my audio wasnt very high so i didnt actually hear any verbal commands.

all i heard was "cmon" and "stop resisting" i didnt hear any clear charges or commands .. but like i said i didnt have my audio very high , you couldnt hear much besides the guy.

if they asked him to leave and told him what would happen if he didnt then he is an idiot and deserved what he got, he would have had a much stronger argument if he had just calmly left ..

It has been reported that he was asked to step away from the microphone more than once and refused...then the microphone was cut off and he still refused...but I don't think the tape of the incident began at the initial point of the incident.

That sucks. They shouldn't have tasered him. You can see that fat police guy smiling when they all have him on the ground. Do you think he'd be smiling if 4 of his fellow officers were injured in the 'struggle'?

i really cant see what all the fuss is about...except that Orwell was about 23 years off target...

The simple fact is that one must comply with the verbal commands of an officer...even if the command is as simple as shut up...or one is in violation of the law. The officer does not have to initially go into any explanation of why he is commanding you or what the consequences may be if you do not comply. If you are told to shut up and you do not...you are in violation. If at a later point the officer is deemed to be in violation of law or regulations then one has a cause of action.

This was not a free speech issue. If he was in his own house then you could call it a free speech issue. Or if he had organized his own forum and invited Kerry you could call it a free speech issue.

This was different. He was attending someone else's forum and didn't play by their rules. They asked him to leave and he didn't. He also resisted the escort out. He fucked up plain and simple.

Is that anything like reading "My Pet Goat" to a classroom full of children while america was under attack?

sissy nancy boys always wanna take down the guys who actually have balls

simply not true..

a police officer cannot arrest you for not shutting up if he says "shut up", he has to have a reason to arrest you such as "causing a disturbance" and it would be proper procedure to inform someone of such..

regardless even if it was proper police procedure i dont think the majority of americans want police to arrest people for asking a question .. police are there to PROTECT AND SERVE not to just dole out arbitrary punishment. I think its completely reasonable to want have police state their request and what will happen if they don't comply..

we have all heard this many times either in real life or on cops. they say "stop ___" or you will be arrested for ____" if they dont comply they are arrested..

i have never seen a cop say " don't stand near that pole" and someone say " why" and then they get tackled and arrested.

the guy overreacted and was an idiot , that is not in question , i think anyone can agree on that ,, but its not unreasonable for them to answer him when he asks why ..

O'rly? Following the logic above, we had an outstanding freedom of speech in the USSR. The one was allowed to say: "Fuck Lenin and Brezhnev! Fuck KGB!" if he/she did that on his own kitchen, but he/she would be arrested for saying the same thing in a public place (e.g. some forum).

You can't walk into a movie theater and start bitching about the President while everyone is watching a movie and expect them not to toss your ass out. Because someone owns the theater and decided that it's more enjoyable if everyone shuts up during the movie.

This was a University's event. They choose who can be there and who can't and how long people can speak. If he had a problem with that he could choose to not be there and invite Kerry to his own event. That's his freedom of speech right.

Movie theaters are for watching movies. But forums are for discussing. Can't you see a difference?

No I don't. People have to agree to the rules of the theater just like they have to agree to the rules of the forum. It the rules are ask your question in 2 minutes then shut up then you have to follow. Otherwise a Republican could have showed up and monopolized the mic without interference cuz he has free speech?

Free speech means you have the right to say whatever you want but not where ever you want.

Ok, tell me the rules of Kerry's forum then. Are they (the rules) sound like: "Welcome to my forum and feel free to discuss anything that I like, and be careful of telling anything I don't because you will be arrested and stun gunned" Is that correct? So what is a difference between the modern USA and the old good Soviet Union where you also was allowed to discuss anything the Communist Party like to hear, and wasn't allowed to discuss anything it's don't?

I thought the open forums are are exactly those places where you can discuss something and prove your state of view on something. Seems I was wrong, and the only right place for that is your own kitchen only.

I don't know if it was Kerry's rules. Probably the university's rules. I presume that they wanted as many people to have a chance to speak as possible. He was disrupting the forum. They asked him to stop talking and he didn't.

The difference between modern USA and the old Soviet Union is that if this kid wants to hold his own forum he can. Or if he wants he can have his own TV show, newspaper, radio show, or magazine. That's his free speech. But he cannot walk in to someone else's organized event and decide he gets to speak until he tires because if he does he is taking away the free speech rights of the organizers/Kerry to have their forum with their rules.

heard of few times " bro " and " bro man " ....

Do bro's do that... Let me see on bromasters.... :winkwink:

btw cyberxxx this forum is also for discussing. However if Lensman wants he can have us banned without reason. It's his forum. If we don't like it we can all leave.

Banned but not stun gunned or even killed :winkwink: However I got your point, thanks.

If he could, he would. :1orglaugh

Wow you American guys should come over and live in the uk, The teenagers over here tell the cops to go fuck themselves, put their fingers up at them and still get away with it

As I stated earlier my Nephew was there so I just called him to see what he had to say about it.

He sent me this link of another angle of the video https://youtube.com/watch?v=L1POK02A3vQ which shows him sitting down in the background. As it turns out he was the last person in the time allowed to ask Kerry a question. He said that they had two microphones setup, one on each side of the stage and he was asking the last question from the left side ( facing the stage ) and this CNN clip starts with Kerry pointing at him as he begins to answer it.

While kerry was answering my Nephew's question the other guy barged up to the mic on the right side and demanded that he get to ask his question and went on about how long he had waited. He then goes into his rant. My Nephew goes back to his seat which you can see in the clip. He's wearing the black and white striped polo shirt.

You see what happened next on the youtube video. After the guy was taken outside Kerry turned to my Nephew and answered his question.

I asked my nephew what his thoughts were and he said the guy seemed very agitated and was ranting and it seemed much more intense as it happened than it does watching it on the video. Call it the heat of the moment. He said there were a lot of people clapping in the beginning because he was clearly being disruptive and the audience was happy to see him go. The mood changed just a bit when they saw how serious it was becoming. He also said the Campus Police were just trying to get him off the mic and sit down and when he wouldn't they told him he had to leave. That's when he starts saying " why am I being arrested ". At that point he wasn't being arrested, he was being ejected from the premise.
When he failed to walk out he was " escorted " out but resisted and finally had to be restrained and subdued.

My Nephew was a little surprised I knew about about it and I had to clue him in on how the incident was being intensely debated WORLDWIDE. I need to get that boy a TV for his dorm room :1orglaugh

You must lead a sheltered life. I've been to numerous events where heckling occurs. This situation should have been handled more professionally. Kerry was ready to address the kid's questions. Instead the police overreacted, and then used unnecessary force on him (over 80 people have been killed as a result of tasers being used on them).

If the kid had died, what would you say then?

BTW Sagi, did you know that AFF has affiliates that are using stolen content, and AFF has ads on sites with stolen content and CP/CP terms on them?

ADG

I saw that a lot in Camden.

how can you people say he didnt have a right or shouldnt have been there?? it was a PUBLIC forum, on a PUBLIC university, with an ELECTED official.


some of you say he was rambling and his agenda was just to start trouble...to most people, it looks like he was prefacing his question with some information to put in into context


like i said, this is america and if you can't speak your mind without being assaulted by the POLICE - then wtf is happening to this country?? its like people that protest the war holding signs in public, and you have people saying they're "being un-american" or they have no right to do that when soldiers are dying in Iraq "DEFENDING AMERICA'S FREEDOM"...but guess what you fucking idiots - its the defense of america's freedom that ALLOWS us the rights to do shit like protest, or to question government officials

This happens hundreds if not thousands of times every day in America. Cops tell people to "move along" from public and private places all the time and arrest people if they don't comply. They can invoke loitering or disorderly conduct and related statutes and force you to shut the fuck up and get lost to put it bluntly. Otherwise they would have obnoxious dickheads standing their ground at every street corner, parking lot, bar, gas station, assembly hall, mall, beach and everywhere else thinking they were right to tell the police to "get bent".

And if you resist in any way either physically or even by refusing to budge and arguing back and taking an aggressive posture you will rightfully get arrested if you are being a jerkoff and beaten up if you wrestle or resist.

It may be a little unfair, but it's the only practical way to deal with the majority of people they encounter day to day- all the young, the stupid, the drunk, the wise-asses, and the criminals. So even if you are an innocent do-gooder trying to make a point at a political rally, you better heed their warnngs.

Good post.

That first-hand account should put a few questions to rest for some here.


But sadly, most won't have the attention span to read it all.

You are wrong...if you do not shut up you can be charged with interferring in the lawful performance of an officer.

That sucks, the guy did nothing.

He had the mic ,so he just didnt barge in and John Kerry wanted to answer him.

read Tony, read

No, he didn't have the mic. There was only so much time available for the Q & A and as I said above my nephew was the last person in line that could ask a question in the alotted time scheduled for the forum.

There were two mics set up. My nephew was on one and the other one was cutoff meaning the line had been ended. While my nephew was asking the final question this guy got up out of his seat and interrupted my nephew and went on about how he had been waiting all afternoon and he was going to ask his question.

One thing that hasn't been mentioned was that it was explained very clearly at the beginning that obscene and vulgar language would not be tolerated. Also the students were asked to limit it to one question so as many people as possible could get a chance in the time period.

So when it was said that my nephew would have the last question this guy got up and demanded he got his question in which turned into three questions that he felt the need to preface. He also said something about " Clinton got impeached for essentially getting a blowjob ". That's when they cut off the sound to his mic.

So if you want to add it up he was rude to his fellow students and guests, didn't follow the rules set fourth by the organizer, didn't stop talking when he was asked to even though he was out of turn. Didn't leave when asked to and didn't comply with the campus police.

But John Kerry wanted to answer him.

i have never ever heard of a case of this happening , ever .. your missing a crucial part of the conversation , they say move along , then they say " if you dont move along you will be arrested" THEN they are arrested.. everyone has heard this .


they can do anything i want they suppose but this isnt what they do..

they alwaysgive you a warnign and explain what will happen if you dont comply..

always

you have every reason to stand at any of the places youy mentioned with no fear of being told to move by a police officer nor could they charge you with a crime.. unless there were other circumstances like they were conducting an investigation.



only if you were informed when asked why you were being detained. plain and simple.

He never gave him a chance to answer, that was the problem. He did not want an answer, he wanted a forum.

Sorry, but that is incorrect. Most of those places are private property.

True but I'm guessing that Kerry doesn't have the last say, I'd say the organizer or campus police does and by the time Kerry said to let him ask the question the guy had already pushed well beyond the bounderies set forth and was delt with accordingly.

exactly, you have to follow the script in these situations and only ask pre-approved softball questions...i mean, what was this guy thinking ?

translation:)?

It's pretty fucked. What I clearly understand is that there was absolutely no point to taser the guy.

You are wrong on every count...but you apparently will not accept that you are wrong...so be it...you are dismissed.

The guy needed to be thrown out. He interrupted the session and began reciting a monologue without allowing Kerry to respond. However, I don't feel they needed to taser him. I think that was done purely out of sadistic pleasure of the officer(s).

America - the song "One More Time" by "Daft Punk" is playing in the background..... you fuckers had plenty of time to wake up and smell the coffee, but it seems you have carried on the demise the english tried to finish... Your cops put more people in danger than any criminal, and it is all part of the same fucking conspiracy going since the birth of man. You impeach a guy for getting a head job - you can't have that - yet the ayer to the long line of freedom fuckers, is cruising the world in a drizabone with his team of chaos mungers lapping up the spoils of mankinds daily battles won - which is always to service that guy on top first, and feed the family last. Sad that for one second, anyone should be subjected to the bullshit slavery endured from cradle to grave in order to service some fuck that wants us in the dark fearing to even breathe, whilst they live a life of pate and caviar.

funny vid here to cheer you up.

It now appears that this kid has a modus operandi.

He may live a sheltered life, but you didn't even watch the video. The point is that this kid didn't ask a question he went on a rant. At no point was it obvious that he had any intention of shutting his mouth to let Kerry answer him. Know what you are talking about before you chime in next time.

On a side note, this isn't about AFF, stolen content, or anything else industry related. Let's keep our focus or not post.

12 page pdf of the Police Report

I noted that none of the half dozen or so officers that filed a report mentioned that the student asked over a dozen times why he was being arrested. Considering that, "Why are you arresting me?", are the words he spoke more than any other words, I am surprised to see it omitted. They also left out that he stated repeatedly that he didn't think he had done anything wrong.

None of the reports include that when the student was on the ground, he clearly stated he would walk out if they would get off of him.

Instead they tried to portray his actions in the worst possible way, with some stating that he lifted one of the Officers up, that he was punching and kicking the officers, etc.

What I saw in watcing several videos of this incident is him once pushing back against an officer, and other than that he was trying to avoid being grabbed and manhandled.

The use of the taser was unnecessary (a taser is a potentially lethal weapon - over 80 people have died as a result of being tasered).

ADG

Being a complete tool like this guy, is not going to help him get his point across, it just makes him look like a bigger jackass. IMHO the campus police were in the right. Hopefully this guy gets a little jail term and learns a lesson. It also appears that he is quite the prankster and that this could possibly be a prank. We shall see.

First off the comment is so ridiculous. I am sure more than 80 people have died over the years from tripping too, should we not allow people to walk? Considering all the uses and times a taser has been deployed 80 deaths is nothing. Think about how many drugs people take on a daily basis that are FDA approved yet more than 80 people have died from, how many standard traffic accidents have caused deaths, hell diabetics can die from an infection after clipping their toenails. This statement does not make your point imho.

Brad, I did watch the video before posting (and I've watched several other versions of it since). The student tried to preface his remarks, and rambled at first, but then got to his three questions (he did interrupt Kerry after the first question, saying he wanted to add two more questions, which he then quickly did).

No sooner had the student finished his third questions, and just as Kerry started to answer, he was grabbed by two officers.

He very well may have continued trying to interrupt Kerry as he answered. Kerry is experienced with hecklers. He either would have rolled out a snappy comeback, or thanked the audience and left. I maintain the police made the situation worse by overreacting, and that the use of the taser was unneccessary.

If you read my previous posts on this issue, I am not defending the student's deplorable behavior, but nor will I condone the deplorable actions of the police in this instance.

As for my comment to Sagi about AFF having ads on sites filled with stolen content, I was being facetious. Everyone knows that AFF would never place an ad on a site that they thought had stolen content or CP/CP terms on it, or allow affilates to send traffic/sales to AFF from such sites...I'm being facetious again (in case it wasn't apparent, LOL).

ADG

Rair enough. I guess I just interpreted it a little different from you. I still think that the kid was just trying to get his 15 minutes and didn't really have any intention of letting Kerry answer his questions. But, I guess we'll never know because the campus cops stepped in and interrupted the whole thing.

If the statements about him barging through security without being searched and pushing someone else off the mic to ask his question are true, he definitely did deserve to be escorted out. Open public discussion is one thing, but that doesn't give a person the right to not follow the same rules as everyone else.

That being said, I'm more shocked that they didnt subdue him PRIOR to him asking the questions. I think its ridiculous that they just let someone barge through security, without being searched, and shove someone else off the mic. It just makes it all the more upsetting that him asking a semi legitimate question of a high ranking government official was the cause of all of this.

Also, the use of the taser was ridiculous. He was on the ground. They could have handled it a lot better.

To sum it up...he was a dipshit because thought he could bypass the rules and do whatever he wanted. The cops were dipshits for letting him barge in and push someone off the mic, and also for tasering him when he was on the ground.