If you could have any person in the world become the US President in 08?
 

http://www.gfy.com/showthread.php?p=...2#post14102252

sorry I meant to make a new thread. I am now on bump duty in this thread. :(

Can anyone explain what superdelegates actually are? I mean really, are they just a bunch of guys who gave boatloads of money to the party or what? And, if superdelegates are going to have the final say in who is actually on the ticket, why are we wasting time and money with these primaries? It all seems so frustrating its easy to understand why so many people are turned off by our political process.

I see this as a two way door. People that vote, just to vote.. because they think have to vote, is what fucks the system up. It's part of the reason why GW bush won last time, as one of our friends said 'he is funny so I voted for him, again.' - People like that shouldn't vote, period.

I feel it's justice to not vote when you can't agree with what any of them are saying. I have equal grounds of what I do and don't agree with, on all 3 of them. I'm not a rep or dem, I have views on both sides. But the real deal is, I don't agree with 90% of anything, all 3 are saying.

The 10% I do agree with them on is all non-important shit to me and has nothing to do with making our country better.

Why should anyone vote unless they actually like and agree with the majority of what the person is saying? Otherwise, aren't you just being a sheep and doing what someone else is suggesting you do?

you could sense it for the past month or so - Obama losing momentum - it's all playing out right into the hands of the Republicans. At this point a Clinton nomination victory will play better - Obama Mania peaked too soon - if Clinton takes the nomination the media will fall over itself with stories about how she got up off the mat painting her as Comeback Hilary.

this race is a microcosm of why there are all those red states in the middle of the country - a bitter fight between a black man and a white woman - the divisiveness that has been the trademark of the Democratic Party for a very long time - the people in the red states don't like it.

Every dem member of congress is super delegate including Obama and Clinton. Every dem Governor is a super delgate. Also some former govs and members of congress are also super delegates as well as former VP and Presidents. For example Al Gore is super delegate so is Bill Clinton, Jimmy Carter and Walter Mondale.

I feel ya, but if people dont realize that a guy like Mccain could have their famalies eating out of garbage cans in 5 years or less then they better find a better candidate.

The real problem is alot of Americans are ignorant sheep and let their nightly news dictate what the candidates are really about. That will never change, just like there will never be a perfect candidate, EVER. If your waiting for that election, dont bother registering to begin with.

Notoldschool: A democrat vote will guarantee a Republican in office for 2012. The recession will go bad, the war will spiral out of control... Mccain is a dead vote and the republican party knows it.

So obviously "everyone needs to vote for change" means vote Democrat.

Frankly, I don't like Obama or Clinton and I don't want them running the world. (The USA is New Rome, and we spin the world's wheels). So me NOT voting is a NO CONFIDENCE vote.

I don't feel I need to explain this more to you. Why should I vote for an idiot? Because he/she is LESS of an idiot than the other guy? Fuck that.

Also the US needs more parties and needs to stop this 2 party horseshit. See UK/Canada/NZ/AU etc

Explain. I'm not sure how McCain can hatch his evil plans without Congress which will be contolled by the dems for at least the first 2 yars of his administration. And let's face it McCain will be strictly a 1 termer due to age.

If Obama not winning a "big state" makes him like Dukakis then what does that make Clinton? Seeing how she has less votes and less pledged delegates than him, yet when she started this race she had every advantage and he was relatively unknown?

When she started in this race she had almost every advantage that an incumbent usually has, yet she has been behind in votes and delegates every day since the first ballot was cast....but somehow you want to spin that to mean that Obama is weak?

So, in your own words, nigga please.

ther are. the problem is people like you refuse to vote for those candidates. Any reason why you don't go ahead and vote and vote for the green aprty or Libnertarian party candidate? sure they won't win, but if MILLIONS voted for other party candidate maybe those parties would beome more legit. The GOP was an outsider 3rd party until a guy named Lincoln got elected.

Ok so if the states Clinton wins are more important because they have more people, then why is she behind in the popular vote?

Even if you count the Florida results she's still behind in the popular vote.

Yes, Al Gore won the popular vote but lost the election because general elections are decided by the electoral college. Nominations are decided by delegates, and Obama has many more than her.

So what exactly is your argument here?

I agree that this two party shit does nothing but draw a divide in our country. I wouldnt mind No parties and every man for himself type shit. Then we could atleast vote for the best man or woman.


He isnt hatching any evil plan. he is a puppet set in place to continue the evil plan that has been in the works for two decades. Got it?

So Obama won Wyoming, the Dakotas, Idaho, Alaska etc. Those states vote red.

So Obama won georgia, alabama, louisiana S Carolina who have lots of blacks that vote in dem primaries. they vote red in Nov too.

Please show me states that held a PRIMARY in which less than 25% of the reg voters were black in which Obama won by more than 5 points.

The question isn't what percentage of the black vote a candidate gets, the important thing is how many of those people actually show up at the polls.

Same with the youth vote...baddog said in another thread that Dems always get the youth vote, and that is true. However, turnout among young voters is always very low, but in this primary season they have shown up in much larger numbers to support Obama.

So again it's not what percentage of a certain demographic you get in the fall, it's how many people in that demographic show up to the polls. On this Obama has been way in the lead this entire season.

As for your last comment, Obama has never said superdelegates were unfair, AND he's never said Hillary should get out of the race.
Don't go confusing what op-ed writers and political bloggers and other people say with what the candidate himself says. He knows the rules, he's playing by the rules, and he'll win by the rules.

Speaking of rules, why do you cry about the rules when it comes to superdelegates but want to put the rules aside when it comes to Florida? Hillary knew the rules (regarding FL and MI) before she ran, if she didn't like them she didn't have to run.

I agree that McCain can't run this country, forget everything else that is wrong, he has Cancer so a vote for him is a vote for his vice president. And he looks old, seems to forget, and thinks war is an answer.

Obama in my eyes will damage the country far greater than McCain ever could. At least with McCain we know we are getting Bush again. With Obama, this guys track history and life history.. the only reason he is able to make it this far is because he is black, period. No white person would ever have made it as far as he has if the same problems came up. If you don't think some serious upper powers are playing this hand, then you may want to do more research.

And Clinton, she prob isn't/wasn't the best choice, but she had my vote until she cried on TV. Really I was voting for her husband to make it into a chair. Anyway, I could agree with her on everything (but I don't) and ever since she cried, that day she stood no chance with me. You want to lead the most powerful country in the world then you best act like you are powerful enough to do it, something she clearly has shown she can't handle.

If you count Florida Obama's lead is less than 200,000 out of nearly 30 million.

And super delegates are part of the delegate count so what is YOUR argument here?

Also Obama has 52% of the pledge dlegates awards so far. That's not a HUGE lead.

As long as he splits the rest of the delgates in the remaining contests he only needs 45% of the remaining undecided super delegates to go his way to secure the nomination. And he's gotten 80% of the super delegate endorsements over the last 2 months. So what is your issue?

^^^
What he said

And McCain won California and New York....so does that mean he's going to win them in the fall?

Nope.

Primary victories are not a reliable indicator of how a candidate will fare in that same state during the general election. The only reason we're hearing this nonsense about "big states" and "electoral math" in this primary season is because it's the only argument Hillary can make....she's lost this race by every standard measure, so she had to make up her own.

You want me to show you a state that held a primary where this percentage of voters were this and Obama won by more than that?
What's next, Obama can't win states that start with the letter "N" and have 3 syllables and more than two rivers....so therefore Hillary should be the nominee?

This is beyond ridiculous.

When the race is over, you count up the votes (or delegates in a primary or electoral votes in the general) and the person with the most votes wins. Why is that so hard for some people to get through their thick skulls?

After what happened in 2000 you would think democrats would be united on the principle that the person with the most votes should win.

Then WHY is it if Hillary gets the nomination because of the super delegates Obama supporters are saying she STOLE his nomination. You can't have it both ways.

As for as florida, it was the REPUBLICAN controlled Fl legislature and the REPUBLICAN governor that moved up the date of the democratic primary. So I'm not sure why the DNC chooses to blame Florida democrats and punish them for something they had ZERO control over. Kind of like blaming Jews for the Holocaust.

You bring up Hillary like I support her. I don't like that fat bitch anymore than I like Obama.

I have no issue here, he's going to win, it's that simple.

Quit putting words in my mouth or making arguments for me....I never said superdelegates weren't part of the game, they are, and at the end of the day they're going to go with the person who got the most votes and the most pledged delegates, because they don't want a repeat of 1968 or 1972.

Also, your math is wrong....since Super Tuesday Obama has gotten 100% of the net superdelegates. Hillary's net gain in superdelegates since then is ZERO. She gained a few but lost just as many.

No it's Not Is Obama winning S Carlina in Nov? no. Why not he won HUGE in the primary over 50% of the voters were black. Oh wait only 50% of the DEMOCRATIC voters were black not 50% of ALL voters. And that's what matters in Nov. Obama supports want to make the case that he's teh guy ebcaus he won mre states. States that he won because they had high black poplations that were also members of the party he is trying to get the nomiation for but make a small % of ALL voters. These same states usually vote red. These same states that typically are racist and thus will never vote for a black guy.

winner winner chicken dinner

Again you're quoting things Obama supporters have said and trying to make that stick to the candidate, or to me. That's not an intellectually honest argument.

The fact of the matter is that the rules definitely allow superdelegates to do whatever they want, as a matter of fact pledged delegates are only required to stick with their candidate for the first ballot....if it takes more than one ballot at the convention to select a nominee then the pledged delegates for Obama and Clinton could vote for William Henry Harrison if they really wanted to.

However, if the superdelegates end up nominating the person with fewer votes and fewer pledged delegates, then alot of people will feel like the nomination was stolen, they will feel like their votes in the primaries didn't matter because it will seem like there was a back room deal to nominate someone other than the person the voters wanted. So while it's perfectly within the rules to do this, there would be consequences from the voters and the superdelegates know this.

As for Florida...you can't blame it on the republicans, because the democrats in the legislature didn't vote against the measure. They didn't even make a stand on principle, so there was implicit collusion there....they hoped that someone out there would make the argument that you're making now so that they could have an earlier primary.

If we let that happen then we'll have 40 states moving their primaries to New Year's day in 4 years because they want to be as important as Iowa and New Hampshire.

Personally, I prefer the republicans solution to this which was to strip the state of half their delegates rather than not count them at all....and then they allowed all of the candidates to campaign there.

Doesn't matter anyways. Sadly, McCain will be the next prez of the good ole US of A

Man, if you're thinking that Republicans would PREFER to go up against Clinton, you're dreaming. It's a ruse that republican pundits have been pushing for a long time now. They're very good at that stuff, lol.

Obama is still unknown to most people. In the last debate, some things were exposed that I'd never even known, and I follow this shit! Now Obama is declining invitations to debate again. Doesnt he think that if he's the eventual nominee that it's best to air dirty laundry NOW? McCain and his people will trash Obama really bad..blind side style. Whereas Clinton's dirty laundry was aired, folded and put away years and years ago.

I think republicans fear Clinton and will *never* admit it.

If states won were his only argument then you would have a point.

Speaking of which, if his states won argument doesn't matter, then why does Hillary's big states won argument matter?

I know you are new here, so let me enlighten you. There are a ton of other parties out there. You can not force people to join them.

* Republican Party
* Democratic Party
* Libertarian Party
* Constitution Party
* Green Party

These parties have offered candidates in recent elections, but did not in 2004, and they do not have ballot status in enough states in 2008 to win the presidency. Some do not have presidential candidates, but for other offices only.

This is an incomplete list, which may never be able to satisfy certain standards for completeness.
Revisions and sourced additions are welcome.

* America First Party (2002)
* Centrist Party (United States) (2006)
* Independence Party of America (2007)
* Jefferson Republican Party
* Moderate Party (2006) - Founded in Illinois by Bill Scheuer, registered as a party in Florida [1] [2]
* Marijuana Party (2002)
* Party for Socialism and Liberation (2006)
* Peace and Freedom Party (1967) - active primarily in California
* Prohibition Party (1867)
* Reform Party of the United States of America (1995) - currently divided into two factions both using the name of the "Reform Party"
* Socialist Equality Party (1953)
* Socialist Party USA (1973)
* Socialist Workers Party (1938)
* Workers World Party (1959)
* Working Families Party (1998)

Some of these parties have nominated candidates in the past, but have not done so recently for various reasons. Others have not yet nominated any candidates.

This is an incomplete list, which may never be able to satisfy certain standards for completeness.
Revisions and sourced additions are welcome.

* American Party (1969)
* American Patriot Party (2003)
* American Heritage Party (2000)
* American Reform Party (1997)
* Christian Freedom Party (2004)
* Christian Falangist Party of America (1985)
* Communist Party USA (1919)
* Democratic Socialists of America
* Freedom Road Socialist Organization (1985)
* Independent American Party (1998)
* Labor Party (1995)
* Libertarian National Socialist Green Party (1997)
* National Socialist Movement (1974)
* New American Independent Party (2004)
* New Black Panther Party (1989)
* New Union Party (1974)
* Personal Choice Party (1997)
* Populist Party of America (2002)
* Progressive Labor Party
* Ray O. Light Group (1961)
* Revolutionary Communist Party, USA
* Social Democratic Party of America (2007)
* Socialist Action (1983)
* Socialist Alternative (1986)
* Socialist Labor Party (1876)
* Unity08 (2006)
* Workers Party, USA
* World Socialist Party of the United States (1916)
* United Fascist League (2007)

Only uneducated people will feel their vote was stolen. And yeah, there's plenty of those out there, but while we cant blame them, we also cant FEAR them (which is the tactic).

Blame the media for constantly airing people and blog posts without correcting them, that it'll be a "steal", or a "give".

Simple math if Obama gets 74% of the remaining pledged delgates Hillary can get the remaining super deleagtes and it won't matter.

if Obama gets 56% of the remaining pledged delgates Hillary can get 75% of the remaining super deleagtes and it won't matter.

if Obama gets 50% of the remaining super delagtes he only needs 38% of the pledged delegates to get above 2025.

In 13 days after NC and IN vote and that % will be down to less than 25% of the remaining pledged delegates.

I suspect John Edwards will throw his support behind Obama right before the NC primary and give Obama his 18 remaining pledged delegates.

So Obama fanbois needs to untie the knot in their panties.

Okay, now you have done it. racist, racist, racist


</sarcasm>

It doesn't and if you'd read I already stated that.

All that matters is that can you guy/gal whatever get 50.1 of the total vote in a state in Nov so they can collect the electoral vote in that state. And frankly both Obama and Clinton will have a hard time winning any states that voted red both in 2000 and 2004. If Dems had been smart and supported Edwards this wouldn't even be an issue.

My stance all along.

i was kinda hoping she'd mess up and drop out
its not that I don't like her but they need to pick a candidate soon

Well said.

Yea, I know they exist baddog. It's just how this country works. They don't have support, or funding. There just hasn't been an ability to break through the 2 party system yet.

I'm not sure how other countries did it.

I admit, I know nothing about the procedures and policies of 3rd parties. I just see a sorely lacking support of them and I have to assume it's partly due to the system. Why would repubs or dems make it easy for another party to rise to power?

Talking out my arse at this point, just see 2 choices as a flawed system is all.

Gore, Kerry, and Edwards all should have came out for Hillary today.

Yeah and im part of the big cock party but with the media controlling the elections those parties might as well not even exist.

I may be wrong but i believe Gore supports Obama, I know Kerry does, and who knows or cares what Edwards thinks at this point.

Well Edwards is a supper delegate and he has 18 pledged delegates of his own. At this point every delegate is important. He's from NC and if his support can make Obama win by an even larger margin in 2 weeks thus giving Obama even more delegates or lessening the loss for Hillary if he supports her thus extending this race, then I would say what he think IS in fact important.

You mean the CFR's victory?