Paul Markham - There is nothing wrong with the tube model.
 

If you want a discussion let's make it easy.

1. No wall of text.
2. One point or counterpoint per reply.
3. Wait on a response before adding another point or counterpoint.

First Point

There is nothing wrong with the tube model of getting tons of traffic to get a few paysite joins, upsell cams or other things and selling ad spots to bring in cash.

Your turn.

"No rebuttal, must mean I'm right." :upsidedow

I agree, nothing wrong with giving away content for free to generate a lot of traffic

Tube traffic generates 1,000s of joins to paysites (not cam and dating) daily.

The argument ends there. You are 100% correct.

The tube model itself is OK. It's giving away 1000s and 1000s of free full length pirated videos that was the stupid move. Though, for the biggest tube owners who were able to pull it off, it was not stupid to them, even if their acts were illegal.

Just having some fun with Paul. The business model seems to really piss him off. :1orglaugh

safe harbor = not illegal

Uploading shit to your own tube or knowingly allowing others to do so = illegal. Most of the big tubes were illegal. The end.

Depends on what country you live. Not every country has the same laws.

Nothing wrong at all. If the sites getting the adverts are paying for the content. I'll sell you content for a Tube site anytime you like. :thumbsup

Turning 1,000s of site members into 1,000s of traffic to sell to cam and dating sites. Well that's not right, unless the cams and dating contribute to the content costs.

Turning 1-100 to 1-1,000 is bad.

Turning 1-100 into 1-4,000 is terrible.

you might want to look at the youtube vs viacom case again

http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/n...om-filings.ars

You forgot that tube will bring 100x more traffic than some shity paysite will have members, so do x100 on traffic & 'sales count with shity ratios you predict', and still that is 5-10x better than your prediction at the end in terms of $$$

If Tubes converted at 1-100 uniques we would not be having this conversation and I would be putting up a Tube site. Meanwhile in the real world.

https://gfy.com/showpost.php?p=18682099&postcount=10

Answer: All traffic is not equal. You can't generate a million paysite hits as easily as you can tube hits. If you get 100 times the traffic but only 10% of the money per visit you made 10 times as much with the tube.

Do you understand this point yet?

Here https://gfy.com/showpost.php?p=18682688&postcount=42

I copied the ratios of all the posters ratios prior to that post. It was this.

223719 uniques
3 sales.

1-74,573

One in seventy four thousand five hundred and seventy three people interested in looking at free porn bought a membership. Now Pimproll are concentrating on selling traffic.

St23 can you tell me what's good about that?

If some people want to accept this is the best they can do today, then fine. I just aimed higher all my life. Which is why I'm off to watch TV while you try to get millions to sell to a few. :thumbsup

I understand your mythical point.

Can you tell us the real figures please.

Warchild said he was converting 1-500, but refused to tell us how many surfers it took. Yes free tubes will get loads more traffic, traffic that would be worth more, traffic that if it was worth much you would be buying content to put up Tube sites.

How much content do you and other Tube sites buy to sell your ads. Or do you and the advertisers feed off free content?

on a domain that was parked and that wasn't generating anything at all prior.


instead of 20 small stores selling a few different items at a time walmart made one big store that sold everything in one place. Far more traffic ended up in far more sales overall.

So without a Tube site owners giving us honest ratios we're all guessing at the ratios and earnings.

Yes not all traffic is equal. Even in the days of only offline porn people would wander in to have a look around. People would take mags off a top shelf to browse, that's why lots of people put them in plastic wrappers. Someone posted that his friend had a Newsstand and 100 people would look at a magazine before 1 would buy. Well that was BS and common sense tells you, I don't need to say why.

Still no one ever expects to sell 1-1. And the more people you have looking the more you sell to. However there is a limit to it. When you have 20 million a day on one Porn Tube and do the numbers, you realise that if 1-100 of those people were spending 10% the online porn business would be worth much more than it is today.

200,000 x $3 = $600,000 Turn Over a day x 1 year = $219,000,000 a year off one Tube site.

If that were the case, content would be a lot more than it is today. Porn Tube sites would be buying exclusive content.

Sadly in the real world we all know ST23 sells clicked traffic around $3 a 1,000. And if 1-19 are clicking.

20,000,000 = 1,052,631 clickers = $3,156 in revenue for 20,000,000 people interested in porn.
With a million surfers on a site that's $157.80 a day.

If my calculations are wrong, please put them right. If you dispute my figures, ask PR why they do so badly with their Tube site.

Great way to use your content. :1orglaugh

gotta love gfy though.

pre tubes: "tubes are evil they gonna destroy the biz, they just steal videos from my site and give em away. there will be no more signups!"

post tubes: "tubes a legit way to make money. i actually now upload my videos to tubes to save the tube owners time of stealing them! yes i make deals with tube owners, hey i own tubes now!"

lol

He just doesn't fucking get it. Why bother encouraging this old bag of wind?

[QUOTE=Paul Markham;18725241]Here https://gfy.com/showpost.php?p=18682688&postcount=42

I copied the ratios of all the posters ratios prior to that post. It was this.

223719 uniques
3 sales.

1-74,573

UHM, these rations seem bizarre to me. either i am missing something, or it's tough to make it so bad even if you try.

in my experience we can make 1:150 with the best tube/content combination (in some cases actually better). when we screw up, it does not get worse than 1:400 with tube traffic.

You do that on clicks to the site or uniques to the Tubes?

Clicks to the site 1-150 is good, maybe you need to show PR how to do it because they couldn't convert very well from their join page.

Roald reported this. Join page 238-Sales 0 0-238 isn't good or is it?

If you're getting 1-20 to click on a link, then the ratios are 1-3,000 to 1-8,000. you see the point is, except to those who want to ignore it, these are people interested in porn surfing porn sites and if only 5% are able to buy. Then that's fine. If of the 95% left some are people who can't even be bothered today to go look at at a tour and prefer to stick to consuming free porn. Then it's not a good picture.

Tubes are the only way for some to make money today.

I totally get it. You bright kids are teaching us old guys how it should be done. :1orglaugh

Encourage me some more windbag. I'm back from watching the TV. :thumbsup

I really hope you end up in jail sometime soon.

.

:thumbsup:thumbsup

He's right. A safe harbor isn't illegal and for some it's a life saver. From storms, hurricanes, Typhoons, pirates etc. He was talking about the pirates on the high seas wasn't he?

:1orglaugh :1orglaugh :1orglaugh

You must be a millionaire, are you? Why not?

Clicks to the site.

I don't think they need my advice... There are many business models out there and many roads to Rome. What I know is that with our particular combination of content / presentation / distribution, tubes bring decent business. I can't speak for others. :2 cents:

I fail to entirely grasp your numbers. If you are counting the videos views on tubes, then 1:3000 to sale is completely fine with me.

My goal with this channel is to get 1mio views per day over all the tubes. You need perhaps a couple of dozen of good websites to do that. We hope to get there in 2012 - it can be done and the math shows it's a channel with decent money in it.

It is fine as they are exploiting the law to their benefit. But overall we have seen that turning thousands of paying customers into freeloaders is not good for the long term health of the industry. It is a leaner porn industry with less overall revenue.

There was a point where if all the dmca notices were ignored that porn production might have become unprofitable and that would have made the model unsustainable.

I know from watching your posts that you've grown your program significantly over the last two years. Somehow (probably with hard work and brains) you're getting it right.

Here is the question, and I think this is the crux of it:

Is the "new reality" of 1:3000 - 6000 a shelf or a point on a declining line? If it is a new stable place, then everyone will adapt to that. If the ratios continue to decline drastically, then we are teaching new users never to pay and the 1:3000 is old guys who will be gone from the consumer population soon.

Watching the success you had, you probably can answer that. Are signups declining for equal effort, or have they reached a stable low point?

according to paul's logic there is no difference between a direct mail postal ad and a tv ad.

arguing with him is pointless. it's not even entertaining call him a stupid old man any more, blah.

If you run the tube, you will have best optimisation for ads and revenue making from them, also INDIAN traffic is worthless on tube and paysite too, so i cant take that number serious without knowing from where traffic is coming, are ads optimized, etc...

That's the real problem today. 99.99% of the surfers on a Tube site have made a choice to go to that Tube site. They are not people passing by with trolleys taking a free biscuit from a promo girl. Not people walking down the street. These are people browsing the biscuits on the shelves. Now how many will buy if someone gives them as many packets as they wish? They could be packets of broken but it's clear the samples we now give away satisfy a huge number of ex buyers.

Well I was just being sarcastic that this huge "bro" company were converting the traffic of Roald another "bro" at an awful ratio on a join page. My real concern about that whole thread was no one was questioning the ratios, except me.

1-3,000 sales ratio is fine with you. :upsidedow

And this will get harder and harder as others go this easy route and more surfers learn not to pay for porn. Decent money. :1orglaugh

This isn't to you, but to many others.

Please no more bullshit about online porn being bigger than offline porn. No more clowns comparing the turn over of Wicked, Private or any other producer with the turn over of online retail companies. Compare porn shops with these programs. And please before you reply to this last statement go do some research first.

:2 cents:

It's also fine if you're selling traffic and don't have to buy the content the surfers came to see.

I'm understanding why so many oppose SOPA or any law to shut down piracy. This type of law will greatly reduce the amount of sites with nothing but a forum linking to the big file locking joints, it will hit the little guys earning a living from uploading to these guys, cut off the head and the body dies. Which isn't good if what's paying for the forum is the ads being sold off it.

Target the MU's filesonic's, etc and the effect is enormous. Every time you knock one out another will take their place. But advertisers, affiliates, traffic guys will lose money. Get a law that make the supporters liable, then you cut the head off many in one swoop. Piracy will still exist, what it won't be is an industry that feeds off others to the level it does today.

WAIT!

Im a bro now?

:pimp

http://www.demotivator.org/photos/83...4c4bf8d11d.JPG

Many, many factors contribute to a "conversion ratio" so saying 1:100 vs. 1:5000 is really a stupid, pointless waste of time.

What's the tour like?
What's the content like?
What landing page does the surfer from the tube hit?
How many OTHER (better?) sites has this visitor just visited?
How long does a surfer stay ON your site?
Does it have video previews? If so, how long?
How many "call to action" buttons are there on the tour?
What colors are people using for their tours?
What time of day/week/year did the visitor visit?

Oh help me Jebus, on and on it goes.

So to REALLY "discuss" conversion ratios then we must be discussing A-B (or "split) testing. In other words:

Take the same exact tour. Send 1000 tube visitors to Tour A.
Send 1000 "other" visitors (SEO, blogs, FHGs, etc) to Tour B.

Which makes more sales?

But really, why discuss the intricacies of online marketing here?
I really gotta start learning my lesson....:D

I hate to say, but I agree that tubes are killing the business, that and torrents, which is why I make 90% of my money with micro niche blogging. But I do have a tube for traffic to keep up with competition and it took no time at all to set up.. :)

But the surfers trolling for full length free videos all night aren't going to be buyers anyways..

The numbers game works great in your head. Until you can prove it will work in the real world, shut the fuck up.

That's the whole problem in a paragraph. Is 1-3,000 going to be the bottom or will it go lower?

1,000,000 converting at 1-3,000 = 333 sales a day @ $10 a sale it's $3,330 a day income. If it were that easy 1,000s would be doing it and no one would be moaning. The problem is the more who try the harder ti is too maintain the original 1,000,000 @ 1-3,000 as the only tool you have is to add more content.

Then there's the problem Misterpeabody addresses. Do the people slinging mud at the wall have a clue about how to get all that right. Or will they go broke relying on stats to find the winning solution. Kinda like relying on stats to come up with the winning lottery number. Extreme example, still fits.

Are those throwing out free content to get the stats without knowing what really works, destroying a once vibrant business?

Would ST23 be so happy if he were selling porn paysite membership joins or only traffic to sites selling to porn paysite membership sites?

Can the people who run the sites afford to create a great tour, content, landing page, better site, etc. That will make the surfer turn into a member?

Where is Stocktrader23 hiding? :1orglaugh

And finally, what's on the TV tonight because that's where I'm headed. :thumbsup

who cares if your promo video gets a billion people to watch your promo vid, it's their bandwidth. just as long as people go to your tour and join page it's all good.

does everyone who watches a pepsi commercial run out to the store immediately and buy one you idiot?

Also, saying that conversion ratios are much worse than they used to be is mostly because there are tons of more affiliates these days to compete with, lots more website out there because of lower hosting costs/freehosts/easier to make now, faster internet connections, better longer videos for people to get off to, people got wise to file sharing, oversaturation of porn on the internet makes paying for porn seem pointless, etc..

I'm curious how the big paysites are doing in terms of conversion ratios since there aren't thousands of affiliates bringing in different numbers..

I wish I was in this business in the 90s, but I was still a kid.. :(

Every single time :upsidedow

If every visitor were spending $3 there wouldn't be 200,000 visitors. I know that's hard for you to understand though. Don't hurt yourself trying to figure it out.

Trust us, we ALL understand what you're saying, every time you say it, whether it makes any sense or not. But you can't understand a damn thing anyone tries to explain to you or maybe you just refuse to.

You sure seem to find the most basic shit interesting though.

PR_Glen (after you compared theatre sales and porn sales lmfao): that's a completely different product. People don't go to the theatre to alleviate sexual impulses, not compared to what we are selling, so comparing the two is nonsense.
Paul Markham reply: Interesting post. So what are you selling here. Traffic or a 30 day paysite join?

Interesting post? No, it's not interesting, it's common fucking sense. But the extent of your ability to understand things is beginning to show. You thought it was interesting because it was such a basic point even you could understand it. And you just disagree with anything else more confusing. Then you follow it up with an equally retarded question that ANYONE could answer.

He didn't respond with a single point at a time so once again no progress was made in the evolution of Paul.

On that note, did he stop trolling around all the other threads last night or was he pulling a double? :glugglug

keep him busy in this thread thanks.

What is wrong with the pirate tube model is that times are changing in favor of pay sites. ACTA/SOPA/PIPA whatever will soon be passed in one form or another. "Safe haven" means nothing if they block your payment processor or traffic to the USA and Euro. It's a dying business model. It's like investing in VHS video tapes.

The time of quality pirate tubes will soon be over. Too much waves are coming and the pirate boat is taking in water already. It will be to easy to take them out. Why invest money, as an affiliate or even as an owner, in a failing model when you can invest in quality content?

Who brought up these pirate tubes anyhow? Irrelevant to the topic.

I think we need a daily thread with Paul Markham in the title to keep him out of the other ones.