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Old 02-27-2012, 04:21 PM   #201
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shotsie View Post
Are you really trying to compare The Netherlands to the United States?
Uhm yes, i did. What's your problem with that? I'm trying to show what every normal person knows:
Less guns = less gun violence.

Typically the only people who can't understand this are gun owners.. How odd is that.
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Old 02-27-2012, 04:22 PM   #202
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Stop looking at the effects and lets look at the cause
No one is arguing that the cause needs to be addressed. People are pointing out if you had less guns, less people would be shot.

Come up with a counterpoint to that, rather than building straw men.
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Old 02-27-2012, 04:22 PM   #203
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What about the government and their guns? Or do they somehow magically not count?
All government's have guns dumbass. ALL.
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Old 02-27-2012, 04:22 PM   #204
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Interesting. Mexico has only 15 guns per 100 people. And US 88 per 100. But the Firearm homicides per capita is higher in Mexico.
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Old 02-27-2012, 04:22 PM   #205
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So guns were not designed to kill? They were designed for sports and collecting ? Riiight
That's not what I said. I said not everyone has a gun with the intent to kill someone.

What they were designed for is irrelevant. I use paper binders as computer cable holders. Wasn't what they were designed for, but that's how I use them. Just like a gun, not everyone has one so they can kill people.

Sport, collection, investment, and protection would top the list. If you want to see guns that has a single purpose of killing people, look no further than any military force in the world. If you want to see guns made for killing animals, look at hunters.


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No shit, however the intended purpose of a gun is to kill, not to sit on a mantel place/shelf/safe.
It doesn't matter what they were intended for. A diesel engine was built to run on peanut oil. Guns have transcended what they were built for.


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I bet the owner of the gun in question here did not buy it thinking it would be used to kill a kid.
Yet the companies who make the guns and bullets send 1000s of guns and millions of bullets to countries all over the world where they are used to kill kids, mostly by military forces.

What the owner bought the gun for is again irreverent. He may be a gunsmith or a policeman. We don't know yet.



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I will never need a gun.
I hope you don't.



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Originally Posted by georgeyw View Post
First world countries are generally thought to be civilised - this being my point.
"Thought to be" is where you're making the wrong assumption. Many nations that should be civilized are not. If in question, look to history or even recent times and see what happens during times of protest or civil unrest.


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But it is.
It isn't where I live and guns are more easily obtained than in the USA, as are serious assault weapons.


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Originally Posted by DJ The Kid View Post
It takes a person to pull the trigger. There are tons of responsible individuals who own firearms, and have grown up around firearms for generations. Without incident.

Let's not blame this on "easy access" to firearms. We all know the countries were it's illegal to own one, it's still not hard to get one. And if someone really wants to commit a crime using one, they WILL find it, whether it's illegal or not. It's just like a drug addict, just because it's illegal doesn't mean people don't do drugs or find them.

Making guns illegal, just like drugs, or other things for that matter - like prostitution. Will have an even more negative impact on those situations.
Great post DJ.
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Old 02-27-2012, 04:23 PM   #206
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Less guns = less gun violence.

Interesting. Mexico has only 15 guns per 100 people. And US 88 per 100. But the Firearm homicides per capita is higher in Mexico.
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Old 02-27-2012, 04:23 PM   #207
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Stop looking at the effects and lets look at the cause
The cause is lax gun laws, the end result is 'High School shooting in Ohio'.
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Old 02-27-2012, 04:23 PM   #208
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tell me again WHY did you ask me to remove you off ignore when this is all you do?



"oh fletch ive been such a dick trolling you I do it for no reason and I know ive been a douche" basically your words... LOL

now you pissed because I actually discuss something with you and prove you wrong?

LOLz
What are you saying? Less guns does not result in less gun violence? Seriously?

Should we make grenades as easy to get as guns? Why not? It won't result in more grenade violence? Right?
Right Fletch?


Right Fletch???

Answer me Fletch, is that correct?
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Old 02-27-2012, 04:23 PM   #209
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Ok, let me put it this way. I hope you will answer this.
Should every American who is allowed to buy a gun also be allowed to BUY any other weapon. Any weapon you can think of?
Short answer: yes. The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.

Of course, it's infringed all the time, and in many different ways, but as long as fat ass rednecks to get to shoot deer and impotently blog about the Illuminati, the NWO or the zombie apocalypse, nobody really cares.

The point of the right to keep and bear arms is said to be to ward off tyrannical Government. The good people of the late 18th century had essentially the same weapons as the Government, so by rights the people of 2012 should have the same weapons as the Government. How else do we fight tyranny?

Funny thing is, gunloons do not agree, presumably believing their stash of AR-15s is enough to fight off a tyrannical Government's collection of tactical nuclear missiles.
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Old 02-27-2012, 04:24 PM   #210
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Still it doesn't change the fact that there are way less guns per 1000 people in Holland with results in way less gun violence. Something that is still really fucking hard to understand for hicks like you.
How about overall violence? Honest question, how are overall violence stats compared to the US?

.
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Old 02-27-2012, 04:24 PM   #211
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Listen everyone.

We Americans are stupid animals that like guns and killing each other. Just think, the fewer Americans there are the easier it will be for the rest of the world to rise up and conquer the evil that is America.

Sounds like a win for non-Americans. Recognize your victories!
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Old 02-27-2012, 04:25 PM   #212
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Interesting. Mexico has only 15 guns per 100 people. And US 88 per 100. But the Firearm homicides per capita is higher in Mexico.
The dumb fucking scammer defending piece of shit is getting serious now. Posting in a big font
Watch out everybody.

Only 15 per 100 people Love the part where he says "only".
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Old 02-27-2012, 04:25 PM   #213
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What are you saying? Less guns does not result in less gun violence? Seriously?

Should we make grenades as easy to get as guns? Why not? It won't result in more grenade violence? Right?
Right Fletch?


Right Fletch???

Answer me Fletch, is that correct?

Interesting. Mexico has only 15 guns per 100 people. And US 88 per 100. But the Firearm homicides per capita is higher in Mexico.

So yes you are wrong.
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Old 02-27-2012, 04:25 PM   #214
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It's a funny thread. Most arguments on GFY have two sides of people both talking out of their arses.

Here, we have one group of people talking with facts proving that more guns = more gun crime, and other people just saying "nyaah nyaah nyaah I can't here you".

Funny stuff.

God bless the NRA!
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Old 02-27-2012, 04:25 PM   #215
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ALL of your citizens voluntarily turned over their firearms? Every one of them?

.
No.

Semi automatic / automatic guns from memory.
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Old 02-27-2012, 04:26 PM   #216
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How about overall violence? Honest question, how are overall violence stats compared to the US?

.
I don't know. Look it up. In the meantime i have a question for you.

Should we make grenades easy to get? Why not, it won't result in more grenade violence?
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Old 02-27-2012, 04:26 PM   #217
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http://www.ehow.com/info_8115731_rea...le-ignore.html
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Old 02-27-2012, 04:26 PM   #218
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Obviously there are no reliable gun stats from Mexico - i seriously doubt the cartels are reporting their container loads of small arms.
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Old 02-27-2012, 04:26 PM   #219
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Here, we have one group of people talking with facts proving that more guns = more gun crime,
wow thats deep, its almost like the politicians saying downloaders outnumber uploaders...

ummm, duh?

More trains = more train crashes too.
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Old 02-27-2012, 04:27 PM   #220
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It's a funny thread. Most arguments on GFY have two sides of people both talking out of their arses.

Here, we have one group of people talking with facts proving that more guns = more gun crime, and other people just saying "nyaah nyaah nyaah I can't here you".

Funny stuff.

God bless the NRA!
Actually, many of us are saying that we don't care and it is still our right either way. Stupid people are stupid people. Don't touch my guns.

Yes, that makes me a stupid American hick... who doesn't own guns but fully supports the right to do so.
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Old 02-27-2012, 04:27 PM   #221
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Originally Posted by DamianJ View Post
It's a funny thread. Most arguments on GFY have two sides of people both talking out of their arses.

Here, we have one group of people talking with facts proving that more guns = more gun crime, and other people just saying "nyaah nyaah nyaah I can't here you".

Funny stuff.

God bless the NRA!
So why in Mexico there are less guns per capita than the U.S., is the per capita gun homicide rate higher in Mexico?

This means less guns DOES NOT equal less violence.
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Old 02-27-2012, 04:28 PM   #222
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Im normally not a gambling man, but im willing to bet, the number of horse carrriage deaths are DOWN since we switched to the automobile,... but then.... damn auto deaths are up.

see how that works?

Did any of you ever take a statistics class? LOL
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Old 02-27-2012, 04:28 PM   #223
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Interesting. Mexico has only 15 guns per 100 people. And US 88 per 100. But the Firearm homicides per capita is higher in Mexico.



Interesting numbers for sure. Thanks for digging that up.

Cue the non-Americans to tell you those numbers are wrong. They have to be.
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Old 02-27-2012, 04:29 PM   #224
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Still it doesn't change the fact that there are way less guns per 1000 people in Holland with results in way less gun violence. Something that is still really fucking hard to understand for hicks like you.
It wouldn't have anything to do with the fact that you're trying to compare a nation like the United States, to the extent that it can be glossed over as a singular entity, with a population of 314 million; to a nation like The Netherlands, to the extent that it can be glossed over as a singular entity, with a population of 14 million?
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Old 02-27-2012, 04:29 PM   #225
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...ted_death_rate

amazing how you get 10 3rd world shitcountries and then right after that the US hahaha

All these countries have shitloads of guns.
But ofcourse that's totally not related to the fact that they are the countries with the most gun violence.

Toooootally not related because more guns = not more gun violence, as we all know
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Old 02-27-2012, 04:31 PM   #226
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Interesting how Saudi Arabia has a high gun per capita rate. But doesn't even show on the gun homicides per capita rankings...
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Old 02-27-2012, 04:31 PM   #227
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It wouldn't have anything to do with the fact that you're trying to compare a nation like the United States, to the extent that it can be glossed over as a singular entity, with a population of 314 million; to a nation like The Netherlands, to the extent that it can be glossed over as a singular entity, with a population of 14 million?
Jesus! Are you fucking serious?
Do you know what per 1000 means?

Holy shit..

I'm not even gonna explains this.

The stupidity here is just scary.

Omg....

This is bad.
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Old 02-27-2012, 04:32 PM   #228
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Fuck man. Seriously? We can't compare Holland to the US because Holland is smaller?

Unbelievable.
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Old 02-27-2012, 04:32 PM   #229
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Interesting how Saudi Arabia has a high gun per capita rate. But doesn't even show on the gun homicides per capita rankings...
shhhh, those are facts.
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Old 02-27-2012, 04:33 PM   #230
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So why in Mexico there are less guns per capita than the U.S., is the per capita gun homicide rate higher in Mexico?

This means less guns DOES NOT equal less violence.
because mexico is a lawless shithole. compare the US to japan or canada.
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Old 02-27-2012, 04:35 PM   #231
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shhhh, those are facts.
Oh that suddenly is a fact but showing that every shithole country (and the US) has more guns and more gun violence is quitely ignored. But when you can find one country where it's different than you all start crying about facts.

Pathetic fucking rednecks.
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Old 02-27-2012, 04:35 PM   #232
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How about overall violence? Honest question, how are overall violence stats compared to the US?

.
Netherlands;

Variable Amount/description Rank
Crime > Assaults 44,129 [14th of 58]
Crime > Car thefts (per capita) 2.33559 per 1,000 people [15th of 55]
Crime > Drug offences 47 per 100,000 people [20th of 36]
Crime > Illicit drugs
major European producer of ecstasy, illicit amphetamines, and other synthetic drugs; important gateway for cocaine, heroin, and hashish entering Europe; major source of US-bound ecstasy; large financial sector vulnerable to money laundering
Crime > Murders 183 [40th of 63]
Crime > Murders (per capita) 0.0111538 per 1,000 people [51st of 62]
Crime > Rapes 1,648 [20th of 66]
Crime > Rapes (per capita) 0.100445 per 1,000 people [22nd of 65]
Crime > Total crimes 1,305,640 [14th of 61]
Crime > Total crimes (per capita) 79.5779 per 1,000 people


USA;

Variable Amount/description Rank
Crime > Assaults 2,238,480 [1st of 58]
Crime > Car thefts (per capita) 3.8795 per 1,000 people [9th of 55]
Crime > Murders 12,658 [6th of 63]
Crime > Murders (per capita) 0.042802 per 1,000 people [24th of 62]
Crime > Murders with firearms 8,259 [4th of 32]
Crime > Murders with firearms (per capita) 0.0279271 per 1,000 people [8th of 32]
Crime > Rapes 89,110 [1st of 66]
Crime > Rapes (per capita) 0.301318 per 1,000 people [9th of 65]
Crime > Total crimes 23,677,800 [1st of 61]
Crime > Total crimes (per capita) 80.0645 per 1,000 people [8th of 60]

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cr...ers-per-capita
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Old 02-27-2012, 04:36 PM   #233
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Netherlands;

Variable Amount/description Rank
Crime > Assaults 44,129 [14th of 58]
Crime > Car thefts (per capita) 2.33559 per 1,000 people [15th of 55]
Crime > Drug offences 47 per 100,000 people [20th of 36]
Crime > Illicit drugs
major European producer of ecstasy, illicit amphetamines, and other synthetic drugs; important gateway for cocaine, heroin, and hashish entering Europe; major source of US-bound ecstasy; large financial sector vulnerable to money laundering
Crime > Murders 183 [40th of 63]
Crime > Murders (per capita) 0.0111538 per 1,000 people [51st of 62]
Crime > Rapes 1,648 [20th of 66]
Crime > Rapes (per capita) 0.100445 per 1,000 people [22nd of 65]
Crime > Total crimes 1,305,640 [14th of 61]
Crime > Total crimes (per capita) 79.5779 per 1,000 people


USA;

Variable Amount/description Rank
Crime > Assaults 2,238,480 [1st of 58]
Crime > Car thefts (per capita) 3.8795 per 1,000 people [9th of 55]
Crime > Murders 12,658 [6th of 63]
Crime > Murders (per capita) 0.042802 per 1,000 people [24th of 62]
Crime > Murders with firearms 8,259 [4th of 32]
Crime > Murders with firearms (per capita) 0.0279271 per 1,000 people [8th of 32]
Crime > Rapes 89,110 [1st of 66]
Crime > Rapes (per capita) 0.301318 per 1,000 people [9th of 65]
Crime > Total crimes 23,677,800 [1st of 61]
Crime > Total crimes (per capita) 80.0645 per 1,000 people [8th of 60]

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cr...ers-per-capita
That's weird? With all those guns criminals are afraid to commit crimes in the US right? That's what i keep reading here. Still there is more criminality in general than in Holland.
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Old 02-27-2012, 04:38 PM   #234
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But anyway, we can't compare Holland to the US because there are less people living in Holland
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Old 02-27-2012, 04:39 PM   #235
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I'd like to see if someone tries to come in and rob your home with a gun, and all you have is a knife or baseball bat. Since guns are illegal and you can't own one, but the criminal (who will get a hold of anyway no matter what) does.
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Old 02-27-2012, 04:39 PM   #236
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So why in Mexico there are less guns per capita than the U.S., is the per capita gun homicide rate higher in Mexico?

This means less guns DOES NOT equal less violence.
Another way to look at those facts is that gun ownership is high in both countries and so are gun related deaths.

Also comparing US to Mexico ?

How about comparing the US with a close first world neighbour like umm hmmm let me think - Canada?

Canada 30.8 - rank 13
US 88.8 - rank 1

Congratulations you guys are FIRST
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Old 02-27-2012, 04:40 PM   #237
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I'd like to see if someone tries to come in and rob your home with a gun, and all you have is a knife or baseball bat...
Yeah thank god in your country where every other person has a gun things are way more safe.

Because we all know it's way more safer if every hick around you owns a gun instead of a few criminals who you most likely will never run into in your life.
Makes perfect sense*





*If you are a dumb fucking redneck idiot
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Old 02-27-2012, 04:41 PM   #238
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Yes, everyone in the US is a redneck hick living in the hills.
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Old 02-27-2012, 04:42 PM   #239
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Well, i'm done here. I just want you hillbillies to know that i approve of your gun law.
If it's up to me they should make guns and all other weapons completely legal in your country. Really, that would make my day.
I'm really happy for you guys it's so easy for every idiot to own a gun. I mean this.
Goodnight my responsible gun owning friends!
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Old 02-27-2012, 04:43 PM   #240
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Yes, everyone in the US is a redneck hick living in the hills.
This is true. I'm not sure why we deny this, it's something we should be proud of.

Rednecks for life.
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Old 02-27-2012, 04:43 PM   #241
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I'd like to see if someone tries to come in and rob your home with a gun, and all you have is a knife or baseball bat. Since guns are illegal and you can't own one, but the criminal (who will get a hold of anyway no matter what) does.
Such a valid point.

I can't count the number of times i've had to chase off an intruder with a butter knife.

Wish Is hads mes as guns tos shootss dose crimunarls
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Old 02-27-2012, 04:44 PM   #242
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But anyway, we can't compare Holland to the US because there are less people living in Holland
No, your can't. Any physicist could tell you that very big things do not behave in the same fashion as very small things, even if they share properties. Nations are not dissimilar. As the number of citizens rises, complexity rises. Complexity rises still further for the addition of multiple cultures, poverty issues and a whole host of other differences between The U.S. and Holland.
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Old 02-27-2012, 04:44 PM   #243
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Im normally not a gambling man, but im willing to bet, the number of horse carrriage deaths are DOWN since we switched to the automobile,... but then.... damn auto deaths are up.

see how that works?

Did any of you ever take a statistics class? LOL
Did you know cities with the most casinos have the most gambling?
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Old 02-27-2012, 04:47 PM   #244
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Netherlands;

Variable Amount/description Rank
Crime > Assaults 44,129 [14th of 58]
Crime > Car thefts (per capita) 2.33559 per 1,000 people [15th of 55]
Crime > Drug offences 47 per 100,000 people [20th of 36]
Crime > Illicit drugs
major European producer of ecstasy, illicit amphetamines, and other synthetic drugs; important gateway for cocaine, heroin, and hashish entering Europe; major source of US-bound ecstasy; large financial sector vulnerable to money laundering
Crime > Murders 183 [40th of 63]
Crime > Murders (per capita) 0.0111538 per 1,000 people [51st of 62]
Crime > Rapes 1,648 [20th of 66]
Crime > Rapes (per capita) 0.100445 per 1,000 people [22nd of 65]
Crime > Total crimes 1,305,640 [14th of 61]
Crime > Total crimes (per capita) 79.5779 per 1,000 people


USA;

Variable Amount/description Rank
Crime > Assaults 2,238,480 [1st of 58]
Crime > Car thefts (per capita) 3.8795 per 1,000 people [9th of 55]
Crime > Murders 12,658 [6th of 63]
Crime > Murders (per capita) 0.042802 per 1,000 people [24th of 62]
Crime > Murders with firearms 8,259 [4th of 32]
Crime > Murders with firearms (per capita) 0.0279271 per 1,000 people [8th of 32]
Crime > Rapes 89,110 [1st of 66]
Crime > Rapes (per capita) 0.301318 per 1,000 people [9th of 65]
Crime > Total crimes 23,677,800 [1st of 61]
Crime > Total crimes (per capita) 80.0645 per 1,000 people [8th of 60]

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cr...ers-per-capita
Thanks, for looking that up.

Seems we need to drop marijuana laws too, chill out the population.


.
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Old 02-27-2012, 04:48 PM   #245
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How about looking at why someone would want to commit a crime against someone else..?
How about looking at if there were less guns, less people would be shot?
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Old 02-27-2012, 04:49 PM   #246
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Such a valid point.

I can't count the number of times i've had to chase off an intruder with a butter knife.

Wish Is hads mes as guns tos shootss dose crimunarls
Shit happens. I hope it never happens to you, cause you're fucked if it does.


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Originally Posted by georgeyw View Post
Another way to look at those facts is that gun ownership is high in both countries and so are gun related deaths.

Also comparing US to Mexico ?

How about comparing the US with a close first world neighbour like umm hmmm let me think - Canada?

Canada 30.8 - rank 13
US 88.8 - rank 1

Congratulations you guys are FIRST
Why does it matter what country to compare it against? The argument is more guns equals more gun related deaths. Which isn't the case in Mexico.


Here is an interesting read on the worlds worst serial killers. None of them used firearms.

Read: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/495477.stm

Non-Americans who know everything about US gun culture, care to explain how this is possible?
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Old 02-27-2012, 04:50 PM   #247
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Congratulations you guys are FIRST
They also win on FATTEST too!

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/he...health-obesity

GO USA!
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Old 02-27-2012, 04:50 PM   #248
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How about looking at if there were less guns, less people would be shot?
If there were less shoe stores, less people would have shoes.
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Old 02-27-2012, 04:51 PM   #249
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Thanks, for looking that up.

Seems we need to drop marijuana laws too, chill out the population.


.
haha

This is one thing I have never understood about the US.

Marijuana is illegal yet guns are seen as an essential household item.

BTW - I love visiting the US, no problem with the people at all from my experience, simply do not get the love for guns.
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Old 02-27-2012, 04:52 PM   #250
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They also win on FATTEST too!

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/he...health-obesity

GO USA!
We also have the best teeth. Sorry England.
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