Real Facts from CCbill - GoFuckYourself.com

RonC · 10-02-2002, 03:59 PM

I have read the other posts and I will try to answer some of the questions with Real Facts.

gothweb (Posted)

I think CCBill etc. should offer webmasters the possibility of dropping Visa, or even drop it altogether. I don't like the idea that they are rolling over as 90% of their customers get a thorough dicking

CCbill plans to offer this feature prior to Nov 15.

SextrafficPete (Posted)
i am still waiting to hear how this affects offshore third party billers ;)

Visa IPSP program is World Wide. The High Risk (Adult) criteria is the only thing that has not been Adopted World wide as of today. The additional features of the High Risk program is that each Sponsored Merchant has to pay the $750 fee ($500 to Visa, $250 to the Acquiring bank), and the Bank that processes the Transactions has to have 100 million in Tier 1 capital. The problem is that the Cross boarder requirement still exists in both the High Risk/Non High Risk program. As currently written an IPSP (CCbill, Ibill, Globill) ect. Can only register their sponsored Merchants (webmasters) in the Country that the webmaster and bank resides. (i.e. CCbill would have to have a bank in Australia for Australian webmaster, France for French webmasters ect..). As you can see this almost cripples foreign IPSP since they will not be able to process any webmaster that is not in their banks country for example the United States.

salsbury (Posted)

ccbill/ibill/epoch et al are probably not going to make a ton of money off these new regs. in fact they'll probably make less at first.

I would be the first to say I wish it was true. This is not the case. All IPSP will be forced to not accept new or old business from customers that we do not have a bank in their country.

muff (Posted)

From what I gather from talks with Epoch, anyone operating out of the US and using an IPSP (Internet Payment Service Providers) located in the USA will have to incorporate a business inside the USA in order to be in acceptance with the new regulations set forth by Visa

This is correct. You either have to have a Tax ID number (Give to Corporations) or a SSN number for individuals. We are not required to report under these numbers, but Visa is requiring that as proof of a person or corporation that is US based.
This is the same requirement that they have for any merchant account provided.

pugels (Posted)

have contact Glo-Bill and they are not affected by this at all. The recent changes they just made means that we won't have to go through all this crap. I had more than one processor but screw that. I'm moving all my sites to Globill.

This is the funniest one, by far. I do not think that anyone would dispute that CCbill, Ibill, Epoch are by far the 3 largest 3rd party processors in the Adult space. We have had several meetings with our banks and Visa regarding this issue. Does anyone think if it was as simple calling ourselves a foreign company and getting a bank offshore we would not do it?
Visa has made it VERY VERY clear, the rules are the rules and IPSP that do register their clients in the correct country will loose their right to process Visa transactions plain and simple. Remember Visa has to now approval all sponsored merchants prior to taking transactions after Nov 15. (This is new and old customers). They have also made it Very clear to us that IPSP and webmasters that try to avoid their rules will not be welcome to process under the Visa brand in the future after Nov 15th.

I guess all I can say is that every business man has to make his own choice in life. If you really think that Glo-bill knows more than CCbill, Ibill, Epoch combined then switch away and see what happens. The old timers will remember that no one believed that Visa would kill DMR with all those transactions either until it happened.

I will try to read this thread and post more info later tonight or in the morning. Please feel free to call our offices if you have any specific questions. Our Account managers are all fully briefed on the issues.

Ron Cadwell
CEO, CCBILL.com

[H] · 10-02-2002, 04:03 PM

Well, we're hearing one thing from you guys, and quite another from GloBill.

So who are we supposed to believe?

GloBill:

Quote:

Originally posted by A.Martin

First, Glo-Bill is not, never has and never will attempt to "get around the credit card companies". I can assure everyone that everything is above board and that Glo-Bill is in fact working very closely with BOTH the credit card industry and the merchant banking industry in the jurisdiction that we are now processing from. We are in full compliance with all regulations within our jurisdiction.

Second, this is way more than simply a jurisdictional issue. Glo-Bill had a small army of attorneys, banking experts and consultants working on this problem for more than three months. They have worked with us in crafting a unique and solid solution that will benefit both Glo-Bill and by extension all of Glo-Bill's clients.

We cannot speak for other processors and whatever paths they have chosen to go down. But by the same token, we do hope that ALL our competitors and the industry as a whole continues to prosper. That only helps all of us. Glo-Bill has simply positioned itself with a solution it regards as the most beneficial to its clients.

Carrie · 10-02-2002, 04:04 PM

Nice to have an official response from CCBill.

EscortBiz · 10-02-2002, 04:06 PM

Yup very true!

Thanks

McAttack · 10-02-2002, 04:06 PM

RonC,

Thanks for your information. One quick question. There are a lot of Adult companies based in Canada. I think a few of us are contemplating opening up an office and all that in the states to be able to continue using the billing companies, but is there plans for CCBill to open up a satelite office in Canada or any other country for that matter, before the end of the year?

The reason I ask is that I'm assuming you guys have heard of something coming down the pipeline a while back and as you stated, you will have to refuse business.

cyberpunk · 10-02-2002, 04:07 PM

I think Ron has the best signal to noise ratio on this board or that I've seen on any board in all my years.

Thanks for keepin us in the loop.

Since u didn't take this as a chance to spam I will for you

At DarkDollars we use CCBill !

quiet · 10-02-2002, 04:08 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by McAttack
One quick question. There are a lot of Adult companies based in Canada. I think a few of us are contemplating opening up an office and all that in the states to be able to continue using the billing companies, but is there plans for CCBill to open up a satelite office in Canada or any other country for that matter, before the end of the year?

great question

49thParallel · 10-02-2002, 04:10 PM

Two very different stories from CCBill and GLOBILL. One thing I do know is, "official" statements from "official" company representatives carries a much higher standard for truth, accuracy and for slander. Hopefully both companies have dotted their "i's" and crossed their "t's" before making public statements about their operations. Two very conflicting takes on this situation..only one can be entirely accurate.

Brown Bear · 10-02-2002, 04:13 PM

So does CCBill have merchant accounts in other countries besides the US?

For example:

Does CCBill have a merchant account in Australia? Canada? UK?

This would make it a lot easier for paysite owners in those countries to compy with the regulations

Brown Bear · 10-02-2002, 04:18 PM

The processing companies should get merchant banking relationships in some of the major countries where paysite operators live.

Is this possible?

RonC · 10-02-2002, 04:20 PM

Canada is a tough question.

there are only 26 banks in Canada that aquire for Visa. None will accept High Risk Adult. At this point no IPSP has solution for Canada.

Ron C

Jayson · 10-02-2002, 04:21 PM

The whole Australian question is interesting as currently NO australian bank can process credit cards in a currency other than A$. And if you had to bill in A$ that would be way to confusing and effect sales especially as the prices will look twice as high.

I know of one bank working on multicurrency processing but not sure how far away it is.

Jayson

BJ · 10-02-2002, 04:22 PM

This is what Ive gathered so far:

You will pay 500-750 to get an account
You will pay an anual fee to keep the account
If based outside the us, you will need to form an entity, which as I understand from setting up investment corps, can be done in a file cabinet in nevada for example. This would cost around 750 to have a lawyer set it up.
The big downfall is being double taxed on your income, but im sure there may be a way around this. So, all in all webmasters who wish to have high-risk processing need to pay around 2,000 dollars to continue.

Not that bad in my estimation.. but seems like a precursor to tougher times ahead.

Visa simply wants to ensure that people running a website are also capable of running a business. Makes sense.. kind of

gothweb · 10-02-2002, 04:27 PM

I have heard you guys have been negotiating with Visa on this. So, here's my question... What did you dicker them down from? If you really did anything to help this, then there should be an even worse regulation that we were saved from, right?

Brown Bear · 10-02-2002, 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by RonC
Canada is a tough question.

there are only 26 banks in Canada that aquire for Visa. None will accept High Risk Adult. At this point no IPSP has solution for Canada.

Ron C

OK, Canada is a tough one, but what about other countries? Australia? UK?

Where do processors have other merchant banking relationships?

quiet · 10-02-2002, 04:30 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by RonC
Canada is a tough question.

there are only 26 banks in Canada that aquire for Visa. None will accept High Risk Adult. At this point no IPSP has solution for Canada.

Ron C

what about: http://www.probilling.com/ ?

also, you mention allowing the ability to opt out of visa transactions. would this effectively exempt an out-of-US company from these new regs?

Zebra · 10-02-2002, 04:31 PM

Ron - Nice seeing you in this neck of the woods

Gotta say, this is potentially some of the biggest news we have seen in years. Will be interesting in 6-12 months to see where all this leads.

salsbury · 10-02-2002, 04:32 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by RonC
salsbury (Posted)

ccbill/ibill/epoch et al are probably not going to make a ton of money off these new regs. in fact they'll probably make less at first.

I would be the first to say I wish it was true. This is not the case. All IPSP will be forced to not accept new or old business from customers that we do not have a bank in their country.

i assume you mean that it is not the case that you'd make more money, right?

Brown Bear · 10-02-2002, 04:35 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by quiet

what about: http://www.probilling.com/ ?

also, you mention allowing the ability to opt out of visa transactions. would this effectively exempt an out-of-US company from these new regs?

Maybe probilling.com has offices in Canada, but has its merchant bank in the US?

cherrylula · 10-02-2002, 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by quiet

also, you mention allowing the ability to opt out of visa transactions. would this effectively exempt an out-of-US company from these new regs?

And US webmasters who don't want to use visa anymore?

Hooper · 10-02-2002, 04:58 PM

Thanks for the info Ron as well as the processing.

Informative as always...

There is a reason that we use CCbill and Paycom...

cherrylula · 10-02-2002, 04:59 PM

Hey how is this going to affect affiliate programs?

So a US based site must register and all this stuff, but it will be okay for Canadians to push these same sites and get checks from American processors? Does this make sense?

Will everyone's affiliate webmasters info need to be disclosed to visa as well? Internationally? I think Visa would want to know aaaallll about that, too.

Pete · 10-02-2002, 05:01 PM

The $1500 fee doesnt scare me, as I make about that much in the time it takes me to go for a good shit. Setting up camp in the States will be a pain in the ass.

gothweb · 10-02-2002, 05:05 PM

Can anyone confirm the total amount we have to pay this year?

$750?
$1500?
$1100?
$1850?

It's a little unclear.

pimpdog3 · 10-02-2002, 05:05 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Pete
The $1500 fee doesnt scare me, as I make about that much in the time it takes me to go for a good shit. Setting up camp in the States will be a pain in the ass.

lol

CoolE · 10-02-2002, 05:10 PM

Useful post Ron, thank you.

I have a comment. This all has huge implications for international webmasters. I am in Canada for example; I have spent all day talking to lawyers and accountants trying to understand how I can create a US LLC for myself and get the money from there into Canada. Setting up the LLC is no problem it's the damn money flow that is hell. No one I talked to seems to truly understand how to do all this. This is going to take some time to figure out. I think the November 15 deadline is going to be a huge problem for us international guys. I can't see getting all this resolved and in place by then. Mainly because clarification is needed as to what is meant by the requirement for "a US entity", and if it means the money (my weekly wire transfers I mean) must go to a US company owned by me, then there is much work to do - a lawyer and an accountant on each side of the border must be at least consulted and possibly retained ongoing.

Please keep this in mind as you talk to Visa, we international merchants need more time to adjust to this; that is my strong opinion. Visa needs to clarify and then grant us the time to comply. What they want will be done (I'm not about to say goodbye to all my rebills and affiliates), but it will take time for us international guys to do it.

archer · 10-02-2002, 05:19 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by PureMeds
This is what Ive gathered so far:

You will pay 500-750 to get an account
You will pay an anual fee to keep the account
If based outside the us, you will need to form an entity, which as I understand from setting up investment corps, can be done in a file cabinet in nevada for example. This would cost around 750 to have a lawyer set it up.
The big downfall is being double taxed on your income, but im sure there may be a way around this. So, all in all webmasters who wish to have high-risk processing need to pay around 2,000 dollars to continue.

Not that bad in my estimation.. but seems like a precursor to tougher times ahead.

Visa simply wants to ensure that people running a website are also capable of running a business. Makes sense.. kind of

the question of what canadian base webmasters is not a small one. there are more than a few of us hanging around. And, as usual, it's more than a little irritating to see rules implemented for the US market where it's obvious no thought has been given to the fact that there is an entire world outside of the US borders.

we live in interesting times. hopefully there will be a solution and hopefully that solution will a simple one.

and as to puremeds quote above... as a canadian why would setting up a 'presence' in the US with all the tax ramifications show that I am cabable of running a business? we can set up corporations here in our little igloos too, you know.

gothweb · 10-02-2002, 05:22 PM

Class action suit?
Organized lobbying of Visa by adult industry?
Any advocacy groups out there who claim to speak for us doing anything?

Manga1 · 10-02-2002, 05:27 PM

I would think that, as far as Canadians go, this rule of having to setup a US company can be challenged under NAFTA. I'm not a lawyer so I could be wrong, but I would think that the Canada-US Free Trade agreement should protect Canadian webmasters.

Brown Bear · 10-02-2002, 05:35 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Manga1
I would think that, as far as Canadians go, this rule of having to setup a US company can be challenged under NAFTA. I'm not a lawyer so I could be wrong, but I would think that the Canada-US Free Trade agreement should protect Canadian webmasters.

There is no rule of having to setup a US company.

There is a rule however saying that you can only signup with a processor whose merchant bank is in the same country as you.

BJ · 10-02-2002, 05:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by archer

and as to puremeds quote above... as a canadian why would setting up a 'presence' in the US with all the tax ramifications show that I am cabable of running a business? we can set up corporations here in our little igloos too, you know.

What I meant was by making it more expensive and by regulating the market by reporting high CB sites, it weeds out fly-by-night operations, especially the ones that are 'scammy'.

I think we can agree that it was almost to easy to gain the right to process credit cards. Yes it is easy to set up shop here in the states, and it has nothing to do with your capabilities to run a business, but it does show that you take the responsibility of running a site seriously. I agree it sucks but I think the true point to all of this is to simply get rid of the smaller entities which are cause the highest % of problems for visa.

Third party processing was initially used to loophole the system and allow anyone pretty much to process credit cards. I am sure third party processing will be around for a long time as well. The nuice is just getting tighter.

I have a merchant account and this news scares me as well. I cannot fall back on a third party processor if I fail at maintaining my own account. This news only encourages me to run my business better and that would be visa's objective.

CoolE · 10-02-2002, 05:42 PM

Ron, another thought...

Given what you said here:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by RonC
Canada is a tough question.

there are only 26 banks in Canada that aquire for Visa. None will accept High Risk Adult. At this point no IPSP has solution for Canada.

Ron C
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

What are the chances that Visa will grant an exception for Canadian websites and allow us to use U.S. IPSPs? Or at least allow it temporarily until the arrangements can be made?

Manga1 · 10-02-2002, 05:49 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Brown Bear

There is no rule of having to setup a US company.

There is a rule however saying that you can only signup with a processor whose merchant bank is in the same country as you.

Yes but under Free Trade a Canadian company should be able to do business with a US company with being restricted by things like this. Again I'm not a lawyer, but I believe this regulation would be against NAFTA and could be challenged by Canadian companies.

sweandy · 10-02-2002, 05:54 PM

Any european opinions on this matter? Which countries can continue their work as usuall without the need for a usa branch?

Brown Bear · 10-02-2002, 05:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Manga1

Yes but under Free Trade a Canadian company should be able to do business with a US company with being restricted by things like this. Again I'm not a lawyer, but I believe this regulation would be against NAFTA and could be challenged by Canadian companies.

Yeah, KimmyKim mentioned something about this in another thread. I'm not sure how this would work under NAFTA.

This Visa policy basically makes it impossible for a Canadian or Mexican company to do business with American companies like CCBill or IBill

Fletch XXX · 10-02-2002, 05:54 PM

What a fucking weird day.

jimmyf · 10-02-2002, 05:55 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by CoolE

Please keep this in mind as you talk to Visa, we international merchants need more time to adjust to this; that is my strong opinion. Visa needs to clarify and then grant us the time to comply. What they want will be done (I'm not about to say goodbye to all my rebills and affiliates), but it will take time for us international guys to do it.

You maybe should get every thing else set up ASAP and worry about how to get your money to Cdn...

BVF · 10-02-2002, 06:09 PM

Quote:

I will try to read this thread and post more info later tonight or in the morning. Please feel free to call our offices if you have any specific questions. Our Account managers are all fully briefed on the issues.

Ron Cadwell
CEO, CCBILL.com [/B]

Why can't I just get an email? What if I didn't read this board? When are you planning to let the rest of the webmasters know?

m0rph3us · 10-02-2002, 06:18 PM

what about affiliates ? will the also have to be in the US?

if you are promoting a sponsor that isn't based in the US, will we lose/forfeit all monies earned (rebills etc..) if they don't comply by nov 15th ?

steffie · 10-02-2002, 06:18 PM

Here is my question to Ron

If webmasters should decide NOT to pay the fee to CCbill and no longer use CCbill, what will happend to the recurring members?

If webmasters lag behind and don't have their money right by the 15th, will Ccbill cut off their billing and quit rebilling their members?

I have talked a couple of webmasters who are saying "Gee I guess I move my billing" I tell them that they might loose their rebills. True or false?

If I have an account with CCbill and pay the $ 250 yearly fee there, do I still have to pay it to Epoch? If it does go directly to Visa than I shouldn't or?

An official statement would be nice from CCbill et al. So I know if I can get them new saddlebags for my bike or just donate my bags to VISA and CCbill.

Added
Dammit you all had to do this right before Christmas. I HAVE to buy christmas gifts

Mark · 10-02-2002, 06:18 PM

Quote:

Any european opinions on this matter?

It sucks.. but we're used to being screwed one way or another by US billing companies..

gothweb · 10-02-2002, 06:19 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by BVF
Why can't I just get an email? What if I didn't read this board? When are you planning to let the rest of the webmasters know?

I have been asking this, here and in emails, all day. Still no answer.

On another note, there is no way your sig is legal, dude.

Cogitator · 10-02-2002, 06:25 PM

You know, this is beginning to remind me of the whole MasterCard "we won't take porn anymore" edict from early summer. Nothing changed, right?

CoolE · 10-02-2002, 07:53 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by steffie
I have talked a couple of webmasters who are saying "Gee I guess I move my billing" I tell them that they might loose their rebills. True or false?

Absolutely you will lose the rebills. They aren't your customers they are CCBill's. When the surfer signed up they agreed to let CCBill charge/rebill them, and no one else.

If you have a site with a lot of members particularly one with great retention, changing third party billing companies is not an option. And keep in mind if you lose all your rebills you will also lose all your best affiliates (assuming you are a "partnership" program). They will be steaming mad and you will have a hell of a time to get them to re-sign-up with your new billing partner.

That's why come hell or high water, even if I have to sign my site over to my American relatives, or hire a dozen lawyers and as many accountants, I will comply with whatever Visa and CCBill say. I'm not going to be a martyr, I'm a businessman.

Kimmykim · 10-02-2002, 08:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Cogitator
You know, this is beginning to remind me of the whole MasterCard "we won't take porn anymore" edict from early summer. Nothing changed, right?

Mastercard never said they wouldn't take porn, a certain company that is NOT a third party processor came here and said that. All of the big third parties said it was not true at the time.

I can find the thread if need be.

pimpdog3 · 10-02-2002, 08:36 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Kimmykim

Mastercard never said they wouldn't take porn, a certain company that is NOT a third party processor came here and said that. All of the big third parties said it was not true at the time.

I can find the thread if need be.

you couldnt find your own asshole..

BradShaw · 10-02-2002, 08:39 PM

Is Canada a country?

Rich J. · 10-02-2002, 09:01 PM

Any Canadian companies that are forced to setup shop in the U.S. may want to look into a TD Waterhouse bank account. They specialize in transfer of funds between the U.S. and Canada.

More info. -> HERE

Kimmykim · 10-02-2002, 09:04 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by pimpdog3

you couldnt find your own asshole..

I didn't have any trouble finding your address, you must be mistaken.

corvette · 10-02-2002, 09:17 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by BVF
Why can't I just get an email? What if I didn't read this board? When are you planning to let the rest of the webmasters know?

BVF, Goth,

This morning the message was posted, if you check reports.ccbill.com, you will see a pop-up explaining what is going on and a link to the FAQs.

We will make sure that ALL of our webmasters know about this right away...we didn't have as much time as we would have liked to have had

10-02-2002, 03:59 PM	#1
RonC Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 236	Real Facts from CCbill I have read the other posts and I will try to answer some of the questions with Real Facts. gothweb (Posted) I think CCBill etc. should offer webmasters the possibility of dropping Visa, or even drop it altogether. I don't like the idea that they are rolling over as 90% of their customers get a thorough dicking CCbill plans to offer this feature prior to Nov 15. SextrafficPete (Posted) i am still waiting to hear how this affects offshore third party billers ;) Visa IPSP program is World Wide. The High Risk (Adult) criteria is the only thing that has not been Adopted World wide as of today. The additional features of the High Risk program is that each Sponsored Merchant has to pay the $750 fee ($500 to Visa, $250 to the Acquiring bank), and the Bank that processes the Transactions has to have 100 million in Tier 1 capital. The problem is that the Cross boarder requirement still exists in both the High Risk/Non High Risk program. As currently written an IPSP (CCbill, Ibill, Globill) ect. Can only register their sponsored Merchants (webmasters) in the Country that the webmaster and bank resides. (i.e. CCbill would have to have a bank in Australia for Australian webmaster, France for French webmasters ect..). As you can see this almost cripples foreign IPSP since they will not be able to process any webmaster that is not in their banks country for example the United States. salsbury (Posted) ccbill/ibill/epoch et al are probably not going to make a ton of money off these new regs. in fact they'll probably make less at first. I would be the first to say I wish it was true. This is not the case. All IPSP will be forced to not accept new or old business from customers that we do not have a bank in their country. muff (Posted) From what I gather from talks with Epoch, anyone operating out of the US and using an IPSP (Internet Payment Service Providers) located in the USA will have to incorporate a business inside the USA in order to be in acceptance with the new regulations set forth by Visa This is correct. You either have to have a Tax ID number (Give to Corporations) or a SSN number for individuals. We are not required to report under these numbers, but Visa is requiring that as proof of a person or corporation that is US based. This is the same requirement that they have for any merchant account provided. pugels (Posted) have contact Glo-Bill and they are not affected by this at all. The recent changes they just made means that we won't have to go through all this crap. I had more than one processor but screw that. I'm moving all my sites to Globill. This is the funniest one, by far. I do not think that anyone would dispute that CCbill, Ibill, Epoch are by far the 3 largest 3rd party processors in the Adult space. We have had several meetings with our banks and Visa regarding this issue. Does anyone think if it was as simple calling ourselves a foreign company and getting a bank offshore we would not do it? Visa has made it VERY VERY clear, the rules are the rules and IPSP that do register their clients in the correct country will loose their right to process Visa transactions plain and simple. Remember Visa has to now approval all sponsored merchants prior to taking transactions after Nov 15. (This is new and old customers). They have also made it Very clear to us that IPSP and webmasters that try to avoid their rules will not be welcome to process under the Visa brand in the future after Nov 15th. I guess all I can say is that every business man has to make his own choice in life. If you really think that Glo-bill knows more than CCbill, Ibill, Epoch combined then switch away and see what happens. The old timers will remember that no one believed that Visa would kill DMR with all those transactions either until it happened. I will try to read this thread and post more info later tonight or in the morning. Please feel free to call our offices if you have any specific questions. Our Account managers are all fully briefed on the issues. Ron Cadwell CEO, CCBILL.com

10-02-2002, 04:06 PM	#4
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10-02-2002, 04:06 PM	#5
McAttack Confirmed User Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Montreal Posts: 625	RonC, Thanks for your information. One quick question. There are a lot of Adult companies based in Canada. I think a few of us are contemplating opening up an office and all that in the states to be able to continue using the billing companies, but is there plans for CCBill to open up a satelite office in Canada or any other country for that matter, before the end of the year? The reason I ask is that I'm assuming you guys have heard of something coming down the pipeline a while back and as you stated, you will have to refuse business. __________________ You know Teen Kelly converts like crazy.

10-02-2002, 04:07 PM	#6
cyberpunk Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2001 Posts: 1,377	I think Ron has the best signal to noise ratio on this board or that I've seen on any board in all my years. Thanks for keepin us in the loop. Since u didn't take this as a chance to spam I will for you At DarkDollars we use CCBill ! __________________ POST NO ADS! Last edited by cyberpunk; 10-02-2002 at 04:08 PM..

10-02-2002, 04:13 PM	#9
Brown Bear Confirmed User Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 4,982	So does CCBill have merchant accounts in other countries besides the US? For example: Does CCBill have a merchant account in Australia? Canada? UK? This would make it a lot easier for paysite owners in those countries to compy with the regulations __________________ Surrender all your independent thinking and Click Here for re-programming.

10-02-2002, 04:04 PM	#3
Carrie Confirmed User Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Virgin - nee Posts: 3,162	Nice to have an official response from CCBill.

10-02-2002, 04:10 PM	#8
49thParallel So Fucking Banned Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 1,197	Two very different stories from CCBill and GLOBILL. One thing I do know is, "official" statements from "official" company representatives carries a much higher standard for truth, accuracy and for slander. Hopefully both companies have dotted their "i's" and crossed their "t's" before making public statements about their operations. Two very conflicting takes on this situation..only one can be entirely accurate.

10-02-2002, 04:18 PM	#10
Brown Bear Confirmed User Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 4,982	The processing companies should get merchant banking relationships in some of the major countries where paysite operators live. Is this possible? __________________ Surrender all your independent thinking and Click Here for re-programming.

10-02-2002, 04:20 PM	#11
RonC Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 236	Canada is a tough question. there are only 26 banks in Canada that aquire for Visa. None will accept High Risk Adult. At this point no IPSP has solution for Canada. Ron C

10-02-2002, 04:21 PM	#12
Jayson Confirmed User Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: CZ Posts: 554	The whole Australian question is interesting as currently NO australian bank can process credit cards in a currency other than A$. And if you had to bill in A$ that would be way to confusing and effect sales especially as the prices will look twice as high. I know of one bank working on multicurrency processing but not sure how far away it is. Jayson __________________ Sapphic Cash - We Do It Right

10-02-2002, 04:22 PM	#13
BJ Confirmed User Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: asia Posts: 5,590	This is what Ive gathered so far: You will pay 500-750 to get an account You will pay an anual fee to keep the account If based outside the us, you will need to form an entity, which as I understand from setting up investment corps, can be done in a file cabinet in nevada for example. This would cost around 750 to have a lawyer set it up. The big downfall is being double taxed on your income, but im sure there may be a way around this. So, all in all webmasters who wish to have high-risk processing need to pay around 2,000 dollars to continue. Not that bad in my estimation.. but seems like a precursor to tougher times ahead. Visa simply wants to ensure that people running a website are also capable of running a business. Makes sense.. kind of

10-02-2002, 04:27 PM	#14
gothweb Confirmed User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Back in the USSA Posts: 8,849	I have heard you guys have been negotiating with Visa on this. So, here's my question... What did you dicker them down from? If you really did anything to help this, then there should be an even worse regulation that we were saved from, right? __________________ Photos by Ian X.: Distinctive photos of goth babes. Blood Money:Your traffic, my sites, our money. MojoHost: Still the best.

10-02-2002, 04:31 PM	#17
Zebra Banned from Kimmy's couch Industry Role: Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Down at Fraggle Rock Posts: 5,091	Ron - Nice seeing you in this neck of the woods Gotta say, this is potentially some of the biggest news we have seen in years. Will be interesting in 6-12 months to see where all this leads. __________________ Old School

10-02-2002, 04:58 PM	#21
Hooper Confirmed User Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: A Free America Posts: 2,210	Thanks for the info Ron as well as the processing. Informative as always... There is a reason that we use CCbill and Paycom... __________________ <a href="http://www.adultplatinum.com/"><img src="http://www.adult.com/wmbanners/10dcash-468x60.gif"></a>

10-02-2002, 04:59 PM	#22
cherrylula lol Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 15,969	Hey how is this going to affect affiliate programs? So a US based site must register and all this stuff, but it will be okay for Canadians to push these same sites and get checks from American processors? Does this make sense? Will everyone's affiliate webmasters info need to be disclosed to visa as well? Internationally? I think Visa would want to know aaaallll about that, too. Last edited by cherrylula; 10-02-2002 at 05:01 PM..

10-02-2002, 05:01 PM	#23
Pete Confirmed User Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Mr. Rogers Neighborhood Posts: 6,617	The $1500 fee doesnt scare me, as I make about that much in the time it takes me to go for a good shit. Setting up camp in the States will be a pain in the ass. __________________ Evoke Electronics

10-02-2002, 05:05 PM	#24
gothweb Confirmed User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Back in the USSA Posts: 8,849	Can anyone confirm the total amount we have to pay this year? $750? $1500? $1100? $1850? It's a little unclear. __________________ Photos by Ian X.: Distinctive photos of goth babes. Blood Money:Your traffic, my sites, our money. MojoHost: Still the best.

10-02-2002, 05:10 PM	#26
CoolE Confirmed User Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 451	Useful post Ron, thank you. I have a comment. This all has huge implications for international webmasters. I am in Canada for example; I have spent all day talking to lawyers and accountants trying to understand how I can create a US LLC for myself and get the money from there into Canada. Setting up the LLC is no problem it's the damn money flow that is hell. No one I talked to seems to truly understand how to do all this. This is going to take some time to figure out. I think the November 15 deadline is going to be a huge problem for us international guys. I can't see getting all this resolved and in place by then. Mainly because clarification is needed as to what is meant by the requirement for "a US entity", and if it means the money (my weekly wire transfers I mean) must go to a US company owned by me, then there is much work to do - a lawyer and an accountant on each side of the border must be at least consulted and possibly retained ongoing. Please keep this in mind as you talk to Visa, we international merchants need more time to adjust to this; that is my strong opinion. Visa needs to clarify and then grant us the time to comply. What they want will be done (I'm not about to say goodbye to all my rebills and affiliates), but it will take time for us international guys to do it.

10-02-2002, 05:22 PM	#28
gothweb Confirmed User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Back in the USSA Posts: 8,849	Class action suit? Organized lobbying of Visa by adult industry? Any advocacy groups out there who claim to speak for us doing anything? __________________ Photos by Ian X.: Distinctive photos of goth babes. Blood Money:Your traffic, my sites, our money. MojoHost: Still the best.

10-02-2002, 05:27 PM	#29
Manga1 Confirmed User Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Malakiaville Posts: 952	I would think that, as far as Canadians go, this rule of having to setup a US company can be challenged under NAFTA. I'm not a lawyer so I could be wrong, but I would think that the Canada-US Free Trade agreement should protect Canadian webmasters.

10-02-2002, 05:42 PM	#32
CoolE Confirmed User Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 451	Ron, another thought... Given what you said here: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Originally posted by RonC Canada is a tough question. there are only 26 banks in Canada that aquire for Visa. None will accept High Risk Adult. At this point no IPSP has solution for Canada. Ron C -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- What are the chances that Visa will grant an exception for Canadian websites and allow us to use U.S. IPSPs? Or at least allow it temporarily until the arrangements can be made?

10-02-2002, 05:54 PM	#34
sweandy Confirmed User Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 422	Any european opinions on this matter? Which countries can continue their work as usuall without the need for a usa branch?

10-02-2002, 05:54 PM	#36
Fletch XXX GFY HALL OF FAME DAMMIT!!! Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: that 504 Posts: 60,840	What a fucking weird day. __________________ Want an Android App for your tube, membership, or free site? Need banners or promo material? Hit us up (ICQ Fletch: 148841377) or email me fletchxxx at gmail.com - recent work - About me

10-02-2002, 06:18 PM	#39
m0rph3us Confirmed User Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Principality of Sealand Posts: 2,033	what about affiliates ? will the also have to be in the US? if you are promoting a sponsor that isn't based in the US, will we lose/forfeit all monies earned (rebills etc..) if they don't comply by nov 15th ? __________________ <font size="2" face="Tahoma"><a href="http://www.18blowjobs.com/webmasters/?640" target="_blank">Get paid $25 per signup</a> listing over <a href="http://galleries.18blowjobs.com/hosted.html" target="_blank">100 free hosted video galleries</a> - <a href="http://www.18blowjobs.com/webmasters/?640" target="_blank">Check it</a> » </font>

10-02-2002, 06:18 PM	#40
steffie Confirmed User Join Date: May 2002 Location: Somewhere in the Mountains, far far away Posts: 2,422	Here is my question to Ron If webmasters should decide NOT to pay the fee to CCbill and no longer use CCbill, what will happend to the recurring members? If webmasters lag behind and don't have their money right by the 15th, will Ccbill cut off their billing and quit rebilling their members? I have talked a couple of webmasters who are saying "Gee I guess I move my billing" I tell them that they might loose their rebills. True or false? If I have an account with CCbill and pay the $ 250 yearly fee there, do I still have to pay it to Epoch? If it does go directly to Visa than I shouldn't or? An official statement would be nice from CCbill et al. So I know if I can get them new saddlebags for my bike or just donate my bags to VISA and CCbill. Added Dammit you all had to do this right before Christmas. I HAVE to buy christmas gifts __________________ Partying since '96 and not going anywhere Anna's Dorm Last edited by steffie; 10-02-2002 at 06:20 PM..

10-02-2002, 06:25 PM	#43
Cogitator Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Florida Posts: 672	You know, this is beginning to remind me of the whole MasterCard "we won't take porn anymore" edict from early summer. Nothing changed, right? __________________ - this space intentionally left blank -

10-02-2002, 08:39 PM	#47
BradShaw Confirmed User Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: KB's trailer Posts: 7,840	Is Canada a country? __________________ Sig too big http://www.gofuckyourself.com/gfy_faqs.html Want to use a large banner in your sig??? Contact Eric about getting on as an advertiser - eric AT adult.com

10-02-2002, 09:01 PM	#48
Rich J. Confirmed User Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: California Posts: 589	Any Canadian companies that are forced to setup shop in the U.S. may want to look into a TD Waterhouse bank account. They specialize in transfer of funds between the U.S. and Canada. More info. -> HERE __________________ Adult Web Marketing Specialist with 10 years of Industry Experience - CONTACT ME