Our Position Regarding RedTube and Tube Sites
 

I've been in this business for 10 years. I'm sure that I'm one of the most outspoken webmasters around - I've never backed down from any conversation or topic. Me and my partner run our company like an open book. When a question about our company comes up, I am always more than happy to address it. I say this because yesterday our name was being tossed around with regards to RedTube. So here I am to comment on the situation, explain my feelings and answer any questions you may have regarding it.

As it was mentioned in another thread, RedTube is an affiliate of ours. RedTube came to us and asked to be an affiliate several weeks ago. I told them there are rules and these rules must be followed in order to get paid and remain in good standing with TwistysCash. With regards to our video here is what we asked of them:

- They could use 2 - 3 minute clips to promote Twistys.
- Banners and advertising in and around the clip must be for Twistys and Twistys only.
- We do NOT accept traffic from any links that have stolen content on them.

Now, we've kept a close eye on RedTube and so far they've been an ideal affiliate. They are doing what we ask and they have been very pleasant to deal with. They are following the rules that apply to all our affiliates.

Tube sites are notorious for content theft. Ok, point made. Now, I do not believe there is a single person on GFY that has more content theft problems than we do. Twistys is the biggest babes site on the web and along with this status comes the problem of people constantly ripping off our content. We know what is like to invest MILLIONS of dollars a year in to content only to see it being ripped off by various sites and have other individuals profiting from it. For the past 2 years I've seen our content on HUNDREDS of user boards and blogs - all without a single Twistys ad. Believe me, it's hell to see my content being paired up with AFF banners and banners to the most popular PPS adult sponsors.... but not Twistys. We have worked hard at protecting our content and it always feels like a losing battle. We've spent large amounts of money on lawyers fighting content theft and spent endless hours DMCAing websites. Here we are in 2008 and the situation is WORSE than ever. Year after year we sit back and continue to get ripped off with each new board, blog, and tube site that is born. This is why we are taking action. Action to attempt some theft control- to turn the tables in our favor at least SOME of the time.

Understand that our relationship with RedTube is very different from what AFF and other sponsors are doing. Why? Because of our rules. Again, Redtube is sending us traffic from pages that have our content & ads, side by side.

Here's something I want to share with you - it relates to how our industry is changing. Tube sites are indicative of HOW people surf for their porn today. Tube sites have changed surfing habits as well as consumer expectations because the word 'tube' is now synonymous with FREE (and user-driven videos.) As a result of this transition to tube sites, they are forcing all of us to work harder. They are forcing all of us to produce a better product and to be better at what we are doing. In an industry known for quick and easy money, the idea of having to work our asses off to make a quality product is a scary one. What's scarier is the idea that you might even have to change your business model to get with the times. The truth is, things are not going back to the way they were. The web is changing. As a result, the 'free sites' and other traditional means of traffic pooling we used to rely on, are slowly dying. With this in mind, we should not only be worrying about stolen content; rather, we should be focusing on building a higher quality product. Wouldn't you agree?

In much the same way Napster changed the music industry, Tube sites are changing the adult industry. Google is without a doubt the most powerful web company around. What is their company built on? It is built on providing nearly every product you can imagine, for FREE. Google is teaching everyone that the tools we used to pay for - the video, television, entertainment, maps, spreadsheets, mail etc. are all available on the Internet for FREE any time we want it and it's only a click away. I cannot think of any company that is pushing the fact that copyrights are non-existant online as much as Google is. Take a look at the start date for all the largest tube sites... You will notice that all of them start AFTER Google acquired YouTube.

Now take a look at the music industry over the past 8 years. They are much bigger and much more powerful than we ever were as an industry prior to this time. Despite this immense power, appeal, reach and frequency - the record industry is dead thanks to Napster and other file sharing sites. The record industry spent all its' time and energy the past few years trying to preserve the way it had always existed - high profit margins on products that were not always what the consumer wanted (ie $19.95 for a record, tape or CD that had 3 or 4 good songs). Their industry was forced to change when file sharing became big - they had to embrace the new landscape that has been presented and make the best of it (ie: iTunes @ 99 cents a song.) Nobody is getting rich off albums anymore, if anything it's just forcing artists to produce one hit song after another and NOT put out filler songs to make up an album. AND, on top of unique chart topping songs, they also have to be able to perform on stage too. If they can't entertain and perform live, they die before they even debut.

I believe a similar thing is happening in our industry. While I am 100% against tube sites using illegal/stolen content, you guys have to realize tube sites are a part of our industry right now (and the near future) whether you like it or not. They are here and happening now and surfers are flocking to them. With dying options for traffic, what choices do we really have for promotion? So while the situation is not perfect, we CAN group together and set some rules for these sites to follow. Until everything is policed and enforced by a higher order, adaptation is what we have to embrace in order to survive.

Interesting novella. Keep in mind you're not the only program who's content is stolen and re-sold. Tube sites are only part of that problem.

Thanks for summing up my thoughts on the suject :)

wtf you say
- We do NOT accept traffic from any links that have stolen content on them.
next sentence.
Now, we've kept a close eye on RedTube and so far they've been an ideal affiliate.

Ah let me get this straight, you know that they steal everyones content- and your not ok with that- ah but as long as they not stealing yours your ok with that too..........
so I guess your sentence should read.

- We do NOT accept traffic from any links that have stolen content OF OURS on them. If they have stolen content from others Fuck em

Much to tired to respond.

Two questions in mean time.

1. are you hosting the videos?
2. what are your average ratio's? (if you know ctr please also post average)

The links they send us traffic from are links that have Twistys content. They do not send us traffic from anywhere else on their site.

I don't understand whats so hard about protecting your content? Why not use DRM? Wouldn't that solve all this bullshit?? I hear stuff like oh the surfers hates it, they leave if they can't download the videos. You know what I say? FUCK the Surfer. If you have high quality exclusive content then will he really leave if he's a fan of your stuff? No he'll stay a member as long as he was going too anyway, then once he cancels his membership he gets no more access to your content. Cya wanker, want access again? Pay me. You spend millions on content and just leave it out in the open for anybody to come in and take it?? Doesn't make sense to me.:2 cents:

Shap very disappointing, you know as well as we do they are full of stolen content. Strike another one off the good list.

By giving them a way to make money your helping fund theft no better than AFF.

1. We are not hosting the videos.
2. I would never post an affiliate's signup ratio without permission. I would say over the past two months the average signup ratio from tube traffic is between 1:1500 and 1:3000. If RedTube is interested in posting his signup ratio that's entirely up to him.

One example I have been noticing is the old school LARGE TGP webmasters
allowing tube site behavior on there own sites...

One example

http://video.xnxx.com/?k=raven+riley

http://video.xnxx.com/video11036/rav..._fucks_outside

XNXX
Come on you telling me he doesn't know that
using full length raven riley content
then plastering all the AFF ads all over it with not one I repeat...
not one single link to us, is allowed or would ever be allowed?

I don't understand the industry or why the old guys that
made there living from this business for years is allowing this instead of fighting it themselves???

Tom

good points... enforced rules is the key I guess...

Hmmm....too early to digest all of that info without my coffee.

Though my gut tells me that if it's coming from Shap, then he did the right thing.

I guess there is no way in hell then to know the CTR on your pages then is there. Well redtubes pages with your shit on them I mean.

So you are ok with someone using stolen content from other sites to build a base of traffic and then filtering that traffic to you?


What would you say if I stole your content and used it to build a base of traffic and then filtered that traffic to your competitors?

I will tell you why,they were fine when it was easy it's gotten alittle slow and they are scared and they have no fight in them what so ever. It sucks. Look at acacia besides a few they all rolled over.

You do realize they would have 0 traffic to send you IF they didn?t had all those stolen 30 minutes? videos?

By giving them rules and limited content to use they are encouraging them to operate in a more ethical way.

If everyone did the same a whole bunch of issues around this and other sites like it would go away. :2 cents:

DRM is a technology that is great in theory but horrible in practice. Users drive what technology is used. We've asked our members and they aren't interested in us implementing DRM. In fact many of them said they would cancel and look for a site that wasn't using DRM. And make no mistake about it there is always a site out there willing to do something you aren't to get the business. DRM wouldn't help. If someone is a member they could turn around and upload our videos while the DRM allows them to have them on their computer and they are then converted to flash and the DRM is then useless. The other thing is photos can't be protected by DRM.

Your attitude about 'FUCK the surfer' is the worst attitude you could have. My company is built on listening to the surfer and giving them exactly what they want. It's worked out pretty good for us so far :thumbsup

:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh

Tell the guy with his full scenes ripped and it is financed by them being a twistys affiliate. lol

Let's take Porn 1.5 and downgrade it to Tube 0.1 because Google says it should all be free?

"The web is changing. As a result, the 'free sites' and other traditional means of traffic pooling we used to rely on, are slowly dying."

First of all, I dont believe it, I believe they are no longer able to build traffic in traditional means, because of fraud, greed, and scum that fuck with traffic.
And on top of it they are being shaved galore from sponsor, so why even waste time building a business being controlled by someone else? This means times are changing? What happens when there is 500000 tubes, circle jerk videos? And to top it off I believe you guys go around trying to buy up these old sites!?!?! Why would that be if they are worthless?

You said it yourselves that the affiliate market is dead, and you watch what happens next, after you will kill off the affiliates and find yourselves with 5000 more programs, your exposure base will drop in 2 years to the point you become worthless, and the sales will drop with it due to market saturation... you think quality will make you prevail?? It wont be long before competition matches your quality themselves and tube sites will eventually build up numbers and be niche sites and the "bulk" numbers you see now will be at an all time low leaving no IMPULSE buys left and everyone is satisfied more than ever.

The problem is with business that are "made" already.... Those are business that jeopardize our industry daily because they can afford make the dumb moves to support these dumb idea's, and not bother them when they destroy it..

The fact you DMCA and not sue to me tells the tale.
The day you start sueing is the day the industry gets back on track.

You yourselves stated that the bar is too low for anyone to get into the industry.. well the bar is tube sites.... anyone can throw up a tube site for
next to nothing, build up a billion hits per day with no advertising, and you support this????!?!?!

and since when did emailing tube site support telling them remove content become a DMCA? That is not a DMCA that is a email, the tube sites are sitting there going, "ha ha chump", we know you are too lazy to DMCA or SUE,
we OWN j00.

How do you say that with a straight face? Its full of full scenes that belong to someone else but my shit is protected so its safe. This industry makes me want to throw up more and more every day. lol

Or others will step in and provide longer stolen videos since their favorite tube is now all short approved clips.

Worse yet sponsors will begin to offer to host these short clips for tube sites just like they offer hosted everything else. Then we really get to see the blood flow as we slit our own throats.

XNXX is a huge affiliate of many companies including mine. If my taking RedTube's traffic is wrong. What about all the companies taking Xnxx's tgp traffic? Is that wrong?

He is totally ok with it, obviously.

im gonna start a tube site after reading this ;)

The problem is AFF
is pre paying people big money for all these links

so people dont give a crap if they sell a membership to the site
that they got the content from.... because aff already paid them

I am assuming by that responce you dont agree :)

Why go in all guns blazing against something that isnt going away?

Negotiate with them and give them reasons to follow the rules....

I dont have a problem with what you did shap Im
ALL FOR regulating the tube sites....

I think what you did was a good thing I do the same thing
with tube sites that want to send me traffic....

Im just pointing out the larger sites that know better
allowing it to continue

well said :thumbsup

I don't get it either. Your getting traffic from their site which has stolen content on it, but not on the pages that have your videos.

Traffic flow > RedTube.com > video #1 > video #2 > Twistys video > go to twistys. So video #1 and video #2 are stolen content so fuck them?

By allowing this to happen, your fucking the rest of your affiliates.

wow, what a bunch of crap. Glad to see I've never promoted Twisties. Always found something shady about the whole program, just never knew what exactly it was. Now I know. Thanks for making it all clear. :321GFY:

So Shap lets go straight to the point without the dancing. Are you ok helping fund the content theft of others on redtube? Because if your doing business with them the answer must be yes? So fuck the surfer is wrong but fuck the industry is ok ?

I don't agree with doing that one bit. However it's been done over and over and over since our industry started. Look at blacks on blondes. They built an entire empire on stolen content. I'm not saying it's right. What I'm saying is it happens every single day.

Whether I allow RedTube as an affiliate or not they will remain in business. Why? Because there is always someone willing to pay for the traffic. There is no shortage of low life webmasters with no morals in our industry. Us allowing RedTube as an affiliate or not will make no difference. I've come here and posted about boards and blogs stealing traffic and nobody gives a shit. As long as it doesn't hurt them they don't care. Now all of a sudden Tube sites are changing our industry so people are pissed. There is nothing we can do. Tube sites are here and not going anywhere. All we can do is work towards finding ways to control the content being used.

nice read... and yes, tube sites are here to stay1

What Shap is saying here guys is

If we all REGULATED the tube sites
then video 1 and video 2 would link the the perspective sites

the bottom line is this,there are legit sites, and non legit sites..if you profit from non legit sites you arent legit..even if you put limitations on how you feel they should profit from your work..period

because you don't appease thieves and i have integrity - i won't help or endorse anybody who makes their fortune off the hard work and investment of others. teaching a thief there is a 'better way' is easy once they are rich and can afford scruples/morals.

i've seen this movie many times before in this industry.

So if everyone rapes then its ok to rape. They are thieves you are helping, I hope its worth it when you look at yourself in the mirror. Its a shame I always saw you as a person of higher valves in the way you conduct business.

yeah..lets all hold hands and sing kumbyyah! The sponsors will compete with each other to provide tube sites with longer clips until whole scenes will be posted:1orglaugh

I know. I'm agreeing. I'm asking that question to all the programs that are against redtube but ok with xnxx. I hate to point it out but right now they are the exact same. If someone is ok with Xnxx's traffic then they should be ok with RedTube. If not they are hypocrites.

let's all regulate criminals - that's a novel idea for not just this industry but for society. let's teach them how to use their criminal skills and minds - forget throwing them in jail or fining them - let's just get them to agree not be bad anymore and teach them how to be productive citizens.

lame.

Shady? Ok. I'm sorry you feel that way. If ever you go to a show let me know. Let's get together for a drink. I guarantee you'll change your mind.

The owners of video #1 and video #2 should make the same deal...

In general that hasnt happened with TGPs - and it easily could have done....

Why?

Because they know that it is more profitable to follow the rules - lets give the Tube |sites the same incentives.

If we dont we are going to be fighting this battle forever and the ONLY winners will be Tube site owners and the lawyers.

You could call it defeatist - I would call it realistic.

having a clueless day, are we????

I'm not ok with it. However I'm trying to work with RedTube to control the content theft situation. This hasn't been an easy decision. We are trying to take steps towards creating a better situation.

They are fucking the industry your in and your defending them? This is why this industry is so fucked up and anyone can fuck with us and we roll right over. Pathetic and we call it you have to change.

Why should they police everyone else's content as well?