More money than ever befor is expected to be spent

[theking]

...for Halloween. An expected seven billion dollars...and yet the economy is supposed to be in dire straits...with people suffering from loss of jobs and low paying jobs.

No doubt there has been a shift...but for Americans to be able to spend seven billion dollars on a stupid (in my opinion) holiday like Halloween should show that things are not as bad as the media likes to put in our face on a daily basis.

[vdbucks]

Originally Posted by theking

...for Halloween. An expected seven billion dollars...and yet the economy is supposed to be in dire straits...with people suffering from loss of jobs and low paying jobs.

No doubt there has been a shift...but for Americans to be able to spend seven billion dollars on a stupid (in my opinion) holiday like Halloween should show that things are not as bad as the media likes to put in our face on a daily basis.

$7 billion dollars... such a large amount.. a whopping ~$23 average spent per person. So basically, you're under the impression that because people can afford to spend ~ $23 for halloween that the economy is somehow ok?

[DWB]

Americans like to live beyond their means. I'd bet a lot of that seven billion dollars was charged.

[epitome]

Originally Posted by vdbucks

$7 billion dollars... such a large amount.. a whopping ~$23 average spent per person. So basically, you're under the impression that because people can afford to spend ~ $23 for halloween that the economy is somehow ok?

That is what I was wondering.

In the store I noticed that the plastic pumpkins kids carry around was selling for $1 but a plain ol' plastic bowl only twice as large for people to put candy in to distribute was selling for $10. I am still trying to figure out how 2x the amount of plastic was selling for 10x as much.

If everybody in America bought two plastic bowls there goes the entire $7 billion.

[slapass]

Read the news, the recession is over and has been for a while. If you are still out of a job it is because you are unskilled.

[vdbucks]

Originally Posted by epitome

That is what I was wondering.

In the store I noticed that the plastic pumpkins kids carry around was selling for $1 but a plain ol' plastic bowl only twice as large for people to put candy in to distribute was selling for $10. I am still trying to figure out how 2x the amount of plastic was selling for 10x as much.

If everybody in America bought two plastic bowls there goes the entire $7 billion.

It's funny how things are put into perspective when looking at them realistically as opposed to using a really big number to try (and fail) to prove a point ^^

[vdbucks]

Originally Posted by slapass

Read the news, the recession is over and has been for a while. If you are still out of a job it is because you are unskilled.

So nearly 30 million people are out of work because they are "unskilled"?

Man, when did people become so jaded?

[theking]

Originally Posted by vdbucks

$7 billion dollars... such a large amount.. a whopping ~$23 average spent per person. So basically, you're under the impression that because people can afford to spend ~ $23 for halloween that the economy is somehow ok?

No matter what the median amount is...more money than ever before...in our history...is expected to be spent for Halloween. BTW your numbers are skewed as only 7 out of 10 people celebrate Halloween.

[pornguy]

Originally Posted by slapass

Read the news, the recession is over and has been for a while. If you are still out of a job it is because you are unskilled.

Or unwilling. Lots of the people complaining about work are not willing to take a job that is Less than what they had. So they stay unemployed.

[vdbucks]

Originally Posted by theking

No matter what the median amount is...more money than ever before...in our history...is expected to be spent for Halloween. BTW your numbers are skewed as only 7 out of 10 people celebrate Halloween.

And umm.. there are also more people in the US than ever before. See how that works? And the numbers aren't skewed at all.. no matter how you try to rearrange the numbers, you still fail to prove a point... 7 out of 10 people averages out to a whopping $32 per person spent... such an amazing amount that just proves the recession is over!

Stop believing everything you see on Fox News lol

[porno jew]

Originally Posted by pornguy

Or unwilling. Lots of the people complaining about work are not willing to take a job that is Less than what they had. So they stay unemployed.

yes that's when mcdonald's and wal-mart do job and hiring fairs they are lined up around the block for days. idiot.

[theking]

Originally Posted by vdbucks

And umm.. there are also more people in the US than ever before. See how that works? And the numbers aren't skewed at all.. no matter how you try to rearrange the numbers, you still fail to prove a point...

The point is that when the unemployment rate was lower and people had higher paying jobs they spent less on Halloween than they are expected to spend with a high unemployment rate and lower paying jobs. The point is people in general apparently are not as bad off as the media portrays on a daily basis.

[Failed]

Originally Posted by vdbucks

And umm.. there are also more people in the US than ever before. See how that works? And the numbers aren't skewed at all.. no matter how you try to rearrange the numbers, you still fail to prove a point... 7 out of 10 people averages out to a whopping $32 per person spent... such an amazing amount that just proves the recession is over!

Stop believing everything you see on Fox News lol

Exactly what I was going to say. More people = more money being spent. This is population increase, not an increase in spending.

Also, this is a holiday for the children. It's likely that people did spend a little more on this holiday, as they will for Christmas. This should not, and frankly could not, be used to judge the health of our economy.

[vdbucks]

Originally Posted by theking

The point is that when the unemployment rate was lower and people had higher paying jobs they spent less on Halloween than they are expected to spend with a high unemployment rate and lower paying jobs. The point is people in general apparently are not as bad off as the media portrays on a daily basis.

7 out of 10 people averages out to a whopping $32 per person spent... such an amazing amount that just proves the recession is over!

Stop believing everything you see on Fox News lol

[96ukssob]

here is a true story...

at a party this weekend and talking to a cousin-in-laws friend. she was complaining about how they have no money and her husband can't find a job, they have their heat set to 68 degrees, blah blah blah.

then she says "i cant believe how expensive Halloween costumes got." she goes on to tell me that her and her husband spent over $300 on costumes between them (for two nights), their two kids and their dog!

just goes to show why some people are so poor

[vdbucks]

Originally Posted by bossku69

here is a true story...

at a party this weekend and talking to a cousin-in-laws friend. she was complaining about how they have no money and her husband can't find a job, they have their heat set to 68 degrees, blah blah blah.

then she says "i cant believe how expensive Halloween costumes got." she goes on to tell me that her and her husband spent over $300 on costumes between them (for two nights), their two kids and their dog!

just goes to show why some people are so poor

Now this is something we can work with... because it's been proven that people spend beyond their means and put themselves deeper in debt. Been that way since the beginning of currency really.

And as someone posted above.. I can't imagine how many people simply charged the stuff they bought..

Doesn't say a thing as to the state of the current economy though.

But at least 7 billion sounds like a really big number that people can use to try and prove that everything is A OK in the US...

[theking]

Originally Posted by vdbucks

7 out of 10 people averages out to a whopping $32 per person spent... such an amazing amount that just proves the recession is over!

Stop believing everything you see on Fox News lol

A recession is when the economy has negative growth for two quarters in a row. The economy has had positive growth for the past several years. High unemployment does not define a recession. BTW...it is my opinion that the new unemployment numbers will now be the norm with minor fluctuations....just as in the past 4 or 5 percent was the norm.

[Failed]

Originally Posted by bossku69

here is a true story...

at a party this weekend and talking to a cousin-in-laws friend. she was complaining about how they have no money and her husband can't find a job, they have their heat set to 68 degrees, blah blah blah.

then she says "i cant believe how expensive Halloween costumes got." she goes on to tell me that her and her husband spent over $300 on costumes between them (for two nights), their two kids and their dog!

just goes to show why some people are so poor

I see this as a boost in morale. When you're cutting back on everything, and you can't provide even your own kids with the things you would like, it's nice to save up for the few occasions, such as Halloween and Christmas where you and your kids can have a good time and feel like everyone else.

What would be wrong with cutting back on the heat, and other things to give your kids something special twice a year and how would that go to show why some people are poor?

[vdbucks]

Originally Posted by theking

A recession is when the economy has negative growth for two quarters in a row. The economy has had positive growth for the past several years. High unemployment does not define a recession. BTW...it is my opinion that the new unemployment numbers will now be the norm with minor fluctuations....just as in the past 4 or 5 percent was the norm.

Yes, the current numbers will probably be the norm... because people like you who are so skewed by big numbers accept things the way they are.

[Rochard]

We bought about $40 in candy. Then this weekend my wife comes home with a huge box of candy. She's involved in a sports league and one of her jobs is running the snack bar, and at the end of the season everything that is left over gets given away. Last football game was Saturday, so we have a ton of food and candy now...

Originally Posted by bossku69

here is a true story...

at a party this weekend and talking to a cousin-in-laws friend. she was complaining about how they have no money and her husband can't find a job, they have their heat set to 68 degrees, blah blah blah.

then she says "i cant believe how expensive Halloween costumes got." she goes on to tell me that her and her husband spent over $300 on costumes between them (for two nights), their two kids and their dog!

just goes to show why some people are so poor

But this has always been the case. You see it the most when you drive through an apartment complex. You see people renting crappy apartments, but driving brand new BMWs and Mercedes. I love it how people say they are broke but yet ran out last week to get a the new iPhone.

[Si]

What % of that went to the Chinese? Makers of most of the poor quality items these people were probably buying.

[raymor]

"it is expected that (more) Americans will spend more money," you say. It's also expected, by some, that any day now Obama will be proved to be not a natural born citizen, that he will release his full communist dictatorship plan, and that martian invaders will be revealed.

"It is expected." By whom? Your next door neighbor?
Is the claim of "more" adjusted for inflation? If not, even though there are MORE people than ever before, they may actually spend LESS, and almost certainly less per capita.

Of course none of this will probably make sense to someone who still believes that more spending we can't afford means the problem is solved. Overspending, particularly on housing, is what CAUSED this mess. If it were true that Americans were, on average, doing more pointless spending, that would indicate we haven't learned anything and it's going to get worse.

[Caligari]

Originally Posted by theking

...for Halloween. An expected seven billion dollars...and yet the economy is supposed to be in dire straits...with people suffering from loss of jobs and low paying jobs.

No doubt there has been a shift...but for Americans to be able to spend seven billion dollars on a stupid (in my opinion) holiday like Halloween should show that things are not as bad as the media likes to put in our face on a daily basis.

Go back to sleep, it will all be over soon.

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by vdbucks

So nearly 30 million people are out of work because they are "unskilled"?

Man, when did people become so jaded?

It could be those in work are earning more. Or low paying jobs going out of the country. Doesn't mean the recession is till on.

Mind you, when the Euro Tsunami hits. You'll think the last recession was a cake walk.

[bronco67]

I was actually listening to an explanation of the numbers yesterday on CNN...

The fact that so much is being spent on Halloween is actually a sign of HOW BAD THE RECESSION IS.

Sounds counter-intuitive, but the lady was saying that an analysis of spending during holidays always indicated that Halloween spending goes up when the economy goes down. Her theory is that if people need to relax and enjoy themselves with a holiday, Halloween is an easy one because it's just a quick, cheap one day holiday with no gift buying.

Christmas is the opposite. Makes sense to me.

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by Si

What % of that went to the Chinese? Makers of most of the poor quality items these people were probably buying.

Ask the Chinese if the recession s over. And they'll reply.

"There was a recession?"

[vdbucks]

Originally Posted by raymor

"it is expected that (more) Americans will spend more money," you say. It's also expected, by some, that any day now Obama will be proved to be not a natural born citizen, that he will release his full communist dictatorship plan, and that martian invaders will be revealed.

"It is expected." By whom? Your next door neighbor?
Is the claim of "more" adjusted for inflation? If not, even though there are MORE people than ever before, they may actually spend LESS, and almost certainly less per capita.

Of course none of this will probably make sense to someone who still believes that more spending we can't afford means the problem is solved. Over spending, particularly on housing, is what CAUSED this mess. If it were true that Americans were, on average, doing more pointless spending, that would indicate we haven't learned anything and it's going to get worse.

And yet, you're point is being skewed by the fact that this $32 on average spending was due to a holiday...

And overspending will always occur.. so long as the banks are can continue operating as they have been.. meaning, giving lines of credit to people who can't afford it... much like they did with the housing scandal.

[Imortyl Pussycat]

i think what's happened here is that we (Americans) have cut back in so many other areas for our kids ie, vacations, theme parks, movie theater , clothing allowances etc. that most of us are trying to give a little extra for something our kids love. Halloween is huge here..HUGE..for whatever reason.

[stocktrader23]

Originally Posted by vdbucks

$7 billion dollars... such a large amount.. a whopping ~$23 average spent per person. So basically, you're under the impression that because people can afford to spend ~ $23 for halloween that the economy is somehow ok?

There are more people every year so things always increase in raw dollars anyhow.

[vdbucks]

Originally Posted by Imortyl Pussycat

i think what's happened here is that we (Americans) have cut back in so many other areas for our kids ie, vacations, theme parks, movie theater , clothing allowances etc. that most of us are trying to give a little extra for something our kids love. Halloween is huge here..HUGE..for whatever reason.

It's huge for kids and families because it's a time they can simply let go for a night.. have some fun with everyone else in their neighborhoods and generally try to make their kids happier, even if temporarily. Pretty much the same thing with xmas.

[Sly]

Originally Posted by bossku69

here is a true story...

at a party this weekend and talking to a cousin-in-laws friend. she was complaining about how they have no money and her husband can't find a job, they have their heat set to 68 degrees, blah blah blah.

then she says "i cant believe how expensive Halloween costumes got." she goes on to tell me that her and her husband spent over $300 on costumes between them (for two nights), their two kids and their dog!

just goes to show why some people are so poor

We made our costumes when we were kids. That was during the glory days of the 90s.

[bronco67]

Originally Posted by slapass

Read the news, the recession is over and has been for a while. If you are still out of a job it is because you are unskilled.

has nothing to do with being unskilled. It's about the type of work that exists now. We've gone from a country that creates and manufactures, to a country that buys and sells.

[porno jew]

dropping 20-40 bucks on a once a year holiday for the kids somehow means the economy has recovered?

parents will always make a way for their kids to have some kind of holiday, no matter how meager. means nothing.

fuck some of you are simple.

[stocktrader23]

Originally Posted by theking

A recession is when the economy has negative growth for two quarters in a row. The economy has had positive growth for the past several years. High unemployment does not define a recession. BTW...it is my opinion that the new unemployment numbers will now be the norm with minor fluctuations....just as in the past 4 or 5 percent was the norm.

Economic growth is not in dispute but it's WHO IT WENT TO THAT MATTERS.

"CBO study: In the past 30 years nearly all income growth has gone to the top 1%. The bottom 80%'s share fell accross the board."

http://www.cbo.gov/doc.cfm?index=12485



I knew your true colors would show soon enough, same old shit from the same old moron. You start out like you are the voice of reason and degenerate into right wing talking points in a matter of hours / days regardless of topic.

[vdbucks]

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

It could be those in work are earning more. Or low paying jobs going out of the country. Doesn't mean the recession is till on.

Mind you, when the Euro Tsunami hits. You'll think the last recession was a cake walk.

I have no doubt the worst has yet to come... and the longer we (meaning our government and it's sheeple) keep putting nothing but bandaids on the the severed artery that is our economic state, then the worse it'll be.

Consider this.. the housing market crash was only a part of it... what will people do when the entire credit system crashes... people can only accrue so much 'plastic' debt before the whole system falls. But what will be done when it happens... another bank bailout? probably

[theking]

Originally Posted by stocktrader23

Economic growth is not in dispute but it's WHO IT WENT TO THAT MATTERS.

"CBO study: In the past 30 years nearly all income growth has gone to the top 1%. The bottom 80%'s share fell accross the board."

http://www.cbo.gov/doc.cfm?index=12485



I knew your true colors would show soon enough, same old shit from the same old moron. You start out like you are the voice of reason and degenerate into right wing talking points in a matter of hours / days regardless of topic.

I am not a right winger per se and I never have been. I am not a left winger per se and I have never been. I am an Independent and my politics are middle of the road with a modicum of liberal leaning.

[Shotsie]

Originally Posted by theking

A recession is when the economy has negative growth for two quarters in a row. The economy has had positive growth for the past several years. High unemployment does not define a recession. BTW...it is my opinion that the new unemployment numbers will now be the norm with minor fluctuations....just as in the past 4 or 5 percent was the norm.

GDP is a pretty shitty measurement of economic well-being. It measures the output of the economy, but not some of the things that matter most, such as jobs, income and wealth. GDP is a quarterly accounting gimmick that may not be an accurate reflection of the economic reality. It includes inventory stockpiling and export growth, things that don't really increase the living standards of Americans. In other words, we made a little bit more stuff, but it went into warehouses and onto ships, not into our homes and workplaces.


Most economists define a recession as a significant decline in economic activity spread across the economy, lasting more than a few months, and by that definition we are certainly in a recession. GDP is a part of it, but so is job growth, income growth, industrial output and business sales. Basically, if jobs are plentiful, then the economy is doing OK. If jobs are scarce, the economy is poor. Anybody that tries to tell you that we are not in a recession is either a liar, a fool, or severely misinformed, possibly a combination of all three.

[Scott McD]

Spending money on halloween isn't as bad as the idiotic "celebration" we have over here next week.

Guy Fawkes. Bonfire Night. Whatever you want to call it.

People spend a fucking fortune on fireworks. All you hear about after it is the amount of animals killed, and people injured etc. It's about time this ridiculous "celebration" was stopped...

[Rochard]

Originally Posted by stocktrader23

Economic growth is not in dispute but it's WHO IT WENT TO THAT MATTERS.

"CBO study: In the past 30 years nearly all income growth has gone to the top 1%. The bottom 80%'s share fell accross the board."

http://www.cbo.gov/doc.cfm?index=12485



I knew your true colors would show soon enough, same old shit from the same old moron. You start out like you are the voice of reason and degenerate into right wing talking points in a matter of hours / days regardless of topic.

What the fuck kind of bullshit you ram down our throats? You say nearly all income growth has gone to the top 1%, but from the same exact page you linked to it says...

CBO finds that, between 1979 and 2007, income grew by:

275 percent for the top 1 percent of households,
65 percent for the next 19 percent,
Just under 40 percent for the next 60 percent, and
18 percent for the bottom 20 percent.

So, um, pretty much everyone grew, including the bottom twenty percent?

There is nothing that I hate more than people who take stats and twist them into their version of the truth.

[stocktrader23]

Originally Posted by Rochard

What the fuck kind of bullshit you ram down our throats? You say nearly all income growth has gone to the top 1%, but from the same exact page you linked to it says...

So, um, pretty much everyone grew, including the bottom twenty percent?

There is nothing that I hate more than people who take stats and twist them into their version of the truth.

I'm getting ready to take the kids out for Halloween so I can't write you a damn novel to help you understand this. I am going to say this though.

First of all, we are SUPPOSED to see increases in income as the economy grows. It's built into the system. If it weren't the average American couldn't afford to eat thanks to inflation.

And yes, I said nearly all income growth has gone to the top 1% and I meant it. What seems to have thrown you off is that they used this in % form and not actual dollars.

If someone was making $10,000,000 per year in 1970 and kept pace with the others in their bracket they would be making $37,500,000 in 2007.

A person making $12,000 in 1970 (bottom 20%) and saw an 18% increase in earnings by 2007 they would be making $14,160 per year by 2007. Do you have any idea how many variables go into that increase? For instance, how many times was minimum wage increased in the last 27 years?

You can't compare gaining 18% of your pissy ass check to someone making 275% more of the millions they already make. The amount of dollars difference is infinitely more.

I posted a chart to a % of income overall. If it had stayed on the same track from previous decades the average household income would look like this.



And what's even worse is the fact that real wages and salaries have actually decreased over the last few years.

http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/20...le-recovery/#h[]

According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, average real hourly earnings for all employees actually declined by 1.1 percent from June 2009, when the recovery began, to May 2011, the month for which the most recent earnings numbers are available.

And more about income growth going to the rich.

In their newly released study, the Northeastern economists found that since the recovery began in June 2009 following a deep 18-month recession, ?corporate profits captured 88 percent of the growth in real national income while aggregate wages and salaries accounted for only slightly more than 1 percent? of that growth.

You can argue and fight and accuse me of twisting numbers that you don't understand but it is clear and UNDISPUTED that the middle class and poor are taking an ass whooping and have been for some time. The rich are doing just fine, thriving in fact. If something doesn't change soon it is going to be devastating to the United States and could get to the point that it would be decades before you are able to do simple shit like hop online and charge people for porn subscriptions. They just won't have the money.

[theking]

It is being reported that the Halloween spending will be a median of $72.00 per family.

[vdbucks]

Originally Posted by theking

It is being reported that the Halloween spending will be a median of $72.00 per family.

And once again.. how does that even begin to prove the economy is ok? What, because families (ie households) dropped less than $100 on average for a [kids] holiday?

Why are you so jaded?

[theking]

Originally Posted by vdbucks

And once again.. how does that even begin to prove the economy is ok? What, because families (ie households) dropped less than $100 on average for a [kids] holiday?

Why are you so jaded?

Please quote me where I have ever stated that the "economy is ok"....sport. You cannot because I have not "ever" made such a statement.

[SuckOnThis]

One thing no one has mentioned is there are more people on food stamps than ever before (15% are now on food stamps), and I believe you can buy candy with them. Much easier to buy candy when you're not actually paying for it.

[vdbucks]

Originally Posted by theking

Please quote me where I have ever stated that the "economy is ok"....sport. You cannot because I have not "ever" made such a statement.

You started this entire thread under the premise that because Americans as a whole spent 7 bil on a holiday that somehow the economy isn't as bad as people make it out to be.. then you continue on to defend the notion that the economy is ok throughout all of your posts in this thread... sport

[theking]

Originally Posted by vdbucks

You started this entire thread under the premise that because Americans as a whole spent 7 bil on a holiday that somehow the economy isn't as bad as people make it out to be.. then you continue on to defend the notion that the economy is ok throughout all of your posts in this thread... sport

I did not say people...I said as bad as the media makes it out to be. I have not defended anything in this thread. You are reading into my posts...your thoughts not mine.

I have stated in multiple threads that I do not think the economy is OK. I have stated that in my opinion the U.S. has seen its best days and is on the decline and a major...major...shift is going to take place within the next ten years or so.

The new norm is going to be higher unemployment rates than in the past which was normally around 4 or 5 percent...lower paying jobs...and a lesser standard of living...and this will be at the best...of course just my opinion.

None of it effects me or will effect me to any significant extent.

[kane]

I just read an article that spending on home video entertainment is up for the first time since 2008.

I think a lot of it has to do with the fact that people are spending money more wisely right now. If I take the girlfriend out to dinner and a movie I can easily drop $50-$75 depending on where we eat. But I can get a Netflix movie and make something at home for very little.

I think the Halloween is the same thing. Families can afford to spend $20-$30 on something like this that the whole family can be involved in and have fun with. They just aren't doing other, bigger, things.

[Tempest]

National Retail Federation said that shoppers planned to spend/spent

2011 - $72 each
2010 - $66
2009 - $56
2008 - $67
2007 - $65

A record-setting 70% of Americans (68.5%) planned to celebrate Halloween in 2011, up from 64% in 2010.

Involvement in other Halloween activities was up when compared to last year. More planned to get a costume for themselves (43.9% vs. 40.1% in 2010), go to a party (34.3% vs. 33.3%) or visit a haunted house (22.9% vs. 20.8%).

Despite this increase in spending, most consumers (87%) at least said they'd try to spend less. How? Some (16.6%) used last year's costume, more (18.9%) made their own costume and most (40.2%) promised to buy less candy. The state of the economy was driving this for nearly one-third of Halloween shoppers.

Seems that the increase in spending is because more are going to celebrate it this year than last year.

Frankly, I think people are just so tired about worrying about everything that they just want to have a good time. i.e. being fed up with watching every penny and needing to have some fun for a change.

[kane]

Originally Posted by Tempest

Seems that the increase in spending is because more are going to celebrate it this year than last year.

Frankly, I think people are just so tired about worrying about everything that they just want to have a good time. i.e. being fed up with watching every penny and needing to have some fun for a change.

There is a theory that this idea will help pull the economy back together. Eventually people will just get sick of watching every dollar and being afraid and they will start spending again.

My brother might be a decent example. His wife got fired from her job several months ago and has not found anything since. He had been stressing and worried and counting every penny, but the company he works for just got several big new jobs so he knows he had job security for a long time so on his way home he stopped and bought his daughter the new iPhone to surprise her. Five months ago he would have never done that. If her phone had broken back then she would have gotten something cheap as a replacement.

[Brujah]

I'm asking myself, why did I read a thread started by theking? After all these years, do I not know any better yet?