Jdoughs

50 purging of the industries.

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Socks

I think PPS on sites like RK's did a huge job on us all. Their networks are so damned good nowadays.. A password to their sites is a valuable commodity. They have tens of thousands of people rebilling like clockwork, and as affiliates we got paid once on them, years ago.

I firmly believe that a single pass to RK's network will cover the average porn consumer's needs forever. Everywhere else they look will pale in comparison, and they'll give up and always go back to RK.

Network sites we can't cookie or promote as affiliates, like BangBros.com.. They're affiliate killers too. Many sponsors are doing their best to steal affiliate sales in this way, by getting people to type in their network site into the URL and not passing a cookie.

I've been looking at the Reality Cash sites, and they have the "reality gang" network. All their tours scream about it at the top, but you can't click to the Reality Gang site. You CAN promote it in this case. However what they want is the customers to see the $8 price tag in the big header advertisement, and think "oh I should check that out" and when it doesn't click, they just type in realitygang.com and boom, my customer is now stolen. Hey, if I'm wrong, then why isn't it clickable? They could make it clickable, and pass my code through, and I'd get Reality Gang sales.. But they don't....

I also blame google.

They're the ones who spam the first 5 pages of every keyword with warez, torrent, tube and spam sites.

If they took more care with their results I think it would make a big difference.

Also I think saturation.

However, I also believe paysites are a quality product that aren't going anywhere anytime soon.

flpartyduo2

to one degree or another it's ALL of the above. However we still make a VERY good living from the biz

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JBlack

There has always been free content on the web... but never to the extent there is today. Back in 00 u had to know how to use torrent sites n such to get get full length stuff.

Nowadays its only one click away, literally. Just get to one of them sites and hit "play" for full length movies.

Back in the days free content was a 16 pic galley and/or a 30s-1min clip.

Free content today its FULL LENGTH ...

People back then were enticed to buy a membership cause u just can't fap to a 30-1min clip but you CAN w a ful length video.

I have to agree that we also have to account for the recession but we just can't say that "there has always been free content, so that can't be it!"

Jakez

Yes, many people saying it's a combination of things, of course it is, but the topic of the thread is which one do you think is the MOST severe. Which I think is the lack of peoples funds. Free content and the rest IMO take a back seat to the fact that people are strapped for cash and have to settle for the free stuff.

A relative of mine has a house in Vegas and went to casinos almost daily. She had to sell her house and move because she could no longer afford her mortgage right now. Don't underestimate the financial stupidity of people.

Before tubes existed these people were most likely still jerking off to free porn they found somewhere, it's just "tubes" today because well.. it's the best free porn there is. Like you said, if they want something specific they WILL pay for it.

About the getting fucked on billing. Yes that is true, but ask anyone about any billing for anything be it cellphone bills, power bills, etc. they will all complain about something and say they got fucked over somehow. Yes I agree the porn billing is more fucked up and mischievous but it's something that is apparent in nearly everything consumers are paying for.

---

In a world moving fast towards higher and higher definition media, people are going to pay for large HQ videos, as if they don't already, something tubes won't want to offer because the bandwidth bills will be monstrous so they need to compress.

Let's say just about everyone stopped paying for porn and only visited tubes for their fix, all paysites would stop making money and eventually close, they wouldn't be able to fund their tubes anymore and affiliates running tubes would have nowhere to send the buyers and wouldn't be selling traffic anymore either because if no one was buying anything then what's the point in buying the traffic? Producers would close shop and the porn that is out there right now would slowly become dated, all of a sudden there will be a demand for up-to-date porn and people will pay for it. Do you see where this is going? There will ALWAYS be paying paying for porn.

Even if the porn surfing population started cutting the producers out of the equation and there was suddenly a surge of user generated porn of people recording themselves and submitting for the masses to watch, there would still be those who want to see a specific fetish.

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18teens

1) economy
2) unemployment
3) lack of credit
4) surfer mistrust
5) scamming programs
6) credit card scrubbing
7) free porn
8) saturation
9) tubes

$5 submissions

Good point. The GFYer named sortie made the same point--it's all about SITE QUALITY. During times of transition, using the same old formula sites (slick tour, shitty members areas) won't work anymore. Those who focus on QUALITY and user EXPERIENCE will be the ones left standing.

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klinton

it's very simple..why buy anything, if everything is for free ?

Paul Markham

These two have it. In the 15 years I've been around the Internet what has been the innovation on the product? Faster speeds, crisper images and sharper video. And more content.

When it came to giving content away for free we were doing everything we could think of to put more content under the nose of buyers.

If you want a buyer to keep buying the same product month after month you have to give him some very good reasons. And most sites don't. The content is all the same, the models are faking it and the shooting is often so poor and lacking in innovation the user does not want a months worth of it. The reasons are simple, the cost of content plummeted to a level where good shooters were leaving the industry, steering clear of the Net or working to a level that did not allow them to produce top quality scenes that were different.

Dean Capture recently said in his thread he shoots 4 solo girl scenes, with video, in a day. Well this is the TRUTH. You can't shoot that level and make it right at 4 a day. And there are shooters doing 5 or 6 a day and the quality goes down even faster.

As for it all being available for free on a Tube. So why does everyone still try selling what's free on Tubes? Give the customer more than what he gets on a Tube and he might think of buying.

That might take innovation and adaptation of the product. Guess it won't happen then.

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Fabien

The number one reason and f*ck all the other ones is the FREE issue.

Someone that needs to drink but has no cash, finds a way, someone that needs drug and has no cash FINDS A WAY.

The same goes with porn. If it wasn't free everywhere, people would buy it PERIOD. They would find a way to pay for it.
Of course the other issues would hurt but not as bad as it is right now.

Coup

I blame obama and socialism

Jakez

Couldn't be more wrong, your post contradicts itself a few times..

Well no shit, but if they did have cash they would buy the drinks and/or drugs... umm...

IDK if you noticed but beer and drugs aren't free everywhere..

You're trying to say the mass of free content is the problem but the real problem is the 'no cash' so the people are forced to goto the free content. Get it?

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Pandemos

But there's been free porn all over the place for years. If what you're saying is true, how did any of us ever make any money?

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GUNNER

Big difference between "free porn" of 2001 and 2010... correction, make that a INCREDIBLY MASSIVE difference. Free content from newsgroups, torrents, TGP, and MGP, all pale in comparison to the ease of use and availability of a tube.

I love it when adult webmasters say it's not the tubes and torrents because there has always been free content. It clearly illuminates those who have no clue. Or at least those who probably aren't college educated or at least haven't ever had a class in business.

Go ask a dozen guys where they get their porn. I've got $50 that says over 90% will mention one of the biggest tubes. Or think of this analogy. What if McDonald's and Wendy's started to give away their burgers for free? What would happen to sales at Carl's Jr., In and Out, Burger King..? Would you tell them it's just the recession and they need to innovate? That they should try and come up with a reason to make customers buy? You can't give something away for free in mass quantities and expect it to not impact sales. That's part of the law of supply and demand.

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Paul Markham

You must have missed the news. Brazzers sold their network of sites for $120 million. Who in their right mind would pay that for a network of sites relying on people who don't pay and won't pay?

Shoots the "Too much free content" excuse in the foot.

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Pandemos

Maybe, but what guy goes out looking to pay for porn? At what time in history would those guys have answered, say, "I surf around the porn sites until I find a site I like then I pay for a subscription."?

A guy doesn't know he's going to pay until he sees something that makes him think paying is a good idea.


If the amount of free content available was really the problem, then things would be much, much worse than they are now. But this industry is still generating billions every year despite the vast amounts of content out there. So what exactly are people paying for?

Well, they think they're paying for content, but what they're really paying for is a delivery mechanism, a mechanism that supplies them with something very specific that they want. We're not selling content, we're selling ease of access, organisation, regularity of new content and so on. It's a distinction lost on most people, but it's an important one.

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Tam

I agree totally with this.....

I live in a pretty small community with a College in it and business and homes are closing down and going up for sale all around me. If they can't keep their homes, they sure as hell are going to struggle buying or paying for anything that isn't a total necessity right now.

I also agree with the addition of soooo many people coming online and getting the internet, and that seems to be making up the difference for our company. I tell ya, I have almost 800 friends on Facebook and a good portion of them are older guys that are just getting online, grandkids and kids are turning them onto it and they are coming in like crazy. Being as their homes are paid for, they can afford a little more on things like porn.

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Jakez

You act like every porn viewer ever has payed for porn. Are you saying if you asked a dozen guys in 2001 where they get their porn they wouldn't have said "this TGP" or something but they would have said "I pay for it from this site"? Riiiighhtttt..

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bronco67

If Nike shoes were hanging from a tree that you could easily pick them, why would you go to Foot Locker?

People aren't going to pay for what they can get for free.

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BFT3K

It is free porn that is mostly to blame... no doubt!

WAAAAYYYY too much FREE Porn!

bronco67

This is true. You had to work for your free porn back in the day...and you had to be more skilled technically than the average user. Now, there are many more "users" and the tech chasm has been bridged. Your 60 year old uncle Pete knows exactly how to find porn in 0.2 seconds.

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Argos88

no, recession is not the problem, because mainstream sales are UP...

basically the problem is because you CAN'T SELL something that people can get for free...

Sure, some sponsors still make money.. BUT instead of 1:200 like 2005.. they convert at 1:2000 average... AVERAGE... so, don't lose your time quoting me and sasying: "i convert at 1:200 with my spam sig"

...

Pandemos

Maybe back in '96, but come on, you didn't need to be Einstein to type 'porn' into AltaVista or Northern Light or whatever the fuck search engine people used back in '98 and find something to whack off to.

I remember when I first got online in '97. The very first thing I did was go to Yahoo!, look for and find porn.

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BFT3K

Did you find instant tube sites, with millions of free videos?

Of course not...

bronco67

...and you had to be smart enough to know how newsgroup readers work, and file splitting, etc, and then wait for 2 hours to watch a 10 mb crappy clip ---and also, there's been a 400% growth in the number of internet users in the last 10 years, as well as huge increases in speed and bandwidth which makes it way easier.

There's no way you can compare theft prevalence today compared to 10, or even 5 years ago.

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Jakez

The PERCENTAGE of buyers are way down, BUT, the number of internet users are way up. Although it probably doesn't level out.

Given it's porn and no one wants be seen buying it, and the fact the internet is very easy to sneak around on, I think the profits everyone used to see where way too easy and unrealistic. It isn't impossible to work in adult even right now, if there was no recession there shouldn't be many complaints.

Honestly? Because the shoes (porn) in the tree (site) are old, worn by everyone, and I have specific pair (fetish) in mind.

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Peace

Sounds right to me ) basically the whole thing together is what did it )

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Agent 488

mcdonalds gave away coffee for free. did starbucks go out of business. no. why?

Paul Markham

Go ask 100 guys and I will bet you $50 that few will admit to buying porn. No one ever admits to buying porn.

AS FOR YOUR ANALOGY ABOUT BURGERS.

THIS IS THE AGE OF THE PORN TUBE SITE. They aren't going anywhere, they will not collapse with Government laws. If the law says no porn except in member areas they will charge a lifetime membership for $1. The people who won't pay $1 can fuck off because they won't spend enough to keep the site profitable. If the law tightens up on illegal content, enough sponsors will line up to give them content to keep them going.

SO TUBE SITES AINT GOING ANYWHERE. The industry needs to wake up to that fact and start working at a solution.

The most obvious thing is if you're selling burgers and someone starts giving them away only a fool keeps trying to sell them. We keep trying to sell burgers. The clever guy gets out of the food business or he starts offering prime steaks or a lot more than just burgers.

Here are a few things to make a site more enticing.

Live shows, with and without chat. The girls, or guys for gay sites, have to be doing a real good job to keep the customers begging for more. This can be linked to 1 - 1 chat/shows at a far less price than the norm that's needed to support Tubes.

Dating sites access This can be linked to the site at a far less price than the norm that's needed to support Tubes.

Shows where the general public are let in to meet the girls and see how the sites work. Like the rest of the porn industry, that has realised getting together in a swanky hotel to chat, drink and sit by the pool isn't making them as rich as it used to. They SELL themselves to the consumer because it makes business sense.

Content. Stop putting up sets and videos that are just cloned off the same model as 90% of the other sites. Customers don't join because 90% of what we have is no better than what's on a Tube site. We sell burgers, they give them away. Only a fool keeps selling burgers, especially a months supply of them.

Join periods. Not everyone wants to join for a month. He might only want a day. Few today will pay $30 for a day. So offer him less time at a reduced price. We all know why we cling to the ship wreck of monthly joins. Pity the customer is not clinging with us. He will no longer pay to support our massive traffic bill.

And if anyone else can think of anything that will make the product more attractive to the customer that are welcome to try it.

Trust me TUBES ARE HERE TO STAY.

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kada

i didnt even know mcdonalds gave away coffee.. But who gives a shit.. TimHortons is a better example.
i can guarantee you that, if tim hortons announced on the news today that their coffee, choco, mocha & all assorted drinks were free.. then starbucks will surely be out of business...
And if they wanted to complete the nail to the coffin for starbucks.. all they have todo is adopt that latte whatever drink that starbucks is known for and give it away for free as well..

Porn is so fucking free ... Some of you need to wake the fuck up.. Majority of you are only making fucking peanuts compared to what you can be making.
I just started a business outside of the web and i am unbelievably making more money effortlessly without all the stress of blog typing, fruitless marketing etc..

Keep telling yourself that people dont have money... i dont see the bars empty around here though. I dont see hoes complaining.. so recession my ass.

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The Porn Nerd

Sales are UP UP UP!!!
What's the issue?

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icymelon

summer slow down. happens every year. but not everyone is having declining sales. the slow down can be combated.

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Agent 488

didn't expect anyone to comprehend it.

BFT3K

People pay for vices and recreation, no matter what the economy is doing.

• Liquor still sells well.
• Movie sales are up, even though movies now cost at least $10 p/ticket.
• I'm sure recreational drugs are still selling.

etc....

Porn is a vice. It would be selling much better right now, if it wasn't FREEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!

My Free Cams is not free on the tubes - and they are supposedly kicking ass, operating within the same economy as the rest of us... think about it.

wig

I have not read the rest of the thread, but I agree with you.

We are in a serious credit contraction. Mass psychology has reversed. People are saving even if they are not being forced to (ie; those who were not over leveraged, have cash / liquidity, etc.)

When credit card holders who have never been late a payment get a letter saying their credit limit has been reduced from $18,000 to $600 (because that is what they historically have spent and paid back on), it is a serious contraction of available credit.

Of course, this means more cash in bank accounts, which also means you need to make sure you are tapping payment methods that hit these accounts!

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SomeCreep

Bottom line: The porn industry made porn free.

Now we're all complaining because no one is buying.

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bdjerk

i think it because there are too many anthills in ohio.

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BFT3K

NO Doubt!

$5 submissions

It truly is a race to the bottom and a sad digital case of the Prisoners' Dillemma Game Theory.

Anyone notice the rise of HD tubes?

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Loch

no moneys in porn

err except of course the people making 6 and 7 figures a year which is a crapload

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Agent 488

gambling is down. myfreecams is a pay model. video game sales down.

GrouchyAdmin

Merchants are all but gone and charging exorbitant fees. 3rd party gateways are scrubbing and sucking shit. Once someone downloads your custom content, your $40k shoot that you were paying $50+ PPS on is on every torrent tracker known to man. Affiliates are committing even more fraud. Second verse, same as the first. Gee, what else is there?

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iseeyou

If Starbucks only sold plain,black coffee, then,yeah, I think Starbucks would be out of business now. When I go to Starbucks, I want something special. If I want, just a cup of bland,regular coffee, then any cheap place is fine with me.

Pandemos

No, but I still got off, easily. Give a guy a hundred random porn images and he'll probably find something among them to jerk off to. Just because there are millions of videos now it doesn't make it any more likely he's going to get off now than he did back then.

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Pandemos

The problem with that idea is that Tim Horton's would be a creating a demand that they couldn't supply. It doesn't take that long a queue in a coffee shop to put people off. They might actually send end up giving Starbucks more business simply because you'll actually be able to get served there.

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Paul Markham

Because that's the extent of the business acumen of most of the people peddling porn. Do they sit down and discuss how to compete with free porn, how to make their sites more attractive than a Tube site, how to give away for free or at cut prices the products the Tube need to fund them? No they decide to moan.

The time to get up and do something has been here for years and still they've done nothing.

As for the analogy of Starbucks or burgers, that shows how little they understand. You need a very expensive premises and staff to fund these places. You need very little to fund a Tube site. No one seems to have thought of that.

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$5 submissions

Another reason for low sales....... NOT ENOUGH COWBELL

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BFT3K

I almost think these posts are made, just so idiots who DO NOT produce ANYTHING, can discuss how the industry benefits from giving all of it's content away for FREE.

I'm no longer participating in these idiotic threads.

Give everything away for free, and wonder why there is no adult business soon.

Dumb-asses...

Jakez

So the producers are the only valid people in the adult industry? What happened to the salesman? Maybe I misunderstood.

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