Real Facts from CCbill - Page 2 - GoFuckYourself.com

[H] · 10-02-2002, 09:18 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by CoolE

Absolutely you will lose the rebills. They aren't your customers they are CCBill's. When the surfer signed up they agreed to let CCBill charge/rebill them, and no one else.

Bingo. So since we agree that those customers are CCBills, why the fuck then are WE now forced to submit application and fee to VISA for THEIR fucking merchant account and THEIR fucking customers? Is it not enough that they take the processing fee from each and every transaction? Now we must be regulated and approved by the almighty fucking Visa Corp. and pay even MORE money to Visa and these 3rd party billers?

Paysite owners are getting fucked. That's all there is to it.

SweetT · 10-02-2002, 09:29 PM

KK knows *way* more about this stuff than I do, but I do remember that MasterCard was never serious about pulling out of adult.

In fact, from what I have been told, they would have a very hard time making any changes that Visa is making because of their ongoing Anti-Trust investigation. The DOJ has alleged that MasterCard simply copies any decisions that Visa makes (which, in reality, was probably true at one time) so if they do anything similar now it is brought up in the Anti-Trust investigation and MasterCard wants that to go away fast.

--T

Kimmykim · 10-02-2002, 09:41 PM

What it all boils down to is the wild wild internet west is now going away. It happened to audio text -- and companies survived -- it happened to telemarketing -- and companies survived, now it's the net's turn to go under the gun.

Personally I consider us lucky at this point -- a couple thousand bucks to start and then a few hundred a year to continue is much better than the alternative.

Alot of this stuff is being put in place because of the Patriot Act, and I'm sure there will be more. Of course we could be in the same shoes as gambling online --

This news from today:

http://www.msnbc.com/news/815789.asp?0dm=C13KT

Mutt · 10-02-2002, 10:29 PM

Canucks,

I've been through this, no Canadian bank will give you an adult Internet merchant account. Trying to get around it isn't a smart thing to do cuz the bank that does give you a merchant account if
you lie to them, or use a merchant account from somebody with a bricks and mortar biz, will shut you down quickly unless you're really small, then you're totally screwed.

You need to set up a US corp. Either Nevada or Delaware are good. It's not hard and it's not that expensive. I wish I still had the company in Nevada who did it for me but it's over two fried hard drives and a move ago. It was in Carson City, Nevada.

Socks · 10-02-2002, 10:47 PM

How far up in the bank system did you get? I know the heads of the Royal Bank and a few biggies at TD Waterhouse, and we're in private banking at CIBC. Maybe they need to be informed of what's happening and how much business they will lose if all the canadian companies have to open up a US company.

I think the adult business needs a new way to process.

Shoplifter · 10-02-2002, 10:57 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by corvett

BVF, Goth,

This morning the message was posted, if you check reports.ccbill.com, you will see a pop-up explaining what is going on and a link to the FAQs.

We will make sure that ALL of our webmasters know about this right away...we didn't have as much time as we would have liked to have had

Where is Ibill in all this? We get a bs second hand announcement on a BBS called GFY and nothing more? The rep who handles Canada wasn't even in today. They had better have been out inventing Plutonium. Honestly it takes my breath away.

SykkBoy · 10-02-2002, 11:01 PM

Hmmm, does this open up a new business opportunity to set up "holding companies" for these overseas companies?

Brown Bear · 10-02-2002, 11:02 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Shoplifter

Where is Ibill in all this? We get a bs second hand announcement on a BBS called GFY and nothing more? The rep who handles Canada wasn't even in today. They had better have been out inventing Plutonium. Honestly it takes my breath away.

IBill is busy perfecting being the most useless company in the adult webmaster community. Why they can't spend some time on the boards talking about these issues is beyond me.

Hey IBill, these are your customers right here! Forget spending $25,000 on a booth at Internexxt, hire someone to answer some fuckin questions!

Glo-Bill was here answering questions today and they're going to gain huge numbers of YOUR clients.

the indigo · 10-02-2002, 11:08 PM

Socks · 10-02-2002, 11:22 PM

Since when did iBill care about losing customers?

CoolE · 10-03-2002, 07:17 AM

Does CCBill (and the other IPSPs) withhold tax when the weekly payment is being sent to a US corporation? They do when it is made to a US individual right?

I'm in Canada, so I'm not up to speed on this.

corvette · 10-03-2002, 07:24 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by CoolE
Does CCBill (and the other IPSPs) withhold tax when the weekly payment is being sent to a US corporation? They do when it is made to a US individual right?

I'm in Canada, so I'm not up to speed on this.

CCBill does not withhold any taxes from the payments that we send out. You as a business are responsible for paying the taxes on your earnings on your own.

PornBroker · 10-03-2002, 08:15 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jayson
The whole Australian question is interesting as currently NO australian bank can process credit cards in a currency other than A$. And if you had to bill in A$ that would be way to confusing and effect sales especially as the prices will look twice as high.

I know of one bank working on multicurrency processing but not sure how far away it is.
Jayson

Jayson,

We have had a merchant account with an Australian bank for over 3 years processing ourselves......
You just set the prices on those websites in US$ for the customer .......then set your "application rate" default at the US$ exchange rate......

The real issue for Australian merchants is fraud prevention...... as far as I know, none of the banks support billing address verification yet......but I am going to run this issue past Netbilling to see if they have a solution...

Cheers,

TheFLY · 10-03-2002, 09:00 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Kimmykim
What it all boils down to is the wild wild internet west is now going away. It happened to audio text -- and companies survived -- it happened to telemarketing -- and companies survived, now it's the net's turn to go under the gun.

Personally I consider us lucky at this point -- a couple thousand bucks to start and then a few hundred a year to continue is much better than the alternative.

Alot of this stuff is being put in place because of the Patriot Act, and I'm sure there will be more. Of course we could be in the same shoes as gambling online --

This news from today:

http://www.msnbc.com/news/815789.asp?0dm=C13KT

I'm glad somebody sees the bigger picture here.

As I said before -- do you really think VISA is acting alone? Please... This is all part of the 911, Bin Laden bullshit. On CNN, within an hour of the planes hitting the fucking WTC they were already blaming the internet and encryption technology... I don't think I need to go into more depth than that -- as far as Bush is concerned we are baking cookies for a Bin Laden bake sale.

CoolE · 10-03-2002, 09:11 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by corvett

CCBill does not withhold any taxes from the payments that we send out. You as a business are responsible for paying the taxes on your earnings on your own.

Thank you Corvett.

The situation is gradually becoming less cloudy. I think I can even see... maybe... is that a faint light at the end of the tunnel?

JoeA · 10-05-2002, 05:38 AM

A word from the UK..

Outside of USA/Canada the next largest number of webmasters in the world are over here and a few of the larger webmasters have bank accounts in the States which is also required and I've been giving info about this to a few of those that don't. I've had one in New York for a couple of years and I'm waiting to hear from them about forming an LLC..

What annoys us is that we've been given very little time to set anything up and having spoken to accountants here.. we won't be double taxed.

In the meantime a few of us are planning to add to our CCBill/IBill/Epoch sign up pages that we don't accept Visa and re-direct them to another processor that does and isn't chargeing us the $750 but at the moment we all have different ideas flying all over the place..

To me Visa are the webmasters equivalent of the worlds Saddam Hussain at the moment.. LOL

shunga · 10-05-2002, 08:19 AM

As I understand it, IBill are making arrangements to process in Europe, which would explain the lack of "US presence required" in their announcement.

I've also heard somewhere that CCBill are looking at the same option, which would help a lot of people. So I repeat the question already asked here, is CCBill opening a European operation, and if so, when will it be up and running?

I don't want to have to go through the time and expense of an LLC, US bank account and all the other necessary details if this is in the wings, so it's important to clear this up right now.

CCBill in Europe, or not?

vegasdude · 10-05-2002, 08:30 AM

the requirement of webmasters needing to setup "camp" in the states is illegal and its only a matter of time before they have to change this rule..... but it can take time and that sux!

vik · 10-05-2002, 08:40 AM

Those who want to "opt-out" of Visa, stats show they control something like 70% of our sales (saw it on another post). I remember when I lost AmEx in 1999, lost 20% of my sales, over $1,000 a month. I don't know about the rest of you, but I can't afford to now lose 70% more of my sales, Visa has me by my balls.

But as an alternative, and Ron C please confirm this, I got an e-mail from Andy Kiefer at CCBILL yesterday saying they are looking into the possibility of the webmasters being able to charge MORE for a Visa signup than the others, as all Visa cards start with the number "4", should be easy programming change.

vik

Carrie · 10-05-2002, 08:44 AM

Quote:

What annoys us is that we've been given very little time to set anything up and having spoken to accountants here.. we won't be double taxed.

You only won't be double taxed if you don't have to pay taxes in your country.
Welcome to the world of doing business in the US.
Your company receives money from doing business in the US. It has to pay a tax on whatever money it receives.
Then that company either has to transfer what is left over to your company's bank in another country, or issue you a paycheck.
In either case, when the money falls into your hands, you are then required to pay income tax on that money.

Again, unless you have no income tax... you *will* be taxed twice... all US businesses have to pay taxes.
I suggest that you consult with US accountants on this, not accountants from your own country. If your business has a "presence" in the US that is receiving monies, and it doesn't file tax papers and pay the taxes due from that company, the IRS will shut you down and sue you for all taxes owed *plus* interest which accrues *daily*.

m0rph3us · 10-05-2002, 09:25 AM

well what if your real company was to bill your US company for services and there would be little money left in the US company. The amount billed could be tax deductable and you'd only pay taxes on what's left in the US company.

brocklanders · 10-05-2002, 09:43 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by CoolE

Absolutely you will lose the rebills. They aren't your customers they are CCBill's. When the surfer signed up they agreed to let CCBill charge/rebill them, and no one else.

If you have a site with a lot of members particularly one with great retention, changing third party billing companies is not an option. And keep in mind if you lose all your rebills you will also lose all your best affiliates (assuming you are a "partnership" program). They will be steaming mad and you will have a hell of a time to get them to re-sign-up with your new billing partner.

That's why come hell or high water, even if I have to sign my site over to my American relatives, or hire a dozen lawyers and as many accountants, I will comply with whatever Visa and CCBill say. I'm not going to be a martyr, I'm a businessman.

CoolE, you are absolutely wrong. Everyone has multiple billing companies, switching to one in no way jeopardizes your rebills. They aren't the billing company's customers, they are the paysite's customers. Check your facts bro.

Lensman · 10-05-2002, 11:19 AM

Thanks Ron, for the lending your knowledge on this subject. We learn more every day, and this thread is a great example.

CoolE · 10-05-2002, 12:08 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by brocklanders
CoolE, you are absolutely wrong. Everyone has multiple billing companies, switching to one in no way jeopardizes your rebills. They aren't the billing company's customers, they are the paysite's customers. Check your facts bro.

Okay there seems to be a little miscommunication here. My facts are completely accurate.

I was answering this question here:
> I have talked a couple of webmasters who are saying "Gee I
> guess I move my billing" I tell them that they might loose their
> rebills. True or false?

And I said:
> Absolutely you will lose the rebills. They aren't your customers
> they are CCBill's. When the surfer signed up they agreed to let
> CCBill charge/rebill them, and no one else.

If you move your billing from one 3rd party biller (IPSP) to another company, you cannot take your current members with you to that new company and have the new company process your rebills on those members. You can't do that because they aren't really your customers they are your old IPSPs customers, in the sense that they hold the member's credit card info and will not reveal it to anyone including another IPSP. That is what I was referring to.

You can still, in theory, keep your rebills by merging the password files from both your old biller and new biller. In effect using two IPSPs, one for your old customers (all rebills) and one for new customers (new sign-ups and new rebills).

But I wasn't considering the possibility of the second option in this case because the whole context of this conversation is that Visa will (or may) cut off webmaster accounts at CCBill (and elsewhere) if they don't comply to the new regs. And in the documents provided by CCBill, Epoch and IBill they have clearly said that co-billing with one IPSP that is complying with the regs and one that isn't (or is on a different Visa region) will not be permitted by Visa USA.

In otherwords, we aren't talking about moving away from CCBill just for NEW sign-ups, we are talking about having to move from CCBill completely and say goodbye to all rebills when we are cut off for ignoring the new requirements.

So what I said is completely accurate in the context of what we are talking about here. I hope that helps clarify.

BVF · 06-23-2004, 10:06 PM

Running across this thread during a search and had to bump it. It's amazing how scared people were and now I don't even think about that annual fee that comes out. It all came out to nothing.

DatingGold · 06-23-2004, 10:51 PM

good thread

punker barbie · 06-24-2004, 12:03 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Lensman
Thanks Ron, for the lending your knowledge on this subject. We learn more every day, and this thread is a great example.

corvette · 06-24-2004, 11:44 PM

almost 2 years ago

10-02-2002, 09:29 PM	#52
SweetT Shank-A-Potamus Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Atlanta, Georgia USA Posts: 1,756	KK knows way more about this stuff than I do, but I do remember that MasterCard was never serious about pulling out of adult. In fact, from what I have been told, they would have a very hard time making any changes that Visa is making because of their ongoing Anti-Trust investigation. The DOJ has alleged that MasterCard simply copies any decisions that Visa makes (which, in reality, was probably true at one time) so if they do anything similar now it is brought up in the Anti-Trust investigation and MasterCard wants that to go away fast. --T __________________

10-02-2002, 10:29 PM	#54
Mutt Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 34,431	Canucks, I've been through this, no Canadian bank will give you an adult Internet merchant account. Trying to get around it isn't a smart thing to do cuz the bank that does give you a merchant account if you lie to them, or use a merchant account from somebody with a bricks and mortar biz, will shut you down quickly unless you're really small, then you're totally screwed. You need to set up a US corp. Either Nevada or Delaware are good. It's not hard and it's not that expensive. I wish I still had the company in Nevada who did it for me but it's over two fried hard drives and a move ago. It was in Carson City, Nevada. __________________ I moved my sites to Vacares Hosting. I've saved money, my hair is thicker, lost some weight too! Thanks Sly!

10-02-2002, 11:01 PM	#57
SykkBoy Jesus loves bacon Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Sin City, Motherfucker Posts: 19,969	Hmmm, does this open up a new business opportunity to set up "holding companies" for these overseas companies? __________________ Support my new movie “The Second Coming”

10-02-2002, 11:08 PM	#59
the indigo Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: North America Posts: 2,016	. Last edited by the indigo; 10-02-2002 at 11:10 PM..

10-05-2002, 05:38 AM	#66
JoeA Confirmed User Join Date: May 2002 Location: London Posts: 568	A word from the UK.. Outside of USA/Canada the next largest number of webmasters in the world are over here and a few of the larger webmasters have bank accounts in the States which is also required and I've been giving info about this to a few of those that don't. I've had one in New York for a couple of years and I'm waiting to hear from them about forming an LLC.. What annoys us is that we've been given very little time to set anything up and having spoken to accountants here.. we won't be double taxed. In the meantime a few of us are planning to add to our CCBill/IBill/Epoch sign up pages that we don't accept Visa and re-direct them to another processor that does and isn't chargeing us the $750 but at the moment we all have different ideas flying all over the place.. To me Visa are the webmasters equivalent of the worlds Saddam Hussain at the moment.. LOL __________________ www.saharagetsdirty.com/ www.ravishingindians.com/ www.anglo-indian-girls.com/

10-02-2002, 09:41 PM	#53
Kimmykim bitchslapping zebras!!!!! Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: In a shack by the beach Posts: 16,015	What it all boils down to is the wild wild internet west is now going away. It happened to audio text -- and companies survived -- it happened to telemarketing -- and companies survived, now it's the net's turn to go under the gun. Personally I consider us lucky at this point -- a couple thousand bucks to start and then a few hundred a year to continue is much better than the alternative. Alot of this stuff is being put in place because of the Patriot Act, and I'm sure there will be more. Of course we could be in the same shoes as gambling online -- This news from today: http://www.msnbc.com/news/815789.asp?0dm=C13KT

10-02-2002, 10:47 PM	#55
Socks Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: May 2002 Location: Toronto Posts: 8,475	How far up in the bank system did you get? I know the heads of the Royal Bank and a few biggies at TD Waterhouse, and we're in private banking at CIBC. Maybe they need to be informed of what's happening and how much business they will lose if all the canadian companies have to open up a US company. I think the adult business needs a new way to process.

10-02-2002, 11:22 PM	#60
Socks Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: May 2002 Location: Toronto Posts: 8,475	Since when did iBill care about losing customers?

10-03-2002, 07:17 AM	#61
CoolE Confirmed User Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 451	Does CCBill (and the other IPSPs) withhold tax when the weekly payment is being sent to a US corporation? They do when it is made to a US individual right? I'm in Canada, so I'm not up to speed on this.

10-05-2002, 08:19 AM	#67
shunga Confirmed User Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Loveland Posts: 994	As I understand it, IBill are making arrangements to process in Europe, which would explain the lack of "US presence required" in their announcement. I've also heard somewhere that CCBill are looking at the same option, which would help a lot of people. So I repeat the question already asked here, is CCBill opening a European operation, and if so, when will it be up and running? I don't want to have to go through the time and expense of an LLC, US bank account and all the other necessary details if this is in the wings, so it's important to clear this up right now. CCBill in Europe, or not? __________________ Clockwork Cash - ICQ: 355-26-288 / Email: admin AT clockworkcash DOT com Asian Paysites : Exclusive Content : NATS or CCBill Thai Cuties : Shave Asians : JAVondemand

10-05-2002, 08:30 AM	#68
vegasdude Confirmed User Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: The Royal Family Crew Posts: 3,649	the requirement of webmasters needing to setup "camp" in the states is illegal and its only a matter of time before they have to change this rule..... but it can take time and that sux! __________________ Did you fucking talk to me??! Who the fuck told you to talk to me??!"

10-05-2002, 08:40 AM	#69
vik Confirmed User Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Minneapolis Posts: 144	Those who want to "opt-out" of Visa, stats show they control something like 70% of our sales (saw it on another post). I remember when I lost AmEx in 1999, lost 20% of my sales, over $1,000 a month. I don't know about the rest of you, but I can't afford to now lose 70% more of my sales, Visa has me by my balls. But as an alternative, and Ron C please confirm this, I got an e-mail from Andy Kiefer at CCBILL yesterday saying they are looking into the possibility of the webmasters being able to charge MORE for a Visa signup than the others, as all Visa cards start with the number "4", should be easy programming change. vik __________________ PhotosByVik.com Photonudity.com

10-05-2002, 09:25 AM	#71
m0rph3us Confirmed User Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Principality of Sealand Posts: 2,033	well what if your real company was to bill your US company for services and there would be little money left in the US company. The amount billed could be tax deductable and you'd only pay taxes on what's left in the US company. __________________ <font size="2" face="Tahoma"><a href="http://www.18blowjobs.com/webmasters/?640" target="_blank">Get paid $25 per signup</a> listing over <a href="http://galleries.18blowjobs.com/hosted.html" target="_blank">100 free hosted video galleries</a> - <a href="http://www.18blowjobs.com/webmasters/?640" target="_blank">Check it</a> » </font>

10-05-2002, 11:19 AM	#73
Lensman GFY Chaperone Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Adult.com Posts: 9,846	Thanks Ron, for the lending your knowledge on this subject. We learn more every day, and this thread is a great example.

06-23-2004, 10:06 PM	#75
BVF Black Vagina Finder Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: The Midwest Posts: 13,975	Running across this thread during a search and had to bump it. It's amazing how scared people were and now I don't even think about that annual fee that comes out. It all came out to nothing. __________________ Black Pussy Click On Mr Cosby..CCbill, 60/40, 136 FHG's....The Cos Loves Black Ghetto Pussy!!

06-23-2004, 10:51 PM	#76
DatingGold $6 PER EMAIL JOiN Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: California Posts: 13,185	good thread __________________ 9 Years of SOLID payouts and conversions! ADULT DATING - $100 PPS LIVE CAMS - $214 PPS WWW.DATINGGOLD.COM ICQ: 27442303

06-24-2004, 11:44 PM	#78
corvette Confirmed User Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: scottsdale Posts: 7,880	almost 2 years ago __________________ If you need a good company for check writing services, then check out checkissuing, and for webhosting, check out Phoenix NAP