Our Position Regarding RedTube and Tube Sites - Page 7 - GoFuckYourself.com

papill0n · 02-14-2008, 04:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDoc

He doesn't advertise "next" to those things. He is using the traffic though.

Exactly like the programs that used to push on p2p networks with video popups and anyone who has ever marketed on newsgroups.

So you are telling me it matters not what is on the thousands of other pages of redtube?

Doesn't matter if the owner(s) have built a site based on theft and giving away 100's of times the content of any other site?

Snake Doctor · 02-14-2008, 04:32 PM

TheDoc · 02-14-2008, 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RageCash-Ben

So you are telling me it matters not what is on the thousands of other pages of redtube?

Doesn't matter if the owner(s) have built a site based on theft and giving away 100's of times the content of any other site?

No, it doesn't matter. The truth is only a few people care, the rest act like they care. They could all protect themselves but choose to make up some bs excuse not to, fact.

Why? Free, stolen, porn makes money and any fool that thinks otherwise has forgotten what the truth is. Free porn drives our industry, it is not the reason it has taken a hit. You only need to look at every major program doing every shady thing possible to see why that has happened.

We have been blasted with emails, toolbars, spyware, virus, crap sites, member areas, scams, click here get the 2nd word crap, more than I could ever list, the list is longer and more complex than I could ever dream.

The problem really is Webmasters and staff thinking they are what the business is about. I don't want to be a dick about it, but everyone that doesn't own a paysite/program is clueless to what is really going on, fact.

Sadly, A1R3K got a dose of the truth at the show, the comments don't help. For every one person who cares you have 1000 that could careless. I just hope they finally understand they can't stop what is going on, the scale is larger than Tubes times 1000, and it always has been.

At the end of the day, the fact always remains, the more people that see your stamp/logo/cut/brand whatever it is, the higher changes you have of making a sale. Conversion ratios are gone, volume is god.

The entire idea of free, trademarks, brand, patents, ect is gone. Shap is 100% correct, the Internet and largly Google has and is killing this even more.

People will "always" pay - your mission now is to get them any damn way possible because they left our porn traffic bubble and if you only work inside that bubble, your business will die.

TheDoc · 02-14-2008, 04:41 PM

Don't forget, programs still to this day double and triple bill, other programs where buying nats lists and mailing them, toolbars and spyware is still an issue, companies have been sued by the ftc for spam, people have lost visa merchant accounts for 10%+ cb limits.

Free porn didn't kill us, all the sponsor you people promote did because 99.9% of you only care about money and Tube sites give you a way to repent.

testpie · 02-14-2008, 04:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Makaveli

I don't understand whats so hard about protecting your content? Why not use DRM? Wouldn't that solve all this bullshit?? I hear stuff like oh the surfers hates it, they leave if they can't download the videos. You know what I say? FUCK the Surfer. If you have high quality exclusive content then will he really leave if he's a fan of your stuff? No he'll stay a member as long as he was going too anyway, then once he cancels his membership he gets no more access to your content. Cya wanker, want access again? Pay me. You spend millions on content and just leave it out in the open for anybody to come in and take it?? Doesn't make sense to me.

DRM isn't the turnkey solution to Internet theft that DRM providers would like you to believe it is. There's nothing to stop you from using a DRM package on your content, only for a pirate to either bypass that DRM with software and provide an unfettered version elsewhere (torrent, tube etc.) - and even if they can't bypass it with software, you're never going to be able to stop a determined thief from simply capturing their video card's output and bypassing the DRM that way.

TheDoc · 02-14-2008, 04:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by testpie

DRM isn't the turnkey solution to Internet theft that DRM providers would like you to believe it is. There's nothing to stop you from using a DRM package on your content, only for a pirate to either bypass that DRM with software and provide an unfettered version elsewhere (torrent, tube etc.) - and even if they can't bypass it with software, you're never going to be able to stop a determined thief from simply capturing their video card's output and bypassing the DRM that way.

Actually you have several ways to help protect from on screen video recording. The DRM software packages today work very well and have very little issues too. It may not be perfect, but VOD sites prove that it has come a long ways and it proves piracy can be damn near stopped.

The fact is most owners don't know how to setup drm or really can't afford the change over. Anything else is an excuse.

seeric · 02-14-2008, 04:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDoc

Sadly, A1R3K got a dose of the truth at the show, the comments don't help.

I'm a lot smarter than I let on.

I didn't see anything at the show that I didn't know to be true.

I got a very aggressive piracy organization founded and ready to kick ass.

I do not care for your perspective on a lot of things.

I do not feel any differently than I did a few months ago.

Now I just won't waste my time trying to help people.

I will now help myself, others in my circle, and the people who put money in my bank accounts. If someone wants in one of those categories, they know how to find me. Please try to focus on the "puts money in my bank account" category, as it is my favorite now and forever. If it doesn't concern that category, well take two tablets of Payairekcashatol and call me in the morning.

testpie · 02-14-2008, 04:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDoc

Actually you have several ways to help protect from on screen video recording. The DRM software packages today work very well and have very little issues too. It may not be perfect, but VOD sites prove that it has come a long ways and it proves piracy can be damn near stopped.

Got any links to one of these DRM packages that can prevent screen recording? The way I've always seen is that nothing can stop you from simply dumping the video output of your card elsewhere, as the DRM software shouldn't be permitted by video drivers to interfere in the software-to-hardware chain.

Failing that, surely nothing can stop someone from rigging up a webcam and simply circumventing DRM the old school way?

Snake Doctor · 02-14-2008, 04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDoc

Actually you have several ways to help protect from on screen video recording. The DRM software packages today work very well and have very little issues too. It may not be perfect, but VOD sites prove that it has come a long ways and it proves piracy can be damn near stopped.

The fact is most owners don't know how to setup drm or really can't afford the change over. Anything else is an excuse.

I think the big issue with DRM is member resistance.

I'm sure every major program would use DRM if they honestly thought it would improve their bottom line in the long run.
But members complain, cancel, and never come back.
Review sites give you a black mark for it....they talk about you on the BBS's, etc etc.

»Rob Content« · 02-14-2008, 04:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shap

- They could use 2 - 3 minute clips to promote Twistys.
- Banners and advertising in and around the clip must be for Twistys and Twistys only.
- We do NOT accept traffic from any links that have stolen content on them.

Well Shap, I just went to redtube to take a look around, because as we know people who make their money off stolen content will 100% follow the rules right? lol

So in what i'm about to post one of a few things happened..

1. You lied
2. You need to hire better people to "monitor them closely"
3. they are just fucking you
4. You own AFF, Brazzers, Sexsearch, and private feeds.

So I go to redtube and look for twistys material and look what I find.

Here is a twistys video.

To the right I find an ad for private feeds and sex search. Both violate your rules.

Under the video I find a brazzers ad, also violates your rules.

When the video is done, I can click it and go to AFF. Once again violates your rules.

To the right I can click banners that take me to AFF. Once again violates your rules.

So now Shap, I have 2 questions for you.

Question 1

What will you do about it?

Question 2

Under the twistys Vid it has related videos some of them are 20 minute long clips.. which are not yours, some are water marked.. Is this ok with you as well?

Oh wait I looked around more, found more twistys videos..

http://www.redtube.com/7647

Private feeds, AFF, Sex search, Brazzers, video ends and it takes me to AFF again if I click the video.

http://www.redtube.com/7845

Look another twistys video, AFF, Sex search, brazzers, private feeds. Video ends I click it goes to sexsearch.

I found about 20 more of them.

Can you please explain and break this down for me...

thanks..

TheDoc · 02-14-2008, 04:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snake Doctor

I think the big issue with DRM is member resistance.

I'm sure every major program would use DRM if they honestly thought it would improve their bottom line in the long run.
But members complain, cancel, and never come back.
Review sites give you a black mark for it....they talk about you on the BBS's, etc etc.

And 8 years ago when everyone tested this, it was true. But today people are using DRM without member issues.

Don't get me going on review sites, just tell them to change the review. It's as simple as that.

will76 · 02-14-2008, 04:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A1R3K

i'm mentally beat to be honest. the time i wasted trying to get people to unite on this subject i could have invested in seo on my personal projects and made 1000's more in revenue.

i feel like i'm letting down the good guys a little, but i'm still there, lurking in the shadows, watching.

i know the feeling.

TheDoc · 02-14-2008, 04:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by testpie

Got any links to one of these DRM packages that can prevent screen recording? The way I've always seen is that nothing can stop you from simply dumping the video output of your card elsewhere, as the DRM software shouldn't be permitted by video drivers to interfere in the software-to-hardware chain.

Failing that, surely nothing can stop someone from rigging up a webcam and simply circumventing DRM the old school way?

It's not the DRM software that does it, it's something else. It has to do with on-screen recording and not out putting it to another computer, tv, or whatever and recording it.

I can drive to a local shop, grab a dvd, rip it, and do the same thing. But fact is that happens so little, that it's only another excuse.

tony286 · 02-14-2008, 05:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VG.Content

Well Shap, I just went to redtube to take a look around, because as we know people who make their money off stolen content will 100% follow the rules right? lol

So in what i'm about to post one of a few things happened..

1. You lied
2. You need to hire better people to "monitor them closely"
3. they are just fucking you
4. You own AFF, Brazzers, Sexsearch, and private feeds.

So I go to redtube and look for twistys material and look what I find.

Here is a twistys video.

To the right I find an ad for private feeds and sex search. Both violate your rules.

Under the video I find a brazzers ad, also violates your rules.

When the video is done, I can click it and go to AFF. Once again violates your rules.

To the right I can click banners that take me to AFF. Once again violates your rules.

So now Shap, I have 2 questions for you.

Question 1

What will you do about it?

Question 2

Under the twistys Vid it has related videos some of them are 20 minute long clips.. which are not yours, some are water marked.. Is this ok with you as well?

Oh wait I looked around more, found more twistys videos..

http://www.redtube.com/7647

Private feeds, AFF, Sex search, Brazzers, video ends and it takes me to AFF again if I click the video.

http://www.redtube.com/7845

Look another twistys video, AFF, Sex search, brazzers, private feeds. Video ends I click it goes to sexsearch.

I found about 20 more of them.

Can you please explain and break this down for me...

thanks..

It should be interesting what shap has to say?

TheDoc · 02-14-2008, 05:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by will76

i know the feeling.

Don't you feel that posting on tube threads is a little hypicrital?

testpie · 02-14-2008, 05:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDoc

It's not the DRM software that does it, it's something else. It has to do with on-screen recording and not out putting it to another computer, tv, or whatever and recording it.

I can drive to a local shop, grab a dvd, rip it, and do the same thing. But fact is that happens so little, that it's only another excuse.

I wasn't suggesting that users themselves were going to circumvent DRM - I'd hazard a guess that most aren't going to be that tech-savvy to do so - I was suggesting that a pirate can still get around the DRM and produce an unfettered version which can then be distributed by other means, making membership of a site seem pointless if a surfer manages to find these methods before your join page.

TheDoc · 02-14-2008, 05:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by testpie

I wasn't suggesting that users themselves were going to circumvent DRM - I'd hazard a guess that most aren't going to be that tech-savvy to do so - I was suggesting that a pirate can still get around the DRM and produce an unfettered version which can then be distributed by other means, making membership of a site seem pointless if a surfer manages to find these methods before your join page.

Aye, but you are thinking that people care about porn enough to sit and do that to an entire members area. Content is stolen now because it's so easy to steal. VOD sites use DRM and you don't see those 1000's of exclusive DVD's blasted all of tubes or torrents.

will76 · 02-14-2008, 05:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shap

Our Position Regarding RedTube and Tube Sites... Since we can't get the theives to stop stealling it we decided to do business with them.

edited for the short version

Quote:

RedTube is an affiliate of ours. RedTube came to us and asked to be an affiliate several weeks ago.

Redtube has tons of stolen content on their site. Their site exists because of the stolen full lenght videos they have listed there.

So a known thief asks you to do business with their illegal opperation. You say, ok ?

Quote:

I told them there are rules and these rules must be followed in order to get paid and remain in good standing with TwistysCash. With regards to our video here is what we asked of them:

- They could use 2 - 3 minute clips to promote Twistys.
- Banners and advertising in and around the clip must be for Twistys and Twistys only.
- We do NOT accept traffic from any links that have stolen content on them.

Now, we've kept a close eye on RedTube and so far they've been an ideal affiliate. They are doing what we ask and they have been very pleasant to deal with. They are following the rules that apply to all our affiliates.

apparently that is not the case. Do you really trust and want to do business with thieves ?

" ideal affiliate " LAMO, they are ripping off several sites and you refer to them as ideal affiliates. So if I commit fraud or steal traffic from someone else to send it Twistys is that ok with you. You do not care how people get their traffic ? You know the traffic that goes to THAT SITE is because of stolen content on it, that is what gets your page on their SITE traffic. What the hell does it matter if there is stolen content on the same page with you, it is still all over the site you are doing business with.

Quote:

Tube sites are notorious for content theft. Ok, point made. Now, I do not believe there is a single person on GFY that has more content theft problems than we do. Twistys is the biggest babes site on the web and along with this status comes the problem of people constantly ripping off our content. We know what is like to invest MILLIONS of dollars a year in to content only to see it being ripped off by various sites and have other individuals profiting from it. For the past 2 years I've seen our content on HUNDREDS of user boards and blogs - all without a single Twistys ad. Believe me, it's hell to see my content being paired up with AFF banners and banners to the most popular PPS adult sponsors.... but not Twistys. We have worked hard at protecting our content and it always feels like a losing battle. We've spent large amounts of money on lawyers fighting content theft and spent endless hours DMCAing websites. Here we are in 2008 and the situation is WORSE than ever. Year after year we sit back and continue to get ripped off with each new board, blog, and tube site that is born. This is why we are taking action. Action to attempt some theft control- to turn the tables in our favor at least SOME of the time.

So we should expect to see Twistys doing business with megarotic, youporn and the other big illegal tube sites.

Question for you Shap, we know that you think Redtube is "ideal affiliates" for you but what if Megarotic tells you to fuck off they dont want to be your affiliate and they dont care if people upload your full length videos.
What do you do then, one hand fight illegal tube sites that wont partner with you and then on the other hand do business with the ones that will ?

Quote:

Here's something I want to share with you - it relates to how our industry is changing. Tube sites are indicative of HOW people surf for their porn today. Tube sites have changed surfing habits as well as consumer expectations because the word 'tube' is now synonymous with FREE (and user-driven videos.) As a result of this transition to tube sites, they are forcing all of us to work harder. They are forcing all of us to produce a better product and to be better at what we are doing. In an industry known for quick and easy money, the idea of having to work our asses off to make a quality product is a scary one. What's scarier is the idea that you might even have to change your business model to get with the times. The truth is, things are not going back to the way they were. The web is changing. As a result, the 'free sites' and other traditional means of traffic pooling we used to rely on, are slowly dying. With this in mind, we should not only be worrying about stolen content; rather, we should be focusing on building a higher quality product. Wouldn't you agree?

Everyone knows how tube sites work asshole, and everyone agress that they get a lot of traffic and that this is the new big thing. However there are such a thing as legal and illegal tube sites. You chose to do business with thieves.

Quote:

While I am 100% against tube sites using illegal/stolen content, you guys have to realize tube sites are a part of our industry right now (and the near future) whether you like it or not.

" i am 100% against them and content theft but I made them an affiliate

For the last time we all agree tube sites will be around for long time, but you dont understand the difference with tube sites with illegal content and tube sites that dont have stolen content on it.

notoldschool · 02-14-2008, 05:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDoc

Or I could give this another twist... What about all the major companies that got hammered for spamming by the FTC?

Aren't those all your favorite programs that I see all time, posted here? Hell will76 openly supports a program that openly rips people off, but if you target stolen content, you are a thief?

Other than a few, most of us promote at least one of the companies that got busted spamming by the Gov. They admitted guilt and got fined. But that's okay, why?

Because spamming doesnt hurt companies bottem line. Email does not = theft. sorry to inform you of that.

Horny Dude · 02-14-2008, 05:45 PM

I just wanted to post here!

JP-pornshooter · 02-14-2008, 05:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LadyMischief

Great post Shap. People in the adult space are almost oblivious of the ways that surfers are using the tools provided to them anymore, and it's refreshing to see someone realize that WE cannot shape THEM, WE must adapt to how THEY do things in order to survive.

i doubt the owners of HGV shares your views on this subject.

Gerco · 02-14-2008, 05:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlienQ

You are a hopeless romantic, but its cute.

But all I am saying really is people need to police thier own shit and work where it is possible to generate income. It is irresponsible of other companies to just let thier content go stolen and do nothing at all. Blame them.

Its part of the new environment and when you see this from the new perspective maybe you will realise you are cussing out the wrong guy.

Hmm... I send out at least 10 DMCA Letters a month... I just don't have time for any more than that. How exactly are you suggesting that a one man operation police content around the net? So, just because of this man power limitation, I should just be happy with the way it is currently? So, In your own words... this is my problem, and not the tube sites, since I can't possibly monitor every tube site out there, let alone the rapidshares, piratebays, blogs and whatever else pops up. Because of this I'm the irresponsible one eh? Not, the thieves that took it, uploaded it illegally, or are profiting on it. Nice way of looking at things I guess.

chymp · 02-14-2008, 05:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDoc

Don't forget, programs still to this day double and triple bill, other programs where buying nats lists and mailing them, toolbars and spyware is still an issue, companies have been sued by the ftc for spam, people have lost visa merchant accounts for 10%+ cb limits.

Free porn didn't kill us, all the sponsor you people promote did because 99.9% of you only care about money and Tube sites give you a way to repent.

Amen to that. Can I get a witness?

TheAgent · 02-14-2008, 05:57 PM

Some of you are just bitter because you cant figure out how to get around tube sites. You either keep up with the times or you get the fuck out. You might want to try a business with some basic fundamentals:
1. Consistent Demand
2. Consistent Income
3. Regardless of Economic conditions demand remains high
4. Barriers to entry are high
5. Competition is manageable
6. High cash flow(Cash meaning no taxes

)

Solution: Gas Station, Seven-Eleven, Subway Store, Hotels, Motels

Tube sites are here and here to stay, if I were some of you I would form a group and make my own tube site, put my older porn videos on the site and try to attract whoever I can to the paid section.

halfpint · 02-14-2008, 06:03 PM

If you cant beat them...Join them
If you cant Join them..Fuck them
If you cant Fuck them..Ignore them
If you cant Ignore them..well then you are fucked

onno · 02-14-2008, 06:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VG.Content

Well Shap, I just went to redtube to take a look around, because as we know people who make their money off stolen content will 100% follow the rules right? lol

So in what i'm about to post one of a few things happened..

1. You lied
2. You need to hire better people to "monitor them closely"
3. they are just fucking you
4. You own AFF, Brazzers, Sexsearch, and private feeds.

So I go to redtube and look for twistys material and look what I find.

Here is a twistys video.

To the right I find an ad for private feeds and sex search. Both violate your rules.

Under the video I find a brazzers ad, also violates your rules.

When the video is done, I can click it and go to AFF. Once again violates your rules.

To the right I can click banners that take me to AFF. Once again violates your rules.

So now Shap, I have 2 questions for you.

Question 1

What will you do about it?

Question 2

Under the twistys Vid it has related videos some of them are 20 minute long clips.. which are not yours, some are water marked.. Is this ok with you as well?

Oh wait I looked around more, found more twistys videos..

http://www.redtube.com/7647

Private feeds, AFF, Sex search, Brazzers, video ends and it takes me to AFF again if I click the video.

http://www.redtube.com/7845

Look another twistys video, AFF, Sex search, brazzers, private feeds. Video ends I click it goes to sexsearch.

I found about 20 more of them.

Can you please explain and break this down for me...

thanks..

WTF, you just make me loose time reading your retarded post

just next to the movie there is a banner for twistys

the other advertisements in the site doesn't have nothing to do with that... so i don't think shap is going to tell you much about this... maybe he will call you retard

seeric · 02-14-2008, 06:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheAgent

Some of you are just bitter because you cant figure out how to get around tube sites. You either keep up with the times or you get the fuck out. You might want to try a business with some basic fundamentals:
1. Consistent Demand
2. Consistent Income
3. Regardless of Economic conditions demand remains high
4. Barriers to entry are high
5. Competition is manageable
6. High cash flow(Cash meaning no taxes

)

Solution: Gas Station, Seven-Eleven, Subway Store, Hotels, Motels

Tube sites are here and here to stay, if I were some of you I would form a group and make my own tube site, put my older porn videos on the site and try to attract whoever I can to the paid section.

Gee I wonder who you are? LOL.

I could find out in about 20 seconds.

Evey one of you jerkoffs that posts about adapting and innovating is naive at best. you win the prize.

Where do I mail the box of puke?

TheDoc · 02-14-2008, 06:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by notoldschool

Because spamming doesnt hurt companies bottem line. Email does not = theft. sorry to inform you of that.

What Shap is doing is not illegal.

Email spam, mailing ex members, is illegal, the people mailing the nats members is illegal. Several companies have been sued and settled, guilty, from the FTC over email. It's all illegal.

Again, what Shap is doing is 100% legal. Just because you feel differently does not change the facts.

You have been informed.

ultimatebbwdotcom · 02-14-2008, 06:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDoc

Actually you have several ways to help protect from on screen video recording. The DRM software packages today work very well and have very little issues too. It may not be perfect, but VOD sites prove that it has come a long ways and it proves piracy can be damn near stopped.

The fact is most owners don't know how to setup drm or really can't afford the change over. Anything else is an excuse.

Absolutely, there are very few excuses for not going DRM.

The odd person may circumvent it from time to time but the majority of members will have absolutely no clue.

Saving to hard drive and reposting everywhere for a few pats on the back - well, they all know how to do that as we can see.

LadyMischief · 02-14-2008, 06:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by will76

Wow I thought you guys would be the last to agree that doing business with sites that steal content is "adapting". I'll just chalk it up to you didn't understand what you were reading.

If I am wrong then please tell me that Homegrown will start doing with Twistys is doing which is doing business with illegal tube sites that steal content.

You make a lot of assumptions and read a lot into what I said (you are pretty liberal with giving your own spin to things, works so much better for PR anyways doesn't it? Preachers do it all the time).

I said that the adult industry has to adapt to how SURFERS are using TOOLS.... Tube sites are one fo those things... I never said support sites who thieve content, but using the tools that surfers are using to find media is not a bad thing, and it's definitely not going away. Do you even understand the term "technographic"? Mister smartiepants, since you seem to know so much, how about you tell me what kinds of ways surfers ARE finding their information? And I mean not just for adult, because tube sites don't just "target" adult, and a lot of companies, ESPECIALLY mainstream, have come to learn to use these tools and the power of viral marketing. There is such a thing as finding a happy medium, and many companies are fighting content theft with using creative ways to market themselves.

I would be the first to raise a fuss with a site that was using our content illegally. That doesn't mean that because SOME sites do things the wrong way, that they are ALL wrong. There are MANY tube sites that go legitimate routes... Don't throw the baby out with the bath water, and don't try to interpret my words as anything other than what I say. Unlike some I have no need for alterior motives :P

LadyMischief · 02-14-2008, 06:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A1R3K

Gee I wonder who you are? LOL.

I could find out in about 20 seconds.

Evey one of you jerkoffs that posts about adapting and innovating is naive at best. you win the prize.

Where do I mail the box of puke?

I know you and the people at Shane's World get it. Unfortunately for them, a lot of adult will be left in the dust when all the chips are down. Fortune always shines on the pioneers ;)

seeric · 02-14-2008, 06:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LadyMischief

I know you and the people at Shane's World get it. Unfortunately for them, a lot of adult will be left in the dust when all the chips are down. Fortune always shines on the pioneers ;)

i'm not teaching anyone anything anymore.

well, unless i find something juicy that you might like

LadyMischief · 02-14-2008, 06:22 PM

I would remind you all of the evolution of Youtube and it's move from "content theft" to legitimate business model, simply because companies and movie studios made a stand and made consessions to work with Youtube in a mutually benificial way. THEY made the choice to adapt the media by smart business negotiation, not simply by threats and posturing. This is the way of life and business.

LadyMischief · 02-14-2008, 06:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A1R3K

i'm not teaching anyone anything anymore.

well, unless i find something juicy that you might like

*swoon* You know I'm all about that, and likewise as always! ;)

tony286 · 02-14-2008, 06:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LadyMischief

I would remind you all of the evolution of Youtube and it's move from "content theft" to legitimate business model, simply because companies and movie studios made a stand and made consessions to work with Youtube in a mutually benificial way. THEY made the choice to adapt the media by smart business negotiation, not simply by threats and posturing. This is the way of life and business.

actually they started suing them and youtube developed filtering.

LadyMischief · 02-14-2008, 06:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tony404

actually they started suing them and youtube developed filtering.

Yes, but those companies ALSo provide Youtube with things like Movie trailers and special release materials that can't be found elsewhere. They also realize the power of this form of media, and the communities built around it. Don't you think that if it wasn't something worth their while they would continue to do it? If more companies went to sites like Redtube and took the wind out of their sails in a way that Shap has done here with regards to protecting the integrity of his brand and product in the eyes of his MEMBERS (and potentials) who, in the end are the ones that he has to worry about the most, then more people would have more control over the way their content is presented. Most of us realize that either the sites or surfers are going to put it out there anyways.. why not have it done on OUR terms instead of under our noses? Just seems to make sense to me... Either that, or all of mainstream are stupid and have no idea how to do good business, either.

Mutt · 02-14-2008, 06:29 PM

there's still one humongous lawsuit by Viacom against YouTube that says it is very far from a legitimate business model.

TheDoc · 02-14-2008, 06:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tony404

actually they started suing them and youtube developed filtering.

Youtube filtered first, then when a few deals went bad they got sued.

notoldschool · 02-14-2008, 06:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDoc

What Shap is doing is not illegal.

Email spam, mailing ex members, is illegal, the people mailing the nats members is illegal. Several companies have been sued and settled, guilty, from the FTC over email. It's all illegal.

Again, what Shap is doing is 100% legal. Just because you feel differently does not change the facts.

You have been informed.

Umm.. can you read. I never said what Shep was doing was illegal. I said content theft is illegal. Get it right please before you puff out your chest.

LadyMischief · 02-14-2008, 06:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mutt

there's still one humongous lawsuit by Viacom against YouTube that says it is very far from a legitimate business model.

The problem is this. Surfers, the general public, gen x, gen y, and all freaking surfers on the web have embraced these media methods as the way they seek and find information. Can we change that? No. Many people hated TGP and MGP when they first came on strong because it gave away too much free content, people swore up and down it would die, blah blah blah. Then, it became more legitimate... programs started PROVIDING galleries for people to post... they almost build an entire affiliate business model based on it. The progression from fad to institution happens very quickly, and like it or not, we are not going to be able to change that fact. We can c and d every single site that has our content, and spend every waking hour policing the entire span of the internet to find people violating our copyrights. We're simply not going to accomplish it.

Life gives you lemons, make lemonade. There are ways that we as an industry can adapt this tool to our use, like we used to in the past. The adult industry was at the FOREFRONT of adapting new tools to our use to make money. Seems like all we do now is fight, yell, scream and bicker about these changes like a bunch of old women at the church picnic. There are better solutions, other options, and much more useful things we can do with our time that do involve a happy medium. It just means we have to get off our collective asses and figure it out like we did in the past, that's all.

tony286 · 02-14-2008, 06:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LadyMischief

Yes, but those companies ALSo provide Youtube with things like Movie trailers and special release materials that can't be found elsewhere. They also realize the power of this form of media, and the communities built around it. Don't you think that if it wasn't something worth their while they would continue to do it? If more companies went to sites like Redtube and took the wind out of their sails in a way that Shap has done here with regards to protecting the integrity of his brand and product in the eyes of his MEMBERS (and potentials) who, in the end are the ones that he has to worry about the most, then more people would have more control over the way their content is presented. Most of us realize that either the sites or surfers are going to put it out there anyways.. why not have it done on OUR terms instead of under our noses? Just seems to make sense to me... Either that, or all of mainstream are stupid and have no idea how to do good business, either.

If our industry didnt buy ads on illegal tubes or make affiliates of them,they wouldn't exist. No money no pay the bandwidth bill. Our industry funded the growth of this monster.

TheDoc · 02-14-2008, 06:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by notoldschool

Umm.. can you read. I never said what Shep was doing was illegal. I said content theft is illegal. Get it right please before you puff out your chest.

You didn't have to say what Shap was doing, was illegal. You said "Email does not = theft."

I was informing you that email is illegal, like theft. And what Shap is doing is not illegal, it's nothing like theft or anything illegal.

And spamming hurts everyones bottom line, far more than tubes. It is the #1 complaint from surfers and members.

LadyMischief · 02-14-2008, 06:39 PM

oh, and check out www.hulu.com

LadyMischief · 02-14-2008, 06:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tony404

If our industry didnt buy ads on illegal tubes or make affiliates of them,they wouldn't exist. No money no pay the bandwidth bill. Our industry funded the growth of this monster.

I can't say I 100% agree with you on that.. Some sites would go away, but some would not. There's a reason for that, and it's the same kind of reason sites like Youtube are the juggernauts they are. Of course, I doubt most people here would figure out what that is, nor would they believe the answer if they heard it. Far too many jaded people in this business.

TheDoc · 02-14-2008, 06:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tony404

If our industry didnt buy ads on illegal tubes or make affiliates of them,they wouldn't exist. No money no pay the bandwidth bill. Our industry funded the growth of this monster.

Not all of them, but most are owned by Affiliate Programs. They aren't going any where.

LadyMischief · 02-14-2008, 06:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JP-pornshooter

i doubt the owners of HGV shares your views on this subject.

All I have to say is that Farrell and the rest of the people at HGV have always been pioneers and visionaries who have a true understanding of the marketplace and where the future is going in that marketplace. Remember, there is a happy medium and a better outlet

xxxice · 02-14-2008, 06:47 PM

LOL you are looking up to sites like youtube that have yet to show a profit and have a huge pending lawsuit against them. At the same time you are embracing thieves great plan for the future of adult

nophest · 02-14-2008, 06:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by newbreed

I would reply in this thread with my thoughts, but I am too busy filling out DMCA's for RedTube and XNXX

Save yourself the time to write emails just icq me 11057929.

We can keep your content off our sites but for the same reason we HAVE TO do this, you too should (have to) work with tube sites.

It's do or die.

seeric · 02-14-2008, 06:49 PM

Reminder:

I am a duck.

tony286 · 02-14-2008, 06:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LadyMischief

I can't say I 100% agree with you on that.. Some sites would go away, but some would not. There's a reason for that, and it's the same kind of reason sites like Youtube are the juggernauts they are. Of course, I doubt most people here would figure out what that is, nor would they believe the answer if they heard it. Far too many jaded people in this business.

Youtube had investor money before google.

02-14-2008, 04:32 PM	#302
Snake Doctor I'm Lenny2 Bitch Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: On top of my soapbox Posts: 13,449	__________________ sig too big

02-14-2008, 04:41 PM	#304
TheDoc Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Currently Incognito Posts: 13,827	Don't forget, programs still to this day double and triple bill, other programs where buying nats lists and mailing them, toolbars and spyware is still an issue, companies have been sued by the ftc for spam, people have lost visa merchant accounts for 10%+ cb limits. Free porn didn't kill us, all the sponsor you people promote did because 99.9% of you only care about money and Tube sites give you a way to repent. __________________ ~TheDoc - ICQ7765825 It's all disambiguation

02-14-2008, 05:45 PM	#320
Horny Dude Earn enough to buy coffee Industry Role: Join Date: May 2002 Location: San Diego, Ca. Posts: 4,913	I just wanted to post here! __________________

02-14-2008, 05:57 PM	#324
TheAgent Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Dirty Jersey Posts: 265	Some of you are just bitter because you cant figure out how to get around tube sites. You either keep up with the times or you get the fuck out. You might want to try a business with some basic fundamentals: 1. Consistent Demand 2. Consistent Income 3. Regardless of Economic conditions demand remains high 4. Barriers to entry are high 5. Competition is manageable 6. High cash flow(Cash meaning no taxes ) Solution: Gas Station, Seven-Eleven, Subway Store, Hotels, Motels Tube sites are here and here to stay, if I were some of you I would form a group and make my own tube site, put my older porn videos on the site and try to attract whoever I can to the paid section. __________________ I think Big, I think Fast and I think Ahead

02-14-2008, 06:03 PM	#325
halfpint GFY's Halfpint Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: UK Posts: 15,223	If you cant beat them...Join them If you cant Join them..Fuck them If you cant Fuck them..Ignore them If you cant Ignore them..well then you are fucked __________________ Get FREE website listings on Cryptocoinshops.net

02-14-2008, 06:22 PM	#333
LadyMischief Orgasms N Such! Industry Role: Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Oakville, Ontario Posts: 18,135	I would remind you all of the evolution of Youtube and it's move from "content theft" to legitimate business model, simply because companies and movie studios made a stand and made consessions to work with Youtube in a mutually benificial way. THEY made the choice to adapt the media by smart business negotiation, not simply by threats and posturing. This is the way of life and business. __________________ ICQ 3522039 Content Manager - orgasm.com [email protected]

02-14-2008, 06:29 PM	#337
Mutt Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 34,431	there's still one humongous lawsuit by Viacom against YouTube that says it is very far from a legitimate business model. __________________ I moved my sites to Vacares Hosting. I've saved money, my hair is thicker, lost some weight too! Thanks Sly!

02-14-2008, 06:39 PM	#343
LadyMischief Orgasms N Such! Industry Role: Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Oakville, Ontario Posts: 18,135	oh, and check out www.hulu.com __________________ ICQ 3522039 Content Manager - orgasm.com [email protected]

02-14-2008, 06:47 PM	#347
xxxice Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 5,042	LOL you are looking up to sites like youtube that have yet to show a profit and have a huge pending lawsuit against them. At the same time you are embracing thieves great plan for the future of adult

02-14-2008, 06:49 PM	#349
seeric .......... Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: .......... Posts: 41,917	Reminder: I am a duck.