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Dombuyer's Guide to turning a grand into $3-$5k or more
It's lousy where I am, so I'm gonna' help out all you noobs who want to skip the working for a living part and go right to making immediate bank off domains.
I have been very lucky in this business, and every day I make good money for doing very little, I am reminded of how many years I spent in shitty jobs in factories, in sales, waitering, taking shit from people and generally being unhappy. In the spirit of all that, I thought I would do a little domain lesson for those people here who want to get ahead. Because I won't be able to edit this, and am writing stream-of-coffee, there will be gaps and mistakes. Forgive me those. Plus, I am by no means an expert, but probably more of an expert than you so... :winkwink: Here goes: You got $500 or $1000 lying around and don't really think that the 3% the bank is giving you is going to pay for those new rims? Good, you're the hungry fellow I want to talk to...lol Put your $1k Monopoly money on the table and let's start there: If *I* put out $1k on a domain, I want to make $3-5k back in a week or two, or 10x that if I hold it longer. There are few legal enterprises where you put out a grand and get back $3k or $5k in a week or so. Here's how to turn $1k into $3-5k in a week or less: Rule one: Go after what's already registered, and has a decent Overture count. New registrations are like trend-spotting. You have to have some information that the public doesn't or a hunch. Both those things are valid and sometimes pay off, but in the end, it's a lottery throw. Let's leave that aside for a moment for the purposes of this. Go here: http://inventory.overture.com/d/sear...ry/suggestion/ Type in "boobs" You'll get this list: 1379817 boob 397393 big boob 95716 huge boob 23107 lanas big boob 21048 nice boob 20335 rate my boob 20001 boob squad 18867 black boob 18026 natural boob 16972 teen boob 15300 sexy boob 15278 small boob 14469 girl boob 13455 boob job 12526 big black boob 11991 boob flash 11823 large boob 11443 naked boob 11240 fake boob 11124 big natural boob 10806 hot boob 10229 giant boob 9610 biggest boob 9566 showing boob 9391 mature boob 9333 bouncing boob 9329 tara reid boob 9118 free boob 8748 spring break boob 8562 asian boob 8553 boob grab 8402 free big boob 8175 beach boob 8058 unreal boob 8016 perfect boob 7975 boob picture 7839 show boob 7716 massive boob 7617 flashing boob 7191 lindsay lohan boob 7155 boob sex 7047 boob shot 6823 boob pic 6768 college boob 6678 her boob 6537 britney spears boob 6469 real boob 6276 boob slip 6169 boob site myspace.com 5727 gigantic boob 5673 big boob movie 5399 big boob teen 5371 monster boob 5102 boob fuck 5030 fat boob 5012 asian big boob 4988 mega boob 4943 amateur boob 4884 best boob 4702 boob cruise 4580 bare boob 4579 boob movie 4525 bigger boob 4451 lesbian boob 4278 celebrity boob 4240 blonde boob 4140 girl with big boob 4111 free big boob pic 4078 tiny boob 4006 busty boob 3987 huge real boob 3986 anime boob 3917 boob gallery 3885 nude boob 3874 boob cum 3868 man boob 3855 little boob 3840 wet boob 3823 boob video 3805 big boob pic 3798 mardi gras boob 3748 bouncy boob 3725 bra boob 3520 hentai boob 3517 huge natural boob 3482 see boob 3428 world biggest boob 3416 new boob 3381 big boob lesbian 3324 indian boob 3300 boob tit 3270 grabbing boob 3265 biggest boob in the world 3260 ebony boob 3140 saggy boob 3108 sucking boob 3088 hanging boob 3077 drunk boob 3035 beautiful boob 2995 lick boob Now don't bother with the top of the list. People who own the names at the top of that list aren't selling to a nobody. They're selling to their equals, not some poor noob like you. Not only that, but you'll get nothing near the top of the list for less than what your house cost you. Go to the bottom of the list and work to the top depending on your budget. In this case, a grand. Now, Overture does not distinguish between singular and plural, so when you type "lick boobs" in, the results will show the search lumped together for both the singular and plurar form of the phrase. Unfortunately, only one is worth anything, and 90% or more of the searches are for the plural "lick boobs". Let's take "lick boob" and type it into Overture with the .com attached. We get nothing. That doesn't mean it doesn't get type-ins, it probably does. Here, you have a fork in the road in your quest to make your grand grow: 1. Contact the owner of lickboob.com and lickboobs.com and offer them a base amount--say, $300. Tell them you can offer them more if you know the traffic. Wait a day or two for a response. There is a science to cold pitches, and that requires a whole second lesson. Let's leave that aside. 2. Move up the list to a phrase that actually registers with the .com type-in. In this case, it's ebonyboobs.com, (but as an aside, common sense tells you that saggyboobs.com will for sure get type-ins). Ebonyboobs.com gets 40 returns with the .com. I'm guessing it will get 5-10 type-ins a day. Okay, now you've got a fork in the road. The owner of lickboobs.com replies to you and tells you, sold @$300! You have no idea if it's even getting one type-in a day. Have you flushed $300 down the toilet? Well, go back to Overture and type "lick boobs" into the suggestion tool again without the .com. You get a return of 2995 on the singular "lick boob". But again, Overture lumps together singular and plural, and you're definitely safe assuming that the bulk of those 2995 returns is for the plural. You don't usually lick one boob, you lick both, unless you're 8 months and really, really hungry. :1orglaugh So, you know that that phrase has good play, even if it's not showing up with the .com. This is a ding-ding-ding moment. These situations are gold and here's why: Most people who dabble in domains don't trust a name unless it gets returns with the .com attached in Overture. So they move along to something else. But here's the thing about Overture: It's just a tool, and it's often wrong as far as measuring type-ins. Sometimes very wrong. Nobody with a brain relies on it 100%. In this business, we have a saying, and it's simple: The only way to truly know the type-ins of a name is to test it. (lol) But in this business, like any other, you want to be buying where no one else is, because sellers aren't playing off multiple offers. And these kinds of names don't attract as much interest, because people want sure things. Lonely paths make the most money. You could make a full time job out of these situations, finding names that have interesting numbers with just the phrase (lick boobs) typed in but not the phrase with the .com. Now, if you bought lickboobs.com for $300, you'd never lose money, because you could turn to people like me and I would assume that the name is getting at least 5-10 type ins a day without caring what Overture says. Once you've guaranteed your investment, you're riding shotgun and kicking ass. Now I would know that it gets type-ins from experience. But how would you, who may not know that, want to make sure that this was so? Go to Google: Type in "lick boobs" in brackets (very important). The phrase returns about 16000 sites that have that phrase. Go through the sites and look them over. Any of them have sites built around that very phrase? Probably not, but possibly. What's on the site? Start assessing its popularity. When you typed that phrase into Google, did it return any paid ads on the right? (the bullshit generic ones from ebay and amazon don't count of course). If there are some real ones, go look at the top bidders and look at their sites to try and get some clues. Figure out what they are paying per click to be in that ad: Go here: http://searchmarketing.yahoo.com/rc/srch/ Click on "Visit The Advertiser Center" Click on "View Bids Tool" on the right. In this case, there is no bidder for "lick boobs" but if the phrase were "big boobs" the price for an advertiser per click would be .10c That sucks. Let's see what Google is charging for that phrase: https://adwords.google.com/select/Wi...ewaccount=true Go through the process and you come up with Google getting only .5c for "lick boobs". (If you it was large boobs, they're getting 30c per click. Makes sense, right, because that's a much more known phrase) Okay, so you're basically at the Overture and Google's minimum bid, so that doesn't help you, but again, you're stealth, because no one else would bother to buy this name unless they knew something that no one else does, and that's where all the other sniffing about comes in handy. So, you know the phrase is definitely popular, you know that Overture is showing very good returns without the .com ($300 worth for sure) and you're pretty certain you won't lose anything. Now here's the step that guarantees your investment if you're a chicken shit. You have a list of the top ten guys in the domain game that you can contact *without fear that we will end run you and buy the domain direct*. There is such a list, and I am on that list. (con't below) |
con't:
Those of us in the business of buying up domains have an unwritten rule that if you bring us a name, we will never push you out of the way if you have a specific price and we aren't in the middle of buying that name or seriously negotiating. Point is, we want people to continue sending us names, so if we start cutting out freelancers, we lose names. It's that simple. So, you write me and say: "Dombuyer is this name worth $400 to you without knowing the traffic?" I say "Why, yes it is." Now you're investment is guaranteed. Email the second Dombuyer guy. Maybe it's Slavik. "Slavik, is this name worth $500 to you?" "Why, yes it is" says Slavik. Repeat until someone says "No." Right there, without having put up a dime, you might have made $300 or more on top of your original $300." The key is not to contact someone you can't trust, else they will cut you out and it's game over. I have a name right now that is a beat $25k but I'm not sure I want it, even though the seller and I have agreed on a price. I have a list of people I can contact and ask if they want it, without it getting back to the seller or having it bought out from under me. This serves all parties in this trust loop. It's no different on the lower level with your $300 name. So you decide to buy the name. Your $300 is basically safe, and more money's coming your way. You got two choices: You can buy the name with your $300, or simply sell the option to me for $500. Then you haven't even put up your money, BUT you also haven't taken possession of the name and actually assessed its real value. It might be really worth a grand or two. This is a good decision to have to make of course because you're going to make money either way. It's only a matter of measuring your risk and faith in the type-in value of the name. Pause here to answer a question many of you might be thinking: Why would the guy who owns it and know the actual traffic, ever sell it cheap? Doesn't he know the value more than anyone? Not always. Here's why? 1. He needs the money. Never underestimate this factor. Who knows why. He needs the money, and that's it. If he grumbles to you about selling so cheap, that's a good sign. If he sells real quick, not as good, but I have had literally dozens of deals that made absolutely no sense and when they really went through I thought to myself "Well, I'll be damned...lol" 2. He'd prefer to get the $300 cash up front, even though he's making $30 a month off of it. Guys like me would rather make the money over time and don't mind paying the $300 upfront. Guys like him might be the opposite. It works. 3. He's never paid attention to the traffic. Those people still exist, though less than before, who don't actually know the traffic, or don't care on principle ("it's a brand" they scream.) This is especially true on lower value names. Higher value owners usually know the traffic, but often times not its value, so even there there is room to squeeze in. Bottom line there are lots of factors in play that mean you might be getting a $300 name cheap. The more you know, the less you get screwed. So, back to the action: You decide you're going to risk your $300 and test it out yourself. You sign up for domainsponsor or get a decent affiliate program and you find out the name has 20 type-ins a day. That would be the happy ending story, very very possible. Congrats, you win, pass Go, and can do another deal with your new money. But what about the opposite: ie the name gets just 3 or 4 type-ins a day? Are you fucked? No, course not. Then you're into climbing the ladder of confidence. You've already got a pre-commit from me and Slavik or Taboo or whover. You have various "levels of confidence". By that I mean, that every player has, based on their goals for their business, whether they're converting via ppc (as I do) or affiliate, how much that name and its niche means to them. This takes time to figure out which player needs what, but bottom line is that you do the rounds and you find someone who says, even based on the lower-than-expected traffic, "That name is still worth $500 to me." Let me make this very clear: None of us would never agree on the same value for the same name. We all value a name differently, though always roughly within the same brackets. The key is to make money within those brackets of course. Now we've spent a lot of time with example no. 1 in the fork in the road: LickBoobs.com with no Overture score, but potentially much higher rewards, and as we've seen, little downside. What about example no. 2 above: EbonyBoobs.com with an Overture of 40 with the .com? If there's an Overture, people will buy it, doesn't matter how low. The only question is how high you price it. You go back and do all the fact-finding we did with LickBoobs.com. In this case, you're only rolling dice to the degree of what you end up paying to get the seller to part with it, whereas in a name with no Overture with the .com, you've instantly reduced interest amongst your list of possible buyers and you get less of a bidding war. A note here about Overture scores. I cannot say this enough: It's quality not just quantity. People always icq me: "How much would A NAME (my italics) be worth if it had a score of 120 with the .com?" Depends on the name and the niche It varies dramatically. So which niches match up best with which type-in domains? Well, that takes experience to know. Spend some time with the bid tools above and learn. You can get a rough idea pretty quick. This has been a long post and I'm a little tired, so let's start with this first post and I'll get a coffee and add some more. Bottom line is that if we adjusted our example and lickboobs.com cost a grand to buy, we'd get back between $3 and $5k or more depending. Not bad. It happens every day for me, and I'm not no more smart than the scenarios above, which you noobs now know. Lots of you guys have cash around, credit card advances. Start making bread now. That's how I started. The lower end of Overture lists is a goldmine. I paid $1500 this week for a name that I flipped a few days later for $3500 because it didn't pay in my ppc model but did for an affiliate program owner. Hope this helps. I really like to see people succeed, especially since there are so many hungry guys (and gals) here willing to risk. Fuck you all :pimp |
Fuck hella of a good post.
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edit: when I say in my first post: Offer the owner of lickboob.com/ lickboobs.com $300, I should have stated clearly that the singular lickboob.com is practially worthless. The plural in this case is worth something, the singular not.
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how about I just give you 1 grand and you give me 3.5 grand back
that way I wouldn't have to dig into this and you seem to be better at it anyways so... :winkwink: |
One more thing to add:
Everything you need to make money is in those two posts. I haven't held back anything that I consult on a daily basis before I buy a name. Of course, my judgement might be better (or worse,lol) than yours but I use the tools above and nothing else in deciding to buy. |
Post of the year right here. Thanks DomBuyer!
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very interessing reading :)
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bookmarked, good thread
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Dombuyer wtffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff
I read only 1/3 of what you wrote here, but why are you giving aways such secrets. To most people like me it took months of research and you are giving away secrets for free. You are turning into a 2nd Taboo. Go back to posting your new daily 'hot babe threads' :angrysoap |
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Now I demand a "how to get Google traffic" from WiredGuy thread or "how to make bling bling with illegal fake Rolex spam" from Franck :mad:
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Thank you
This was a very interesting read, I had been trying to lear the ropes for a month now, and ended up developing a bunch of sites cos I bought the wrong shit :P Everything takes knowledge and practice, I appreciate your sharing the knowledge - ps I am one of the gals -
nik :thumbsup |
I already regret that I explained this game to Rhesus and now you make even more competition :waaaaahh
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The other half of it is that gfy has been very good to me. I like this place. People are honest and don't get censored. I can't say that about other places, like Rick's Board, or DnForum (Domainstate is a pretty fair compromise, but it's still far too civil for me). I like honesty and I like when people mix it up. Of course, the fake drama is a bit much of course. :mad: |
Nice read. I will be sure to contact you the next time I am flipping a domain. I have been trying to sell some on my own and its been a bit of a pain.
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awesome post dombuyer!
for buying/selling domains do you always use (or reccomend) escrow ? |
When did Taboo change usernames?
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Fucking excellent post :thumbsup
I was looking at some niche keywords on Overture last week. I doubt they get any type ins (they are long), but they had over 10,000 in overture. I actually bought one for a program I'm working on. So basically, lets say something has 30,000 in overture, no .com registered, yet its highly unlikely it gets any type ins. How much of a penalty would this be on the potential domain price? |
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For any purchases outside of that, I use escrow.com. There are definitely ways you can be screwed at escrow.com, but if you are a long-time client as I am, you have more power than the person you're dealing with if they're new, so you're less likely to get screwed. |
It would be posted after the fact for me ... thanks DomBuyer
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Footnotes:
1. The longer the domain, the less type-ins it gets. Some people don't know that. 2. The specificty of the niche increases its value. "Teens" is not as valuable as "hirsuite trannies" lol 3. No one tool can make the decision for you. Rotate around all the tools, check your gut and act from there. (And get a pre-commit from me to check your back) 4. Personalize your pitch on the buy side as much as possible. I have someone in my office who sends out generic pitches, and they rarely convert. When I send out my own custom pitches, I almost always get a response. I think like a big domain owner and identify with their situation ("who the fuck are you and why are you bothering me?") |
best post on gfy in ages
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btw
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5. Do one big deal for $25k rather than 25 deals for a grand. Do less work and make more. (assuming you got the bread)
6. Never get mad at a coldcall domain owner or seller, unless they really, really piss you off. You always regret it, because rarely do people own just one domain, and if you're nice, you might get access to the gem they didn't even know had value. Recent example: the former owner of kitty.com was one of the most objectionable people I've ever dealt with. Absolutely crazy woman. Yet I killed her with kindness when in fact I wanted to kill her AND her kitty. The result: Kitty.com has been a fantastic domain for us. It wasn't cheap, but it was a steal. |
Great read, thanks for the info.
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now how many emailed the owner of lickboobs.com so far? :)
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Thanks for making a good business thread worth reading. :)
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excellent post... id be willing to pay someone a % to play with my cash and do this, hit my icq 1337988, seriously.. i guess you'd have to be HARD pressed for cash to do this for someone else, but the offer's out there.
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DB,
Best post I've probably ever read. Pure gold info and very well written. If I get to meet you, remind me I owe you several drinks and many loose whores! |
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Awesome post.
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He replies to you "Sold" You come to me, and I say.... "Sorry, that name sucks." :1orglaugh :1orglaugh |
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It does? Shit I'm going to be out 100 bucks. :1orglaugh :1orglaugh |
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it looks like my post backfired: My icq's gone nuts.
I should have known. :mad: |
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DomBuyer for vice president! MetaMan for president! :upsidedow
nice post! i am still a newbie when it comes to this but i am getting there. |
I have a question.
You mentioned that in order to flip a domain you need to know the buyers. Of course, you always need to know who you're selling to. My question is: for any new people that want to get into the domain game, how do they find out who the buyers are? Who are the top 20 people in the domain game that would entertain sales pitches? I don't have the time or resources to flip domains, nor do I have the interest, but I am looking for gems in a few niches and this thread has really given me some great ideas as to how to snatch those. So thanks! |
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1. Dombuyer 2. Mickey Mouse 3. Slavik 4. George Foreman 5. AVM 6. Dombuyer 7. NetTuner 8. Chris Chena 9. Vertical Axis 10. Dombuyer |
Nice post Dombuyer!
now stop sending me those generic emails about my domains! LOL! :thumbsup |
Of course, anyone who follows the above advice is likely selling to DomBuyer cheap (thus one of the motivations for the posts, as you're doing all the work finding the gems for him). :) The way to get the best price isn't to flip it fast.
Also, if you actually try the above, factor in the value of your time. It might take 500 emails/calls to domain owners to get one deal done. If it was so easy, DomBuyer would just hire staff. :) But, it's time consuming (I know first-hand), so when you end up calculating your hourly wage, that job at McDonald's starts looking good. You're also competing against automated bots (anyone who owns domains knows they get MANY emails per month with lowball offers, because folks are scripting the Overture tool and matching it up against the WHOIS database). Those bots can search for names faster than you can. Conclusion: All the "easy" money has already been made, years ago. The business is fairly mature now, and the returns on investment are approaching "normal" returns of other businesses. Except when buying from newbies (like folks in "awe" of the post!). :) |
Hint to the newbies -- note the word "noobs" appears in the first sentence of the first post. :1orglaugh
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nice post... maybe you should also start a "Domain Pawn" service like Latona. Definitely room for another player. :winkwink: |
This business is as much about psychology as numbers
The weather is horrible where I am, and the coffee's free, so here goes:
This business is filled with geeks. If you want to compete with the geeks, you'd better be glued to those numbers all day long, because that's what the big players do. My partner is a geek. I let him geek. Me, I'm more interested in the role that relationships and psychology play. This is the vastly underdeveloped part of the game. You can overoffer on some names and you still won't get a reply. Why? Because domain owners are used to the bullshit, to the guy who throws out a number, gets a reply, and disappears. No owner wants to commit to a price, but parse the offers and decide on his own to sell. If you contact a domain owner, you must inspire confidence. The pitch is everything, as you're wedged between the spam folder (self-deleting..lol) and the 300 other offers this guy gets every week. Personalize it to the nth degree. And that doesn't mean: "Dear ___________________ " Lol. Tell the owner that you know about the name, you know about the guy's site, and you know that domain is worth at least 50% more than you are offering. On top domains, not the ones at the bottom of Overture, never offer less than 50% of what the domain is actually worth to you, and frequently offer close to 100% of what it's worth. You'd be amazed how often you have a sale. Domain owners don't want to be insulted, first and foremost. That most people know, but few fail to consider is that if you insult someone one time, you rarely get in the door on any other domain that guy owns. You're in the wanker pile. Don't want to be there. Do everything you can to inspire confidence and ease. And the way to do that is actually to be trustworthy, friendly and brief. If you make a commitment, follow through. I'm not a fan of DomainKing for a lot of reasons, but the one thing I learned from him, the hard way, was that rep is easily destroyed but not easily built. Treat your rep with care. If you email a domain owner and he knows your names before you email, you're in for a better ride. Tell him the names you bought and the range you paid. This is very important in deciding whether you'll even get a reply. In the case of this thread, even one bought domain, no matter how small, with a whois that looks credible, inspires confidence. Make sure your phone number works. Whatever you do, don't point them to the dnjournal sale you just closed. While tempting, it reminds them how much their name is worth! :1orglaugh |
sweet. Excelent informative post. I've always wondered how domain pedlers go about doing what they do. Very insightful stuff. Thanks! :)
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When I first saw DomBuyer starting all the PIX threads, I thought someone stole his GFY acct... however, after reading this thread, I'm sure of it. LOL. |
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