Time to fight back, here is how! - GoFuckYourself.com

EscortBiz · 10-04-2002, 06:38 PM

Lets think for a minute what the real problem is?

The fact is Visa does not need our 500 bucks and the third party processors don?t need the $250.

But it?s the surfer that is creating a big fucking mess.

The surfer that decided to charge-back because he knows it?s easy, the surfer who requests refunds after jerking off.

Time to stop the problem at its roots.

Time to build a site with the names and addresses of the people who chargedback and upload sample images of what they viewed!

Watch and see these cock sucking surfing thieves stop bitiching for refunds when they really got their balls off.

This is a true way to stop this fuckin chargeback bullshit!

The chargebacks is what?s creating the problem not the third parties and visa, Visa is looking to protect themselves and the third parties are forced to live up to Visa?s regulations.

I will be looking into the legality of having a site like this I strongly believe those fuckers will stop charging back.

Reminds me of the 900 number days when people said ?I never called? FUCKIN LIARS but it all stopped when AmericanTelNet implemented the first 60 seconds of a call being recorded these fuckers PAID THE FUCK UP FAST!

What do you guys think?

Theo · 10-04-2002, 06:40 PM

i like it

[Labret] · 10-04-2002, 06:41 PM

Im sure alot of chargebacks are valid.

As if none of you have taken it in the ass from an adult site.

Marcus · 10-04-2002, 06:43 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by EscortBiz
Time to build a site with the names and addresses of the people who chargedback and upload sample images of what they viewed!

then no one will sign up in the first place

Pornwolf · 10-04-2002, 06:44 PM

Sounds like a good idea if IP is recorded and matched.

Brown Bear · 10-04-2002, 06:44 PM

Like this:

http://www.steffiecam.com/jerks.htm

EscortBiz · 10-04-2002, 06:45 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Marcus

then no one will sign up in the first place

Not true at all!

It's when the boner goes away that they get the chargeback and refund idea!

Theo · 10-04-2002, 06:45 PM

you tell them when they try to chargeback,there's a dispute period

EscortBiz · 10-04-2002, 06:47 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Brown Bear
Like this:

http://www.steffiecam.com/jerks.htm

Yes but a central site, I might even be able to get a line to report it to the credit bureaus!!!

Amputate Your Head · 10-04-2002, 06:47 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Brown Bear
Like this:

http://www.steffiecam.com/jerks.htm

I LOVE it.....

FATPad · 10-04-2002, 06:47 PM

Or you could just build a site that doesn't advertise a 3 day trial for a site with 500,000 gangbang pics, load the inside of the site with every lameass asian chick plugin in the world, and rebill them at the rate of $39.99 if they don't cancel their 3 day trial within the first 36 hours.

EscortBiz · 10-04-2002, 06:52 PM

FatPad I come from the 900 number industry people would said they never called when they did, 25% of 900 number calls will end up being chargedback in the adult industry.

After the recorder was implemented things changed, people knew their voice is on file people paid was no jokes!

You are right if you are a shit site thats a different story but come on we all know so many just chargeback after jerking off.

If it can be done legal wise I will have that site up within 30 days

some_idiot · 10-04-2002, 06:53 PM

U.S.A. ... same as publishing Johns, Escort... should be
old schoold for you. Watch your back in Canada, you
need the transaction info to pull this off on the right side
of slander.

FATPad · 10-04-2002, 06:56 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by EscortBiz

You are right if you are a shit site thats a different story but come on we all know so many just chargeback after jerking off.

Ever been in a lot of the different big paysites? They're shit.

Sunshine McGillicutty · 10-04-2002, 06:58 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by some_idiot
U.S.A. ... same as publishing Johns, Escort... should be
old schoold for you. Watch your back in Canada, you
need the transaction info to pull this off on the right side
of slander.

Nah. You just create a fake but realistic looking "jerk list" and scare the shit out of them preemptively by putting a little "For people considering charging back" link to it in your members area

The Machine · 10-04-2002, 06:58 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by EscortBiz

Not true at all!

It's when the boner goes away that they get the chargeback and refund idea!

also: when they download all the videos from the member area - they are ready to charge back. this has to be addressed too.

Scootermuze · 10-04-2002, 07:02 PM

If you have logs of the people that downloaded stuff as a member, then did a chargeback, that's credit card fraud. Press charges against some of these cheep fucks and it might make a difference.

mistressofnite · 10-04-2002, 07:10 PM

Thing is, I think some of these cc's are used in a fraudulent manner, eg some of these cc # traders in chat rooms. So, you'd be risking putting up innocent people's sensitive information and this is why I stopped doing this, I had this idea some years back too. But, in some instances these cc's charbebacks were legit. And, then, Ibill stopped allowing me to see my customer's IP, home addy, and etc, so I couldn't really do it anyway. But, the scaring idea mentioned above is a good idea.

Pornwolf · 10-04-2002, 07:11 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Sunshine McGillicutty

Nah. You just create a fake but realistic looking "jerk list" and scare the shit out of them preemptively by putting a little "For people considering charging back" link to it in your members area

That sounds good.

Wenchy · 10-04-2002, 07:26 PM

Okay, let's look at this. If someone walks into a store and commits the act of shoplifting and gets caught doing it, that store is most certainly allowed to post all the thief's information in several locations where store employees can see it. In the case of one local store, they post it where other customers can see it! Why shouldn't paysite owners/online merchants be allowed to do essentially the same thing?!?

I've said it before and I'll say it again... all this chargeback shiznit is nothing more than internet shoplifting which is being aided and abetted by the CC companies. As business owners, there HAS to be some avenue by which adult website owners can protect themselves!

The reality is that the CC companies don't care about the merchants... they're more concerned with bending over backwards to keep the CC holders happy, even if it means allowing someone to blatantly take whatever services or products the merchant is offering, use them until their wives catch on, and then screw the merchant out of their money. That's as ridiculous as going to McDonald's, ordering and eating a burger, and then saying, "I ate that and it tasted good, but my wife found out I blew my diet by eating it so I want my money back." I'd laugh if it weren't so sad.

Just my

... your mileage may vary.

EscortBiz · 10-04-2002, 08:08 PM

Trust me a site like that will help alot

steffie · 10-04-2002, 08:10 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Brown Bear
Like this:

http://www.steffiecam.com/jerks.htm

hey your surfing my site???

kewl!!

applied for my bj yet? LOL

ClevelandSlim · 10-04-2002, 08:28 PM

Techie Media · 10-04-2002, 08:40 PM

EscortBiz, I like the Idea, and am very interested in the legal side of it all. If it is all (kosher) in a legal sense, We would be willing to do our part to help and provide The hosting free for the site...

EscortBiz · 10-04-2002, 08:56 PM

Thanks Lightning as soon as I get a response from my attorney I will let you know the plan I have something very intresting in mind.

And it's not just the adult industry that is having problems with chargebacks

Jayson · 10-04-2002, 09:03 PM

Globill have pretty strong terms about sending you and invoice and handing it to a debt collector.

So lets set up an Adult Industry debt collection company - do it legitimatley so you can get stuff on their credit file - and go after the fucks for the membership and all the costs.

The credit card companies suck with allowing chargebacks. If a CVV2 code was used they should be cancelling the card at the same time as allowing the chargeback as obviously someone has stolen the credit card for them to have that number and for the cardholder not to have made the transaction.

Swap · 10-04-2002, 09:33 PM

Better idea - and one for the media...

Show how easy it easy to chargeback - let it be featured on TV shows like "60 minutes". Give all the info to the media regarding the stuff VISA/MC is doing now, and how its THEIR (VISA/MC) non-secure old fashion system, which makes its possible for EVERYBODY to chargeback EVERYTHING.... show them the stats regarding internet fraud http://www.fraud.org/internet/2001stats.htm :

Online Auctions 70%
General Merchandise Sales 9%
Nigerian Money Offers 9%
Computer Equipment/Soft. 2%
Internet Access Services 2%
Information Adult Services 2%
Work-At-Home 2%
Advance Fee Loans 1%
Credit Card Offers .5%
Business Opportunities/Franchises .5%

Yes - Adult services only count for 2% of ALL internet fraud! Its just that people buy adult services with their credit card - not by doing money orders or sending foodstamps!

Ex. look at the payment methods used at online auction fraud:

Money Order 34%
Credit Card 27%
Check 18%
Debit Card 6%
Bank Debit 5%
Cashier's Check 4%
Cash 4%
Wire 2%

27% of ALL fraud on online auction sites like ebay is done with credit cards. And since online auction is 70% of all fraud vs. 2% adult services fraud, then look at the numbers:

70% (online auction fraud) * 27% (credit card fraud) = 18.9% of all fraud on the internet is done with credit cards on online auctions!! Even if all the fraud from adult services was from credit cards, then it would still only be 2% of the total fraud on the net!
That makes online auction credit card fraud 900% more than adult service fraud!

Ofcourse using the numbers on fraud.org is not the whole story, but I will bet that someone at the CC companies thinks to much of themself... Yeah their product could replace cash someday, but they will need to push new techology (like smartcards) to do this... The real problem is not the merchant (he only does what VISA allows anyway), but an out-of-date product called "credit cards" which have nothing to do on the internet as way of payment, if they want to make it internet shopping safe and secure (credit cards are very unsecure - can be copied in less than 1 second, if you go and use it at some night club in Taiwan...).

Credit Card companies should be glad, that we would live with/accept 2.5% chargebacks, by using their non-secure product. The only way they can make internet shopping secure is by replacing their own non-secure systems - not by making new terms with lower chargeback rates etc. This will just hurt their profits in the long run, and make room for other billing options. This market is a supply and demand, and if VISA/MC will not take internet transactions, then there will be a DEMAND for other ways to pay (yeah - I know it will take sometime, but like the VHS video adult industry can make (VHS boom in the 80s because of vhs tapes with porn) and break (VHS downhill in the 90s because of the Internet - powered by Porn).

Well, just a word of advice before you call "60 minutes" - better not tell that you are selling porn and you want to complain about VISA/MC... Just show them how easy it is to make fraud on online auctions - they are the biggest nest for fraud anyway!

EscortBiz · 10-04-2002, 09:36 PM

Swap thats is some great info, thanks!

SykkBoy · 10-04-2002, 09:41 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jayson
Globill have pretty strong terms about sending you and invoice and handing it to a debt collector.

So lets set up an Adult Industry debt collection company - do it legitimatley so you can get stuff on their credit file - and go after the fucks for the membership and all the costs.

The credit card companies suck with allowing chargebacks. If a CVV2 code was used they should be cancelling the card at the same time as allowing the chargeback as obviously someone has stolen the credit card for them to have that number and for the cardholder not to have made the transaction.

Perhaps even mediation....I'd hate to see a surfer with a legit chargeback complaint get put on this list. Who will screen the paysites submitting the information? What if I'm pissed off at a webmaster and put his information on the site? While I see the argument for a system like this, I can see several ways it could wind up being abused.

Swap · 10-04-2002, 09:42 PM

Why keep credit cards dumb? (when there are smartcards)

http://www.guardian.co.uk/Archive/Ar...169230,00.html

49thParallel · 10-04-2002, 09:46 PM

Hmmm...here's a solution...how about stopping misleading the consumer with trick trial periods and other boiler room techniques...Yep, I've got to agree with some others in this thread...a good portion of chargebacks are most likely justified...

Plus, in what other business can a bunch of uneducated pee wees(based on the grammar and spelling of many of the members of this board) sit in their bedrooms on their computers and make the kind of money that is possible in this industry. Suck it up... It's the price of doing business.

Pornwolf · 10-04-2002, 09:48 PM

That was some great info swap. I never knew all of that!

UnseenWorld · 10-04-2002, 09:54 PM

You might find that the credit card companies will drop you for putting up your little rogue's gallery.

UnseenWorld · 10-04-2002, 09:56 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by 49thParallel
Hmmm...here's a solution...how about stopping misleading the consumer with trick trial periods and other boiler room techniques...Yep, I've got to agree with some others in this thread...a good portion of chargebacks are most likely justified...

Plus, in what other business can a bunch of uneducated pee wees(based on the grammar and spelling of many of the members of this board) sit in their bedrooms on their computers and make the kind of money that is possible in this industry. Suck it up... It's the price of doing business.

As I've said many times before, somehow the idea of putting up a site that someone either loves enough to stick with or feels was fair enough to him even if he decides to leave that he doesn't charge back is hardly ever put forth.

playa · 10-04-2002, 10:03 PM

holy shit the Nigerian money fraud is at 9%

-=HUNGRYMAN=- · 10-04-2002, 10:13 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Amputate Your Head

I LOVE it.....

I second that !!

XXXPaysiteDesign · 10-04-2002, 10:13 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by -=HUNGRYMAN=-

I second that !!

And I third it. Count me in.

Carrie · 10-04-2002, 10:40 PM

"How about making a site that doesn't...."

Did you guys look at Steffie's page? Did you see the # of months those bastards stayed before charging back?
Tell me they didn't like what they found in the member's area. Tell me their chargebacks are valid.
After 4+ months?!?

Swap · 10-04-2002, 10:44 PM

Trick trials you say? Hmmmm.... I guess the "check box" on the signup page with "reccuring" warning and the e-mail notice new members get right after they signup (the notice is telling them that the trial will recurre, and it also tells them where they can cancel the membership etc.) is part of the trick?

If surfers can find their credit card number at enter it, then I also guess they have read the join page or atleast the e-mail they receive just seconds after they have signed up (plus most surfers are getting smart - they know that most adult sites use recurring billing... its just that 1-2.5% of surfers who either commits fraud or simply can not understand what they signed up for... 97.5-99% of all other surfers UNDERSTANDS the concept behind paysites and they can READ... in most situations we would let the majority deceied what works - I think that 97.5-99% is pretty good compare with the non-secure billing options we use today)

Fraud on adult sites have never been lower today - processors scrubbing, paysite owners getting better running their business, and more smart surfers (smart as in - they know it will recurre) have made fraud go down. The only thing which creats more fraud is VISA/MC, but lowering the max chargeback ratio every 2-3 years, and thus making everybody above the max ratio for 3-6 months.:

Chargeback ratio 1996 = 5%
Chargeback ratio 1999 = 2.5%
Chargeback ratio 2002 = 1%

Each time fraud have lowered because we as an industry have worked hard on making it happen (not because of VISA/MC), however the new rules are just wrong. They do not make sense - fraud is lower than before but still they want it to get even lower. Sorry VISA/MC we can not make it become 0%, because you use an old out-of-date system - if you want it to be lower you must replace your old system with smartcards!

TheFLY · 10-04-2002, 11:00 PM

I think it's a waste of time... the surfer really cares? -- he will of course claim that somebody stole his CC # -- that's theoretically the entire point of charging back in the first place...

sumphatpimp · 10-04-2002, 11:08 PM

Whats the big deal?

Just publish the name of the offending chargeback jerk off and what he downloaded (with IP adderss) in the LOCAL NEWSPAPER where he lives!

I am sure he will like being the community pervert.

His firends will really luv and respect him for that, he'll be a real "wacher" of the community, someone you would want your kids with.

After all this I am sure he will be a satisfied customer and come back for more.

Sly_RJ · 10-04-2002, 11:14 PM

Your lawyer will never let this fly. Your name and stolen item posted at the local grocery store is one thing, but your name and bought porn goods spread across the Internet. Are you people fucking crazy? Are you trying to steer surfers back to the adult book store again? Shit...

I like the initiative, but this is a bad idea.

Sly_RJ · 10-04-2002, 11:16 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by sumphatpimp
Whats the big deal?

Just publish the name of the offending chargeback jerk off and what he downloaded (with IP adderss) in the LOCAL NEWSPAPER where he lives!

I am sure he will like being the community pervert.

His firends will really luv and respect him for that, he'll be a real "wacher" of the community, someone you would want your kids with.

After all this I am sure he will be a satisfied customer and come back for more.

I have many friends who already bitch about adult companies who charged them incorrectly, they won't buy porn again. They don't trust online adult companies. Now you want to do this shit? Yeh, I'm sure that will really build trust.

XXXPaysiteDesign · 10-04-2002, 11:25 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Sly_RJ
Your lawyer will never let this fly. Your name and stolen item posted at the local grocery store is one thing, but your name and bought porn goods spread across the Internet. Are you people fucking crazy? Are you trying to steer surfers back to the adult book store again? Shit...

I like the initiative, but this is a bad idea.

What good is a surfer that is going to charge back? They are useless.

Shoplifter · 10-04-2002, 11:28 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by [Labret]
Im sure alot of chargebacks are valid.

As if none of you have taken it in the ass from an adult site.

Absolutely.

I am still going through one of the password lists that was posted here the other day and 90% of the sites are bs.

Face it, the free money is finished.

Techie Media · 10-04-2002, 11:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Sly_RJ
Your lawyer will never let this fly. Your name and stolen item posted at the local grocery store is one thing, but your name and bought porn goods spread across the Internet. Are you people fucking crazy? Are you trying to steer surfers back to the adult book store again? Shit...

I like the initiative, but this is a bad idea.

This is a very good point to consider???.....well it's yet another twist in the whole plan to be considered??

Sly_RJ · 10-04-2002, 11:34 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by XXXPaysiteDesign

What good is a surfer that is going to charge back? They are useless.

Yeh, I'm real comfortable knowing that some adult webfuck has the power to post my name and fetish for goat sex all over the Internet. Fuck it. I'll just buy my goat porn from pr0.

Pretty funny that some of you don't think some chargebacks are legitimate. I'm talking about THOSE. Adult webfucks screwing someone over because they lied in their marketing, yay. Go online porn!

Socks · 10-04-2002, 11:34 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by mistressofnite
Thing is, I think some of these cc's are used in a fraudulent manner, eg some of these cc # traders in chat rooms. So, you'd be risking putting up innocent people's sensitive information and this is why I stopped doing this, I had this idea some years back too. But, in some instances these cc's charbebacks were legit. And, then, Ibill stopped allowing me to see my customer's IP, home addy, and etc, so I couldn't really do it anyway. But, the scaring idea mentioned above is a good idea.

At the same time, the person who had their credit card stolen may really enjoy getting the IP of the person who stole their card. I know I've had mine stolen and I tried to get the IP.. It would be a heaven send for some.

Paul Markham · 10-04-2002, 11:54 PM

The Credit Card companies could stop fraud tomorrow if they wanted to, the truth is they earn out of it and have no incentive to stop it.

When purchasing with my Czech Charge cards, I have to punch in my PIN number on a direct link to the CC company, it's an extension of the swipe machine. Therefore only I can use my Czech Credit cards.

When my wallet was stolen from the studio, the only cards that were charged were the US and UK ones.

This system was introduced by the Czech banks to ensure no CC fraud. It works, fraud levels were ridiculous before this system.

It does not have to be your PIN, but a 2-4 digit code that verifies you are the user of the card. Then a chargeback is only allowed within a certain period or receiving the product. A lot of the auction charge backs are due to the goods not being as advertised.

The problem is that only 1/3 of fraudulent charges are reported. The CC company earns every time a fraudulent charge is made, they earn again when it is charged back. Therefore no incentive to reduce it. What ever the industry, auctions to adult.

Can you imagine the CEO facing his annual shareholders meeting and saying ?I have reduced fraud to 10% of it's previous level and by doing so has reduced our profits by 5%?. *These figures are examples*

kocur26 · 10-05-2002, 12:32 AM

I looked at doing something very similar to this about two years ago when we had merchant account problems. At the time I couldn't find anyone else interested. I think it's a great fucking idea and it would benefit all of us.

Some chargebacks are legit. An overwhelming majority are bullshit. Don't believe me? Try handling your customer service phone calls for a day. I do this every month. You'd be amazed at the people who call. More times than I can count I've had people tell me that they want a full refund or they will charge it back even though they ADMIT to buying a membership. Sad thing is there is nothing that you can do about it.

We even tried suing fraudulent chargebacks. It works a good chunk of the time. Just because the bank grants the charge back does not discharge the debt owed. We sued many people and got default judgements if they did not hire a local attorney and fight it. But then you still have to collect. In the end we had to stop because it was costing far more money than we could collect on. We would recieve a default judgement for the actual charge, plus $200 or so in damages and attorney costs. We were only successful in collecting 10% of the time. It's nice to know though that those people will probably never try a bullshit chargeback again.

It's time the industry stood up for itself. VISA has no interest in stopping fraudulent chargebacks. They are making cash off of them so there is no incentive for smart cards, etc. They collect their processing fee, keep their customer happy by refunding them money then stick us with a $25 fee or worse.

10-04-2002, 06:38 PM	#1
EscortBiz Fuck Checks, CASH only! Join Date: May 2002 Location: New York City Posts: 19,422	Time to fight back, here is how! Lets think for a minute what the real problem is? The fact is Visa does not need our 500 bucks and the third party processors don?t need the $250. But it?s the surfer that is creating a big fucking mess. The surfer that decided to charge-back because he knows it?s easy, the surfer who requests refunds after jerking off. Time to stop the problem at its roots. Time to build a site with the names and addresses of the people who chargedback and upload sample images of what they viewed! Watch and see these cock sucking surfing thieves stop bitiching for refunds when they really got their balls off. This is a true way to stop this fuckin chargeback bullshit! The chargebacks is what?s creating the problem not the third parties and visa, Visa is looking to protect themselves and the third parties are forced to live up to Visa?s regulations. I will be looking into the legality of having a site like this I strongly believe those fuckers will stop charging back. Reminds me of the 900 number days when people said ?I never called? FUCKIN LIARS but it all stopped when AmericanTelNet implemented the first 60 seconds of a call being recorded these fuckers PAID THE FUCK UP FAST! What do you guys think? __________________ Spanking, Medical Fetish, Sleeping, Strap-on Anal Lesbians, Girls Fucking Guys, Handjob site REAL HOT, Shemales, Anal and Ass Licking sites 100% Real EXCLUSIVE with amazing retention, ccbill payouts, lots of content FREE FTP HOSTING Promote the largest and oldest member paid escort site, Converts 10 times better then any dating site, CCBill payouts ICQ# 158802076

10-04-2002, 06:44 PM	#5
Pornwolf Drunk and Unruly Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Hollywood Posts: 22,712	Sounds like a good idea if IP is recorded and matched. __________________ I've trusted my sites to them for over a decade... Webair, bitches.

10-04-2002, 06:44 PM	#6
Brown Bear Confirmed User Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 4,982	Like this: http://www.steffiecam.com/jerks.htm __________________ Surrender all your independent thinking and Click Here for re-programming.

10-04-2002, 06:47 PM	#11
FATPad Confirmed User Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 6,693	Or you could just build a site that doesn't advertise a 3 day trial for a site with 500,000 gangbang pics, load the inside of the site with every lameass asian chick plugin in the world, and rebill them at the rate of $39.99 if they don't cancel their 3 day trial within the first 36 hours. __________________ <a href="http://www.adultcontent.co.uk">Adult Content UK - Great British Content</a>

10-04-2002, 06:52 PM	#12
EscortBiz Fuck Checks, CASH only! Join Date: May 2002 Location: New York City Posts: 19,422	FatPad I come from the 900 number industry people would said they never called when they did, 25% of 900 number calls will end up being chargedback in the adult industry. After the recorder was implemented things changed, people knew their voice is on file people paid was no jokes! You are right if you are a shit site thats a different story but come on we all know so many just chargeback after jerking off. If it can be done legal wise I will have that site up within 30 days __________________ Spanking, Medical Fetish, Sleeping, Strap-on Anal Lesbians, Girls Fucking Guys, Handjob site REAL HOT, Shemales, Anal and Ass Licking sites 100% Real EXCLUSIVE with amazing retention, ccbill payouts, lots of content FREE FTP HOSTING Promote the largest and oldest member paid escort site, Converts 10 times better then any dating site, CCBill payouts ICQ# 158802076

10-04-2002, 06:40 PM	#2
Theo HAL 9000 Industry Role: Join Date: May 2001 Posts: 34,515	i like it

10-04-2002, 06:41 PM	#3
[Labret] Registered User Industry Role: Join Date: May 2001 Location: Са́нкт-Петербу́рг Posts: 10,945	Im sure alot of chargebacks are valid. As if none of you have taken it in the ass from an adult site.

10-04-2002, 06:45 PM	#8
Theo HAL 9000 Industry Role: Join Date: May 2001 Posts: 34,515	you tell them when they try to chargeback,there's a dispute period

10-04-2002, 06:53 PM	#13
some_idiot Confirmed User Join Date: May 2002 Location: Doesn't matter, I'm not buying you another pint! Posts: 1,511	U.S.A. ... same as publishing Johns, Escort... should be old schoold for you. Watch your back in Canada, you need the transaction info to pull this off on the right side of slander.

10-04-2002, 07:02 PM	#17
Scootermuze Confirmed User Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 4,513	If you have logs of the people that downloaded stuff as a member, then did a chargeback, that's credit card fraud. Press charges against some of these cheep fucks and it might make a difference.

10-04-2002, 07:10 PM	#18
mistressofnite Registered User Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 64	Thing is, I think some of these cc's are used in a fraudulent manner, eg some of these cc # traders in chat rooms. So, you'd be risking putting up innocent people's sensitive information and this is why I stopped doing this, I had this idea some years back too. But, in some instances these cc's charbebacks were legit. And, then, Ibill stopped allowing me to see my customer's IP, home addy, and etc, so I couldn't really do it anyway. But, the scaring idea mentioned above is a good idea.

10-04-2002, 07:26 PM	#20
Wenchy Confirmed User Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Mile High City Posts: 231	Okay, let's look at this. If someone walks into a store and commits the act of shoplifting and gets caught doing it, that store is most certainly allowed to post all the thief's information in several locations where store employees can see it. In the case of one local store, they post it where other customers can see it! Why shouldn't paysite owners/online merchants be allowed to do essentially the same thing?!? I've said it before and I'll say it again... all this chargeback shiznit is nothing more than internet shoplifting which is being aided and abetted by the CC companies. As business owners, there HAS to be some avenue by which adult website owners can protect themselves! The reality is that the CC companies don't care about the merchants... they're more concerned with bending over backwards to keep the CC holders happy, even if it means allowing someone to blatantly take whatever services or products the merchant is offering, use them until their wives catch on, and then screw the merchant out of their money. That's as ridiculous as going to McDonald's, ordering and eating a burger, and then saying, "I ate that and it tasted good, but my wife found out I blew my diet by eating it so I want my money back." I'd laugh if it weren't so sad. Just my ... your mileage may vary. __________________ <br><a href="http://refer.ccbill.com/cgi-bin/clicks.cgi?CA=920346-0000&PA=581865&HTML=http://www.1000facials.com/webmasters/" target="_blank"><b>Looking for Amateur Reality Sites?<br><img src="http://banner.1000facials.com/1000facials_120x60_01.gif"><br>One Man... One Camera... One Mission<br></b></a>

10-04-2002, 08:08 PM	#21
EscortBiz Fuck Checks, CASH only! Join Date: May 2002 Location: New York City Posts: 19,422	Trust me a site like that will help alot __________________ Spanking, Medical Fetish, Sleeping, Strap-on Anal Lesbians, Girls Fucking Guys, Handjob site REAL HOT, Shemales, Anal and Ass Licking sites 100% Real EXCLUSIVE with amazing retention, ccbill payouts, lots of content FREE FTP HOSTING Promote the largest and oldest member paid escort site, Converts 10 times better then any dating site, CCBill payouts ICQ# 158802076

10-04-2002, 08:28 PM	#23
ClevelandSlim Confirmed User Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Atlanta Posts: 199	<center><img src="http://www.thickstrippers.com/411/thewaronterror.jpg"></center> __________________ If you have ANY custom content needs, hit me up on icq # 118463907 and we can take care of you.

10-04-2002, 08:40 PM	#24
Techie Media Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2001 Posts: 3,092	EscortBiz, I like the Idea, and am very interested in the legal side of it all. If it is all (kosher) in a legal sense, We would be willing to do our part to help and provide The hosting free for the site... __________________ sales [AT] techiemedia.com

10-04-2002, 08:56 PM	#25
EscortBiz Fuck Checks, CASH only! Join Date: May 2002 Location: New York City Posts: 19,422	Thanks Lightning as soon as I get a response from my attorney I will let you know the plan I have something very intresting in mind. And it's not just the adult industry that is having problems with chargebacks __________________ Spanking, Medical Fetish, Sleeping, Strap-on Anal Lesbians, Girls Fucking Guys, Handjob site REAL HOT, Shemales, Anal and Ass Licking sites 100% Real EXCLUSIVE with amazing retention, ccbill payouts, lots of content FREE FTP HOSTING Promote the largest and oldest member paid escort site, Converts 10 times better then any dating site, CCBill payouts ICQ# 158802076

10-04-2002, 09:03 PM	#26
Jayson Confirmed User Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: CZ Posts: 554	Globill have pretty strong terms about sending you and invoice and handing it to a debt collector. So lets set up an Adult Industry debt collection company - do it legitimatley so you can get stuff on their credit file - and go after the fucks for the membership and all the costs. The credit card companies suck with allowing chargebacks. If a CVV2 code was used they should be cancelling the card at the same time as allowing the chargeback as obviously someone has stolen the credit card for them to have that number and for the cardholder not to have made the transaction. __________________ Sapphic Cash - We Do It Right

10-04-2002, 09:33 PM	#27
Swap Registered User Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 25	Better idea - and one for the media... Show how easy it easy to chargeback - let it be featured on TV shows like "60 minutes". Give all the info to the media regarding the stuff VISA/MC is doing now, and how its THEIR (VISA/MC) non-secure old fashion system, which makes its possible for EVERYBODY to chargeback EVERYTHING.... show them the stats regarding internet fraud http://www.fraud.org/internet/2001stats.htm : Online Auctions 70% General Merchandise Sales 9% Nigerian Money Offers 9% Computer Equipment/Soft. 2% Internet Access Services 2% Information Adult Services 2% Work-At-Home 2% Advance Fee Loans 1% Credit Card Offers .5% Business Opportunities/Franchises .5% Yes - Adult services only count for 2% of ALL internet fraud! Its just that people buy adult services with their credit card - not by doing money orders or sending foodstamps! Ex. look at the payment methods used at online auction fraud: Money Order 34% Credit Card 27% Check 18% Debit Card 6% Bank Debit 5% Cashier's Check 4% Cash 4% Wire 2% 27% of ALL fraud on online auction sites like ebay is done with credit cards. And since online auction is 70% of all fraud vs. 2% adult services fraud, then look at the numbers: 70% (online auction fraud) * 27% (credit card fraud) = 18.9% of all fraud on the internet is done with credit cards on online auctions!! Even if all the fraud from adult services was from credit cards, then it would still only be 2% of the total fraud on the net! That makes online auction credit card fraud 900% more than adult service fraud! Ofcourse using the numbers on fraud.org is not the whole story, but I will bet that someone at the CC companies thinks to much of themself... Yeah their product could replace cash someday, but they will need to push new techology (like smartcards) to do this... The real problem is not the merchant (he only does what VISA allows anyway), but an out-of-date product called "credit cards" which have nothing to do on the internet as way of payment, if they want to make it internet shopping safe and secure (credit cards are very unsecure - can be copied in less than 1 second, if you go and use it at some night club in Taiwan...). Credit Card companies should be glad, that we would live with/accept 2.5% chargebacks, by using their non-secure product. The only way they can make internet shopping secure is by replacing their own non-secure systems - not by making new terms with lower chargeback rates etc. This will just hurt their profits in the long run, and make room for other billing options. This market is a supply and demand, and if VISA/MC will not take internet transactions, then there will be a DEMAND for other ways to pay (yeah - I know it will take sometime, but like the VHS video adult industry can make (VHS boom in the 80s because of vhs tapes with porn) and break (VHS downhill in the 90s because of the Internet - powered by Porn). Well, just a word of advice before you call "60 minutes" - better not tell that you are selling porn and you want to complain about VISA/MC... Just show them how easy it is to make fraud on online auctions - they are the biggest nest for fraud anyway!

10-04-2002, 09:36 PM	#28
EscortBiz Fuck Checks, CASH only! Join Date: May 2002 Location: New York City Posts: 19,422	Swap thats is some great info, thanks! __________________ Spanking, Medical Fetish, Sleeping, Strap-on Anal Lesbians, Girls Fucking Guys, Handjob site REAL HOT, Shemales, Anal and Ass Licking sites 100% Real EXCLUSIVE with amazing retention, ccbill payouts, lots of content FREE FTP HOSTING Promote the largest and oldest member paid escort site, Converts 10 times better then any dating site, CCBill payouts ICQ# 158802076

10-04-2002, 09:42 PM	#30
Swap Registered User Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 25	Why keep credit cards dumb? (when there are smartcards) http://www.guardian.co.uk/Archive/Ar...169230,00.html

10-04-2002, 09:46 PM	#31
49thParallel So Fucking Banned Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 1,197	Hmmm...here's a solution...how about stopping misleading the consumer with trick trial periods and other boiler room techniques...Yep, I've got to agree with some others in this thread...a good portion of chargebacks are most likely justified... Plus, in what other business can a bunch of uneducated pee wees(based on the grammar and spelling of many of the members of this board) sit in their bedrooms on their computers and make the kind of money that is possible in this industry. Suck it up... It's the price of doing business. Last edited by 49thParallel; 10-04-2002 at 09:48 PM..

10-04-2002, 09:48 PM	#32
Pornwolf Drunk and Unruly Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Hollywood Posts: 22,712	That was some great info swap. I never knew all of that! __________________ I've trusted my sites to them for over a decade... Webair, bitches.

10-04-2002, 09:54 PM	#33
UnseenWorld Confirmed User Join Date: May 2001 Location: Portland, OR, USA Posts: 5,279	You might find that the credit card companies will drop you for putting up your little rogue's gallery. __________________ SIG TOO BIG! Maximum 120x60 button and no more than 3 text lines of DEFAULT SIZE and COLOR. Unless your sig is for a GFY top banner sponsor, then you may use a 624x80 instead of a 120x60.

10-04-2002, 10:03 PM	#35
playa Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: atlanta, GA Posts: 6,432	holy shit the Nigerian money fraud is at 9%

10-04-2002, 10:40 PM	#38
Carrie Confirmed User Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Virgin - nee Posts: 3,162	"How about making a site that doesn't...." Did you guys look at Steffie's page? Did you see the # of months those bastards stayed before charging back? Tell me they didn't like what they found in the member's area. Tell me their chargebacks are valid. After 4+ months?!?

10-04-2002, 10:44 PM	#39
Swap Registered User Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 25	Trick trials you say? Hmmmm.... I guess the "check box" on the signup page with "reccuring" warning and the e-mail notice new members get right after they signup (the notice is telling them that the trial will recurre, and it also tells them where they can cancel the membership etc.) is part of the trick? If surfers can find their credit card number at enter it, then I also guess they have read the join page or atleast the e-mail they receive just seconds after they have signed up (plus most surfers are getting smart - they know that most adult sites use recurring billing... its just that 1-2.5% of surfers who either commits fraud or simply can not understand what they signed up for... 97.5-99% of all other surfers UNDERSTANDS the concept behind paysites and they can READ... in most situations we would let the majority deceied what works - I think that 97.5-99% is pretty good compare with the non-secure billing options we use today) Fraud on adult sites have never been lower today - processors scrubbing, paysite owners getting better running their business, and more smart surfers (smart as in - they know it will recurre) have made fraud go down. The only thing which creats more fraud is VISA/MC, but lowering the max chargeback ratio every 2-3 years, and thus making everybody above the max ratio for 3-6 months.: Chargeback ratio 1996 = 5% Chargeback ratio 1999 = 2.5% Chargeback ratio 2002 = 1% Each time fraud have lowered because we as an industry have worked hard on making it happen (not because of VISA/MC), however the new rules are just wrong. They do not make sense - fraud is lower than before but still they want it to get even lower. Sorry VISA/MC we can not make it become 0%, because you use an old out-of-date system - if you want it to be lower you must replace your old system with smartcards! Last edited by Swap; 10-04-2002 at 10:55 PM..

10-04-2002, 11:00 PM	#40
TheFLY So Fucking Banned Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: http://www.thefly.net/ --- Quit your job and live off steady traffic. Posts: 11,856	I think it's a waste of time... the surfer really cares? -- he will of course claim that somebody stole his CC # -- that's theoretically the entire point of charging back in the first place...

10-04-2002, 11:08 PM	#41
sumphatpimp Confirmed User Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 5,235	Whats the big deal? Just publish the name of the offending chargeback jerk off and what he downloaded (with IP adderss) in the LOCAL NEWSPAPER where he lives! I am sure he will like being the community pervert. His firends will really luv and respect him for that, he'll be a real "wacher" of the community, someone you would want your kids with. After all this I am sure he will be a satisfied customer and come back for more.

10-04-2002, 11:14 PM	#42
Sly_RJ Live Hard - Die Hard Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Ready to leave... Posts: 17,042	Your lawyer will never let this fly. Your name and stolen item posted at the local grocery store is one thing, but your name and bought porn goods spread across the Internet. Are you people fucking crazy? Are you trying to steer surfers back to the adult book store again? Shit... I like the initiative, but this is a bad idea.

10-04-2002, 11:54 PM	#49
Paul Markham Too old to care Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: On the sofa, watching TV or doing my jigsaws. Posts: 52,943	The Credit Card companies could stop fraud tomorrow if they wanted to, the truth is they earn out of it and have no incentive to stop it. When purchasing with my Czech Charge cards, I have to punch in my PIN number on a direct link to the CC company, it's an extension of the swipe machine. Therefore only I can use my Czech Credit cards. When my wallet was stolen from the studio, the only cards that were charged were the US and UK ones. This system was introduced by the Czech banks to ensure no CC fraud. It works, fraud levels were ridiculous before this system. It does not have to be your PIN, but a 2-4 digit code that verifies you are the user of the card. Then a chargeback is only allowed within a certain period or receiving the product. A lot of the auction charge backs are due to the goods not being as advertised. The problem is that only 1/3 of fraudulent charges are reported. The CC company earns every time a fraudulent charge is made, they earn again when it is charged back. Therefore no incentive to reduce it. What ever the industry, auctions to adult. Can you imagine the CEO facing his annual shareholders meeting and saying ?I have reduced fraud to 10% of it's previous level and by doing so has reduced our profits by 5%?. These figures are examples __________________ Blowout deal. 880 videos, 2,400 image sets, plus many RAW videos. $500. PM me for a deal. Skype Paulmarkham70

10-05-2002, 12:32 AM	#50
kocur26 Confirmed User Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 191	I looked at doing something very similar to this about two years ago when we had merchant account problems. At the time I couldn't find anyone else interested. I think it's a great fucking idea and it would benefit all of us. Some chargebacks are legit. An overwhelming majority are bullshit. Don't believe me? Try handling your customer service phone calls for a day. I do this every month. You'd be amazed at the people who call. More times than I can count I've had people tell me that they want a full refund or they will charge it back even though they ADMIT to buying a membership. Sad thing is there is nothing that you can do about it. We even tried suing fraudulent chargebacks. It works a good chunk of the time. Just because the bank grants the charge back does not discharge the debt owed. We sued many people and got default judgements if they did not hire a local attorney and fight it. But then you still have to collect. In the end we had to stop because it was costing far more money than we could collect on. We would recieve a default judgement for the actual charge, plus $200 or so in damages and attorney costs. We were only successful in collecting 10% of the time. It's nice to know though that those people will probably never try a bullshit chargeback again. It's time the industry stood up for itself. VISA has no interest in stopping fraudulent chargebacks. They are making cash off of them so there is no incentive for smart cards, etc. They collect their processing fee, keep their customer happy by refunding them money then stick us with a $25 fee or worse.