He had more money.. he lost tonight .. He had more donars.. he lost tonight... delegates don't determine who wins in November. State count doesn't determine who wins in November... who's counting? Those of us that want a dem in the white house.

Die hard Republicans plus those voting against the Democrat's nominee will win this election too. (like we have discussed before)

Sad really ........

So tonight is the only night that matters? None of the other election nights we've had so far have mattered? All of those elections where he's won more votes and accumulated more pledged delegates.....the only one out of all of those that matters is tonight?

What about North Carolina and Indiana? Do they matter? Or is Pennsylvania the only state that matters and the other 49 are just wasting their time by holding primaries?

Delegates determine who wins the nomination. Neither you or I or anyone else on the planet can do anything more than guess when it comes to who will win in November and why.
You may think you know, but all you're really doing is constructing an argument based on your candidate preference.

These things change so many times and so fast it's ridiculous. The general election is 7 months away, that's an eternity in politics.
For a point of reference, consider this. The Iowa caucuses were 4 months ago, think about what the race was like then. Hillary was "inevitable", there was no way she could lose. Now she's making arguments based on ideas that require intense mental gymnastics just to follow.....not to mention the fact that the argument changes every week once they realize that last week's argument didn't work for them.
Who out there predicted that? Who, 4 months ago, predicted that Hillary would be hanging on by a very thin thread, behind in the popular vote and delegate count, almost completely out of campaign funds, and praying that superdelegates would break for her to give her the nomination?

Nobody.

And this has only been 4 months....we have almost twice that time between now and the general, so don't pretend to know what will happen between now and then, because you don't have a clue.

I don't know where that comes from but ok. I still doubt he will win the entire thing. I am still betting it is Clinton that wins.

I was a Ron Paul supporter at the start but now that he is pretty much done. The only choice left for me is Obama after that a write in. McCain isn't a republican he more like a fascists.

good plan:thumbsup I think the only reason this is still going, is to see who gets VP ?:winkwink:

But Obama will have a signifigant lead in money, delegates, pledged delegates, and overall votes come convention time. The only way Hillary can win is by convincing a ton of superdelegates to vote for her instead of Obama. I can't fathom that happening. It would completely alienate Obama voters and the Democratic party would lose the black vote for the next 30 years. McCain would win the thing in a massive landslide. They'd also lose a lot of close Congressional races that people would vote Republican out of spite.

The Democratic Party is pretty fucking stupid, but I can't fathom they'd be that stupid.

She wins the big states and you can't fathom it happening? Really?

and yes they are that stupid. Why do you think we are even having this discussion?

You imply I pick and choose the info I want to present and yet you're the worst example of someone that does that... You talk about how Obama will win in November and then you say no one knows.. You're such a moron that can't seem to put together a cohesive argument... Nowhere did I say or imply that tonights results are the only ones that matter. You put it out there that more money, more donors etc. are the reason he'll win.. I was pointing out that the results from tonight indicate that that's not the case.

What about North Carolina and Indiana? The only thing that matters in those states or any other is the exit polls and what they indicate about who the core voters are voting for and how they will relate to going against McCain. Who, by their results in the battlefield states, has the best chance of eroding support for McCain and winning against him. Tonights result is exactly the type of electoral college, state by state election results that the voting in November will come down to and Obama didn't deliver even with all the extra money etc. He went into a state that favored Hillary (now change that name to McCain) and he had more money, more donors, out spent Hillary by 3x and he lost. He can't use the excuse anymore that the votors don't know him.

North Carolina, Indiana are republican states.. So in order to win in November, Obama needs to get the type of voters that will be voting for McCain... blue collar, religious etc... Tonights result indicated once again that he has a very hard time with those voters..

Pennsylvania is a swing state.. And he lost to Hillary even with his outspending her.. The Democrats can't afford "hoping" they'll win that swing state come November.

But hey.. Reality doesn't matter.. As one Obama supporter said.. "When I hear him talk he speaks to my heart"... Guess everyone will just have to "hope" that Obama "can" win...

I just think there are enough superdelegates who would understand that giving the nomination to Hillary would lose the black vote for the party as well as just about every newly registered Democrat this election. Sure they might lose this election under Obama, but they'd at least not lose two huge demographics for the next 30 years.

It would be great theater, but despite how stupid they can be, I just can't fathom them throwing their party off a cliff for Hillary Clinton.

Because idiotic simpletons actually believe that sort of tripe?

I don't believe its the first time, and i'm more than certain it won't be the last time, but I'll say it again.

You're an idiot.

*Nice Fiddy post!!

no, at this point I wish she would just go away.

Where to start...

- Republican's are being out voted 4:1 at the polls. EVEN BEFORE it was a 1 man race it was still around 3:1.

- California, New Jersey, Massachusetts are Blue States...John McCain isn't going to change that. On the other hand Colorado, Oregon, Washington, Iowa, Minnesota, Wisconsin, Virginia, and Maine all go red if Hillary is the nominee.

- She won the other big states (OH, PA, TX) ? O.K. fine...but look at the margins that she won those big states by...still not enough for her to overtake him in the popular vote.

- MI, FL don't count....get over it. TX is red. Therefore the "big state" argument is retarded. As I pointed out above it is the smaller swing states that will make a difference.

- The one thing the Democratic Party can ALWAYS RELY ON is the African American vote. They are coming out for Obama by 9:1 margins.

- He can not lose the true measuring stick...pledged delegates. If Hillary Clinton is rewarded for her negative campaign with a nomination you can count out 90% of African American votes in the general election. A sure death blow for Democrats come November, 2010, and 2012 Presidential and beyond. They will view the election as stolen.

- McCain has had no time to bask in the media spot light. There is no way this guy is going to be President. Just look at the newly released ad by the DNC...chilling. There's tons of footage just like that to be used. Let's not forget about the Keating 5 and his crackhead Wife.

I beg to differ.

Do any of you really want 4-8 more years of Bush? If you don't you better hope the Democrats win. McCain has been molded into Bush's aged poodle. He was once a man I respected now i would not even consider a vote for him.

As to Hilary and Obama, Obama is a wild card but maybe that is what is needed. Whomever wins has a mess to clean up, maybe someone who knows what a gallon of milk costs would be better than a president who doesn't.

What baddog said.

I'm voting for Hillary. But if she doesn't make it, I just might vote McCain over Obama.

baddog - 1
Corona - 0

:1orglaugh

One of the largest false premises out there is that somehow, superdelegates have the ability to "give" or "steal" the nomination.

That is False!

The simple fact is that superdelegates are singular people, like you and me, with a singular vote, like you and me.

Lets lay out a simple example and apply the false premise.

A governor's state went majority for Obama. Now the media would say if he votes for Clinton, he's "alienating" his states voters; he's "giving" it to Clinton; he's "stealing" it from Obama. If you were made to believe any of those things right now while you read, you can consider yourself uninformed. If a governor like that was only supposed to vote for the candidate that his constituents voted for in majority, he's nothing but a rubber stamp and the entire "superdelegate" process was never needed in the first place.

It's a simple thing that you probably will not hear or see on tv, and rarely will see on any democratic blog because it's not sexy or controversial. But it's an extremely simple fact.

These people are charged with making up THEIR OWN mind! Imagine that, lmao. They can take any damn thing they want into account just like you or me. Is she too old? Is he too creepy? Is he a doodiehead? Anything they want!

I propose that any superdelegate that tries to claim "I couldnt alienate my constituents by voting counter to them" should be voted out of office immediately, as they have proven they have no spine and are just telling you what they know will go down easy. If they say "I voted for the person that I thought was best", then they are OK in my book, regardless of who they choose.

i think it'll be a close fight, its just one state... she must win in a large margin.

And by the way, to Clintons enormous credit, she won this race after a month and a half that included 2 solid weeks of the media asking "Should Hillary Quit?". Even doing hour long interviews trying to speculate on if the media people thought she should quit, and why.. even after she said clearly she wasn't of course.

An orgy of pundits amusing themselves on a question they already knew the answer to, without regard to how it might affect the votes. Purely negative is the only way Clinton could possibly see that. Combined with Obamas massively huge stash of pure cash spent on ads and events all over the state. How could Obama not win that freaking state is beyond me. He had everything going for him, including a distracted media base with nothing better to do than bash his opponent bloody for 6 weeks. And he only managed to win Philadelphia for the most part. I mean holy shit.

Anyone who thinks that a superdelegate voting for the person with 51.3% of the vote or the person with 48.7% of the vote is "giving" or "stealing" or "alienating" is simply crazy. Parroting such nonsense just illustrates a particular brand of spin.

The only margin needed to win, according to Obama, is 51%. Why is it different for Clinton? Spin is why.

And one last thing. Anyone who thinks that if Clinton wins, it means 90% of african americans will stay home or vote McCain is truly messed up in the head.

Just like anyone who thinks that if Obama wins, 90% of southern whites will stay home or vote McCain is truly messed up in the head.

It's a good old "fear factor" being trotted out on top of the whole "stealing" line. Cherry on top of a sundae.. and all purely false. Using that argument lessens your IQ by 50 points. Find your own argument for your candidate, but dont treat african americans or southern whites like they're all completely mindless morons. It's nothing but an insult used to cause fear.

FACT:

Mccains has far more racist and down right insane advisors & freinds than Obama.

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/197/5...b9eeaa.jpg?v=0

I only pointed out that he has more money, more donors, more pledged delegates, more votes, and more states won. You (dick that you are) are the one who took that a step further and said that I said those things are the reason he'll win, when all I said was just that he has more money, more donors, more pledged delegates, more votes, and more states won. I simply stated those as a matter of fact in response your implication that all Obama and his supporters have is "hope".

As if you're the only one who understands the real world and the 15 million people who have voted for Obama so far are just delusional children.

The rest of your idiotic post was just a straw man argument against what you think I said, because you either have a reading comprehension problem or you intentionally twisted or added to my words just so you could make your weak ass case for why the person who got less votes is actually the strongest candidate.

You are now on ignore, fuck you very much. :321GFY

You make some [more] rather large assumptions.

Read the polls. he is not alone.

I forgot the </sarcasm> tag.

Sorry.

I almost feel sorry for you.

It ain't a good political thread unless someone gets put on ignore by someone.


hoo-yeah.

All of the voters in this country I know have pledged to not vote. The 3 choices that are presented are some of the worst in history. My grandparents have voted since the early 50s EVERY single time no matter what - and they have said it's a waste of time this year because every candidate sucks and would be a bad choice for the country.

Maybe it's just the small circle I know, but I'd say 80% of those I know are just saying fuck it.

Oh I love these bloggers who the media is quoting today, saying things like "the democrats are tearing themselves apart" lmao!

If I sliced an apple 51% 49%, could it be more divided? (yes, 50% to 50% lol).

Is it "tearing apart" to have MILLIONS of newly registered democrats?

Yeah, the democrats are ruined. Ruined I tells ya!!!!!1

Oh! They just read another "important" blog about this win giving Clinton more credibility for "stealing the election from Obama"!!!! See above posts about this worthless argument.

So, a torn apart party (divided by the voters) and now a "stolen" election. Welcome to spin alley on the day after. These are the same people who called Clintons 3am ad "negative" and some even called it racist. God what a clusterfuck.

Then you, your grandparents, and of your other 2 freinds can move to a country where you feel like voting.

I dont like anyone running particularly on either side, but I think the dems will have an epic loss come election day. :2 cents:

The sad thing is, they should have had a guaranteed victory.

That's the dumbest thing I have ever heard. I am Canadian and I have only voted once, because I don't give a shit and one vote doesn't matter.

In this country it's your RIGHT to vote. You don't HAVE to do it.

UGH. Notoldschool please stop doing drugs, you get worse and worse all of the time. I used to read your posts and nod and smile and agree. But lately you've become a douche shit head 12 year old.

On your logic you should be kicked out of the country. It's the persons right to not vote or feel the vote isn't worthy.

I hate all 3, I don't trust any of them, none of them have a record that would even kind of get me to trust them, and being so it is my opinion none of them deserve my vote or to be president. So by my rights, I probably will not vote for any of them.

I already said it in this post, add 'none of the above' to the voting options and I guarantee you that option would win the race.

10 points isn't huge?

Last time I checked Obama needs super delegates to get to 2025 also. so nigga please.

It'd be different if he had 2024 pledged delgates and Hillary had 1225 and she got all the super delegates to get the nomination that's not the case.

Please explain why Obama can't win a big state? Well he did win illnois of course he's from there. Other than that his biggest win is georgia which is 9th. GA also has lots of blacks. Obama is looking more like Dukakis every day.

For once, for the first time in GFY history I agree with you.

States won doesn't mean shit. More people live in the top 10 states in population than in the bottom 40, but if some canidate wins all 40 and none of the top 10 that somehow gives them more cred? Nope.

More votes? Al Gore got more votes than GW Bush. Didn't mean squat did it? 15 million have voted for Obama? That's about 6% of eligble voters. By the way 60 million retards voted for GW Bush in 2004.

A suggestion: If you're going to come in here and try to out-blase everyone by talking about how 'they're all the same' or you're not going to bother to vote because none of these hyper achievers are good enough for you, just don't fucking post. Your fakeass world weary know-nothing attitude is boring, we don't need to know.

Really? That's kinda of sad. I'm happy to say I can't say that about anyone on GFY.

With this logic your rights to vote should be taken away.

A non-vote still counts exactly the same as a vote. Then voicing our opinions against them is exactly what the election process is all about, vote or not. If we can't debate them, and maybe help make up a persons mind, then you are knocking the system you are trying to defend.

Or maybe explain why I have to choose?

Im sorry if I what i said was not polite, but I beleive in this election everyone needs to vote. Of course you DONT HAVE TO VOTE, but we need change now more than ever. If you and all your buddies think its not worth it, well then you let the powers above win IMO.

Also please refer to this very intelligent post

Minnesota last voted red in 1968.


Why doesn't FL count? ALL candidates were on the ballot all abided by the no campaigning rule so no one had an advantage. yes yes please let the dems keep telling floridians their votes don't count. that'll help come november.

In Prez elections blacks ALWAYS vote dem 9-1. Gore got over 90% Kerry got 90% Hillary would get 90% Obama doesn't bring anything new to the table when it comes to blacks. what, he'll get 95% in Nov? big deal.

figured blacks don't know math. 2025 dlegates are needed. I don't know how they can claim something is stolen if super delegates help Hillary get the nomination when it's a FACT that Obama will need super delegates himself. Obama can't say it's unfair for super delegates to count when he's courting them himslef and would gladly claim the nomination if super delegates pushed him above 2025. He knew the rules BEFORE he ran. If he didn't like them he didn't have to run.

Fact is if Dems gave out delegates like the GOP does where it's winner take all Hillary would have sewn up the nomination along time ago like McCain.