But I don't. Where do I say that?

I know they exist, on any given day. I'm saying all the right drills happened on the right day in such a way that facilitated the hijackers' job.

And like I said, though you'll have Mueller and others saying the pre-existing drills facilitated the response, there is zero proof of that and much proof to the contrary.

To say they didn't have an impact on the incidents of the day is to be really short-sighted. They did, and whether you think it was positive or negative depends on which general you believe...

Well, I don't know about that but I haven't searched that deep. All I know is that there were many, many drills and exercises and practice runs, and everybody denied them until a certain point... like during commission hearings...

:D

it's all one big ass blast isn't it ...

None of this had any impact on anything. Zero. Just because a department of a branch of the military has a drill, it doesn't mean anything was shut down or response time affected.

I think the fact that most of the jet fighters who were supposed to be on stand by to protect US airspace were gone on exercises is significant and had an impact on military response.

I think the re-organization of the chain of command by Dick Cheney in June three months earlier had an effect on military response on that day.

How in any reasonable sense can you say that the lack of military response that day had zero impact on anything that happened that day?

The fighters weren't there even 24 minutes later when it was all confirmed, the commanders weren't there, their delegates weren't there to act on their behalf...

How can you say

when it was all departments of all branches who were disaffected that day by various reasons such as exercises, absence of military hierarchy, conferences, meetings, answering machines... how?

:D

like i asked can you post any source for that? no? of course not. it is just made up. a lie.

You fail to understand how the military works.

If my local fire department is on a training exercise, they still respond to a fire. They don't just say "We're busy". They always leave enough forces in place to handle real emergencies. In the same respect, when NORAD does a drill, it doesn't mean that all of NORAD goes offline. They take people offline and out of the chain of command to run such drills.

In fact, NORAD had two drills that day - and because there was so many people on duty, once they discovered a real emergency, they were staffed at twice their normal level.

However, NORAD can't really do dick about civilian airliners. Nor can our military. That's like calling the US Marines because someone robbed a bank. Short of shooting them down, there's nothing they can do.

At the same time, you have to understand the mass confusion going on that day. The FAA wasn't sure what planes were hijacked and which planes were still airborne, no less direct the military to them.

From wikipedia, oddly enough, the 9/11 conspiracy theories page:

According to The Eleventh Day: The Full Story of 9/11 and Osama bin Laden, a book about the attacks published in 2011, the longest warning NORAD received of the hijackings was some eight minutes for American Airlines Flight 11, the first flight hijacked. The FAA alerted NORAD to the hijacked Flight 175 at just about the same time it was crashing into the World Trade Center's South Tower. The FAA notified NORAD of the missing ? not hijacked ? Flight 77 three minutes before it struck the Pentagon. NORAD received no warning of the hijack of United Flight 93 until three minutes after it had crashed in Pennsylvania.

And again, this is typical of the "so called truth movement" - saying our military was ordered to stand down, when the truth is more like the FAA was unable to tell anyone what was happening.

For some reason my link above didn't work.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9/11_conspiracy_theories

You're still arguing with these lunatics? Don't you ever learn?

give up
even if the sun rose at midnight some people here would refuse to believe it

There was apparently a misunderstanding of what was "real" and what was exercise, that day.

In the Wikipedia timeline, which is probably based on the 9/11 Commission, for what that's worth, only two jets are available for scramble.

It claims the jets took off and couldn't find the first hijacked jet, but doesn't source the claim. Other timelines have the alert jets sitting on the tarmac, waiting.

So was this "too many chefs spoil the stew" or are you saying this somehow helped? (And btw I don't recall ever seeing anywhere that they were staffed at "twice their normal")...

Also, I suspect that while NORAD may have had only two drills of their own that day, they may have been also participating in a bunch of other ones, I don't recall, but they weren't the only ones coincidentally engaging in exercises that day. There were many others whose "emergency response" was on test mode ...

However they are part of the chain of command protocol when an airliner is hijacked. NEADS is notified in that part of the country, then NORAD, which is what happened...

The FAA didn't seem so confused - they notified NEADS twelve minutes before the first crash.

Wikipedia should cross-check their references to their own timeline.

I don't know why you keep typifying me as "so called truth movement" or mentioning them in your replies. Since the 9/11 Commission and NIST are also based on partial "truths" and findings, as well largely on hypothesis, why don't you lump them in with the "conspiracy theorists"? Because you agree with their theory?

Obviously you can't address my signifying the large amount of coincidental drills or exercises, as well as those that were re-scheduled earlier than usual or "spontaneously" conducted. Can anyone? Is there a chart somewhere or some co-ordination between agencies so that two jets aren't the only thing that stand between the country and an external or internal threat?

I mean, you do realize that four hijacked jets were able to fly loose around the North East for up to an hour and a half without being intercepted in any way, right?

And I'm not putting forward a theory of why, here; I'm saying, since there was no real explanation except for a big administrative "Oops", and then informational obfuscation, it opens many doors as to what happened and why.

Apart from the "conpiracy theorists" and "dumb cunts", the families of the victims have been asking the same questions, and were in fact responsible for any commission or so-called investigation in the first place. Are all questions out of bounds when it comes to the government story?

I've never read that.

Both the FAA and the US military was completely unprepared for what happened on 9/11. The FAA was not able to track the hijacked jets - the first thing they did was turn the transponders off. This is how the FAA tracked airliners and plane flights, and without it there was a lot of guesswork. They were unable to guide the military to the flights. And even if they were, what exactly did we expect them to do? Start shooting down airliners?

I don't know what the US Air Force has on standby at any given time. However, I would imagine prior to 9/11 those would be looking for an external threat, not tracking and attacking airliners over NYC.

There really isn't any such thing as "too many chefs" when it comes to the US Military. There is a highly defined chain of command, and everyone knows that chain of command all the way up to the very top. Your making it sound like they were overwelmed that day before the attacks, when the truth is they were over staffed for training and they were instantly able to drop the training and move to the real life problems.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not defending the military here - they were caught with their pants down. It blows my mind that at any given time on the eastern seaboard there was only a handful of jets able to scramble. But again, this goes back to the entire civilian / military issue - generally speaking, civilian authorities don't call on the military for support in emergencies.

Your line of logic is very similar to the "so called truth movement". In this case, your implying that the US Military was having an unusual amount of drills that day when the truth is it's very normal. (In fact, one such drill is being conducted today in NYC with their Office Of Emergency Management.)

Yes, I do realize this, but your taking things out of proportion here.

With flight 11, the first indication of a problem was at 8:15am when the plane failed to acknowledge a request and it crashed into a tower at 8:46am. That's about half an hour, not an hour and a half.

The first indication of a problem with flight 175 was at 8:51am, when the plane changed it's transponder code. Less then ten minutes later it slammed into the second tower.

Do you see what you did there? You made it sound like these planes were running around unsupervised for an hour and a half, when the truth is one fight was hijacked for half an hour before crashing and the second flight was hijacked for ten minutes before crashing.

Because they were given promotions... serious.

:D

Partial timelines:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timelin...ber_11_attacks
http://www.ctv.ca/CTVNews/World/2011...-events-11908/
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/0...9&title=759_am
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-14681384

Better, more fully sourced timeline:
http://www.historycommons.org/timeli...of_9_11_events


Actually, the FAA had radar contact with the flights, just not the more detailed transponder information. I think it was NEADS who couldn't pin point radar info on their monocromatic displays...

But you say on one hand that they were over-staffed and doubly ready because of the exercises on one hand, and then that that were "completely unprepared" for events they had previously drilled for... so which is it?

Fair enough, but when notified (and let's include the Air National Guard and other agencies that were notified and quite vigilant when Payne Stewart went off course) they are usually there. Where were they four times on 9/11?

What you say sounds reasonable, but doesn't follow 9/11 Commission testimony.

Despite this highly defined chain of command, or perhaps because of it?, military response that day (and lack of availability of head contacts, absence and such, etc...) was null.

And nobody has responded or asked about Cheney changing the chain of command before 9/11...

Being "caught with their pants down" goes against their prior training and specific exercises, though... and the fact that they were in the FAA chain of notification makes them responsible for reacting to reports of errant aircraft, etc...

I mean to imply that while NORAD's particular exercises don't seem out of place that day, their occurrence at the same time as so many other drills, spontaneous, pre-scheduled and rescheduled, contributes to an environment of confusion that day that goes against proclaimed uber-readiness...

Between the first notification of a problem and the last crash an hour and a half or more later (and how could they know there weren't more at this point?), they should have been increasingly aware and ready - but weren't.

And two other hijacked planes were flying around for another hour...

for people who are so uninformed of actual events...they sure do have some strong convictions.

Who are you referring to?

I don't have time to go point to point this morning.

The US military was unable to respond on 9/11. Don't give me stories about drills and exercises; These are daily events. This is nothing out of the ordinary.

The FAA didn't discuss Flight 93 with the military until 9:50am. Thirteen minutes later Flight 93 crashed. The FAA didn't discuss Flight 77 with the military until 9:24am. Thirteen minutes later at 9:37 it crashed into the Pentagon. Thus, in each case the FAA failed to give the military enough warning to do anything. And all of this is kind of pointless anyhow - what did we expect the military to do? Standing orders were to escort hijacked planes; Shooting them prior to that morning wasn't an option.

Then factor in the mass confusion and...

This is why I feel so strongly about this. Every point you bring up about 9/11 is quick explained and shot down. You make points that sound horrible such as "They planes were up for hours, why didn't the military stop them" but the truth is in all four cases the military was given information too late to react.

Ok, so they weren't available on 9/11. Why they were not has never been adequately responded to beyond "failure of imagination" and despite drills and exercises to the contrary.

Shoot down orders aren't in question here anyhow... and I don't know the minutes you're referring to specifically. I just know that from first notifications by anybody to anybody else, there were very little response actions and recognition of those.

I don't know what "standing orders" were or are... but it seems they're to assist when notified.

... and we have an excuse for all the failures, military and otherwise, that day?

The military's responses on these matters have been rebutted, I think.

And al the coincidences and what not that I bring up give a point to the conspiracy theorists and such - those who doubt the official story, at any rate.

Every point I've personally brought up about that day have not been "shot down".

• The presence of molten metal under the rubble
• The presence of aerosolized iron in the dust
• The presence of thermate in the dust
• The presence of explosions before the impacts and.or collapses
• And more...

It seems to me that many of the good questions about that day and the popularly accepted theory just don't get much air time or consideration...

:D

We discussed this. Metal melts. You give me a lighter and I'll find something in my house that will melt. Give me a two week fire underground in a city of fifty thousand, and we'll find lots of metal to melt. There was an underground fire for two weeks; They mapped this out from airplanes.... Why does this surprise you that there was molten metal?

Why is this even up for discussion? Iron? Iron is in nearly everything, form printer ink to breakfast cereal. Aerosolized? Tons of crap got demolished. If there wasn't aerosolized iron I'd be surprised.

We discussed this in depth. Thermate was used in construction, in phone banks, electrical conduits, and in sub stations - which the WTC complex was built over. Why does this surprise anyone?

There was explosions everywhere that day. They started at the moment of impact. Anyone who tells you otherwise is wrong, plain and simple.

There was a subway station at the WTC. Do you think they heard it sixty floors above them, and six floors underground? Or do you think the first they heard about it was when fireballs reached the lobby or lower levels?

eleven fitty .............conspiracy theorists unite

http://visibility911.com/blog/wp-con...go-smaller.jpg

http://www.rense.com/general32/Damage9.jpg

http://jpdesm.pagesperso-orange.fr/p...photorotor.jpg

http://files.abovetopsecret.com/imag...57/shot07a.jpg

http://911myths.com/assets/images/db...Debris_111.jpg

http://jpdesm.pagesperso-orange.fr/p...rpiececomp.jpg

http://cdn-www.cracked.com/articleim.../pentagon1.jpg

Where is the plane? Buried in the rubble of the Pentagon?

You mean there are no burned parts, besides the burned parts?

Hey look... another conspiracy to make a plane disappear by creating the appearance it crashed and burned.

Where did they hide the plane and passengers?

OBVIOUSLY they'll never tell us.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-T5CuTnc4h9...H1-x-large.jpg

Ohh... where'd the bulk of the plane go after bursting into flames and in spite of fire crews spraying it down with foam? Almost like it disappeared ... clearly a conspiracy.

http://www.debunking911.com/images/runwayfire6.jpg

A short Flash of the Pentagon Strike from a fair few years back now, not sure if everyone saw it back then like I did

http://www.pentagonstrike.co.uk/flash.htm

At this point, why? All you guys are gonna do is try to poke holes in it. "See the upper part of the flame, that blue stuff, that must be part of the drone remote control". You'll find something that looks odd.

I thought they released the video and it was so crappy it was worthless?

JC/PJ/A488,

At least these days they would have constructed a film set in advance, like they have for Libya, Syria and India (coming soon)

It did. You ignore any and all facts that dispute what you want to believe. It left a trail of damage right up to impact with the building. It sheered off a number of light poles, touched the roof of a taxi and wiped out some shit on the lawn (electrical transformers or whatever they were that are in the above images).

Plenty of eye witnesses also say it was a plane. Of course, they don't count right?

Dude, you guys just make shit up.

He flew right in front of a major highway and interchange and was witness by a many many more people than the few weirdos that said it was a missile.

Of course, all the firefighters, EMTs etc which responded are liars too.

5 light poles hit (haha.. by a "missile"):

http://www.davesweb.cnchost.com/approach.png

http://www.davesweb.cnchost.com/pole3.jpeg

http://www.davesweb.cnchost.com/pole4.jpeg

http://www.davesweb.cnchost.com/pole2.jpeg

http://desmond.imageshack.us/Himg25/...jpg&res=medium

one of the kids dylan avery behind the 9/11 conspiracy doc loose change - which to a large part was a main popularizer of the 9/11 conspiracy - even renounced it all when investigating and researching "pentagate" for a new movie. he just ran into so many eyewitnesses that he realized he was wrong.

Dylan says that there is a conspiracy, but he doesn't know to what extent. He values his life I guess, he knew he was on a hit list,

'Loose Change' filmmaker charged with heroin sale
http://thedailystar.com/localnews/x1...th-heroin-sale

And a few years before

Korey Rowe Released from Jail
Intervening Phone Calls Pressure Army to Free Loose Change Producer
http://www.jonesreport.com/articles/..._released.html

http://www.cbn.com/CBNNews_Files/ima...ifeThreats.jpg

he explained why he was wrong. that is it.

it is predictable that you distort reality and facts to fit your preconceptions. that is what you do. that is your laughable method for finding the "truth."

good luck with that path.

Even...
 

Even paranoid people have enemies!

People, stop posting facts. Conspiratards hate those things.

[QUOTE=Jesus H Christ;18841596]

Witnesses also said it was a military plane or drone. Are they lying? Or are your witnesses lying? Or are all the witnesses who watched the plane hit the Pentagon lying?

Seems that right now, its mostly you thats lying.

You're so full of shit and lying again. 10 years later and I still remember people giving their accounts. Including the driver of that taxi in the above photos.




Yeah... a missile that's a 18 inches wide can hit 5 light poles over 100 feet apart and apparently was the slowest traveling missile ever seen, violating the laws of physics and principles of aerodynamics while still maintaining its flight properties.

The magic missile theory. Got it.

:cool-smil:costumed87:fart:costumed87

Wow, youre so smart at all this internet stuff, I really can't believe you just said that. Its just flat out false.

You posted a statement which was immediately proved wrong by listing hundreds of eye witness accounts which are on record. No need to defend your position with abuse.

I don't need to 2012 already posted it in his post.

I will now STFU

Whatever the fuck your problem is right now, I really couldnt care less and Ill post whenever the I feel like posting, thats what a message board is for.

You must be embarrassed I guess, I even complimented you in my first post.

everyone get fucked!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

There is plenty of evidence that a plane hit the pentagon, and no evidence that it was a missile or anything else.

Talk to mediaguy - you can both enjoy each others nonsense on the subject. Seriously, its been 10 years already, and there's nothing that points to anything other than what was found. A plane hit the pentagon. Planes hit and caused the destruction of WTC 1 & 2. Debris damaged WTC7 enough to collapse it. No controlled demolition, no silly pre-9/11 thirmite crap. So much silliness. The world is round. Man has walked on the moon. The world is exactly as it appears. Nuff said.

http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHART...witnesses.html

from 2012 post

all facts are valid. that's why they are called facts. :pimp especially if you're trying to get to the truth in a massive shitpile

:2 cents:

You. I mean, English is your first language correct. American school systems suck but surely not that bad that you don't understand "you're lying".

You said there were no traces of the plane or debris - Lie
You said there were not witnesses that didn't say it was a missile - Lie

You then spin it around and ask 5 more retarded questions to draw attention from the fact that you lied.

:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh


This is NOT how Jesus should be acting.
:2 cents:

He got caught out but instead of acting like a man and moving on he decided to throw a hissy fit like an emotional little bitch. Class.

Translation: "I told several obvious lies. They were then proven to be lies, so as a response, I continue to spin out of control, pose questions irrelevant to those lies to change the subject... then not feeling like i've done enough to distract others from the fact that i'm full of shit, i start challenging that guy who busted me to "threaten" me and talk about other posters, Xrumer and even more irrelevant shit". For good measure, i'll keep accusing the other guy of "coming unglued" as if that makes sense"

:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh

You lied several times.

You got busted.

Pictures, audio, video and eye witness accounts which you said don't exist, aren't "my theories"

I don't need to do your assigned homework to know you lied.

It's no more complicated than that. :1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh

http://www.funnyanimalsite.com/pictures/Whaaa.jpg

Most secure building in the world? How many people work there?

I'm unsure why the FBI has not released the video of the plane flying into the Pentagon. Those couple of frames were pure comedy. Release the full video, put it to bed.

Until that happens, I'm going to stick with being unsure what hit the Pentagon. Planes hit the twin towers, that is clear, but until they release the video of the Pentagon, I have no choice but to be skeptical. Maybe it was a plane. Maybe it wasn't. If it's not a big deal and it is what you say it is, why hide the footage of every CCTV cam in the area? Doesn't make sense. Their actions make it appear to be something other than what it may be.