It must be your shave week, I'm pulling 1:35 with ND this week, lol.

I'm not sending the exact same users. Read the post again. It's the same type of traffic. Learn how to read and don't make assumptions.

It looks like you really don't have anything useful to say.

I wonder how many non-adult sponsors shave... probably very few if any at all.


Jak

That is pretty heavy if it is real. From what another webmaster told me you could run a date history meaning the database was full of records making it pretty damn real.

The screenshot I saw showed that they had under 10% trial to conversion on all sites, that is real damn bad.

BTW, NOT all $30+ programs have to shave, for you guys that think they do then you have no idea what the fuck you are talking about.

The average trial to conversion is around 35%. Most billing companies will tell you this once you have done a little bit of business with them. I know a few programs/sites doing over 60%.

On that math counting cross sales, exits, upsales, e-mails, ect. A program paying $35 a signup does not have to shave if they are doing 35% trial to conversion or higher. Hell they can be doing 30% and still make money. The lower the trial to conversion the longer they have to either wait to make money back or the harder they have to shave.

I'm not saying that some programs don't shave, I am saying not all of them do. I have my picks of people that I don't think shave and I have my picks of people I think that do shave.

Just because you convert a sponsor like shit and another sponsor great does not mean the bad sponsor is shaving. Hell of a better chance that the webmaster has no fucking clue what he is doing.

We advertise most of the major programs, CEN, SilverCash, TopBucks, PlatBucks, PornKings, ect. One week from our exits I can push whatever site and the ratio just all the sudden goes to shit, this does not mean they are shaving. Normally I can just change what the text link says and the ratio goes right back to normal.

Hell I have pushed my own sites on the same type of traffic for months and then all the sudden they go to shit and then either I have to change my ads or change which front page I use. Just the way the damn net works.

Now these guys are shaving so fucking hard I can't how anyone could convert them at all. Probally why they are getting such low signups over all.

Again, I'm not saying some programs don't shave, I am saying not all do. Sign-up for one of their paysites, if they look like shit and offer shit then use your head, cause they probally are shit.

The bottom line is the money you make per click.

They have gone from 1:35 to not one sale in over 1,000 hits in 2 weeks.

Cant blame that on my text links!

best joke of the year!

Sweet idea to post the name here.

You realized it won't be spidered at that other site so...

I figure all those webmaster and customer details are in kinda good hands over at score-cash

great thread :glugglug

one thing that has been discussed is conversion ratios suddenly going to shit.

from my own experience pushing my own paysites (no affiliates) - conversion ratios are very stable. they're always changing, but it is always extremely gradual (as long as everything remains the same ie: content/design/etc).

i've never seen my conversion ratios ever make a big jump up or down, unless something was modified with the sites (just my personal experience).

Shit the shit is fucking funny!
:Graucho

Pull that pepper out of your ass....I was fucking witcha......

DynaMite

So who's gonna be the first dollars4all.com affiliate to demand their other 50% ?

I like the idea about emailing all of those members though. lol
Could make for some great Internet Eraser sales.

I have to agree with Q here. I have a couple of sponsors that simply do not shave (one has their own merch account) and my stats are rock steady rolling between a low of 1:280 and a high of 1:400 in two years of promoting these sites.

I read just a little of your post and any more I don't believe any of you big guys. So if you don't want me calling you a liar don't post. PERIOD. I saw the software posted ** ON ** this board that will let you guys ***** SHAVE ***** any % you want. Me I think you would be stupid NOT 2 use it. And I still think ALL of you LIE big time.

Thanks for the info Doc, I always love reading your posts.
What's the average number of rebills per subscriber after they convert from trial? (Not asking you to post LC numbers, but if you know the industry average that would be helpful)
I'm wondering how much of the $35 payout comes from the exits, upsells, cross sales and emails.

I promote partnership programs mostly, and I've sent traffic to ALOT of different 60/40 programs and I've noticed 2 things.

1) Signups are not worth $35. No matter how good the site's retention was compared to all the other sites out there.

2) I still make more money with partnerships, because I get SO MANY MORE joins on the 60/40 programs using the same traffic and marketing style.

so if 50% is fraud....let's say 20% is acceptable....? Are you nuts?
any shaving is fraud......and yes there is a lot of fraud going on.

It all started when some of the big guys started competing with
their partnership programs....raise the payouts....and everybody
followed......some of the big guys could do this for a while and
swallow the losses.....a lot of smaller guys died...and that was
exactly what they we're after.....it just got out of control.

But now there is no turning back anymore....webmasters are like
whores.....they go where the payouts are high.....so instead of
getting back to earth and having payouts between 35 and 45% they started shaving....how many webmasters signup for a
partnership program that has a 35% or 45% revshare......correct
almost nobody.

Now everybody is suprised and pissed off.......welcome to the real
world.....this is what you all wanted....lower payout was not good
enough.....current payouts are too high for most sites....only
someone with very high quality sites and who does huge volume
of signups might get away with...it

Coz if you want to make money like this it should mainly come
from upsales and retention.....and we all know how retentions
rates are for most sites.....they are lucky if they can convert the
trial......

DynaMite


:2 cents:

Agree:thumbsup

Thanks I'll be here all week :Graucho

Ever since that lameass response this morning, the silence from DFA has been deafening, eh?

Amen!

:glugglug

Exactly - who's going to sign up with a sponsor like Cashquest for a $28.00 pay per sign when someone else is offering $50.00.

No one stops to think how a program can offer such a high payout and it comes back to the old saying of 'if it sounds too good to be true then it probably is' but nobody sees that because they get dazzled with dollar signs.

That's a really good point.
Remember when gamma was paying $25 per trial and they never raised it even after every other pps was paying $35.

And then they would kick people out of the per sign up program and into the 60/40 program if their traffic conversoins from trial to full were horrible.

And everyone said, WOW, their conversions are awesome, but they only pay $25, I'm going to promote someone else for $35..

The problem with that (and revshare programs) - is this. (And someone else made the same point in this thread.)

Just because you remove the motivation for shaving (ie, paying webmasters more than the signup is worth causes shaving) - doesn't mean they won't shave.

So, Sponsor A could say "We pay $25 because that's all we can afford to pay without shaving, we're honest" - there's still nothing to stop them padding their bottom line by shaving.

Same with Revshare, just because there's no motivation for them to shave, doesn't mean they will. A crook is a crook, they will steal whether they have to or not.

The problem is not the competition - it's the crooks. Get rid of them and the problem goes away.

That won't happen until these companies open themselves up for regular financial and software audits, and that just ain't gonna happen.. Too many "just hit delete" and "it's all about the bottom line" people.

If you want to do something about it, simply don't do biz with shavers. Start your own niche site. Send it to your buddies niche site, just don't send the big shavers your traffic.

Cheers,
Backov

The script was offered for testing some time ago. You are right about it being posted on this board. Here's the link
CC PROCESSING PROGRAM

When i launched my program i had a teir system
1-10 sales $25
11-20 30$
21-30 35$
so on and so forth..

i soon realized when a few affiliates got passed the 40 sales mark and were making 40$ per sale that i was loosing my ass QUICK!

how i resolved it:

1-30 sales= $25 per free signup
anything over 30 sales= $30 per free signup

keep inmind these are free trials.. but the crossells and exits make it work out fine..

I make jack shit on an affliliate initially. The only place i make money is on rebills.

If you are lucky enough to break even on paying out your affliates, then you are doing good.. aslong as you dont shave!!

So like TheDoc says, it is very possible to pay 30$ per signup even on free trials and not be shaving.. the shaving only comes in when people get greedy.

:glugglug

Do you really think that John Ashhahahahaha gives a shit about adult webmasters?

Lenny2,

From what I understand from a few billing companies the industry average from trial to conversion is around 35%. Most make it seem like it's a little above that. From month to month after that is normally is good but that does depend on the site. Our big dick sites do better than our boob site but that probally is because our boob site is not as large as our big dick sites.

Exits, 60% (or so depending on how the exit pops) will view the exit out of the people that VIEW it 1:1500-2000 will signup. So if a company pushes 500k views to the exit that is around 250 signups daily to other sponsors paying $35-$40 a signup. Around that, it does depend on the exit and how the shit pops.

Numbers are simple, if the paysites arnt trash they can see numbers like:

- Average of 35% or higher, some companies push over 60%.
- Up to 30% will take a cross sale and member sale.
- A low of 5% will take a up sale, videos based on the same niche is a higher %.
- 60% of the visitors see the exit, 1:2000 people that view the exit will signup.

------------------

jimmyf,

I did state that I do think some do, and some don't. That is what "I THINK" It's not a MUST factor in some cases and others it is. I think the most part it's a GREED factor. Why I said look at the sites you are pushing. Same holds for a 65% recurring program. If you think a program might be shaving you then don't use it.

Posting software that shaves doesnt mean shit to me as we don't use that software. Our's is custom coded in house.

-------------------

Being a paysite owner and a webmaster that pushes other programs my worry is not a stupid shave. If I don't make the money I want, I leave the damn program. Only time I would care is if it it's like the posted above ass hole. What really worries me is webmaster fraud. Every single week we have people frauding us. Webmaster fraud is getting worse and worse. Those fraud numbers kill our real numbers.

Open a program, bring it to 1000 signups a day and see how many webmasters fraud you. I bet at any time we have 5 people trying to cheat the system. All I can is thank god epoch watches that shit as close as we do.

Again, if you think a program is shaving you, then don't use them. If you think every major webmaster program shaves then I need to talk to Massive Cock to write a theory up on how the gov is in on the deal. :)

At the end of the day the only thing that maters is the $$$ shave or no shave.

Correct but let's be honest......how many sites are that good that
they really can make profit on rebills......just sign up for some sites
and look around........not a lot where you would say.....I can see
members stay here for 3 or 4 months

DynaMite

3-4 months x 40$ PER member=blingbling :)

3 months x $40=$120
$120 x say 2000 members= $240k- 20% for expenses and processing=$192k

Seems right to me.

It is stealing no matter how hard people try to make it not seem that way. A crook shouldnt be left unpunished to take advantage of the next unknowing victim.

How are you making jack shit? You've got 2 cross sells, for approx $4.95 and between $15 and 20 per, ezclick cross sell to another company...

And you're only paying $25? lol. =)

You've got 2 rebill chances on the same person... and then an automatic $7.50 to $10 per signup... PERIOD.

Plus you dont pay on exits...

You don't have to shave the webmaster, you're already fucking the surfer.

*Edit* That made me look like I actually think Pimpdog wouldn't shave... With his personality and reputation, thats not too far outta reach... =)

not all have to shave.. BUT.. some do ?.. many do ? .. most do ?

scary shit
:2 cents:

you have no clue what you are talking about... the only thing about your post that made sense was you called me pimpdog.. atleast you knew who you were talking too. =)

They are in the Netherlands so they are outside of direct legal jurisdiction.

However I would fax in a written complaint to Ibill to the effect they are defrauding webmasters.

That's right, shaving is fraud. That it seems to be an accepted evil
doesn't make it less of a crime.

I absolutely refuse to do any programs these days that are not revshare. The majority of programs that are run by webmaster are bent in my experience.

Two things I have never understood about the adult webmaster business:

1. Why there are not audited statements hat reflect numbers verified by a reputable accounting firm....the rest of this world operates on this system so that webmasters can make informed decisions. (I prefer that Arthur Anderson not be the a auditor to facilitate the audit, tho)

2. Since no media really exists to keep large webmasters in check, why not utilize the abilities of some of the absolutely awesome hackers that frequent some of the boards and check up on these guys....hey if a guy is trying to steal from me...I want to know about it....in the real world that is the media's function. Since we don't have a real aggressive media, that requests documents or subpeona's documents from large webmaster firms...we basically operate in the dark.

3. Force large program to post stats on their overall programs conversion rates, shave, and profitability. Most of the large corps are "closely held" type corps, but they still are subject to federal laws that can require them to disclose the type of information that we need. You don't see GM hiding their stats, they issue a quarterly report audited that reflects what the state of their business is, for better or worse.

Just some thoughts.

http://news.spamcop.net/pipermail/sp...er/018940.html

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&i...=sexymail4free

lol

and?

Stop it!!!!!! I cant take anymore my sides are hurting!!!!! ROFL

:thumbsup

the reason GM shows there books is they are a publically traded company

most adult companies are privately held



I know our policy is if the day ever comes that we need to shave we are just going to close up shop and shut down the program

we are a very honest company with a high standard for integrity and honesty.

There is no reason to shave if you have a good business model

Tanker

There goes you ever saying you havent spammed without double optin lists. =)

Check out the first one, check out the 2nd one...

Spamming a pinkfloyd mailing list? tsk tsk. =)

Yet even more proof you're a fuckin liar, and noone should trust your ass with their hitbot traffic. =)

pinkfloyd? are you kidding me? you have your urls mixed up homie.

I only mail porn baby. 100% XXX related advertising. If you are going to try and hang me.. atleast find something that anyone gives a shit about...

hahaha =)

Check the 3rd link on google... and explain how you got an opt in, to the pinkfloyd fan club mailing list?

Are you saying thats not your penis ad? The one that says at the bottom, unsubscribe at sexymail4free?

Lol... here we go again, trey trying to cover up his bullshit spamming, scamming, and lying personality. =)

the pinkfloys shit isnt mine homie.. the penis one is though.

do your research before you go spouting off at the mouth kid.

I see the pinkfloyd email address.. what does that mean? that some guy has an email address with pinkfloyd in it?

so what?

you make it sound like i mailed out a pinkfloyd list or something. you have a unique way of explaining the facts.. you mention about 20% of the truth and then make up the rest to make things look different than they really are.

so good, it needs to be posted again:

http://64.38.235.153/dollars4all.jpg

:glugglug

Jesus christ, go back and get your GED already... Take a look at link 3, its an mail archive from the pinkfloyd fan club.

from: [email protected]

Mailadmin.org is you.

Sending to an AUTOMATED pink floyd mailing list, [email protected]

How exactly can an automated mailing list, double opt into your spam? =)

It cant.

So how exactly are you "only" doing double opt in traffic, if you're spamming mailing lists with pornography? Especially when it doesnt even relate to porn?

read my post dipshit.

rofl... =) Ya, its not an automated list or anything... Jesus christ you're a fucking bad liar...

Yup, trust this guy with your money folks, he'll pay up... :1orglaugh

heh

i feel bad for you, i really do. If you spent this much time focusing on making money rather than trying to dig up dirt from well over 6 months ago.. you might get somewhere in life.

Nice fucking thread.. are there any per click sponsors left other then ap and the blind link shit like fpc and nexcash? spam me