emailaddresses, usernames/passes no we all did.....:1orglaugh

b.t.w. I'm selling the file....I have it on HDD.....any takers?

DynaMite

Nope, not the only one. :)


Jak

I see what you saw.

SpaceAce

Hahahaha... "Shave = Yep"

Oh man I wish someone would butt fuck these guys seriously.

Balls!!! Ah, oh well.

I remember something like this happened with Dirty Dollar a while back. Course the files weren't on their server in this instance. In the end, it was some rogue employee from what they said.

Even more than the webmasters, I feel bad for the customers. Now their names and email addresses are floating around attatched to "shemale" and "grannies" sites. We have a hard enough time getting people to get out their credit cards without punishing them with public humiliation.

SpaceAce

Those have to be the WORST conversions known to man.

anyone who promoted them?

DynaMite

:ak47: Fuckers

I tried 1 year ago for 1 week. No signups.

Andre

I agree, the names should be removed.

I wonder why...

SpaceAce

Very, very disturbing! It's something you've always wondered about.
Like looking up at the sky and seeing that it's blue and someone keeps telling you it is red - over and over and over again.
After awhile, you start believing it. :Hollering

Live & Learn

HEY! I'm not the only person who has that name you know! In fact, it's very common in some parts of the world, I'm sure. And the e-mail address is just a one-in-a-million coincidence, I swear!!!

<SMALL>oh, that's not what you noticed??? <CENTER>nevermind...</CENTER></SMALL>

Fucking crooks... wait, let me rephrase that... Fucking Stupid Crooks!

I had just finished building some avs and free sites for them but hadn't submitted them yet. Not going to now.

I thought this was a good topic for my first post..

I really hope for their sakes that the wembasters use different ftp passwords. It will be interesting to see what comes of this.

I don't have accounts at very many webmaster boards, but those of you who do should spread this around. Considering that they shut it down and aren't saying anything, they sure look guilty.

SpaceAce

this is why i like to sell traffic per impression. you're putting a ton of trust into these paysites hoping they pay what they say they do.

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:1orglaugh

Ummm, guys why the fuck are you SOOOO surprised, we ALL KNOW that EVERY damn sponsor with big payouts is shaving like a bastard. They have to make money some how don't they?

I mean Joel from CEN admited they shave too, big deal. I'm sure there shave stats are a big more advanced that this dollars4u stats though.

Sammy

it must really suck to be the owner of dollars4all today

Yup, one of those days you would probably rather stay in bed

I see they weren't paying on ANY of the 900 number signups..

'One Time No Number 2002-03-03 EXPIRED Web900 34.95 0.00 34.95 Nope Nope Yep'

It can't suck that bad. He's shaved off over $14,000 this week alone, and we're only four days in.

SpaceAce

OK let's see...

Quick calculation (disregarding processing fees, chargebacks, things like that):

100 3 day trial signups for Ams. Teens x $2.95(cost per trial) = $295.00 total sales
50% conversion (say half of the trials convert to monthly) = $1747.50 converted sales
100 webmaster payouts of $30.00 = $3000.00 payout
$1747.50(Actual sales) + $295.00(initial trial sales) - $3000.00(payout) = -$957.50 (negative!)

Besides shaving, how the hell else would these companies be able to pay out so much on trial signups? In the regular world, if I paid a salesman $50.00 for every $3.00 item he sold for me, I wouldn't be in business very long. Why is it that people let this shit go in the adult world? Strange.

Jak

I will keep this short and simple as you know that due to this "friendly" visit to one of our servers we now have alot on our hands at the moment.
This script was there to check on weather sales were from real customers or not. Sales from bouncing confirming emails, non-matching ip-addresses and bad countries were "shaved".
We know from our history that these sales always were non-recurring and full sales were due to be refunded or chargebacked.

Your logic is flawed. If you pay a guy $50.00 for selling a single $3 item, you're out of business. However, that isn't the model we're working with. This is more like selling a guy a $3 item that, if he forgets about it for a couple of days, will become a $40 item. Also, when you sold him the item, you threw in a shitload of catalogs of similar items for him to look through and you'll pick up extra money if he buys any of that (upsells).

Also, don't forget that you are paying your salesman $50 for selling a $3 item, but he also gets $50 is he sells a $500 item. A lot of those sales were multiple-month sales, rebills, whatever. A lot of them were showing several hundred dollars charged to the customer with the same small payouts to the webmasters.

SpaceAce

because you're paying for a customer. its up to the site to retain. if the avg surfer that joined the site for a trial stayed 4 months that would be 142.75 in membership fees alone. then add on any upsells in the members area and it would be well over 150 per. that 30 bux paid to webmasters isn't a whole lot.

Huh?

:helpme

A good time to cancel that Internext trip

Hehe I knew someone would tag me on this, but that's why I said "Quick calculation". :Graucho

What are the actual percentages of people who forget to cancel? What are the actual percentages of people who retain memberships at most of these sites? Come on, we've all visited some of these paysites at one time or another and taken a quick peek inside their members area. Most of them blow chunks and I can't imagine that many people sticking around.

I was going to go into details on how the salesman I paid $50.00 to would get me customers that I could upsell to, etc. but in the long run the percentages just wouldn't ever work out high enough in my favor. That's why shaving goes on.

If you're going to tag me and say my logic is flawed, and that the companies actually do make money from retaining memberships, upselling, etc. then you're going to also state that shving doesn't happen. Otherwise the execution of my logic might have been screwy, but the end result is the same. You can't make an honest profit by paying out 10 times more than what you take in.

Jak

I was always under the impression that you would get paid for everything and if a webmaster had an abnormally bad conversion ratio that you would lock the account, investigate and withold payment if necessary.

Not just shave 59% of all sales. THAT seems like a very high percentage of traffic that is coming in from "bounced emails, non matching ip-addresses and bad countries.

Adding up to what??? $14,000 just the few days of this week alone!!

Yeah, hand caught in the cookie jar comes to mind :)

Sammy

double post

Liar liar pants on fire!
:321GFY

Now you are wrong. I mean the dat fields are stated that way yes. But when you would press the submit button you will se that this week only 350 dollars is charged.

The 14000 bucks is over whole 2002 so far....So they don't sell much at all..

Andre

I'm sure John Asshahahahaha at the US Justice Department would love to take a look at the books of all porn site operators.

Anyone want to give him a call?

Actually I do...I'd love for them to go in and shut some of these big motherfuckers down.

RICO act on them like a mother fucker...seize their cars...their houses...anything and everything they "earned," or purchased with their illgotten gains.

This sure will keep some of the smaller guys from trying the same kinda bullshit.

:2 cents:

that's crazy shit... was searching around for sponsors guess I can 'shave' them off my list... thanks guys :(



http://www.wetwords.com
We take your wettest dreams and put them into words.

Ummm, I've ran paysites for many years and I know that most $40 signups have fucking terrible rebill rates. I'd say most big paysites with mainly plugin content would have rebill rates of 1.5 months per customer, which an't great.

Sammy

What a load of crap :mad:

Why all the fuzz?? We all know that they shave right?? I want to know who shaves the most!!

That's got to be the biggest crock of shit I've seen yet.

I mean its not bad considering the amount of time you had to make some shit up, but its still a crock of shit.

Translation:

'Guilty'

Then why is the page called the 'Dollars4All PROFIT Calculator' and not the 'Dollars4All Real Customer Sale Checker'.

Besides looking through the emails associated with shaved sales doesn't seem to reveal any corelation at all. Nor is there any data associated with IP addresses logged in the script and a large percentage of the shaved sales recur, some for as long as a year.

If you're gonna lie to webmasters, at least think up something clever. Not only are they offended that you stole their money, they are even more offended that you think they are so fucking dumb that they'd believe that bullshit line.

It's threads like this that make it all worth it.

I love to see cheating scum (yes, that's you dbarry and dollars4all) - get caught redhanded.

Now let's get the hackers on busting the rest of them. ;>

Cheers,
Backov

1) Ibill's Webmasters don't receive bouncing confirmation emails because from line of confirmation emails is @ibill.com

2) Bad countries?? What are they? Ibill scrubs all cards from all "bad" countries. You can't have customers from those countries.

3) Non-matching IP's? What other IP are you comparing your customer's IP to?

4) Let's suppose what I wrote above is not correct... But you've shaved 53%, so this must be your refund&CB ratio as to your saying. How on earth Ibill still keeps you?

GREED.

Webmasters that sign up for 80% revshare or $50. trial payouts are just asking to be screwed. But from their own greedyness they ignore the obvious signs of shaving and fraud.

Don't like it? Start promoting sponsors that are paying out a reasonable amount that makes logical sense. Go with the sponsor that's paying an honest 50-60% that actually retains members and treats their sites like a true business.

Then there are those that say, "who cares if they shave, as long as I get my money". Bullshit. It's fraud, nothing less. If your sponsor is willing to shave your sales just to be able to offer you 80% revshare or whatever, what else are they doing you don't know about? If they're defrauding you, they're probably screwing their members too.

These aren't businessmen, they're simply greedy crooks running adult sites.