I will never welcome or knowingly approve any tube site as an affiliate due to their shady business practices and how they all got started. This would be a loogie in the face to our hard working affiliates. I have heard a lot of good things about you Shap and read many of your threads which I found to be very professional and informational but this... I don't agree with this at all and will never endorse your views regarding tube sites... period.

Still waiting for you to answer a few simple questions until you do why should anyone take you seriously?

Jim ever have to beg to have your sweat and blood taken down? Have to keep the email very nice or nothing would be done. Ever have a full rip of your paysite on a bt with AFF ads on either side of it? I have.
Tubes arent tgp's, you really think the surfer is going to go from 20 min scenes to 2 min and say great now I guess I have to buy porn? Thats funny.

Ok what if i make an mgp of all your fhg and put every single one up in links then skim the site and sell ads to AFF is that ok?

quoted for truth.

Still waiting on you to answer any questions posed of you....

So one comes in nice and now your the pitbull? Is that the way it works? Lets not change the subject I didnt start this thread.

No i have not....but if i needed to i would.....i would then teach the tube owner exactly how to use the content and the ony acceptable means....as with any other affiliate

Dont ask me what i would or would not do anyhow.....the hypocrisy on this forum is mind numbing.

Yes I am the pitbull, I am asking you a simple question to frame my understanding of your position on this, so far you have yet to answer it, so your point of "hating" tube sites isn't valid to me.

When/If you answer those questions I can then frame my response to your opinion, until then I am guessing at your motives or reasoning, and I don't like to guess.

Your correct turning them down for an affiliate account would not stop them from doing business, but it would set an example for the rest of the industry, it would show people that you are an outstanding program and that you as the owner have a high moral regard for other peoples property. But I guess it would not make you money in the short term ?







.

Jim sorry that wasn't intended for you but for Tony404 I am waiting for him to respond to some questions....

I really like the second paragraph there, its amazing how guys come in loving a program that mails its members daily, ex-members hourly, runs multiple pre-check cross sales, consoles on top of consoles that go to other programs and hijack affiliate traffic, yet care if one program accepts traffic from a tube site hypocrisy is probably a daily affirmation...

They only have my sig on this board. I have two paysites we are a mom pop operation so every little bit helps and Im tired of having to beg tubes,bt's to take my shit down.Also I dont fuck the surfer and I looked up to shap as far as taking care of the customer. Which I always felt was important.

This is exactly what happened with RedTube. We approached them about our stolen content. They replied telling us they really want to work with us and follow our rules. We laid out what are rules were and they've followed them. I think they've approached many sites about this but everyone is slamming the door in their face. That isn't going to get them to go away.

How many companies in our industry started out the wrong way and found their way and became huge successes? It seems to be the way our industry works. I think that has a lot to do with the nature and the cost of entry. With such a low cost of entry anybody can start a company in our industry. Some start off by bending the rules. Others start of by stealing designs, content etc. As an industry we've never had an issue with this and we've been willing to give people a chance to become legit.

I think that no matter what side of the fence you are on that this is a great conversation for everyone to be having in the forums. Even if you don't agree with Shap's decision, I think there are a few things you can't disagree with:

- Twisty's character and reputation for good, honest business has always preceeded them. Any suggestion that they're not great to both their members and their affiliates is not only unfounded but absurd.

- By setting clear boundaries they have established how their content appears and that the advertising around it is relevant - that is responsible. Making sure that their advertising doesn't appear on pages without their content is extraordinarily responsible. This does effectively further legitimize these sites ONE PAGE AT A TIME... fuck people, at least that's something positive.

To lead by example isn't easy but I think that's what Shap and Beth are trying to do here. I'm not stupid, I see that the dissenting view is best summed by saying that it's wrong to do business with RedTube as an affiliate until there is no stolen content appearing *anywhere* on their web site. Fundamentally, we all agree and see that - I'm sure Shap does too. Leading by example though is realizing that this medium (tube sites) is a completely unstoppable force and if a property like RedTube can change from being an offender to a positive example of how a tube site should be run then we will actually be better off than we are now, I think.

I also think everyone needs to really view this situation as a CHICKEN VS. EGG debate - tube sites are here, they're not going anywhere.... it seems to me that it's possible we will see a complete 360 on RedTube's content shortly if they're attempting to work with every affiliate program and hopefully continue to see more of the same on other tube properties in the future.

You think there are problems now? Everyone here needs to realize that for every tube site that you've seen or heard of there will be 50 more next year. Whats fundamentally wrong with tube sites is content theft, period. It's too late to bitch about too much free stuff out there and decreased sales, etc, that's already upon us. The best thing that could happen right now would be for webmasters to be developing nice new tube sites with properly licensed content and for affiliate programs to be proactively working with already established tube sites so that they can change their ways.

The whole situation sucks for everyone except the tube site owners who have nothing to lose and everything to gain. We can sit here and discuss hating them but really everyone should be doing one of two things: 1) sending DMCAs and filing lawsuits, or 2) establishing legitimate business practices in that market with the creation of new sites that "play by the rules" or working with established sites to transform their model into something legitimate, even if it's one page or sponsor at a time.

:2 cents:

Brad

Do you really think surfers are going to go from full scenes to 2-3 min clips and now say oh I have to buy a membership?
I hope your right and im wrong because I think this shit is going to be our down fall on many different levels and everyone is going to be standing around saying what happened?

Fantastic to here, I am glad you are running a mom and pop, and sorry to hear you allow money to come in to you in sigs that you don't fully vet. You may want to sign up as a user to lovedollers.com without telling them and see how you enjoy the experience.

As for not fucking the surfer it is one of our prime goals everyday to provide our members with the best possible experience, we continue to spend millions of dollars on content above and beyond IMO any other online company. That in no way takes away from our responsibilty to our affiliates and in that we work VERY hard to convert and monetize the traffic from all our affiliates, and we decline traffic on a daily basis from sources we don't agree with.

Tube sites are they the problem? or are the people running the sites the problem? Was thumbnails on sites stealing traffic from text only sites? Was MGP's over TGP's stealing affiliate sales away from the original owners?

To me tube sites are here and if you honestly believe they are going anywhere you are living in a world that I don't understand. NBC and other major networks have created their own tube networks to handle the online distribution of video to surfers, why if Major media is joining the tube race would any company look at blocking them as a traffic source? Wouldn't they instead work at creating a way to monetize that traffic and control it? Shap outlined a way for ALL affiliate programs to monetize tube traffic, Redtube does ok with us as an affiliate as good as any average tgp.

Wow, tony404 is running is big fat uneducated mouth again. What are the odds of that?

Please explain how its uneducated? Uneducated that I had to beg to get my shit removed?

No shit. Twistys is no better than AFF. Love how he comes on a webmaster board just to rub it in everyones face. Funny shit.

I take this back I dont want fight with you warchild everyone is going to take different sides on this. Threads like this upset me too much the path isnt going to change no matter what I say. Im hitting my head against a wall. good luck everybody has to go down their own path.

Fact: Redtube is one of those tube sites that offer stolen content.
Fact: You know they offer stolen content.
Fact: You pay Redtubes bills
Fact: That makes you accessory to theft with knowledge.

No better than a company that just sold 500 million?? SHIT that means we must really blow, btw side note as to our earlier discussion how is Ron Paul doing in the primaries?

I can't answer that question. It worries me day in and day out. I've accepted that profit margins will be decreasing. I can't let that stop me from running my business. That's why I'm spending large amounts of money back into our site so we can provide something to our members that isn't going to be available outside our members area.

You support content thief. Simple as that. Here is a big FUCK YOU. Using others peoples ripped off content to bring people in to see and get to your content... fuck you. Thanks for helping the thief survive and continue... btw... did I say FUCK YOU yet?

I actually meant uneducated in general.

You constantly beat up on every tube site, without exception, even though you really have no clue about what's going on with most of them. You'll argue until you're blue in the face with people that just smile and grin back at you. Do you want to know why we smile and grin back at you? Because some of us know what's up with this new business model, and we're making bank hand over fist on it.

If I had to put blind faith in someone in this business based soley on their accomplishments, let me tell you it wouldn't be a hard choice between your or Shap. Not for me. Not for anyone.

Now granted that Redtube is probably or at very least WAS one of the bad guys, so you might have a point this one time, for a change. I'm guessing it's more or less by accident though because as I've said you don't know really know shit about tube sites, you just enjoy talking about them.

The fact that your native language is English, you're an adult and you still don't know the difference between simple words like "then" and "than" or "your" and "you're" is another good example. :2 cents:

Shap: Congratulations... you get it. The business model is changing and you are adapting.

I would stop posting in this thread personally - because I would be absolutely stunned beyond words if this caused you to lose even 1 hit a day.

If this a public tube policy, I have a fully legal tube. If you host .flv I would be very interested in sending to you also.

ICQ: 280389272

What gets me in this deal is that Redtube is still stealing on 1 page and playing by the rules on the other page. So basicly Twistys is allowing Redtube to steal and fuck other sponsors.

If I had a tube site and hotlinked all hosted gallery movies from 10 sponsors but send my traffic to AFF, do you think those sponsors would keep my affiliate account open? The answer is NO!

Before I launched TEVS (tube script) I talked to about 50 sponsors, mostly the big players. Pimproll, ars, perfectgonzo etc.
All said to me, if your webmasters use our videos and hotlink them we expect our adverts on those pages. I knew then what I was doing was the right thing. Iv created a script that promotes the sponsors under their rules but also keeps to the rules of every other sponsor.

Redtube might be keeping to your rules Twistys, but its fucking other sponsors in the ass. I just hope that the next gathering you go to, you don't get punched out like the xtube guy got in Vegas.

PS tony404 is a fat idiot with no business sense who makes $0 in adult. moving on...

IF legitimate webmasters develop and launch new tube sites that follow the rules from the beginning we are all for and would approve in a minute. Unfortunately not many surfers are going to frequently visit a tube site that offers only 3-5 minute clips when they can get the whole deal from a non legit tube site. Our stance is and will remain "We will not approve existing tube sites that are not following the rules and are knowingly using illegal content that they do not have the rights to publish." Come on guys this is 2008 and everyone that does business on the Internet knows if they are using STOLEN content. Public domain is no longer an excuse for ANYONE.

Umm didn't the guy that hit the xtube kid have nothing to do with Adult? Did I read that wrong somewhere?

oohhh that hurts, please dont say bad things about Ron Paul. I might ball up and cry somewhere. LOL your a fucking tool.

how about getting rid of that blasphemous sig.....

"The idea that religion and politics don't mix was invented by the Devil to keep Christians from running their own country."

It makes much less sense than my ron paul sig. trying to push porn in the name of Christ? fucking dumbass.

BTW im sure im not the only one who noticed that you couldnt deny what my post said about supporting theifs.

Put together 2 lists one with the people in this thread that see what Shap is doing and one with a list of the people that cant see it.....

What do you notice about the 2 lists?

your right I dont make a dime.

Dude, stop sucking on twistys dick. Its not going to make your shitty little program any better. Go find a beginner webmaster board and learn something about the biz.

OMG wow that is awesome you have officially become my prime example of why surfers shouldn't post on GFY, do you understand the irony in that quote? No???

And I can deny that we are supporting theives I do right here, any problem with my denying it?

Its easy to piss you off isnt it.

Good point, Im just stupid. Do you feel better?

Always wondered, Is this based on business sense or morals?
Seems to be business > morals... Then you complain why the world is so fucked up.. you dont get to choose...

You're like the whiney fucking anti-war lamers... You don't want soldiers dieing for no reason than its not fair to them? But then agian you dont want the buildings around you crumbling to the ground...

You are the very same people who run to the store when ants infest your house and buy that can of raid are you not?

regardless of anyone's position on anything anymore, someone always gets fucked in evolution. always. it is going to happen. nothing anyone can do about it. you cannot have progress without someone getting the shaft.

Wow, you're spouting off again? You'd imagine that just one time you'd do your research first.

I don't know Shap and I don't send him any sales either. I also don't havea program, shitty little or otherwise.

Beginner webmaster board? I've only been in adult going on I guess 8+ years now. I am now or once was one of the top webmasters for many a large program. Maybe you've heard of some of them? Topbucks, Nasty Dollars, Adult.com, TripleX Cash. You still haven't told us what it is you do.