Possible Solution To Torrent Sites - Page 2 - GoFuckYourself.com

halfpint · 08-19-2007, 02:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kandah

I still recieve tons of spam, so I guess the spam groups failed with that technique.

Yep I aggree we had the same with all the spam email, it hasent stop a thing, we all still get spam mail and thats illegal, the fact is the internet is just one big money making machine and people dont really care how they make it or who they rip off and i dont think that will ever change

seeric · 08-19-2007, 03:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Redrob

Sample DMCA Notice and Cease and Desist Notice for download:

http://www.findlegalforms.com/xcart/customer/home.php?productid=28141&cat=1228&page=1&partner=g oogle

Thank You.

ServerGenius · 08-19-2007, 03:12 PM

Don't mean to hijack this thread....but since it's related to this subject I hope
you don't mind me dropping a link to another thread

http://www.gofuckyourself.com/showthread.php?t=761731

noone1 · 08-19-2007, 03:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Minte

There is a simple solution. As a longtime Autodesk customer who has shelled out many thousands of dollars starting with R10 up to the current Inventor I am disappointed that their products are all available for free on these sites.
I will drop them a letter and let them know that.

They should be glad to have you as a loyal customer. I think anyone would. I see your point. Why should you pay for something which others are getting for free?

My answer to that is that you are probably profiting greatly from it. I'm not positive what your business is and how big of a role CAD software plays, but you are probably paying a fair price for the profits which you are generating from the help of their software. If you weren't, I doubt you'd keep using it.

I just don't see a reason to be upset about people not paying for something they don't use. Would you be upset if you just bought a Gallardo and then the next day, Gallardos were given to all the blind people in the US (assuming they didn't resell them or let their friends drive em ;) )? It's a totally ridiculous example, but it illustrates the point.

RawAlex · 08-19-2007, 03:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eman - PG

First off, DMCA is a US law. Sending a DMCA notice to Sweden or Russia embassies or ISPs won't do anything. For DMCA to be effective against foreign hosted content, you'd have to DMCA their USA peers as the stolen content travels through their US network.

As mentioned in my post above, based on the way the torrent protocol works, the owner of the content would have to send a DMCA notice to the seeders (people with the files on their computer) and their ISPs (ie. Joe Blow in Alabama and Comcast).

In regards to the tracker servers. Trackers are usually hosted offshore and they do not share any content, but only a list of IPs where the source content can be found on the seeder's and peers' computers.

Eman, with due respect, 90% of the companies providing the actual connectivity are either based in the US or are owned by US companies. As such, to a greater or less extent, they can be touched by a DMCA because they have responsibilities as good corporate citizens in the US.

Example, is piratebay.org - "hosted" by p80.net, which is (shock) registered at Directnic. That would be a good place to send a DMCA.

P80.net is getting their connectivity (the route I get) from sprintlink. Spring comes up with an address in Kansas.

There are all sorts of fun places to deal with on this issue. If P80 / port80 / rix internet is not going to remove connectivity from pirate bay (and like pirate bay will try to hide behind lax swedish laws) then you get the US based companies that provide their connectivity to take the action that US law obliges them to take.

I understand completely how torrent sites work - but you miss the point. Without sites like piratebay, there would be no way for 99.9% of end users to find a single torrent to download. Hiding the actual links on disposible tracker domains (they often last only 48 hours) to artificially create a firewall of responsibility is something for the courts to argue about, in my opinion it clearly shows guilt of conscious.

Torrent "guides" work hand in hand with the trackers to provide the method and ability for people to distribute all forms of material, legal and illegal. Piratebay is hiding in Sweden because they know pretty much anywhere else they would get escorted to a cell with Bubba for recreation for the next few years. Again, shows a consciousness of guilt. If they thought they were right, they wouldn't be hiding under the ice in Sweden.

Eman - PG · 08-19-2007, 03:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RawAlex

Eman, with due respect, 90% of the companies providing the actual connectivity are either based in the US or are owned by US companies. As such, to a greater or less extent, they can be touched by a DMCA because they have responsibilities as good corporate citizens in the US.

Example, is piratebay.org - "hosted" by p80.net, which is (shock) registered at Directnic. That would be a good place to send a DMCA.

P80.net is getting their connectivity (the route I get) from sprintlink. Spring comes up with an address in Kansas.

There are all sorts of fun places to deal with on this issue. If P80 / port80 / rix internet is not going to remove connectivity from pirate bay (and like pirate bay will try to hide behind lax swedish laws) then you get the US based companies that provide their connectivity to take the action that US law obliges them to take.

I understand completely how torrent sites work - but you miss the point. Without sites like piratebay, there would be no way for 99.9% of end users to find a single torrent to download. Hiding the actual links on disposible tracker domains (they often last only 48 hours) to artificially create a firewall of responsibility is something for the courts to argue about, in my opinion it clearly shows guilt of conscious.

Torrent "guides" work hand in hand with the trackers to provide the method and ability for people to distribute all forms of material, legal and illegal. Piratebay is hiding in Sweden because they know pretty much anywhere else they would get escorted to a cell with Bubba for recreation for the next few years. Again, shows a consciousness of guilt. If they thought they were right, they wouldn't be hiding under the ice in Sweden.

Alex,
I understand your point about hitting the US peering of torrent websites, however if it was as simple as sending a DMCA to Sprintlink, why is Piratebay still up while MPAA MSFT and the rest are after them? Are they just changing hosts? Hosts outside of the US usually have multiple peers inside the US or, sometimes the don't even peer directly with US companies. For example a Sweedish ISP might peer with Telia in EU which peers with Sprint in US which in turn peers with Comcast in US. You'd have to send DMCA notices to every company in the link.

Piratebay is indeed in Sweeden, registered though a German registrar, hosted by p80 in Sweeden which has the following peers:
http://www.fixedorbit.com/AS/16/AS16150.htm

RawAlex · 08-19-2007, 03:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by halfpint

Yep I aggree we had the same with all the spam email, it hasent stop a thing, we all still get spam mail and thats illegal, the fact is the internet is just one big money making machine and people dont really care how they make it or who they rip off and i dont think that will ever change

Actually, if you look at your spam a little closer, you will see that spam groups and spam laws have had a huge effect on the spam you get every day.

A large percentage of the spam you get now is as a result of spyware installs on end user PCs and fairly complicated server hacks. Commercial spammers are a dying breed, severely limited in their work because they have a harder and harder time getting landing pages that work and sponsors that are willing to take the heat. Even companies that have accepted huge levels of spam before have dropped out of the game because the return is no longer worth the hassle.

Check your spam, large amounts of it now are either pump and dump stocks or semi-lame attempts to get your to install their spyware so they can send more pump and dump stocks and share infections. I just checked 10 pages of stuff on spamarrest, and pretty much all of it was pdf spam (attempt infections).

Aussie Rebel · 08-19-2007, 03:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RawAlex

Eman, with due respect, 90% of the companies providing the actual connectivity are either based in the US or are owned by US companies. As such, to a greater or less extent, they can be touched by a DMCA because they have responsibilities as good corporate citizens in the US.

Example, is piratebay.org - "hosted" by p80.net, which is (shock) registered at Directnic. That would be a good place to send a DMCA.

P80.net is getting their connectivity (the route I get) from sprintlink. Spring comes up with an address in Kansas.

There are all sorts of fun places to deal with on this issue. If P80 / port80 / rix internet is not going to remove connectivity from pirate bay (and like pirate bay will try to hide behind lax swedish laws) then you get the US based companies that provide their connectivity to take the action that US law obliges them to take.

I understand completely how torrent sites work - but you miss the point. Without sites like piratebay, there would be no way for 99.9% of end users to find a single torrent to download. Hiding the actual links on disposible tracker domains (they often last only 48 hours) to artificially create a firewall of responsibility is something for the courts to argue about, in my opinion it clearly shows guilt of conscious.

Torrent "guides" work hand in hand with the trackers to provide the method and ability for people to distribute all forms of material, legal and illegal. Piratebay is hiding in Sweden because they know pretty much anywhere else they would get escorted to a cell with Bubba for recreation for the next few years. Again, shows a consciousness of guilt. If they thought they were right, they wouldn't be hiding under the ice in Sweden.

I like reading your posts Alex, you sound like a very switched on guy

jonesonyou · 08-19-2007, 03:44 PM

Thanks for up to date knowledge. Let us know when it is time what to do.

Theo · 08-19-2007, 03:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by halfpint

Do you seriously think that the likes of warner bros, msn, aol and the other big named companys wouldent have allready filled lawsuites agaist them, if they knew they could win.

This is not what I said, but regardless unless you see the outcome of a trial you can't be sure for anything and so far we're lacking of action. If an organization, person or a company within EU doesnt find justice they can proceed (although it will take time) to the supreme court of EU and any decision taken there is above any EU country's law and will be immediately enforced.

RawAlex · 08-19-2007, 03:48 PM

Eman, I think to some extent that RIAA and MPAA have tried to avoid playing whack-a-mole with the torrent sites. They have had major successes inside the US, to the point where there appears to be no torrent or torrent guide sites operating in the US, and they certainly don't last long if they pop up.

The torrent sites are down to hiding out in remote places hoping to get enough steps between themselves and responsible companies. I would be truly interested to hear what a company like Sprint would have to say face to this issue.

jonesonyou · 08-19-2007, 03:48 PM

Thanks for up to date knowledge. Let us know when it is time what to do.

»Rob Content« · 08-19-2007, 04:16 PM

A1rek can attest to the fact that I have many things in motion that WILL make a difference. I strongly encourage anyone that has content that is in violation take notice and be prepared to commit to the steps to do something.

Anyone else that wants to help people will be needed for various parts of what is going on.

If you have any questions at all please get me on ICQ and I can give you more information. I don't feel proper giving out any information as to the legal steps of this as people associated are reading this right now.

RawAlex · 08-19-2007, 04:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VG.Content

A1rek can attest to the fact that I have many things in motion that WILL make a difference. I strongly encourage anyone that has content that is in violation take notice and be prepared to commit to the steps to do something.

Anyone else that wants to help people will be needed for various parts of what is going on.

If you have any questions at all please get me on ICQ and I can give you more information. I don't feel proper giving out any information as to the legal steps of this as people associated are reading this right now.

Based on what I have seen in other threads in the last couple of days, there are more than a few operators of file yoinking sites that are around, all pissed of and indignant that we "don't understand web 2.0". For me it is the complete proof that these guys are about 1 or two sponsors away from a world of hurt.

Gerco · 08-19-2007, 04:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AsianDivaGirlsWebDude

Great post!

It is heartening to see this issue finally get the attention that it deserves.

The group being organized by A1R3K and the rest, has the potential to start turning the tide.

The larger the collective effort the better. This means not just looking out for our own content, but that of others as well, notifying them so that they will hopefully file a DMCA as well.

If GFY does not want to host a specific forum for this, then I recommend a new anti-piracy board be created. It would be good to have separate sections for debating issues, reporting abuse, tips/forms, and tracking addresses for the copyright abusers and their upstream hosts (and making note of those whom fraudulently list such info or do not cooperate).

A pretty good database can be compiled that might be useful in a class action lawsuit of particularly abusive and non-cooperative sites. A scorecard could be kept as well, which would aid in lobbying efforts to enact stricter rules against copyright abuse, not just in the US, but worldwide.

ADG

I love the idea of a central board where we post copyright issues. Publicly outing company's is really the only true way of getting things done. But take is a step further and get a good law firm behind it also, so once the contents owners finds out about the infringement, they can simply do something about it.

I'm tired of sending out DMCA notices. They cost me time and money, to remove something that has already cost me money. It's time to sue and start making some of this back.

Hell, I send rapidshit a DMCA notice and before they can even respond to it I have 5 new infringements already up or after they take care of it.... (right) Someone just uploads it again under a different file name/ or encoding. I'm sick... I'm tired and I just want to do SOMETHING to get the ball rolling and take care of this issue once and for all. Why are we not going after the actual endusers that are uploading the content in the first place? Porn company's directly suiting some snot nosed shit directly would make the news...

seeric · 08-19-2007, 04:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VG.Content

A1rek can attest to the fact that I have many things in motion that WILL make a difference. I strongly encourage anyone that has content that is in violation take notice and be prepared to commit to the steps to do something.

Anyone else that wants to help people will be needed for various parts of what is going on.

If you have any questions at all please get me on ICQ and I can give you more information. I don't feel proper giving out any information as to the legal steps of this as people associated are reading this right now.

Absolutely.

VG, Raw Alex, and Server Genius so far are undoubtedly three of the biggest advocates and supporters so far. These guys are way intelligent on this subject and they have some serious things in the works.

seeric · 08-19-2007, 04:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gerco

I love the idea of a central board where we post copyright issues. Publicly outing company's is really the only true way of getting things done. But take is a step further and get a good law firm behind it also, so once the contents owners finds out about the infringement, they can simply do something about it.

I'm tired of sending out DMCA notices. They cost me time and money, to remove something that has already cost me money. It's time to sue and start making some of this back.

Hell, I send rapidshit a DMCA notice and before they can even respond to it I have 5 new infringements already up or after they take care of it.... (right) Someone just uploads it again under a different file name/ or encoding. I'm sick... I'm tired and I just want to do SOMETHING to get the ball rolling and take care of this issue once and for all. Why are we not going after the actual endusers that are uploading the content in the first place? Porn company's directly suiting some snot nosed shit directly would make the news...

www.antipiracyboard.com

not a webmaster board. strictly about piracy.

tony286 · 08-19-2007, 04:51 PM

Ron some of these guys are starting to do processing, what is Visa usa and eu's regs on this?

cranki · 08-19-2007, 05:04 PM

bookmarked. this is going to be interesting...

jscott · 08-19-2007, 05:27 PM

my vote for thread of the year goes to this thread, great thinking Ron and VG and everyone

bump for thread of the year

starpimps · 08-19-2007, 05:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pr0

talk...talk....talk talk talk talk

thats all anyone ever does

& im gettin sick of hearing about torrents

people sophisticated enough to use torrents & get what they want, will always be thieves, can't stop the spread

torrents are easy as hell to you.
you do have to be slightly above completely fucking dumb to use them

Matt 26z · 08-19-2007, 05:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RonC

You need to attack them like the Spam Groups did on spammers. They went after the backbone providers (Level 3, Sprint, ATT etc). If you could get 7 out of 10 of the major providers to blackhole them they are dead.

That's a damn good idea. I can't believe the multi-million dollar efforts of the RIAA and MPAA never thought of that!

Brujah · 08-19-2007, 05:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt 26z

That's a damn good idea. I can't believe the multi-million dollar efforts of the RIAA and MPAA never thought of that!

You've fallen into the trap that their money makes them more intelligent. One thing's certain, do nothing and you get nothing. There's no harm in taking a crack at it.

Abbie · 08-19-2007, 06:06 PM

I don't think anyone has brought up the Hague Convention in this thread. Don't think that the DMCA is not enforcable in other countries. We've used it several times with success. While not every country is a part of the Hague, many are. There are over 60 countries involved to date.

I can't post links yet, but simply google "hague convention" and "copyright laws". The Hague covers things such as international custody battles, copyright issues, and so much more.

jono · 08-20-2007, 05:26 AM

We're happy to be "represented" on any filing.

Gerco · 08-20-2007, 05:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A1R3K

www.antipiracyboard.com

not a webmaster board. strictly about piracy.

Bookmarked.

Klen · 08-20-2007, 06:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WiredGuy

I wonder if this would work against sites like ThePirateBay.org. The RIAA/MPAA couldn't shut them down, they laugh at C&D's from companies like Microsoft. These sites really evade the law to the t, if these major firms couldn't shut them down, I somewhat have my doubts we can do it.
WG

Actualy howmuch i see those torrents which are complained by microsoft are removed,so i belive if you nicely ask torrents will be removed.

Bake · 08-20-2007, 06:24 AM

I like this thread

WiredGuy · 08-20-2007, 06:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KlenTelaris

Actualy howmuch i see those torrents which are complained by microsoft are removed,so i belive if you nicely ask torrents will be removed.

I'm sure a politely written remove request will work much better.
WG

Klen · 08-20-2007, 07:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WiredGuy

I'm sure a politely written remove request will work much better.
WG

Well howmuch i see most of those request for removal are legal threats so normaly they are pissed off and they dont want to remove content.

Spudstr · 08-20-2007, 07:09 AM

If you read the DMCA law backbone providers/ISP are not liable for the data transmitted through their network. Sadly your DMCA's will be ignored.

quantum-x · 08-20-2007, 07:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CamWithHer

I don't think anyone has brought up the Hague Convention in this thread. Don't think that the DMCA is not enforcable in other countries. We've used it several times with success. While not every country is a part of the Hague, many are. There are over 60 countries involved to date.

I can't post links yet, but simply google "hague convention" and "copyright laws". The Hague covers things such as international custody battles, copyright issues, and so much more.

The DMCA is not enforceable in any other country outside of US jurisdiction, BUT almost all countries have some form of copyright law, so that can be used, obviously.

Just depends on who your lawyers are, if they have multinational offices, if you've got the $$$ to drop, and if the person on the other end knows where they stand.

BTW guys, before you go DMCA crazy, remember - if you lodge a phoney / fake / incomplete / poor DMCA - you can get hit back in return and be fucked just as hard or harder.

stickyfingerz · 08-20-2007, 07:44 AM

Sorry but the only way to stop piracy and make any sort of dent is to secure the content they are stealing. So you stop torrents (arent newsgroups still up and pumping no one stopped them?), then what happens when within 3 to 5 years everyone starts moving to fiber, or cable upload speeds increase dramatically.

My upload speed has increased over 5 times what it was in 2001. So you get people trading directly over instant messengers etc. Then how do you stop that? Someone will make a program that works off the instant messengers and connects people via a search utility or something and torrents will no longer matter.

People will ALWAYS find a way. The only way to slow it down is by the adult industry developing a secure content delivery system. Mainstream does it. Why cant we? How bout Silverlight? Sure sure anything on anyones screen can be stolen. There has to be an industry wide change to stop it. Its like talking to the wind I think though. If Microsoft, the Riaa, and the mpaa cant stop torrent sites can we?

quantum-x · 08-20-2007, 07:54 AM

A1REK - hit me up on ICQ: 52779009
Got something you might be very interested in.

Nubiles · 08-20-2007, 08:55 AM

Ron makes a great post. We need to make a list of all the torents, which backbone they are using and then we can all start contacting their abuse departments of the providers.

quantum-x · 08-20-2007, 09:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drunkspringbreakgirls

Ron makes a great post. We need to make a list of all the torents, which backbone they are using and then we can all start contacting their abuse departments of the providers.

Won't Do Shit.

And it's not their fucking fault, anyhow.

That's like getting Tmobile to shutdown your cell phone access because you sell drugs.

In fact, it's even more stupid that that.

It's like getting a roadblock setup on a highway to prevent you driving past because you steal lollies.

And it's STILL more stupid than that..

Stopping torrents is NOT the solution.

seeric · 08-20-2007, 10:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by quantum-x

A1REK - hit me up on ICQ: 52779009
Got something you might be very interested in.

coolios. hitting you up now.

fyi - an association is not the poison dipped dagger to end all be all to piracy.

its a start.

we have to bite this off in pieces or people are going to choke on the whole pie trying to eat it at once.

»Rob Content« · 08-20-2007, 10:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stickyfingerz

Sorry but the only way to stop piracy and make any sort of dent is to secure the content they are stealing. So you stop torrents (arent newsgroups still up and pumping no one stopped them?), then what happens when within 3 to 5 years everyone starts moving to fiber, or cable upload speeds increase dramatically.

My upload speed has increased over 5 times what it was in 2001. So you get people trading directly over instant messengers etc. Then how do you stop that? Someone will make a program that works off the instant messengers and connects people via a search utility or something and torrents will no longer matter.

People will ALWAYS find a way. The only way to slow it down is by the adult industry developing a secure content delivery system. Mainstream does it. Why cant we? How bout Silverlight? Sure sure anything on anyones screen can be stolen. There has to be an industry wide change to stop it. Its like talking to the wind I think though. If Microsoft, the Riaa, and the mpaa cant stop torrent sites can we?

Oh so very wrong, wait and see what happens next.

»Rob Content« · 08-20-2007, 10:53 AM

Hi Ron don't forget about me today ;)

Brad Mitchell · 08-20-2007, 11:10 AM

Great thread everybody. Thanks to all that have been contributing, I feel like this has brought me up to date on the subject.

Brad

seeric · 08-20-2007, 12:26 PM

this thread is good for conversations sake. back to the top.

hardcoreblogger · 08-20-2007, 12:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VG.Content

Hi Ron don't forget about me today ;)

wish ya good luck, mate

Snake Doctor · 08-20-2007, 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WiredGuy

I wonder if this would work against sites like ThePirateBay.org. The RIAA/MPAA couldn't shut them down, they laugh at C&D's from companies like Microsoft. These sites really evade the law to the t, if these major firms couldn't shut them down, I somewhat have my doubts we can do it.
WG

If their connection to the backbone is severed they can have all the legal protection they want, but nobody will be able to connect to them.

Spudstr · 08-20-2007, 01:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lenny2

If their connection to the backbone is severed they can have all the legal protection they want, but nobody will be able to connect to them.

Backbone providers are not liable for the data that passes through them. In short if piratebay is doing their own routing or using non us-ip space they are the end user ISP that gets the DMCA's. providers such as sprint and such that deliver ip transit don't care nor are liable. since they can't monitor everything that goes across their network they are safe/excluded per the DMCA.. i think its section f or e?

seeric · 08-20-2007, 01:50 PM

WG

there are some pretty serious laws being lobbied through congress right now that are designed to clear up that little loophole that these people operate under. the mpaa and riaa have worked tirelessly to push some laws through that could cripple these kind of networks. we as people who depend on these laws to help us should pray to whatever gods we serve that they are passed by congress. it will make it all the more easier to get our stuff off of their networks for good.

lets hope.

ElConquistador · 08-20-2007, 01:56 PM

TorrentCash.com

Whois
Name Server: NS1.BRAINCASH.COM
Name Server: NS2.BRAINCASH.COM

seeric · 08-20-2007, 02:58 PM

oh my oh my

stickyfingerz · 08-20-2007, 03:01 PM

http://www.kazaa.com/us/index.htm Still up...

In a highly publicized decision in 2005, the U.S. Supreme Court ruled that the Grokster organization could be sued for copyright infringement. However, the Grokster application remains available for public downloads.

P2P Networks Supported by iMesh:

1. FastTrack
2. Gnutella - with version 5 iMesh client only
3. ED2K (eDonkey) - with version 5 iMesh client only All still up

Newsgroups

Quote:

Why newsgroups? Why not websites?

Money. It's as simple as that -- newsgroups are free and websites cost money. A website requires a centralized server that handles all user requests, and thus to host a pornography website costs a lot of $$ to handle all of the traffic. However, newsgroups are a distributed system -- news is transmitted to various ISP's, and stored on the ISP's computers. It's like each ISP has a little piece of the content on it, and this minimizes costs significantly.

Most adult websites charge a fee, either monthly or yearly. Some claim to be free, but usually have some trick associated with them that requires use of your credit card for "verification" purposes! Newsgroups are free, and so is BinaryVortex.

still up and running. Running a loooong time.

password sharing sites... Still running...

ftp sharing.... still running....

Direct connect neo modus..... Still up

Warez sites still running...

Torrents... Stilll running....

So will stopping torrents stop piracy?? nope..

tomhospital · 09-10-2007, 07:47 AM

I'm trying to find the pm function on this board, sadly unsuccessfully....

I've got large amounts of information about actions against torrent sites and legal techniques employed in the US and Europe. I'm prepared to discuss this pro bono (or is that pro boner ;) )with whoever is co-ordinating your anti-piracy project. email: [email protected]

RawAlex · 09-10-2007, 08:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spudstr

Backbone providers are not liable for the data that passes through them. In short if piratebay is doing their own routing or using non us-ip space they are the end user ISP that gets the DMCA's. providers such as sprint and such that deliver ip transit don't care nor are liable. since they can't monitor everything that goes across their network they are safe/excluded per the DMCA.. i think its section f or e?

Supdstr, technically, any and all parties providing any connectivity in any manner could be liable. Because DMCA is a fairly poorly written law, if you are based in the US if you send a DMCA to everyone including your own ISP (where you are connecting to the net), they could be found liable for providing access. It is doubtful, I don't think it would fly in court, but there is no definition of distance or restriction on hosts or service providers. Essentially, anyone in the chain that could have stopped the copyright violation but did not could be considered liable themselves.

Most of the europe to america transit is provided by american companies. They would likely take action, especially if (as RonC suggested) they were buried under a pile of DMCA notices, and that the pile was replenished on a regular basis with more and more DMCA notices.

It should be noted as well that european IP blocks are all issued by RIPE in the Netherlands, which may also be a great place to hit up. There are plenty of options on how to mount an agressive campaign on the issue.

08-19-2007, 03:12 PM	#53
ServerGenius Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Amsterdam Posts: 9,377	Don't mean to hijack this thread....but since it's related to this subject I hope you don't mind me dropping a link to another thread http://www.gofuckyourself.com/showthread.php?t=761731 __________________ \| http://www.sinnerscash.com/ \| ICQ: 370820 \| Skype: SinnersCash \| AdultWhosWho \|

08-19-2007, 03:44 PM	#59
jonesonyou Confirmed User Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Lincoln, NE Posts: 3,853	Thanks for up to date knowledge. Let us know when it is time what to do. __________________ Completely Real Amateur girls doing awesome things! Signup to promote Nebraskacoeds Today! Hit me up on ICQ/AIM 473324556/jasonnecoeds for exclusive content to promote with! And any ?'s

08-19-2007, 03:48 PM	#62
jonesonyou Confirmed User Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Lincoln, NE Posts: 3,853	Thanks for up to date knowledge. Let us know when it is time what to do. __________________ Completely Real Amateur girls doing awesome things! Signup to promote Nebraskacoeds Today! Hit me up on ICQ/AIM 473324556/jasonnecoeds for exclusive content to promote with! And any ?'s

08-19-2007, 04:16 PM	#63
»Rob Content« Confirmed User Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 4,348	A1rek can attest to the fact that I have many things in motion that WILL make a difference. I strongly encourage anyone that has content that is in violation take notice and be prepared to commit to the steps to do something. Anyone else that wants to help people will be needed for various parts of what is going on. If you have any questions at all please get me on ICQ and I can give you more information. I don't feel proper giving out any information as to the legal steps of this as people associated are reading this right now. __________________ 80% Revshare or 30$ PPS on $1 trials: 200 Niches = Vidz.com Galleries / FLVs / Embeds 3 & 5mins FLVs \| RSS & Tube Feeds \| Matching Thumbs \| FLV Browser & Exporter \| No Prechecked Xsales >> Mobile Redirection Script: mobile.vidz.com also paying 80% net Lifetime << ICQ: 198-394-557 ICQ - 436 795 438 E-mail rob /@/ cool-content dotcom

08-19-2007, 05:27 PM	#70
jscott jscizzle Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Taipei Posts: 25,198	my vote for thread of the year goes to this thread, great thinking Ron and VG and everyone bump for thread of the year __________________ “If you think tough men are dangerous, wait until you see what weak men are capable of.” —Jordan B. Peterson Listen to Pomp tell why is Bitcoin important

08-19-2007, 03:48 PM	#61
RawAlex So Fucking Banned Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: In a house. Posts: 9,465	Eman, I think to some extent that RIAA and MPAA have tried to avoid playing whack-a-mole with the torrent sites. They have had major successes inside the US, to the point where there appears to be no torrent or torrent guide sites operating in the US, and they certainly don't last long if they pop up. The torrent sites are down to hiding out in remote places hoping to get enough steps between themselves and responsible companies. I would be truly interested to hear what a company like Sprint would have to say face to this issue.

08-19-2007, 04:51 PM	#68
tony286 lurker Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: atlanta Posts: 57,021	Ron some of these guys are starting to do processing, what is Visa usa and eu's regs on this?

08-19-2007, 05:04 PM	#69
cranki Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Café del Mar Posts: 5,162	bookmarked. this is going to be interesting...

08-19-2007, 06:06 PM	#74
Abbie Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 1,004	I don't think anyone has brought up the Hague Convention in this thread. Don't think that the DMCA is not enforcable in other countries. We've used it several times with success. While not every country is a part of the Hague, many are. There are over 60 countries involved to date. I can't post links yet, but simply google "hague convention" and "copyright laws". The Hague covers things such as international custody battles, copyright issues, and so much more.

08-20-2007, 05:26 AM	#75
jono Confirmed User Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: The Bar Posts: 617	We're happy to be "represented" on any filing. __________________ Web: http://www.K8TIE.com Email: gfy[at]k8tie.com ICQ: 28-638-063

08-20-2007, 06:24 AM	#78
Bake Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Outback of bumfuck Aussie Posts: 5,411	I like this thread __________________ Buy great domains from drunken burned out old webmaster CHEAP bullseyeporn.com art-met.com and more. Learn how to make a easy extra $500 per week

08-20-2007, 07:09 AM	#81
Spudstr Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: In a Tater Patch Posts: 2,321	If you read the DMCA law backbone providers/ISP are not liable for the data transmitted through their network. Sadly your DMCA's will be ignored. __________________ Managed Hosting - Colocation - Network Services Yellow Fiber Networks icq: 19876563

08-20-2007, 07:44 AM	#83
stickyfingerz Doin fine Industry Role: Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 24,984	Sorry but the only way to stop piracy and make any sort of dent is to secure the content they are stealing. So you stop torrents (arent newsgroups still up and pumping no one stopped them?), then what happens when within 3 to 5 years everyone starts moving to fiber, or cable upload speeds increase dramatically. My upload speed has increased over 5 times what it was in 2001. So you get people trading directly over instant messengers etc. Then how do you stop that? Someone will make a program that works off the instant messengers and connects people via a search utility or something and torrents will no longer matter. People will ALWAYS find a way. The only way to slow it down is by the adult industry developing a secure content delivery system. Mainstream does it. Why cant we? How bout Silverlight? Sure sure anything on anyones screen can be stolen. There has to be an industry wide change to stop it. Its like talking to the wind I think though. If Microsoft, the Riaa, and the mpaa cant stop torrent sites can we? Last edited by stickyfingerz; 08-20-2007 at 07:45 AM..

08-20-2007, 07:54 AM	#84
quantum-x Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: ICQ: 251425 Fr/Au/Ca Posts: 6,863	A1REK - hit me up on ICQ: 52779009 Got something you might be very interested in.

08-20-2007, 08:55 AM	#85
Nubiles Confirmed User Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Tempe, AZ Posts: 1,496	Ron makes a great post. We need to make a list of all the torents, which backbone they are using and then we can all start contacting their abuse departments of the providers. __________________ NUBILES.NET : Hosted galleries with thumbs and descriptions \| nn galleries \| Hosted free sites \| 3 new girls shot each week \| Icq 143674274

08-20-2007, 10:53 AM	#89
»Rob Content« Confirmed User Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 4,348	Hi Ron don't forget about me today ;) __________________ 80% Revshare or 30$ PPS on $1 trials: 200 Niches = Vidz.com Galleries / FLVs / Embeds 3 & 5mins FLVs \| RSS & Tube Feeds \| Matching Thumbs \| FLV Browser & Exporter \| No Prechecked Xsales >> Mobile Redirection Script: mobile.vidz.com also paying 80% net Lifetime << ICQ: 198-394-557 ICQ - 436 795 438 E-mail rob /@/ cool-content dotcom

08-20-2007, 11:10 AM	#90
Brad Mitchell Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Southfield, MI Posts: 9,812	Great thread everybody. Thanks to all that have been contributing, I feel like this has brought me up to date on the subject. Brad __________________ President at MojoHost \| brad at mojohost dot com \| Skype MojoHostBrad 71 industry awards for hosting and professional excellence since 1999

08-20-2007, 12:26 PM	#91
seeric .......... Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: .......... Posts: 41,917	this thread is good for conversations sake. back to the top.

08-20-2007, 01:50 PM	#95
seeric .......... Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: .......... Posts: 41,917	WG there are some pretty serious laws being lobbied through congress right now that are designed to clear up that little loophole that these people operate under. the mpaa and riaa have worked tirelessly to push some laws through that could cripple these kind of networks. we as people who depend on these laws to help us should pray to whatever gods we serve that they are passed by congress. it will make it all the more easier to get our stuff off of their networks for good. lets hope.

08-20-2007, 01:56 PM	#96
ElConquistador Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: West Coast Posts: 520	TorrentCash.com Whois Name Server: NS1.BRAINCASH.COM Name Server: NS2.BRAINCASH.COM

08-20-2007, 02:58 PM	#97
seeric .......... Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: .......... Posts: 41,917	oh my oh my

09-10-2007, 07:47 AM	#99
tomhospital Registered User Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 1	I'm trying to find the pm function on this board, sadly unsuccessfully.... I've got large amounts of information about actions against torrent sites and legal techniques employed in the US and Europe. I'm prepared to discuss this pro bono (or is that pro boner ;) )with whoever is co-ordinating your anti-piracy project. email: [email protected]