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Swap · 10-04-2002, 09:33 PM

Better idea - and one for the media...

Show how easy it easy to chargeback - let it be featured on TV shows like "60 minutes". Give all the info to the media regarding the stuff VISA/MC is doing now, and how its THEIR (VISA/MC) non-secure old fashion system, which makes its possible for EVERYBODY to chargeback EVERYTHING.... show them the stats regarding internet fraud http://www.fraud.org/internet/2001stats.htm :

Online Auctions 70%
General Merchandise Sales 9%
Nigerian Money Offers 9%
Computer Equipment/Soft. 2%
Internet Access Services 2%
Information Adult Services 2%
Work-At-Home 2%
Advance Fee Loans 1%
Credit Card Offers .5%
Business Opportunities/Franchises .5%

Yes - Adult services only count for 2% of ALL internet fraud! Its just that people buy adult services with their credit card - not by doing money orders or sending foodstamps!

Ex. look at the payment methods used at online auction fraud:

Money Order 34%
Credit Card 27%
Check 18%
Debit Card 6%
Bank Debit 5%
Cashier's Check 4%
Cash 4%
Wire 2%

27% of ALL fraud on online auction sites like ebay is done with credit cards. And since online auction is 70% of all fraud vs. 2% adult services fraud, then look at the numbers:

70% (online auction fraud) * 27% (credit card fraud) = 18.9% of all fraud on the internet is done with credit cards on online auctions!! Even if all the fraud from adult services was from credit cards, then it would still only be 2% of the total fraud on the net!
That makes online auction credit card fraud 900% more than adult service fraud!

Ofcourse using the numbers on fraud.org is not the whole story, but I will bet that someone at the CC companies thinks to much of themself... Yeah their product could replace cash someday, but they will need to push new techology (like smartcards) to do this... The real problem is not the merchant (he only does what VISA allows anyway), but an out-of-date product called "credit cards" which have nothing to do on the internet as way of payment, if they want to make it internet shopping safe and secure (credit cards are very unsecure - can be copied in less than 1 second, if you go and use it at some night club in Taiwan...).

Credit Card companies should be glad, that we would live with/accept 2.5% chargebacks, by using their non-secure product. The only way they can make internet shopping secure is by replacing their own non-secure systems - not by making new terms with lower chargeback rates etc. This will just hurt their profits in the long run, and make room for other billing options. This market is a supply and demand, and if VISA/MC will not take internet transactions, then there will be a DEMAND for other ways to pay (yeah - I know it will take sometime, but like the VHS video adult industry can make (VHS boom in the 80s because of vhs tapes with porn) and break (VHS downhill in the 90s because of the Internet - powered by Porn).

Well, just a word of advice before you call "60 minutes" - better not tell that you are selling porn and you want to complain about VISA/MC... Just show them how easy it is to make fraud on online auctions - they are the biggest nest for fraud anyway!

10-04-2002, 09:33 PM
Swap Registered User Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 25	Better idea - and one for the media... Show how easy it easy to chargeback - let it be featured on TV shows like "60 minutes". Give all the info to the media regarding the stuff VISA/MC is doing now, and how its THEIR (VISA/MC) non-secure old fashion system, which makes its possible for EVERYBODY to chargeback EVERYTHING.... show them the stats regarding internet fraud http://www.fraud.org/internet/2001stats.htm : Online Auctions 70% General Merchandise Sales 9% Nigerian Money Offers 9% Computer Equipment/Soft. 2% Internet Access Services 2% Information Adult Services 2% Work-At-Home 2% Advance Fee Loans 1% Credit Card Offers .5% Business Opportunities/Franchises .5% Yes - Adult services only count for 2% of ALL internet fraud! Its just that people buy adult services with their credit card - not by doing money orders or sending foodstamps! Ex. look at the payment methods used at online auction fraud: Money Order 34% Credit Card 27% Check 18% Debit Card 6% Bank Debit 5% Cashier's Check 4% Cash 4% Wire 2% 27% of ALL fraud on online auction sites like ebay is done with credit cards. And since online auction is 70% of all fraud vs. 2% adult services fraud, then look at the numbers: 70% (online auction fraud) * 27% (credit card fraud) = 18.9% of all fraud on the internet is done with credit cards on online auctions!! Even if all the fraud from adult services was from credit cards, then it would still only be 2% of the total fraud on the net! That makes online auction credit card fraud 900% more than adult service fraud! Ofcourse using the numbers on fraud.org is not the whole story, but I will bet that someone at the CC companies thinks to much of themself... Yeah their product could replace cash someday, but they will need to push new techology (like smartcards) to do this... The real problem is not the merchant (he only does what VISA allows anyway), but an out-of-date product called "credit cards" which have nothing to do on the internet as way of payment, if they want to make it internet shopping safe and secure (credit cards are very unsecure - can be copied in less than 1 second, if you go and use it at some night club in Taiwan...). Credit Card companies should be glad, that we would live with/accept 2.5% chargebacks, by using their non-secure product. The only way they can make internet shopping secure is by replacing their own non-secure systems - not by making new terms with lower chargeback rates etc. This will just hurt their profits in the long run, and make room for other billing options. This market is a supply and demand, and if VISA/MC will not take internet transactions, then there will be a DEMAND for other ways to pay (yeah - I know it will take sometime, but like the VHS video adult industry can make (VHS boom in the 80s because of vhs tapes with porn) and break (VHS downhill in the 90s because of the Internet - powered by Porn). Well, just a word of advice before you call "60 minutes" - better not tell that you are selling porn and you want to complain about VISA/MC... Just show them how easy it is to make fraud on online auctions - they are the biggest nest for fraud anyway!