killing the tubes - ideas here and now - Page 3 - GoFuckYourself.com

Denny · 03-25-2009, 12:05 AM

tube sites steal our traffic/money

Paul Markham · 03-25-2009, 12:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FightThisPatent

- post up non-adult, non-copyrighted material. The non-copyrighted part is essential, because you don't want to do an act of copyright infringement. put up clips that you created yourself is the safest.

the intent behind this:

- to catch them making editorial decisions that therefore violates "safe habor".

some tube sites will run a craigslist-like self-policing system, where users can flag a video as not being appropriate. after so many flags, a video can be knocked offline for admin review.

putting up lots of non-adult clips, could just get wiped out by a community action, but that would be case only if there was such self-policing audits. if there isn't, then it forces the tube site to do some re-coding to put it in place.

the sites that don't have this function, will end up having the non-adult stuff "pollute" the listings.

if the admins start editing out themselves, then there might be some potential action.. BUT...

only copyright holders can make the case against a tube site..

so a copyright owner who has seen their content on a tube site, has done the DMCA thing already, and is feeling frustrated.. they could try the above tactic on a tube site that doesn't have any self-policing and see if the non-adult videos come down.

if so, then the next step is to get your attorneys involved and figure out how much its going to cost you to sue them.

those that aren't copyright owners, would just end up annoying the tube sites, which is in a way, like cyberbullying....

whether through DMCA compliance, self-policing, hosting in a country that doesn't respect US copyright law,etc.. there will always be ways that the tube sites continue to survive..they are the mass market cockroaches, followed behind by their bit-torrent cousins.

for copyright owners, best bet, watermark all of your videos with your website. atleast get some exposure while your videos are being stolen.

Fight the copyright vigilantes!

With American based companies hosting with ISPs who give a shit about DMCA this will work. With the rest it will not. On so many levels. Sorry Brandon it's a non starter.

Barefootsies · 03-25-2009, 12:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ozarkz

1) Hosts protect tubes.

2) Using law and government is not going to do anything the tube sites have too many legal loop holes.

3) xxxjay made a thread the other week and he owns content.

1. You've been serving DMCA requests to the hosting, registrars, processing companies and Google (to get them removed from the index) for content copyright violations how many years now?

2. Really? Guess those I had contacted over the years must have had a slow day then.

3. Look up the meaning of 'most'. I did not say, "all", as referenced in my sentence "most of this board".

Barefootsies · 03-25-2009, 12:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

With American based companies hosting with ISPs who give a shit about DMCA this will work. With the rest it will not. On so many levels. Sorry Brandon it's a non starter.

As Paul Markham likes to say in his other posts over the years, (paraphrased) "instead of coming up with excuses, provide solutions".

I am sure the, 'throwing your hands up in the air and saying fuck it', is a profitable business strategy and all. But I do not think it will work for all of us. Good luck on it for yourself however.

Furthermore, the people who actually are out of the U.S. completely, including registrars and processing are what percent? There is an Achilles heel for 99% of them if you want to look for it. However, just getting them removed from Google is a start. But most do not even file THAT DMCA, and it is one of the easiest ever.

V_RocKs · 03-25-2009, 12:15 AM

http://www.gofuckyourself.com/showth...6#post15669356

Paul Markham · 03-25-2009, 12:26 AM

Here is the only way to beat them, that I can see.

Tubes are expensive to run, they need people who will spend money to survive. The free surfers who don't want to spend any money are welcome to stay on Tubes, they are a drain on the finances, no good to us and can help us.

A lot of running a Tube site is met by the webcam and dating site sign ups. TUBES GIVING AWAY FULL SCENES NEED THIS REVENUE TO SURVIVE. So if you can take away from the this tiny percentage of the Tube surfers you critically damage the Tube sites profit line. You don't need the 99.9% who don't spend money, you need the 0.01% who do spend to make the effective. Take away part of the income and you severely restrict their ability to fund giving away full scenes.

Only a small part of a members $30 join fee is spent on the inside of the site, so take a small part of it and provide free web cams and dating sites content. I'm not sure how to do it with dating sites but here's an idea. Give every member a link to sign up to a dating site with full membership for the price of what the membership cost. With so much of the cost of a join going to affiliates/traffic system you could in theory provide a join for a third or less of what a normal dating site join costs.

OK for the greedy you can have a little part of the join for you, but this is not a time for greed.

For webcams the solution is simple. Webcam company supplies a daily 1 hour live show free to all members. One show can be beamed to thousands of members from different sites. The Webcam costs are met by the Webcam company and the profit is in the one to one upsells. And keep the costs down to get more to buy.

The benefits for this solution are simple. More sign ups and better retention, which is what it's about. The 0.01% who spend money on Tubes see a paysite membership as a better alternative than joining via a Tube site link and paying for all the free loaders on the Tubes. Yes they are the guys who pay for the free Tubes and would welcome getting a better service for less money. So make sure it's better and not a rip off.

As I said this is not a time for greed, it's a time to step up to the plate. The one flaw is traffic. But if affiliates are not prepared to send traffic to make it work what's the point of this thread and ones like it? You can look at the greed for today's money or think long term and make sure you still have a business tomorrow.

Incidentally the free Webcam show works in converting more and retaining longer.

Barefootsies · 03-25-2009, 12:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

Here is the only way to beat them, that I can see.

Tubes are expensive to run, they need people who will spend money to survive. The free surfers who don't want to spend any money are welcome to stay on Tubes, they are a drain on the finances, no good to us and can help us.

A lot of running a Tube site is met by the webcam and dating site sign ups. TUBES GIVING AWAY FULL SCENES NEED THIS REVENUE TO SURVIVE. So if you can take away from the this tiny percentage of the Tube surfers you critically damage the Tube sites profit line. You don't need the 99.9% who don't spend money, you need the 0.01% who do spend to make the effective. Take away part of the income and you severely restrict their ability to fund giving away full scenes.

Only a small part of a members $30 join fee is spent on the inside of the site, so take a small part of it and provide free web cams and dating sites content. I'm not sure how to do it with dating sites but here's an idea. Give every member a link to sign up to a dating site with full membership for the price of what the membership cost. With so much of the cost of a join going to affiliates/traffic system you could in theory provide a join for a third or less of what a normal dating site join costs.

OK for the greedy you can have a little part of the join for you, but this is not a time for greed.

For webcams the solution is simple. Webcam company supplies a daily 1 hour live show free to all members. One show can be beamed to thousands of members from different sites. The Webcam costs are met by the Webcam company and the profit is in the one to one upsells. And keep the costs down to get more to buy.

The benefits for this solution are simple. More sign ups and better retention, which is what it's about. The 0.01% who spend money on Tubes see a paysite membership as a better alternative than joining via a Tube site link and paying for all the free loaders on the Tubes. Yes they are the guys who pay for the free Tubes and would welcome getting a better service for less money. So make sure it's better and not a rip off.

As I said this is not a time for greed, it's a time to step up to the plate. The one flaw is traffic. But if affiliates are not prepared to send traffic to make it work what's the point of this thread and ones like it? You can look at the greed for today's money or think long term and make sure you still have a business tomorrow.

Incidentally the free Webcam show works in converting more and retaining longer.

How about we send Paul Markham to the dating, and cam companies and get them to stop advertising on tubes?

No revenue, no tube. Problem solved.

Paul Markham · 03-25-2009, 12:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tony404

There are separate industries its not all one industry. And dont worry it may take awhile but they keep giving more and more full scenes away for free. Governments will start filtering us off the net. They move slow just give them time and then people will actually have the balls to say why are they picking on us.

Not if they can't afford to. It costs money to run a Tube site, money that is provided by people who will spend money. These are the only ones that count, the rest are a drain and cost.

This is what it needs to fight Tubes.

Less greed from all of us. We need to stop sending traffic to sites thinking only of today. Sites who we know turn the surfers over, yes we know who they are.

We need to think long term and decide if we want a job long into our future or will "adapt". Which usually means opening a Tube site and taking a cut in income. As more people open Tubes more will earn less, that's not adapting. It's capitulation.

I'm not pointing a finger at you Tony, just replying to your idea that they will start giving away more and better scenes.

INever · 03-25-2009, 12:58 AM

If that suggestion made sense the whole industry could just align with craigslist and plentyoffish, myspace and facebook and other free dating/mingle sites.

INever · 03-25-2009, 01:00 AM

The problem may even more 'fundamental' than is being discussed here. There was another thread on here today that was talking about a reduction in the surfers' sense of "thrill" with net porn in general. It's a "mature" industry now. https://gfy.com/fucking-around-and-business-discussion/895582-traffic-pool-changed-forever-agree.html

Barefootsies · 03-25-2009, 01:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by INever

If that suggestion made sense the whole industry could just align with craigslist and plentyoffish, myspace and facebook and other free dating/mingle sites.

"this whole industry" does not exist as a collective centralized focus, goal or mission statement.

Unfortunately.

Barefootsies · 03-25-2009, 01:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by INever

The problem may even more 'fundamental' than is being discussed here. There was another thread on here today that was talking about a reduction in the surfers' sense of "thrill" with net porn in general. It's a "mature" industry now. https://gfy.com/fucking-around-and-business-discussion/895582-traffic-pool-changed-forever-agree.html

Correct.

Some people now need to actually learn some real business and marketing skills to SELL people. For way too long people could make some sales just giving people free shit or naked. Now you actually have to do some listening, researching, tracking, adapting, tailoring.... ya know... WORK.. to convert them to a sale.

Online now requires more of a skill set. Some are learning that as they scramble or fast track trying to grasp some marketing and sales skills to stay in business. The question is going to be are they selling porn, or happy meals at the end of 2009.

wizzart · 03-25-2009, 01:20 AM

Yes we can, make more tubes :idea:

Paul Markham · 03-25-2009, 03:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by INever

If that suggestion made sense the whole industry could just align with craigslist and plentyoffish, myspace and facebook and other free dating/mingle sites.

Yes linking to these sites and showing members and surfers the options to spending money would be a good way. Thanks for the suggestion.

The problem with this industry As Tony says "its a great idea but for it to work you need long term thinkers and this is an industry of short term thinkers." is the short term thinking of many.

As an industry we have always concentrated more on short term solutions and get rich quick ideas, rather than thinking long term. We have sent surfers to sites we know are not good value just so we could earn a fast buck. And that sill happens today.

The solution to all these problems are long term solutions and will need people to think of their future. To you it does not make sense to show these people where they can get Dating for free, why is that? Could it be that you don't earn sending them there?

We have to think long term and maybe lose one income to protect the income from paysites. In todays world we can't have both.

Pleasurepays · 03-25-2009, 03:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WarChild

If only someone would have thought of a thread earlier!

This place is a virtual intellectual think tank and we should be getting right to the meat of some very hardy ideas soon.

Thanks for stepping up to the plate, we need more people like you around. Really.

Paul Markham · 03-25-2009, 03:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nineteen85

Tubes are not the problem.

Webmasters with too rigid a business plan are the problem.

Get with the program and start offering something different

So many dreamers in this thread.

Sorry but a lot of this industry is about creating exactly the same as the guy next to you only on half the budget and spending twice as much to send people to it. Because it's exclusive.

This also applies to ideas and marketing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by wjxxx

The solution is very simple: law suit

They are not protected by the safe harbor provision because their staff decide which videos will be listed and which not.

The problem is biggest players in this industry don`t give a fuck about tube sites and still sell xsales to Brazzers

So what you're saying it the biggest players don't give a fuck because they make money from it, but should spend a million dollars to sue people in countries that don't care.

Got any more bright ideas?

Paul Markham · 03-25-2009, 03:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wjxxx

That`s BS. Biggest tube sites like youporn.com, redtube.com, pornhub.com are owned, registered and hosted by US or CA corporations.

The problem is not newhardcoreporntube.com with no traffic, the problem is youporn - 35 in Alexa Top100, redtube - 49 in Alexa and pornhub - 138.

So these guys should sue themselves or maybe Playboy or Hustler.

What will you do to help other than come up with ideas to spend their money on useless ideas?

Yes what will YOU DO to help?

quantum-x · 03-25-2009, 04:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

So these guys should sue themselves or maybe Playboy or Hustler.

What will you do to help other than come up with ideas to spend their money on useless ideas?

Yes what will YOU DO to help?

You twits don't even know which of the tubes are legal or not.

gideongallery · 03-25-2009, 07:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FightThisPatent

you just violated the first rule of brainstorming.

and violated the 2nd rule, you can't criticize unless you come up with alternatives.

Fight the arm-chair!

ok your idea would not work, quite simply because editorial control does not automagically eliminate safe harbor

youtube censors nudity/adult content, it does not kill the safe harbor provision because you can easily tell the difference between adult and non adult (any smuck can do that)

you can not tell the difference between licienced and not licienced, fair use and not fair use (only a qualified lawyer can do that). Given the fact that qualified lawyers make mistakes 39% of the time (chilling effect) it is a lot harder than you think. No judge is going to be stupid enough to come to the conclusion that you are stating.

rule 2
branding bugs
product placement

Paul Markham · 03-25-2009, 07:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by quantum-x

You twits don't even know which of the tubes are legal or not.

Seriously the legal avenue to stop Tubes is as dead as a Dodo. In fact deader because Dodos actually did exist.

For those who did not here.

THERE IS NO LEGAL WAY TO CLOSE TUBES, TO DATE.

There might come a law which says you have to have some sort of age verification to show porn. The idea of stopping Tubes with a DMCA is

03-25-2009, 12:05 AM	#101
Denny Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 17,331	tube sites steal our traffic/money __________________

03-25-2009, 12:26 AM	#106
Paul Markham Too old to care Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: On the sofa, watching TV or doing my jigsaws. Posts: 52,943	Here is the only way to beat them, that I can see. Tubes are expensive to run, they need people who will spend money to survive. The free surfers who don't want to spend any money are welcome to stay on Tubes, they are a drain on the finances, no good to us and can help us. A lot of running a Tube site is met by the webcam and dating site sign ups. TUBES GIVING AWAY FULL SCENES NEED THIS REVENUE TO SURVIVE. So if you can take away from the this tiny percentage of the Tube surfers you critically damage the Tube sites profit line. You don't need the 99.9% who don't spend money, you need the 0.01% who do spend to make the effective. Take away part of the income and you severely restrict their ability to fund giving away full scenes. Only a small part of a members $30 join fee is spent on the inside of the site, so take a small part of it and provide free web cams and dating sites content. I'm not sure how to do it with dating sites but here's an idea. Give every member a link to sign up to a dating site with full membership for the price of what the membership cost. With so much of the cost of a join going to affiliates/traffic system you could in theory provide a join for a third or less of what a normal dating site join costs. OK for the greedy you can have a little part of the join for you, but this is not a time for greed. For webcams the solution is simple. Webcam company supplies a daily 1 hour live show free to all members. One show can be beamed to thousands of members from different sites. The Webcam costs are met by the Webcam company and the profit is in the one to one upsells. And keep the costs down to get more to buy. The benefits for this solution are simple. More sign ups and better retention, which is what it's about. The 0.01% who spend money on Tubes see a paysite membership as a better alternative than joining via a Tube site link and paying for all the free loaders on the Tubes. Yes they are the guys who pay for the free Tubes and would welcome getting a better service for less money. So make sure it's better and not a rip off. As I said this is not a time for greed, it's a time to step up to the plate. The one flaw is traffic. But if affiliates are not prepared to send traffic to make it work what's the point of this thread and ones like it? You can look at the greed for today's money or think long term and make sure you still have a business tomorrow. Incidentally the free Webcam show works in converting more and retaining longer. __________________ Blowout deal. 880 videos, 2,400 image sets, plus many RAW videos. $500. PM me for a deal. Skype Paulmarkham70 Last edited by Paul Markham; 03-25-2009 at 12:27 AM..

03-25-2009, 12:58 AM	#109
INever Confirmed User Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: .......in a niche, in orbit...... Posts: 3,729	If that suggestion made sense the whole industry could just align with craigslist and plentyoffish, myspace and facebook and other free dating/mingle sites. __________________ I love Camdough

03-25-2009, 01:00 AM	#110
INever Confirmed User Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: .......in a niche, in orbit...... Posts: 3,729	The problem may even more 'fundamental' than is being discussed here. There was another thread on here today that was talking about a reduction in the surfers' sense of "thrill" with net porn in general. It's a "mature" industry now. https://gfy.com/fucking-around-and-business-discussion/895582-traffic-pool-changed-forever-agree.html __________________ I love Camdough

03-25-2009, 01:20 AM	#113
wizzart scriptmaster Industry Role: Join Date: May 2006 Location: Serbia Posts: 5,240	Yes we can, make more tubes :idea: __________________ BimboZone

03-25-2009, 12:15 AM	#105
V_RocKs Damn Right I Kiss Ass! Industry Role: Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Cowtown, USA Posts: 32,428	http://www.gofuckyourself.com/showth...6#post15669356