winter_

is edward snowden living up a cosy russian winter in russia now after he betrayed his country, embarrassed it, dragging its reputation through the mud another time. do you think he will find the refuge he desires, and god knows needs, in russia? should he? the penalty for releasing just a shred of classified government information in to the public domain can be punishable by death in the united states.

i suppose his brother in arms julian assange thinks with a clear conscience he also represents the truth, yet he represents falsity.

Phoenix

obvious troll is too obvious

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madeofmoney

Do you do privates BB?

k0nr4d

it's like 10c in moscow this time of year right? Far from cosy russian winter...

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oppoten

Many Russian women wrote to him as soon as he arrived. So yes, if he wants it

I actually can't understand why Americans have got a problem with him. He called your government out on shit that needed to be called out.

klinton

he is a hero, not a traitor....more people like him are needed in every corporation and each nation

nico-t

people who have a problem with him are the perfect citizen to a governement: Brainwash = succesful

xenigo

Fuck yeah.

Fuck yeah.

Indeed.

Edward Snowden is a true American hero, and more of a patriot than Winter will ever be. Go back to sucking the government's cock, Winter.

I find it sad that you think we should be paying a government agency to perform functions that weren't ever disclosed to the people paying.

And you're sitting here saying "YO, SIGN ME UP FOR THAT SHIT! I HAVE NO CLUE WHAT IT IS, BUT IF WE DON'T KNOW ABOUT IT, IT HAS TO BE GOOD! I LOVE SURPRISES! I DON'T WANT THE SURPRISE RUINED SO LET'S TORTURE AND IMPRISON ANYONE WHO TELLS ME WHAT'S BEHIND THE VEIL OF SECRECY!"

Makes no sense. You shouldn't be allowed to vote.

Best-In-BC

Hero hero hero

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winter_

but the united states government wasn't called out. obama played politics with the issue when he met the newly installed chinese president during the furore of the leak by not even raising it with him. remember? when he was trying to find a hideout in china on the run.

remember those high definition pictures? he looks like such a cunt. that wasn't the face of a hero that was the face of a clown.

he is an idiot and gay for murdoch's press. if you are associated with murdoch in any way how in the fuck do you sleep at night. he should be fully aware the whole world knows what he looks like because his babyfaced mug was whored out by the murdoch reptilian mafia to merely chug out a headline.

there is money to be made, baby! an attention grabbing paper selling headline such as a spy on the run makes his cock big, veiny and raging for orgasm.

oppoten

I agree about Murdoch, and I also agree that Snowden's motives are unclear. The far left and far right both seem to have adopted him as an icon.

But someone needed to say that shit publically, especially about unfiltered data being handed over to Israel. Why would Americans want this? Doesn't seem unpatriotic to me.

SilentKnight

whistleblower = hero

TheSquealer

He committed treason against his own country. He stole and then distributed sensitive intelligence data. He is living in Russia ONLY because it's a chance for Putin to make Obama (and the USA) look weak yet again and Russia strong. In doing so, they elevate their status in the world and that directly ties to improved political support, alliances, expanded trade and so on. Protecting Snowden and allowing him to speak, allows a President who is widely criticized for stifling speech to look as if he is protecting speech. It is an opportunity for a President who is well known for stifling critics to appear as if he supports criticism of government - while knowing his own government will never be the one criticized. It's all win/win/win for Putin and Russia on every level with no downside whatsoever.

The greatest irony of Snowden living in Russia is that now, ALL of his correspondence is monitored and documented. All of his phone calls are recorded. He is surrounded by people who are active agents to monitor him, his activities, any contact he has with any person from the moment he wakes up to the moment he falls asleep - from girls who talk to him, friends he makes to cab drivers, store clerks and so on. He will never have any interaction with another human being that isn't fully documented. Girls hitting on him and getting close to him, are far more likely to be paid agents from various departments of the FSB, than dumb girls. Every time he thinks about masturbating, it is recorded and documented and goes into a file in Lubyanka and that is exactly how it will be for the rest of his time in Russia as he is not only a possible/potential security threat... he is a confirmed security threat and confirmed traitor. All of this will be happening in addition to constant, regular interviews with Russian security services.

Once Snowden has no further value to Russia (which now is simply that he's a symbol of Putin/Russia defying Obama/USA) and likely only when we have a US President that is not a shameless pussy... he will be handed over to the USA upon demand and likely tried for treason... so his future is not so bright either. It will only have one outcome. He will eventually be tried and convicted in the US.

It's amusing to see those supporting Snowden are willfully ignoring the fact that he is being protected by a regime well known for human rights abuses, wide spread corruption, rigged elections, stifling freedom of speech, no free press etc and convince themselves that its all simply because they "care" and are on the side of what is good and right... not simply because its a shrewd political move made possible only by our weak president and others lack of respect for him.

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Rochard

Minte

Calling out the government isn't going to change what they are doing. It's only going to change how they are doing it. Spying on other governments isn't the problem. Getting caught spying is. The government just needs to get sneakier. And they will.

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adendreams

let me guess: your only news source is Fox news - I'm glad they are keeping you infromed

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SilentKnight

Sounds a lot like the country he fled from.

dyna mo

snowden is a jackass coward snoop.

he didn't do jack shit to help anything. he's done more damage. what good has come out that he revealed nsa snooped on german chancellor ?

nothing good. not 1 good thing has resulted from his big snoop of the snoops, and in fact, it has done serious damage to relationships.

dyna mo

snowden effectively opened the door for every nation to snoop as deep as they can.

this isn't going to stop the current snooping, it's going to expand it globally and increase the level of sneakiness and some of you people are jumping up and down saying he's a hero for that.

i couldn't give a shit if you do that. just don't point your finger at me for realizing the damage done while you're genuflecting a cowardly dumbass.

Rochard

A hero? Sure sure. All he's done is expose our secrets, and to date has yet to prove where the NSA broke the law.

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sperbonzo

Rochard.... You are amazing. People have shown you PLENTY of examples where they have broken the law, and yet you just keep on repeating yourself over and over, like a mantra. Are you trying to convince yourself?

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SilentKnight

Interesting poll results from Huffington:

NSA Leaks Poll Finds Americans Divided Over Edward Snowden's Actions

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/0...n_3430506.html

And this part I found most interesting:

Markul

dyna mo

hah, my views on shit never jibe with the mainstream! lolz. i'm up to speed on snowden's antics and still conclude he is a coward jackass that harmed things more than helped.


but i'm always open to things, if someone can fill me in on what good has come from this, holler!

nico-t

bring some openness in a dirty, fascist corrupt system where governments are spying on their own citizens? Maybe?

TheSquealer

Given the fact that i am fluent in Russian and English and have spent substantial parts of my life in both countries, i can say emphatically that there are absolutely no comparisons between both nations in these ways and they are absolutely nothing at all alike in these ways. Russia has changed a great deal since the collapse of the Soviet Union and made tremendous progress in many ways thanks largely to Mr Putin who faced a very daunting and seemingly impossible task to start taking the country back from Yeltsin era oligarchs and stemming corruption, normalizing the tax codes, legal system etc, but when it comes to individual freedoms, rights, freedom of speech etc, they have made very little progress. And these,.... these very things, are all the things Snowden claims to be fighting for.

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Rochard

mineistaken

There were 2 major heroes in US this year - Zimmerman and Snowden. Too bad their lives are not quality now because of fools who can not think.

crockett

Spying on other govts is not the problem, spying on random individuals and corporations is. Our country is not only spying on random people abroad, but they are spying on us as well. You can bet your ass they are also spying on corporate interests as well, both within and out side the US.

mineistaken

Well said, guys
Snowden = hero who was not afraid to talk. many would have been.

dyna mo

of course. i expect them too. governments across the globe go to bat for the big businesses they represent. you only have to look at the military and oil bidness for that.

in fact, i would be concerned if my country was not engaged in international corporate espionage, we would certainly be at an economic disadadvantage.

TheSquealer

This is in large part, why allies spy extensively on each other. Though in some areas interests may be aligned... i.e. "position on Iran", in most they are not, no matter how tight the relationships appear from the outside... and as you've said, they are still in direct competition with each other in business/trade.

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Rochard

mineistaken

It is because "quality" countries (as defined my US media) would not accept him and rather deport him back to US. So there were no options other than to stay in "bad" country.

TheSquealer

I was more pointing out the irony of someone protesting wide spread genocide while being housed comfortably inside a Nazi death camp, sheltered and protected by the SS.

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Rochard

Barry-xlovecam

seeandsee

if this is real, that is scary, and tracking your hole life is not god even a 0,000000000000000000000000001%

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sperbonzo

Interestingly, one of the original authors of the PATRIOT ACT is trying to reform it...

http://thestateweekly.com/patriot-ac...uesday-report/


Patriot Act Author Introducing Anti-NSA Spying Legislation Tuesday: Report
By Admin on October 28, 2013


by Ali Papademetriou

Wisconsin Representative and former Patriot Act author, James Sensenbrenner, has proven to be a fervent advocate for preserving US citizens? civil liberties and against unconstitutional government surveillance.

Last month, the American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) and the Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF) filed an amicus brief on behalf of Sensenbrenner, arguing that the NSA?s surveillance is completely unauthorized and out of control.

The EFF defended that Sensenbrenner has been maintaining that the Patriot Act was not supposed to allow Congress ?to permit the NSA?s collection of the records of every telephone call made to, from and within the United States.?

?I stand by the Patriot Act and support the specific targeting of terrorists by our government, but the proper balance has not been stuck between civil rights and American security,? the Representative said in a statement to the EFF. ?A large, intrusive government ? however benevolent it claims to be ? is not immune from the simple truth that centralized power threatens liberty.?

He concluded by detailing, ?Americans are increasingly wary that Washington is violating the privacy rights guaranteed to us by the Fourth Amendment.?

Earlier this month, it was reported that Sensenbrenner was planning on taking one step further. The Patriot Act author said he?d be proposing legislation to limit the NSA?s out-of-control surveillance of American citizens in the House. The Guardian reported weeks ago that he?d be naming his legislation the Uniting and Strengthening America by Fulfilling Rights and Ending Eavesdropping, Dragnet-Collection, and Online Monitoring Act ? or US Freedom Act.

According to a report by Breitbart.com, the bill already has more than 50 co-sponsors, some of whom also voted against the Amash amendment ? a bill that failed to pass, which was introduced by ?Ron Paul Republican? Representative Justin Amash this past summer with efforts of limiting NSA surveillance.

The US Freedom Act reportedly only needs seven members to successfully pass, so at this rate, its likelihood for passage is very high.

Sensenbrenner is planning on introducing his bill this Tuesday.

?Several Members have told the media that if they knew now what they knew then, specifically NSA audit documents that seemed to contradict what they were being told, then they would have voted for the Amash Amendment,? reported Breitbart.com. ?It?s worth noting that 13 members who voted to stop the PATRIOT Act two years ago voted against the Amash Amendment back in July.?

According to a letter being handed around to the Members, Sensenbrenner?s bill is being portrayed as a vehicle ?to rein in the dragnet collection of data by the National Security Agency (NSA) and other government agencies, increase transparency of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court (FISC), provide businesses the ability to release information regarding FISA requests, and create an independent constitutional advocate to argue cases before the FISC.?

Addressing Section 215 and stopping the massive snooping of American communications, reforming the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court, increasing transparency, and addressing ?National Security Letters? are among the key provisions noted in the bill?s drafted version.

Sensenbrenner?s legislation is also anticipating a matched proposal from Senate Judiciary committee chair Patrick Leahy, which reportedly ?pulls together existing congressional efforts to reform the National Security Agency in the wake of disclosures by whistleblower Edward Snowden.?





. So POSSIBLY, there may be some kind of fix to this..... Still, it's a shame that Justin Amash's bill didn't pass, (albeit by a close margin).







.

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Rochard

Someone else - Barry - posted up a number of links in another thread this weekend. None of them provided any proof of the NSA breaking any laws. Instead, they were about the ACLU trying to take the US Goverment to court because they thought a law was illegal, and another link about how one of eleven Federal judges quit over this. Multiple posts and half a dozen links, and he was unable to provide me with a link proving where the law was violated.

Can you show me a link where someone was arrested, and went to jail because the NSA did something illegal? (I can.)

I am not really saying that the NSA hasn't broken any laws. I am sure they have; It would be difficult for them not to break any laws. The laws are created, then law enforcement or Homeland Security wants to do one thing, and suddenly it falls on the NSA to define the law legally, and decide where the line is. On more than one occasion the NSA has come back and said "We don't believe we can do this legally" and multiple times the NSA has reported itself back to Congress saying they may have unintentionally broken the law.

My problem is that a lot of people believe the NSA is automatically tapping everyone's phones and emails, and I don't believe that is the case. With that said, any law enforcement agency can quickly get a warrant and read all of your email since the beginning of time and trace your location through cell phone towers quicker than they can bake a pie. Law enforcement has always been able to do this; When I was a teen a friend's house was robbed and I got called in because someone I lived with had called a pawn shop.

If Homeland Security wants to read your email they will - all they need to do is get a warrant, which seems to be a rubber stamp process. They might even be able to read your email in real lime. But I don't believe the NSA is doing it in bulk without a warrant. It's not like getting a warrant is a difficult process.

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dyna mo

i actually and honestly think this is a terrible way to go. codifying snooping will permanently seal this as well & good. \


this is fake legislation:

that's not about stopping or curtailing snooping at all, this is a corner trim.

the legislation also goes on to *revise* fisa, well fisa has been proven to be absolutely worthless and ineffectual, a revision is not going to fix that.



but most importantly, i followed all of the bills introduced after snowden that were anti-nsa, how many have become law? none. this won't be any different.

again, snowden didn't help the problem, he made it much much worse. look at is this way- since snowden, the nsa has come out and said they snoop, fuck you. obama has come out and supported that snooping, no legislation has passed to curb it. international relationships are damaged and economic deal chats between friendly nations have been canceled.

that's not hero level shit.

if this legislation passes it will be even more of this, it will more firmly legalize snooping.

dyna mo

The daily El Mundo ("The World") cited information provided by former U.S. intelligence contractor Edward Snowden that showed that the NSA collected bulk data on 60 million phone calls placed in Spain in December 2012.


http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2...one-month?lite

Barry-xlovecam

Rochard

Not caring.

What does everyone think the NSA does? It collects information, and it doesn't get warrants when it's in other countries. In the 1980s it read microwave transmissions and hacked fax machines. Outside of the US, US laws do not apply - and the NSA cannot get a warrant.

This is what the NSA has been doing since it was created.

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_Richard_

ya'll posting in a camgirl troll thread

dyna mo

i didn't post that for you. lolz. you make it very clear very many times that you do not care. that's pretty much all you post in fact. don't care. i get it.... we get it.

i posted it for the folks that understand how out of control and automatic and widespread the nsa snooping is.


snowden's only amplified that.

klinton

and thats the sad irony of history (being protected by "freedom lovers" ex KGB guys). and Swowden, asked in June (before landing in moscow) by glen greenwald what he thinks that will happen with him said : "probably nothing good".... so, yes you are right....
anyway Russians and Putin killed Litvienko guy (google it) and Litvienko was loudly saying that Putin came to power by false flags operations (bombs in apartaments in Russia in 1999)..and he was saying many other things actually, not so good about Russian goverment....
Snowden wanted to have some debate not on him but on leaks and tech issues that leaks are about...And thats what is going on in the world...well, at least in that part of world who "thinks". so i think that he is still hero....
all powers and govs are the same - they want more power and control...it doesnt matter if its Russian gov, French, German or American...the rest is up to society if they allow small fraction to control rest....and Snowden leaks are saying about some VERY dangerous situation in current democracies...imagine how powerfull is database of action of every human being (who uses phones and Internet) and his believs, thoughts, actions, friends, networks and so on...
now take best mathematics in the world, let them make algoritms on human behavior and its like predicting future (almost)...I still believe in chaos , not in orders, govs and money and power greedy and hungry people....

klinton

yes its real, and as "advanced" internet user you should already know that...;-)

TheSquealer

Putin was in power well before the apartment bombings. Putin was President the moment he was named Prime Minister. The election was 6 months out and that gave him 6 months to campaign to gain the popular vote. Putin came to power because it was put to Yeltsin (who was little more than a babbling, incoherent drunk and pill junkie in his last couple years) that if he resigned, he and his daughter would not be prosecuted for all the theft, corruption and abuses of power. Putin was decided to be President of Russia more than 6 months before he was appointed Prime Minister by Yeltsin... the actual election was 6 months later after Yeltsin resigned. The bombings were a pretext to attacking Chechnya again. Putins main promise in his campaign was to destroy the Chechen rebels. The apartment bombings, though sad, were real. Though its often impossible to know what is real and what isn't in a world of secrets and lies, I did know someone who was on the prosecutors team in the apartment bombings. Besides, there is nothing magic or technically difficult about placing 50kilos of cheap explosives in the ground floor of a concrete panel building that by design, is built to fall like a house of cards. There was however no shortage of bad propaganda leading up to the 2nd war with Chechnya constantly showing staged "battles" by "rebels" etc. The problems with Chechnya were also very real and they were a very real threat in the region and to the safety and security of both Russia and neighboring states.

The "false flag" stuff is usual conspiracy theorist nonsense. What is very real, is how Moscow capitalized on the events (apartment bombings, Chechen rebel raids into Dagestan etc) to blow them up into more than they were and keep people in a frenzy (with operation whirlwind and crap like that which affected every single person practically in the nation).

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Rochard

Rochard

Snowden has made some claims but so far he hasn't proven anything although he has tens of thousands of documents. No one has been arrested, and to date the only one who seems to have broken the law is Snowden himself.

Everyone seems to be jumping on the bandwagon saying "I don't want my emails being read" without understanding that the NSA isn't reading our emails in bulk.

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Deputy Chief Command

fuck the NSA ! I don't want my emails being read in bulk!!

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dyna mo

i'm with you, fuck that shit!

klinton

you get my point...it helped him to "strengthup" his image in public... and it was false flag....

and if you'd look into human's history, then you'd know that false flags ops are real and not (always) made by conspiration theorists

he came to power in 1999, exactly enough to prepare September operations...especially for the guy who was exKGB and who was chief of FSB (former KGB) in the same 1999