if it's transparent for the surfers they'll only notice it after they cancelled i assume? (unless you set the license to unlimited use)

Am i right or does the surfer know what's going on...or do you need to inform them in some kind of way in the members area to prevent chargebacks. Seems like a smart thing if you limit the license to watch movies for members only

[FlyingIguana]

Originally posted by PussyMan
DRM is the futur.
In a few years, as little as 2, as much as 6, we will need to adapt to new realities.
No more free porn as we know it, and all content will have to be locked up in order to keep minors out.
When this happens, just like when the Visa affair happened, a lot of smaller sites will disappear, however those who will stay will become more profitable.
Every one wil have to comply as Uncle Sam will not care where you are located as they will put pressure on Visa/MC to make sure no one can broadcast porn in unprotected areas.
It's a matter of causes and effects.
As for DRM, when porn is not as widely available as it is now, surfer who wants to rub one out will not have much choice, pay up or buy the latest SEARS lingerie catalog. So getting up to date now might be a very good idea


I am PussyMan and I approve this semi-intelligent post

i honestly don't see it happening. free speech means something

[FlyingIguana]

Originally posted by doornx
How can a surfer see if a site uses DRM? It isn't written on the tour pages or anything.

And if it's transparent for the surfers they'll only notice it after they cancelled i assume? (unless you set the license to unlimited use)

Am i right or does the surfer know what's going on...or do you need to inform them in some kind of way in the members area to prevent chargebacks. Seems like a smart thing if you limit the license to watch movies for members only

in windows media player it says something about acquiring license. so the surfer will know.

[David!]

Originally posted by FlyingIguana
i honestly don't see it happening. free speech means something

They'll use the war on terror as an excuse to start (as it is done now, the terrorists have porn sites to finance themselves, blah blah blah).

[SomeCreep]

Originally posted by doornx
How can a surfer see if a site uses DRM? It isn't written on the tour pages or anything.

And if it's transparent for the surfers they'll only notice it after they cancelled i assume? (unless you set the license to unlimited use)

Yes, as far as I know, DRM is transparent to the surfer. Hopefully sites expiring their content will explain exactly what kind of membership they're offering and that all videos downloaded will only work while the surfer remains a member. Else surfers will feel cheated once their movies stop working.

[Big Ray]

Originally posted by doornx
How can a surfer see if a site uses DRM? It isn't written on the tour pages or anything.

And if it's transparent for the surfers they'll only notice it after they cancelled i assume? (unless you set the license to unlimited use)

Am i right or does the surfer know what's going on...or do you need to inform them in some kind of way in the members area to prevent chargebacks. Seems like a smart thing if you limit the license to watch movies for members only

Good question... statement..

Simply put. DRM licensing can be passive. That means that, YES, the license process can be completely transparent to the member.

What a passive DRM implimentaiton does is is protect YOUR rights from having that content exploited / shared / traded without it being paid for.

Here is an example of what a movie would look like to a member of your site.

http://drm.jupiterhosting.com/demo3/Pinball.wmv

Hard to tell the license was issued, but it was.

You can always issue an unlimited license on the content for any subscriber / member to a site.

If the policy is assertive (you cancel, rights to view content are revoked) then it is up to the webmaster of the site to determine if they should inform users to that effect.

[doornx]

Originally posted by Big Ray
Good question... statement..

Simply put. DRM licensing can be passive. That means that, YES, the license process can be completely transparent to the member.

What a passive DRM implimentaiton does is is protect YOUR rights from having that content exploited / shared / traded without it being paid for.

Here is an example of what a movie would look like to a member of your site.

http://drm.jupiterhosting.com/demo3/Pinball.wmv

Hard to tell the license was issued, but it was.

You can always issue an unlimited license on the content for any subscriber / member to a site.

If the policy is assertive (you cancel, rights to view content are revoked) then it is up to the webmaster of the site to determine if they should inform users to that effect.

K..i'm still lost on one point..

Say the license is set to unlimited. When a former member tries to watch a movie will a request be sent to the server?
If not, how is it possible to prevent sharing.

And will those requests put a heavy load on a server?

[Big Ray]

Originally posted by doornx
K..i'm still lost on one point..

Say the license is set to unlimited. When a former member tries to watch a movie will a request be sent to the server?
If not, how is it possible to prevent sharing.

And will those requests put a heavy load on a server?

"Say the license is set to unlimited. When a former member tries to watch a movie will a request be sent to the server?"

A request will be sent to our license server each and every time a DRM'ified movie is played, yes.

Several attributes of the video, player, and cookies allow the license server to determine they were a former member. Remeber, the license is delivered in a file on your PC. That licenses corosponds to the rights of that license on our server. If any of those attributes are false, the user is prompted to buy. The best way to show this is to see an example. I will have one put up tomorrow.

I can assure you though. Granting an unlimited play license to members (former or otherwise) does NOT break the trading aspect.

Load can break a license server, so we have built several in a load balanced cluster. Adding capacity is as easy as adding hardware, and god knows we have enough of that around here.

[doornx]

Originally posted by Big Ray
"Say the license is set to unlimited. When a former member tries to watch a movie will a request be sent to the server?"

A request will be sent to our license server each and every time a DRM'ified movie is played, yes.

Several attributes of the video, player, and cookies allow the license server to determine they were a former member. Remeber, the license is delivered in a file on your PC. That licenses corosponds to the rights of that license on our server. If any of those attributes are false, the user is prompted to buy. The best way to show this is to see an example. I will have one put up tomorrow.

I can assure you though. Granting an unlimited play license to members (former or otherwise) does NOT break the trading aspect.

Load can break a license server, so we have built several in a load balanced cluster. Adding capacity is as easy as adding hardware, and god knows we have enough of that around here.

Thanks for clearing that up

[tony286]

A few thoughts to prevent file sharing I think its a good thing. To expire the clip you are playing with fire. For too long the surfer has been able to download and keep the pics, clips from the site he joins. To tell him now you cant do that wont fly and considering we live in a world where charging back can be done online is asking for CB heaven.
Also at six thousand dollars you will never get the little adult webmasters to adopt and they make up a large majority of the sites on the net.

As far as getting people to stay the trick is to make content a priority . Make interesting and original, not the same old content from the same 4 suppliers everybody uses.

It seems to me the only retention is the webmaster that is now married to the company that provides drm.

[{fusion}]

If you do it silently you will just create more chargebacks, some people take files home or refomat there PC from time to time, if you screw them there going to chargeback.

if chargeback ratios are as tight as 1% i think that issue would be far more important than a small percentage of people who file share.

you cant treat the surfer as a pirate

[Big Ray]

Originally posted by tony404
A few thoughts to prevent file sharing I think its a good thing. To expire the clip you are playing with fire. For too long the surfer has been able to download and keep the pics, clips from the site he joins. To tell him now you cant do that wont fly and considering we live in a world where charging back can be done online is asking for CB heaven.
Also at six thousand dollars you will never get the little adult webmasters to adopt and they make up a large majority of the sites on the net.

As far as getting people to stay the trick is to make content a priority . Make interesting and original, not the same old content from the same 4 suppliers everybody uses.

It seems to me the only retention is the webmaster that is now married to the company that provides drm.

Isn't there a maximum time limit on when a member can chargeback? 6 months? 12? Set DRM to expire then if you go the agressive route or give them unlimited rights for viewing.

Remember, DRM is what you make it. You own the rights. You can change them to work for you. The idea behind DRM is that it has to be flexible for the content owner.

Content is key. I agree. Shity, saturated content wont do any better on P2P than on a members site. Same rules apply.

The fact remains, DRM exist as publishers and producers were tired of getting content ripped off. If you buy into that, then you buy into content protection and you buy into DRM (Digital Rights Management).

I think its hard to say you?re tired of getting content ripped off, but don't think DRM is the way to protect it. DRM, in the broad term, is the only way to solve this problem.

[Big Ray]

Originally posted by {fusion}
If you do it silently you will just create more chargebacks, some people take files home or refomat there PC from time to time, if you screw them there going to chargeback.

if chargeback ratios are as tight as 1% i think that issue would be far more important than a small percentage of people who file share.

you cant treat the surfer as a pirate

This is meant as discussion, not adversarial.

If what you say is how you feel, you also must feel that getting your exclusive content traded / shared is just "the cost of doing business"?

I agree you can't treat the customer like a thief, but now you can do something to protect your ownership rights.

[jayeff]

I noticed the requirement for the license to be checked against the host's server. Is that going to cause issues if a site switches hosts?

[Big Ray]

Originally posted by jayeff
I noticed the requirement for the license to be checked against the host's server. Is that going to cause issues if a site switches hosts?

No. The rights to view (silent delivery) is a function of an encrypted cookie.. not IP or hostname.

You can use our DRM at other hosts (did I just say that).

The license does need to be checked, however, against our license server. That server is independent of any server you may have here at Jupiter or elseware

[-=HOAX=-]

Quite frankily I'm amazed at how a large majority of webmaster simply see a sinlge facet to this technology, when in truth the opportunities that lie within the functionality of this stuff are quite frankly going to bring about a real revolution in the way we do business.

Truly content is king, not only is drm about protecting the commodity we make our livings on, its about presenting our products to the end user in a new, easy, and innovative manner.

[pine]

$6500 a month for hosting? That's a whooole 'nother world.

[M_M]

Soon content producers wont lease you content unless you use DRM technology.

DRM is the future, better believe it.

[AWW - Kevin]

Originally posted by -=HOAX=-
Quite frankily I'm amazed at how a large majority of webmaster simply see a sinlge facet to this technology, when in truth the opportunities that lie within the functionality of this stuff are quite frankly going to bring about a real revolution in the way we do business.

Truly content is king, not only is drm about protecting the commodity we make our livings on, its about presenting our products to the end user in a new, easy, and innovative manner.

very true and well said

[$pikes]

My 2 cents..

DRM is king. We are already using it on our pornstar classics site and are now adding it to all our sites with exclusive content. We own films of the big classic stars ( Christy Canyon, John Holmes..ect ) that were never released on DVD and very difficult to find on VHS so, they were never put out in the market digitally and unprotected. For this reason alone, releasing our movies in a protected format is key. With DRM these will never be burned on DVD and end up for sale in Asia or Europe or hell.. Down the street at a swap meet or on Kazaa. We can't go back in time and shoot more footage of Ginger Lynn when she was 20! The expiring license vs. charge back issue... so far so good.

Another huge benefit not discussed yet is: using a DRM system allows us to stream a protected movie in the new Media 9 format. When this is done from a Win Media Streaming Server, the surfer?s experience/quality of the movie blows away anything we've tried in the past. Additionally, and anyone here that does their own editing/encoding will agree... Being able to encode one multibit file that streams from full screen broadband to 56k dialup, all in one file, with almost zero buffering is a dream come true.

[MikeHawk]

Originally posted by $pikes
My 2 cents..

DRM is king. We are already using it on our pornstar classics site and are now adding it to all our sites with exclusive content. We own films of the big classic stars ( Christy Canyon, John Holmes..ect ) that were never released on DVD and very difficult to find on VHS so, they were never put out in the market digitally and unprotected. For this reason alone, releasing our movies in a protected format is key. With DRM these will never be burned on DVD and end up for sale in Asia or Europe or hell.. Down the street at a swap meet or on Kazaa. We can't go back in time and shoot more footage of Ginger Lynn when she was 20! The expiring license vs. charge back issue... so far so good.

Another huge benefit not discussed yet is: using a DRM system allows us to stream a protected movie in the new Media 9 format. When this is done from a Win Media Streaming Server, the surfer?s experience/quality of the movie blows away anything we've tried in the past. Additionally, and anyone here that does their own editing/encoding will agree... Being able to encode one multibit file that streams from full screen broadband to 56k dialup, all in one file, with almost zero buffering is a dream come true.

FUCK YEAH