LadyMischief

And you couldn't prove more the entire mentality of this issue and why nobody here gets it. It's so not about the corporate aspect of it.


All I gotta say is, QUACK!

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TheDoc

Nobody is embracing thieves. If they are, then you are. Since your sponsor listing in your signature has known toolbar/spyware installing programs and a few known spammers.

Not really any different.

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tony286

Without that money they would of went out of business, they couldnt keep up with the bandwidth. I dont understand your thought and thats ok .

xxxice

What sponsor is this?

LadyMischief

Here's the only clue. The internet doesn't go without ONE main thing, there's no money, there's no websites, there's no purpose in it being there without ONE key element. PEOPLE. Remember, each click isn't just a click but a living breathing entity that follows patterns and shares information with others. That has EVERYTHING to do with this.

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halfpint

Tony tube site dont have to use a lot of bandwith. They can host 5 movies on thier own server and all the others that might apear to be hosted are plugs to other sites for traffic that way tubes dont burn as much as hosting thier own 200 movies on thier own website

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tony286

Tell that to pets.com,webvan.com and kozmo.com. lol I said before and Im really going to try to stop posting in this thread.Its like heroin for me. lol

Mutt

so much bullshit in this thread it's disgusting - MANY people are already adapting to this brave new tube world - Nubiles just came out with a nice affiliate tool that is a ready to go Tube site script you can import FLV videos from any sponsors you want - there is TEVS - Jay has Snizzshare - stop this fucking nonsense that this is all some scary oh so sophisticated Web 2.0 crap and that everybody in adult is caught in a TGP timewarp.

TEVS sites, Snizzshare, et al don't and will never have what's really SCARY - Alexa rankings under 100 like youporn.com, megarotic, pornhub - and why is that - because they aren't STEALING content and not serving it up on a platter in full length videos.

There's one issue here and one alone - THIEVERY not new technology.

hahahaha - converting MPEGS to FLV's - oh my we are really on the cutting edge!

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TheDoc

Do a google search for program name + toolbar, spyware, spam and you will have your answers. I'm just following up more on what I have been talking about.

It's all a huge ass fucking yet at the end of the day what Shap is doing is actually legal. Yet people have a problem with it because they don't like the idea of Tubes and they turn a blind eye to all the other problems, because it makes them money.

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seeric

fuzebox

Wizzo kept touching my nipples in Vegas

AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE

8 Pages! Roar!

Red Tube contains about 227 Hrs of content. Thats 32 Days on continuous content playing non stop.
Clips about 4 minutes long on average, 4555 Clips.

We certainly came a long way since scanning images off of Playboy and Hustler!

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Tempest

He's paying redtube for traffic that's been built using illegal means... I'm sure that if law enforcement actually understood or gave a shit they could find a law that applied and could throw him in a jail as well... The Rico statutes can be pretty broad... Getting traffic from those sources is one thing.. Knowing that they're commiting crimes and making a deal with them for some of the proceeds (in this case traffic), is a hell of a lot different... and that's exactly what he's done...

Tempest

Ditto... If I have a relationship with the company who's content has been ripped off, I also forward all the info to them as well..

TheDoc

Not every video on red tube is illegal. At that, I bet in court you or nobody could prove even half are.

If what you said was true, then YouTube is boned and every person that has ever uplaoded a video and tried to make a dime from any tube site would be in the same boat.

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will76

spin ???? no need to spin anything, this IS what you said and why I replied:

Good post Shap? It is refreshing to see someone realize that we cannot shape them, we must adapt to how they do things.

jesus fucking christ, if that isn't an approval statement and you agreeing with him doing business with Redtube then nothing is.

I make a comment that I am surpised to hear someone from homegrowm make comments like that and you try to say I am spinning this ?

here maybe you need to read again what you posted:

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Biggy

if 30 adult companies, filed 30 individual lawsuits, against a tube site, one by one, and geographically located each lawsuit based on server locations, assuming there are different server locations, and that site was forced to defend themselves legally in 30 different geographical areas, against 30 different lawsuits - would it still be profitable to run a tube site that steals content? the geographical part isnt as important as the # of individual lawsuites, forget class action.

also, what if the lawsuits were widely published when they were filed inside that territory, and the owners were sued personally, with their names out in the public. There are a couple of Freaks Of Cock videos on the tube sites, with over a million views - including RedTube and YouPorn.

I would be on board for this, if I could find 29 companies to join me.

I don't have a problem with tube sites. I do have a problem with tube sites that take our content, serve out a video over 1 minute in length, and dont advertise us at all. the reality is, there are a couple of tube sites that trump all the other ones in size.. feel free to repost this message around.

Biggy

this coalition would gain a reputation for ACTION, and if anything, could leverage that to reign in the problem in a controllable way. giving out full length videos hurts EVERYONE - even affiliates with legitimate sources of traffic. it's the cost of protecting our business, our margins, and our payouts. remember, even the ones who operate in 3rd world & obscure countries, it probably makes it more dangerous to operate porn out of there. :2cents companies need to put their money where their mouth is to take care of this issue, but it only works if there is a group effort.

TheDoc

Biggy, hit up A1R3K, he has put together something like this.

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will76

the problem is most of the people who post " adapt " etc.. doesn't even have a fucking clue how tube sites work. Too many people lump all tube sites together. There is legal tubes and illegal tube sites. Legal tubes are fine. Its the way traffic is going. Illegal tube sites are the problem. It doesnt matter if it a 'tube" site or a page of videos, it IS a site full of stolen content.

So the people saying adapt need to educate themselves. it isn't adapting to tube sites that is the problem it is trying to adapt to compete with people who steal your content and give it away for free.

Do you clueless people understand that. You keep saying adapt, adapt. well explain to the rest of us how you adapt to people stealing all of your content and giving it away for free. please I would love to hear this. This is for sites that just offer pictures and videos, good quality exclusive content that gets stolen, full members area stuff, and given away for free. If they can't offer something like cams or something interractive and their model is pics and videos how do they adapt short of going out of business and starting a dating site ???

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will76

Actually AFF did, everyone should thank Lars and Andrew. Lars always said he wanted to change the industy.

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seeric

i see the melissa hardcore video all over the place man.

»Rob Content«

In and Around is what he said.

Not directly next to.


In his video is an ad for AFF. Around his ad are links to other programs.

Below his ad is links to stolen content.

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Biggy

find me 29 other companies who will file separately, individual suits, with us.

Finike

Playing in the mud will get you dirty!

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seeric

With as much as I respect you Biggy, I personally do not have those resources.

You may want to talk to PAK Group. They might be interested. If you want their contact info, I can provide it for you.

will76

you totally missed the point. +1 more person who doesnt understand the that problem isn't tube sites but content theft. Legal tube sites with no stolen content are great, nothing wrong with them. Illegal tube sites that only exists because of stolen content is the problem. Doing business with theives is the problem. I don;t think many people are saying "tube" sites are the problem. The problem for many is how do you compete with someone who steals all your content and gives it away for free. how do you " adapt" to that ?

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V_RocKs

Wow... you are now the biggest hypocrite I have ever met.

I just lost all respect for you...

You are basically saying that you made a deal with the mob to "offer you protection" and therefor you want to drop out of neighborhood watch.

What a complete douche bag you are.

V_RocKs

You must not have read his post.. He said snizshare and other sites using TEVS that are legal are ok... I think sometimes you just like to increase your post count.

Zorgman

Why don't we all start using these terms

ITS - Illegal tube site - Redtube etc
SATS - sponsors approved tube site ( snizshare, tevs etc)

Just branding "tube" sites are bad is pretty narow minded.

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Paul Markham

It has little to do with ratios. Please stop thinking yesterday.

It's about sign ups and the cost of the sign up. Give Tubes legal content, they host it, prepare it, organise it and send sign ups. Ratios are not important.

Great ratios 1-10, but they send 10 hits a weeks.
Shit ratios 1-10,000 but they send 20,000 a day.

No one gets paid on ratios.

Not even people selling clicks, because the money that comes into the biz to pay for everything is coming from sign ups.

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will76

honestly i didnt read the second part. The first part just sounded like another person bitching about tube sites in general. I see in the second part he cleared it up and I retract my comments. So you can -1 from my post count. Actually while you are at it you can reset it to 0 that is fine with me.

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will76

Illegal Tubes and Legal Tubes work easy enough.

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After Shock Media

Paul your a seriously odd fucker who likes to read into things. Perhaps I was asking that question for an entirely different reason which by the way I was.

CTR is very fucking important if we are dealing with legit tube sites since it appears a great deal of them want the sponsors A.K.A. us the site owners to host these 2-3 minute clips. I would really like to know if a video is going to be viewed 10,000 times before a single person clicks through and then I concern myself with sign up ratios and average member values. Specially since a great deal of them train the surfer not to pay, love to sell what is not free (dating, cams, pills, etc.) and would be providing them that ability with my content and with me paying the bandwidth.

It is a very simple issue to run a legit tube site and make it very profitable for the owner of the tube site if several hundred or thousand sponsors are paying for your bandwidth while you sell primary no subscriptions to adult pay sites. You just sit back, collect your PPC money, your prepaid ads, and your other non paysite revenue.

Sure you will send some sales to some programs. Though if tube sites get as numerous as tgp sites and the like, which by the way at least advertise the main content provider unlike tube sites. One can only imagine the bandwidth costs associated with it to the sponsors. That is unless some legit tube decides to focus more on advertising that sponsor in general on each view page without ads leading elsewhere.

So maybe, just maybe that is why I could be curious about a possible CTR since he did offer up a basic conversion number. Of course everything above is almost moot if the legit tubes also host all of the content, then well as long as they promote the sponsor heavily on the same page then I could find myself cool with it.

As for the rest of the topic I think it relates more to some gangsters negotiating protection money from sponsors. Guess it would be more like a shake down. Pay them or they will just come steal or break your shit anyways. History already taught us that yes it makes the gangsters rich and typically those who do not pay them off suffer the consequences.
Does not mean I need to condone it nor support it. If others want to, well they are just finacing my eventual beatdown and oh well. It is my choice.

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Bike

I just wanted to post that www.tiavastube.com is one of the few LEGAL tube sites. No illegal content whatsoever (surfers CANT upload). All content is short promo content (asked permission to the sponsors). Paysites are promoted on the video pages with banners and text links. A new layout will be upladed soon with more and better banners/text links to the paysites. The site is already doing quite some sales everday and we want to increase this. We are in this for the money, not to give surfers more free porn.

Later, a real tiava amateur tube site will be created where surfers can upload their OWN content which will be checked before it goes live on our sites. We don't want any illegal content on that site either ofcourse.

It's really important to see a difference between illegal tube sites like redtube, xnxx, xvideos etc and LEGAL tube sites like www.tiavastube.com and apparently snizzshare and some others. The legal tube sites can be compared to MGP's with FHG's.

AnneT

I can't be bothered reading 8 pages of replies but I thought Shap's post was a great one.

There are so many clueless old-school webbies around who just dream about the day tube sites go away. Ain't gonna happen. It's about surfer behavior. Remember those guys? I love the early post where someone says "Fuck the surfer!". Er...right.

I also love the people who think it's now up to Twisties to police the theft of THEIR content. Your content, your problem.

I think the more you fight it, the harder it gets. You've gotta try and keep it in-house. Work with them, see what might happen. You can't deny the direction the surfers are taking.

Personally I think it's a storm in a teacup anyway. With more tube sites comes more competition. They won't be able to sustain using stolen content forever. Same way the early TGPs couldn't. Tubes sites are here to stay and you need to learn about them. But they won't destroy the industry.

The only thing I disagree with is the idea the free-sites are dying. That hasn't been my experience. And as far as I can see, it's pretty hard to SEO a tube site ;)

Zorgman

I'm with 100% with you on that Bike. Using sponsors approved videos are the only way to run a tube site.

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u-Bob

why wait for others to join in? Isn't this the problem in the 'industry'; people talking about what could be done or should be done... and not doing anything at all (except complain about the way others try to deal with the problem).

</nothing personal, general rant>

xmas13

Microsoft, movie studios, music giants could not stop online piracy, so i highly doubt small adult companies are gonna make any difference.

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testpie

I wouldn't use SATS - that's the name of a test for school kids in the UK...

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LadyMischief

Here's an idea. You change the way surfers use the internet, you stop everyone from sharing content, you stop tube sites from appearing, magically, and they won't be a problem anymore. I'm not talking about supporting sites that promote content theft... Shap's post was good because he's actually thought about the way his content is presented and instead of allowing tube sites (especially Red Tube) run willy nilly, he's trying to preserve the sanguinuity of his content by making an effort to control it's presentation. Like it or not, people have to make a choice to just fight something they can't change, or try to AFFECT change and put these sites in a position where they have to follow YOUR rules for YOUR content. It seems simple to me. It IS a new internet world, and as usual, people fight change. I'm not saying that stealing content is ok, never has and never will be. AGAIN I say tho, there IS a happy medium for those willing to find one, and ONLY by making an effort, unilaterally, is it possible to make change.

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LadyMischief

Creating accountability where there was none before is better than sitting back and bitching because someone won't listen to you.

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LadyMischief

so TRUE.... The problem being, there is NO WAY any coalition is going to succeed in finding them all, it's going to end up being a money pit of a battle that never really ends. There are reasons why huge companies like movie studios threaten and threaten and threaten places like Pirate Bay (which I think has NO chance of ever being a useful business model) but really can't do much. The best way to CONTROL content is to CREATE accountability within the industry for these sites. Force them to have to deal with content producers on OUR terms by unilaterally putting on the pressure. Chances are, we won't be able to sue a lot of these companies or force them to stop, but when you channel them into a cage and force them to work within constraints by doing the kind of thing Shap has done, he's FORCING them to be accountable to HIM for how they use HIS content.. for those who haven't done so, of COURSE it's going to be the wild west. We have to help each other as an industry but it's only going to work if we are all willing to make an effort. We've seen with things like Acacia (which as everyone knows Homegrown has worked on for YEARS) where a few companies end up holding the burdan of the fight, even though EVERYONE in the industry was involved/affected. How will this end up any differently? 90% of the people who produce content and bitch the hardest either can't or won't fight this kind of thing in court, a lot of bluff and bluster isn't going to help them. The best way to help the industry is to stand up and start helping yourself. If you can't stop the flow of content, at least CONTROL it.

I hope some of you who still have some sense are understanding what I'm saying, although I'm QUITE sure most of the real evangelists will likely put their own twisted spin on it regardless. Truthfully, though, facts are the facts, and the industry as a whole has to make a difference in a way it CAN, instead of constantly fighting ghosts. That hasn't gotten us anywhere before, I don't see how it will now.

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LadyMischief

Well see here is the root of the problem! Finally you get it.. Tube sites are a MEDIA that surfers have embraced as a media delivery method, AND a way to share community. It's the content THEFT that is the issue. Now, since you are actually thinking about this, let's think LOGICALLY. How many content producers can/will/are able to pursue legal action against every single site that is illegally distributing their content. Now, take those same content producers who sit and watch their content being stolen and distributed, and give them the option, say "Hey. Ok, so I can't stop these assholes from stealing my stuff. Maybe it would be in my best interest to TALK to them, figure out a way I can give them something they want, I can get traffic out of the deal, and then they aren't going to STEAL my content anymore, suddenly I can control my content, provide them with what *I* want them to have, and build accountability where there wasn't some before". Sure, Redtube may not be "100% legit" , but, don't you think if enough producers put the pressure on and put them in a box, it wouldn't force the issue? I'm trying to provide alternatives here that people can actually action, not the righteous battle that will end in martyrdom and no results for the vast majority of people who are affected the most. Do you get me NOW?

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CyberHustler

cherrylula

What is this, a fucking union??

Some of you need to stop fantasizing about "this industry," and realize its actually COMPETITION. Business competition.

Shap is running his business, not trying to please people on a message board.

LadyMischief

If Red Tube goes away tomorrow, will that be the end of Tube sites? At least Red Tube has made an effort to communicate, as sleazy as the way things have gone down before, most of these sites don't even care if someone gives them a c and d. They flip the bird and keep doing what they're doing anyways. Red Tube isn't the problem, simply an unfortunate symptom. And they are one of hundreds of potential "scapegoats" for this problem. Blame the sites all you want, but ultimately, nobody is going to protect the interest of content producers except... well.. content producers. Controlling content and it's distribution means retaining value of the content for a site and for affiliates, right? There's a difference between laying down and letting people walk all over you, then complaining about it later, or standing up and confronting things head on and figuring out a better solution. There IS a better solution, people just have to figure out what that is for them, what makes sense and what is truly actionable.

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LadyMischief

Ask yourself if you can afford the cost of years of litigation, that may end up with NOTHING, in fact, you end up further in the hole than you were in the first place... and IF, that is a BIG IF, you can collect damages how long can you sustain yourselves until you get that money back, IF you get that money back. Do affiliates really want the programs and producers to put all their time and money into pursuing litigation? Anyone who's so happy to jump on that bandwagon really has NO idea of what's REALLY involved in doing those kinds of things, and the realism of the fact is, most companies/people here simply could not do it. So, should those people sit on their hands and cry and moan because they can't do anything, or should they try to do what they can to keep the reigns on their investment?

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Kevin Cunningham

[QUOTE=the Shemp;13782595]Good morning Shemp, dropping you an email right now. We'll definitely get started on this right away and have you up-and-running in no time.

Shap

You have me on icq. I'm in.