Question about the original Terminator 1 the 80's one - Page 2 - GoFuckYourself.com

AAB · 05-26-2009, 04:00 PM

50 terminators

gideongallery · 05-26-2009, 04:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Twistys Tim

And this has been practically proven by whom...?

since we don't know weather we live in a 4d existance or a 10d existance none has "practically proven" it

However it has been logically proven, by enstein under his duality of time.

There are only two possible outcomes either you can change the present by altering the past, or you can't change the present by altering the past.

The ultimate paradox that describes this situation is grandfather paradox.

the solution if you can alter the past is an alternative timeline where both conditions exist at the same time (10 d spacetime).

If you can't change the present by altering the past the solution is the predestination paradox, in which your actions in the past created the present you were hoping to change (4d spacetime).

since the movie had a predestination paradox it must logically be a 4d space time contruct, which precludes alternate realities since there would be no 5th dimension to for that reality to exist.

as to the arguement of free will, it exists but only forward moving timestream where cause preceeds effect. under those conditions changes you make change the world. IT only when you switch the relationship that free will disappears.

Twistys Tim · 05-26-2009, 04:44 PM

If you look at things from SkyNet's perspective -- you would see that according to all calculations traveling through time to kill Sarah Connor was a fruitless endeavor, as John's existence in Skynet's present (in 2029) was proof that Skynet was unable to affect the present by altering the past.

If indeed Skynet could have effected change, then the present it was operating in would not have contained John Connor. 45 years earlier the machine it sent back to kill his mother was unsuccessful, as John's presence in 2029 attest to. Upon inventing the the time machine -- and being defeated, Skynet would have calculated that whatever actions it may undertake in the present / past will not result in it being successful.

Now we can look at Reese and John. In John's present prior to Reese being sent back to 1984, we can say that Reese has already traveled back in time, as without that event having already occurred John could not exist. But, John could have said to Reese "there is no point in traveling back in time to stop the machine -- as I am alive in the present, and therefore the machine will fail in it's attempts to kill my mother." If this were the case, and logically this is correct (John does indeed exist in 2029) and Reese did not travel back in time how would John's existence be explained?

bronco67 · 05-26-2009, 05:09 PM

My mind is officially blown.

Penthouse Tony · 05-26-2009, 05:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Twistys Tim

If you look at things from SkyNet's perspective -- you would see that according to all calculations traveling through time to kill Sarah Connor was a fruitless endeavor, as John's existence in Skynet's present (in 2029) was proof that Skynet was unable to affect the present by altering the past.

If indeed Skynet could have effected change, then the present it was operating in would not have contained John Connor. 45 years earlier the machine it sent back to kill his mother was unsuccessful, as John's presence in 2029 attest to. Upon inventing the the time machine -- and being defeated, Skynet would have calculated that whatever actions it may undertake in the present / past will not result in it being successful.

Now we can look at Reese and John. In John's present prior to Reese being sent back to 1984, we can say that Reese has already traveled back in time, as without that event having already occurred John could not exist. But, John could have said to Reese "there is no point in traveling back in time to stop the machine -- as I am alive in the present, and therefore the machine will fail in it's attempts to kill my mother." If this were the case, and logically this is correct (John does indeed exist in 2029) and Reese did not travel back in time how would John's existence be explained?

I don't get why they needed Reece to be the father. The story is good enough without that. It's like they needed a compelling reason for Sarah being a single mom.

cam_girls · 05-26-2009, 05:55 PM

The moment skynet sent the terminator back in time, they should have ceased
to exist exactly as they were. The whole universe would go back in time a few
decades at that moment, and John in the future would not have had any opportunity
to send Reise back in time.

gideongallery · 05-26-2009, 06:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Twistys Tim

If you look at things from SkyNet's perspective -- you would see that according to all calculations traveling through time to kill Sarah Connor was a fruitless endeavor, as John's existence in Skynet's present (in 2029) was proof that Skynet was unable to affect the present by altering the past.

If indeed Skynet could have effected change, then the present it was operating in would not have contained John Connor. 45 years earlier the machine it sent back to kill his mother was unsuccessful, as John's presence in 2029 attest to. Upon inventing the the time machine -- and being defeated, Skynet would have calculated that whatever actions it may undertake in the present / past will not result in it being successful.

well yes and no, remember you don't know if you live in a 4d or a 10d world.
if you knew you were in a 4d world then yes the you are correct but skynet would not know yet.

Quote:

Now we can look at Reese and John. In John's present prior to Reese being sent back to 1984, we can say that Reese has already traveled back in time, as without that event having already occurred John could not exist. But, John could have said to Reese "there is no point in traveling back in time to stop the machine -- as I am alive in the present, and therefore the machine will fail in it's attempts to kill my mother." If this were the case, and logically this is correct (John does indeed exist in 2029) and Reese did not travel back in time how would John's existence be explained?

but that the point john conner does know that the universe is a 4d world (his mother wrote him a letter explaining to him at the end of the movie), he knows that if he does not send his father into the past the consequence would be a complete destruction of everything (think universe recreating itself at that second over and over again--> an infinite number of big bangs happening at that second).
so he has to send his father back in time.
if he didn't send kyle into the past everything would cease to exist, so the situation you are talking about would never happen, that the consequence of not following thru with a PP.

2MuchMark · 05-26-2009, 08:38 PM

Gideongallery:
You impress me, sir. Have you ever seen "Primer"? (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0390384/) one of the smartest sci-fi time travel movies ever made.

Everyone else: There's a very simple way to imagine time travel and a way to allow movies to tell their stories: Multiple Universes.

Arny did not change history when he first materialized back in 1984 in the first Terminator movie. By beating up and stealing the clothes from the punks and killing MULTIPLE Sarah Connors, he created an alternate universe. In HIS universe, none of these things happened. Skynet was born and destroyed the world. In the new universe, Skynet was still born, but in a different way and maybe by different people.

In Back to the Future, Marty goes back in time. The moment he hits 1 of the 2 pine trees, he creates an alternative universe where "Twin Pines Mall" was named "Loan Pine Mall". Etc.

The multiple Universe idea is a plausible idea accepted by most of today's Einsteins as Gideon already mentioned, AND, it makes the whole causality paradox thing moot.

gideongallery · 05-26-2009, 08:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by **********

Gideongallery:
You impress me, sir. Have you ever seen "Primer"? (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0390384/) one of the smartest sci-fi time travel movies ever made.

Everyone else: There's a very simple way to imagine time travel and a way to allow movies to tell their stories: Multiple Universes.

Arny did not change history when he first materialized back in 1984 in the first Terminator movie. By beating up and stealing the clothes from the punks and killing MULTIPLE Sarah Connors, he created an alternate universe. In HIS universe, none of these things happened. Skynet was born and destroyed the world. In the new universe, Skynet was still born, but in a different way and maybe by different people.

In Back to the Future, Marty goes back in time. The moment he hits 1 of the 2 pine trees, he creates an alternative universe where "Twin Pines Mall" was named "Loan Pine Mall". Etc.

The multiple Universe idea is a plausible idea accepted by most of today's Einsteins as Gideon already mentioned, AND, it makes the whole causality paradox thing moot.

back to the future is based on a 10d world, it is possible to change the present by changing the past

terminator 1 is based on 4d world, it is not possible to change the present by changing the past.

forcing a 10d world onto a story that was designed to based on a 4d world cause the crappy story of t2 (temporal paradox) and needs the even crappier fix (t3).

GatorB · 05-26-2009, 09:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gideongallery

back to the future is based on a 10d world, it is possible to change the present by changing the past

terminator 1 is based on 4d world, it is not possible to change the present by changing the past.

forcing a 10d world onto a story that was designed to based on a 4d world cause the crappy story of t2 (temporal paradox) and needs the even crappier fix (t3).

You guys spend way to much time overthinking an action movie series. Either you buy the concept of time travel in a movie or you don't. If not then you wouldn't waste your time watching the movie.

it's like Back to the Future all you nerds debate the whole 4D vs 10D concept yet no matter what you completely miss the whole point that no matter what you can't make a time machine out of a Delorean. Somehow you bought into THAT idea.

Marcus Aurelius · 05-26-2009, 09:58 PM

Because it was the 80's and it kicked ass... that's why!

Meeper · 05-26-2009, 10:17 PM

The best part of people arguing over time travel is its all theories, so no one can ever be right or wrong.

Persius · 05-27-2009, 01:17 PM

Thanks for all the replies but.. pretty much now i'm even more confused

4D , 10D , paradox ....

I can't think about this anymore .. lol

Persius · 06-01-2009, 11:33 PM

bump for more terminator talk lol

chodadog · 06-02-2009, 07:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fuzebox

The storyline in T1 about John Connor sending someone back to impregnate his mother and thus father himself is pretty frustrating, but it's got nothing on T2:

Cyberdyne finds the terminator hand, and uses it to design the terminator? So technology from the future gets sent back in time to invent the future technology? I guess they also did this in Star Trek IV, but it's frustrating every time.

They kind of dealt with that in T3 by saying that it happened anyway. The hand simply sped up the process. But the technology would have been developed anyway, just on a different timescale. But yeah... the Terminator franchise is like Swiss cheese.

Pleasurepays · 06-02-2009, 07:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Persius

The whole plot of the movie doesn't make sense (time travel)

What I don't understand is that Kyle Reiss was sent from john connor from the future to
protect sarah connor and impregnate her creating John connor. the future leader of the resistance.

How is he sending Kyle ? How does that make any sense he should not be even alive? Who is his father if he is sending kyle reiss?

WTF i hate how they throw in time travel and then do whatever the fuck they want and say oh its time travel it makes sense....

these are very old logical questions and paradox's that have existed forever

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grandfather_paradox

there are many many versions and many similar dilemmas

that being said.. let it go. it's entertainment and you are talking about time travel as if its supposed to make sense. the concept most likely won't make sense in our lifetimes. its philosophy... not science. it becomes science when theories can be tested and proven.

05-26-2009, 04:44 PM	#53
Twistys Tim Confirmed User Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Twistys HQ Posts: 1,923	If you look at things from SkyNet's perspective -- you would see that according to all calculations traveling through time to kill Sarah Connor was a fruitless endeavor, as John's existence in Skynet's present (in 2029) was proof that Skynet was unable to affect the present by altering the past. If indeed Skynet could have effected change, then the present it was operating in would not have contained John Connor. 45 years earlier the machine it sent back to kill his mother was unsuccessful, as John's presence in 2029 attest to. Upon inventing the the time machine -- and being defeated, Skynet would have calculated that whatever actions it may undertake in the present / past will not result in it being successful. Now we can look at Reese and John. In John's present prior to Reese being sent back to 1984, we can say that Reese has already traveled back in time, as without that event having already occurred John could not exist. But, John could have said to Reese "there is no point in traveling back in time to stop the machine -- as I am alive in the present, and therefore the machine will fail in it's attempts to kill my mother." If this were the case, and logically this is correct (John does indeed exist in 2029) and Reese did not travel back in time how would John's existence be explained? __________________ $100 PPS Xmas Promo [email protected] ICQ 311545482 Skype timmy_vee Last edited by Twistys Tim; 05-26-2009 at 04:45 PM..

05-26-2009, 05:09 PM	#54
bronco67 Too lazy to set a custom title Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 29,032	My mind is officially blown. __________________

05-26-2009, 08:38 PM	#58
2MuchMark Videochat Solutions Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Canada Posts: 49,281	Gideongallery: You impress me, sir. Have you ever seen "Primer"? (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0390384/) one of the smartest sci-fi time travel movies ever made. Everyone else: There's a very simple way to imagine time travel and a way to allow movies to tell their stories: Multiple Universes. Arny did not change history when he first materialized back in 1984 in the first Terminator movie. By beating up and stealing the clothes from the punks and killing MULTIPLE Sarah Connors, he created an alternate universe. In HIS universe, none of these things happened. Skynet was born and destroyed the world. In the new universe, Skynet was still born, but in a different way and maybe by different people. In Back to the Future, Marty goes back in time. The moment he hits 1 of the 2 pine trees, he creates an alternative universe where "Twin Pines Mall" was named "Loan Pine Mall". Etc. The multiple Universe idea is a plausible idea accepted by most of today's Einsteins as Gideon already mentioned, AND, it makes the whole causality paradox thing moot. __________________ Custom Coding \| Videochat Solutions \| Age Verification \| IT Help & Support www.2Much.net

05-26-2009, 10:17 PM	#62
Meeper Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Beverly Hills, CA Posts: 2,642	The best part of people arguing over time travel is its all theories, so no one can ever be right or wrong. __________________ *Nick "Meeper"* Amoroso [SIZE="1"] Hustler.com / BarelyLegal.com / HustlersReviews.com / HustlerTube.com / HustlerShare.com**

05-26-2009, 04:00 PM	#51
AAB Confirmed User Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Alberta Posts: 874	50 terminators

05-26-2009, 05:55 PM	#56
cam_girls So Fucking Banned Industry Role: Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 2,968	The moment skynet sent the terminator back in time, they should have ceased to exist exactly as they were. The whole universe would go back in time a few decades at that moment, and John in the future would not have had any opportunity to send Reise back in time.

05-26-2009, 09:58 PM	#61
Marcus Aurelius No Refunds Issued. Industry Role: Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 14,809	Because it was the 80's and it kicked ass... that's why!

05-27-2009, 01:17 PM	#63
Persius Tap into MOBILE! Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Hollywood Posts: 11,779	Thanks for all the replies but.. pretty much now i'm even more confused 4D , 10D , paradox .... I can't think about this anymore .. lol

06-01-2009, 11:33 PM	#64
Persius Tap into MOBILE! Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Hollywood Posts: 11,779	bump for more terminator talk lol