Sicko, I saw it...My opinion on it! - Page 2 - GoFuckYourself.com

JFK · 07-04-2007, 11:43 AM

Fitty Sickos

Brad · 07-04-2007, 11:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by baddog

How about the fact that I was there?

How about the fact that Haight-Ashbury lasted about three years before it became worse than it had ever been?

How about the fact that the tourists never got out of their fucking cars when they drove thru the Haight? The only money they spent there was the occasional quarter when they would buy a Haight-Ashbury Free Press or Berkley Barb from one of the hippies hawking them on every street corner.

Good enough?

Or, how about the fact that only the tourists could afford to go to shows at the Fillmore or the Avalon or afford the expensive goods sold within the district. It quickly turned into a tourist haven where the tourists supported the culture to a large extent. The fact that hippie culture died doesn't have any bearing on my argument. The point remains that a large number of people can effect change. If you were there then you experienced this first hand.

Axeman · 07-04-2007, 11:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by baddog

How about the fact that I was there?

How about the fact that Haight-Ashbury lasted about three years before it became worse than it had ever been?

How about the fact that the tourists never got out of their fucking cars when they drove thru the Haight? The only money they spent there was the occasional quarter when they would buy a Haight-Ashbury Free Press or Berkley Barb from one of the hippies hawking them on every street corner.

Good enough?

Much better than your previous posts yes. At least you offer an explanation and your reasoning for disagreeing with Brad. Whether its right thats for you two to argue about. But if you're going to disagree with a view, its best to offer your counter reasoning to make yourself sound somewhat educated and not just an ignorant fool.

baddog · 07-04-2007, 12:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adult Lounge - Brad

Or, how about the fact that only the tourists could afford to go to shows at the Fillmore or the Avalon or afford the expensive goods sold within the district.

The Fillmore and Avalon were not on Haight or Ashbury, so not really relevant. They were not even close. Try the other side of the park. Several miles away. I don't know what you think was being sold on Haight-Ashbury, but the most expensive item was probably a hit of $5 acid.

If you think Haight-Ashbury made San Francisco, you have it backwards. The liberal attitude of San Francisco allowed Haight-Ashbury to exist.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Axeman

Much better than your previous posts yes. At least you offer an explanation and your reasoning for disagreeing with Brad. Whether its right thats for you two to argue about. But if you're going to disagree with a view, its best to offer your counter reasoning to make yourself sound somewhat educated and not just an ignorant fool.

When kids start suggesting that they have some idea of what was happening in MY youth, then I prefer to let them explain how it is they know more about it than I do.

Quagmire · 07-04-2007, 12:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by directfiesta

You need to contact these people urgently, to let them know of their mistake :

http://www.google.ca/search?q=sicko&...ient=firefox-a
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0386032/
http://movies.yahoo.com/movie/1809723348/info
Sicko Is Socko - TIME
Richard Corliss takes a look at Michael Moore's latest, controversial documentary
http://movies.aol.com/movie/sicko/26778/main

Geeez, all this idiots are wrong calling it a " documentary " ...

I can take a big shit on your kitchen table and call it a cupcake, are you going to eat it?

Brad · 07-04-2007, 12:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by baddog

The Fillmore and Avalon were not on Haight or Ashbury, so not really relevant. They were not even close. Try the other side of the park. Several miles away. I don't know what you think was being sold on Haight-Ashbury, but the most expensive item was probably a hit of $5 acid.

If you think Haight-Ashbury made San Francisco, you have it backwards. The liberal attitude of San Francisco allowed Haight-Ashbury to exist.

I had to laugh at this. I think you are misunderstanding me. First, I have no interest in arguing about Haight-Ashbury. If you think I think that SF is defined or put on the map because of the hippies then you are grossly underestimating my understanding of things. I could care less about the area, my point is that the are was affected by numbers, that's it. Obviously, having lived there you know more about it than I do, I'm not debating that...it served merely as an example.

By the way though, one of the main reasons that those two venues thrived was because of the emergence of psychedelic rock music. They are tied to the Haight-Ashbury area even though they do not exist in it. Much like the Buffalo Bills are still a part of Buffalo even though the stadium is not downtown.

Anyways, lets get back to the main debate...and forget about SF, hippies, acid, and psychedelic rock for a minute.

Brad · 07-04-2007, 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by baddog

When kids start suggesting that they have some idea of what was happening in MY youth, then I prefer to let them explain how it is they know more about it than I do.

Hindsight is 20-20 my friend. We know more about Rome than the Romans did.

But...once again this is not a discussion about SF or hippies or anything of the sort. I was merely pointing out that there is power in numbers, which you laughed at me for.

I'd like to hear an example to the contrary...where numbers had no impact on the outcome of events.

J. Falcon · 07-04-2007, 12:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quagmire

I can take a big shit on your kitchen table and call it a cupcake, are you going to eat it?

Oh thats a great point, your intelligence and discussion skills are astounding.

Tom_PM · 07-04-2007, 12:51 PM

I hope Massachusetts plans to unveil some amazing health insurance plan for people who work but who's jobs dont provide it, and who can't afford "just" a few hundred dollars a month.
I mean think about it. For those under like $20k per year, they can get medicaid or some other government "insurance".. so this new law there (or proposal) is going to hit the "working poor" right in the wallets. So I truly hope they plan to unveil some amazing new affordable health insurance mandates too!

Quagmire · 07-04-2007, 12:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by J. Falcon

Oh thats a great point, your intelligence and discussion skills are astounding.

Why, because I'm not going to waste my time arguing about whether Sicko is a documentary or not?

You claim to be a 'professional adult copywriter' so you must know the difference between an editorialized piece and documented fact, right?

J. Falcon · 07-04-2007, 12:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quagmire

Why, because I'm not going to waste my time arguing about whether Sicko is a documentary or not?

You claim to be a 'professional adult copywriter' so you must know the difference between an editorialized piece and documented fact, right?

What documentaries arent editorialized?

baddog · 07-04-2007, 01:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adult Lounge - Brad

Hindsight is 20-20 my friend. We know more about Rome than the Romans did.

But...once again this is not a discussion about SF or hippies or anything of the sort. I was merely pointing out that there is power in numbers, which you laughed at me for.

Just how many hippies do you think there were in SF anyway?

Quote:

I'd like to hear an example to the contrary...where numbers had no impact on the outcome of events.

I believe you already mentioned one . . . China.

How about North Korea for another?

How about any communist country?

Tom_PM · 07-04-2007, 01:05 PM

Refers to film or video that explores a subject in a way the public expects to be factual and accurate. Documentaries may be balanced by including various viewpoints, or they may be subjective, offering the viewpoint and impressions of one producer.

Quagmire · 07-04-2007, 01:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PR_Tom

Refers to film or video that explores a subject in a way the public expects to be factual and accurate. Documentaries may be balanced by including various viewpoints, or they may be subjective, offering the viewpoint and impressions of one producer.

documentary

adjective
1. relating to or consisting of or derived from documents
2. emphasizing or expressing things as perceived without distortion of personal feelings, insertion of fictional matter, or interpretation; "objective art" [syn: objective]

noun
1. a film or TV program presenting the facts about a person or event

Brad · 07-04-2007, 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by baddog

Just how many hippies do you think there were in SF anyway?

I believe you already mentioned one . . . China.

How about North Korea for another?

How about any communist country?

I doubt there would be any good estimate of the number of people there, but there were enough people to influence and in fact define the culture of the area.

Sure China is an example, and many communist or fascist regimes have used the power of numbers to help their cause along. It happened in Germany as well. So then we agree now that there is power in numbers?

This does not apply to only communist countries, population numbers can effect change in a democracy as well. Take a look at the situation in Quebec (regarding separation) for one example of this. Or strikes across North America (such as the Winnipeg General Strike) for many others.

Tom_PM · 07-04-2007, 01:30 PM

Communism, hippies, definitions.. All inspired by a health care film!!

Done and done!

Brad · 07-04-2007, 01:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PR_Tom

Communism, hippies, definitions.. All inspired by a health care film!!

Done and done!

lol. we do love our tangents don't we.

CDSmith · 07-04-2007, 01:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikesouth

When I spoke with my Canadian friends, one of whom works in IT in Canadian hospitals I got a story that sounded very similar. He said one of the ongoing problems in Canada was people going to emergency rooms for problems that aren't emergencies. They do it there because it's convenient. We have the same problem here but for a different reason. Despite what Michael Moore would have you believe you cannot be turned away from a public hospital here in America, only a private one. Lot's o people know this and take advantage of it knowing they will never have to pay, so when little Leroy gets the croup, mom takes him to the emergency room of the nearest public hospital where he gets treated for free for a non emergency.

One proposal I came up with years ago was for a small user fee for non-emergency visits to the ER. Still gives people the service, but for say a $10 fee if their situation is deemed non-emergency. If they don't want to pay the fee they can go to their regular doctor or a walk-in clinic. That's what they're there for.

It would serve to curtail ER abuse, and would also bring extra revenue into the system.

Better that than going to a 2-tier system like some idiots are spouting in favor of.

baddog · 07-04-2007, 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adult Lounge - Brad

I doubt there would be any good estimate of the number of people there, but there were enough people to influence and in fact define the culture of the area.

at least enough to make you think so anyway

Quote:

Sure China is an example, and many communist or fascist regimes have used the power of numbers to help their cause along. It happened in Germany as well. So then we agree now that there is power in numbers?

The power is in the guns, not the number of people

Quote:

Or strikes across North America (such as the Winnipeg General Strike) for many others.

Guess I missed that . . . across North America or across Winnipeg?

Brad · 07-04-2007, 02:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by baddog

at least enough to make you think so anyway

The power is in the guns, not the number of people

Guess I missed that . . . across North America or across Winnipeg?

Well, you are entitled to your opinion, but seeing as how that area of SF is still known as one of the birthplaces of hippie culture 30 or 40 years later I think there were enough people to have a lasting effect.

Power is and will always be in the numbers. Sure guns help, but you can't build an economy on guns but you sure as hell can destroy one with them. Call me in 10 years when China takes over and we'll discuss it then.

As far as the strikes are concerned, I am talking about all across North America. The Winnipeg General Strike was a huge strike that I used as an example because it was the first one that came to mind. With roughly 35,000 people involved, it involved the overwhelming majority of the working population in the city. Pretty impressive what a large group of people can accomplish.

Funbrunette · 07-04-2007, 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by baddog

And you are speaking on behalf of the Funbrunette's out there?

I'm sorry I'm quite unique.

nation-x · 07-04-2007, 05:36 PM

All news stories are tainted by the editors belief system and logic patterns... That fact in play... Moore is presenting a documentary based on his view of things... a simple truth is that people cloud the point by pointing out every little detail in things... The basic fact about a skunk is that it will spray you if you fuck with it. The fact that it is black and white and rather innocent looking is of no consequence.

I have noticed that people tend to get caught up in the details when it comes to everything... it's annoying to me... Most shit is very simple... why do people waste fucking time and effort to cloud the basics of a thing. I have noticed this about all kinds of different tasks that people undertake are doomed to the same fate because they overcomplicate it. It's like a virus.

Here are some basic facts about life in the US.

Alot of poor people are fucking lazy and don't make decisions for themselves... therefore they are stuck in their miserable fucking lives for a single reason... their own lack of character. Simple fucking fact.

Alot of people want handouts... fom the crackhead to the president.

We live in a culture of negativity. The majority of people are afraid to meet people from different cultures, backgrounds, interests (hobbies), industries... etc. When they do meet new people they are secretly suspicious of them and unwilling to be genuine. In my opinion... if you have a generally negative view of other people then you probably have a generally negative view of yourself and your decisions will reflect that negative outlook.

Television and religion have a choke hold on our society. From a young age the majority of americans are conditioned by television to mold a certain belief system and "fit in". Religion is the icing on the cake... I read a book once that was about sales techniques in a group environment. The first chapter of the book was about gaining the prospects trust through behavioral modeling. The "we are alike" con. Most people are followers... The media is the light and the way. This is the biggest threat to our society in my opinion... mixing religion and politics is poison.

Porn Farmer · 07-04-2007, 06:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quagmire

No it isn't. He's pitching his own biased opinion which excludes it from the documentary label. You can't editorialize a subject and call it a documentary.

Quote:

Originally Posted by polle54

No it works with an issue that exist but there are used fictive situations and the issue is not looked at objectively.

Hence it is not a documentary - or at least not a good one.

but it's a good movie that enlighten some real interesting things.

Those who think a documentary should be 'objective' - which is an impossiblity - do not understand the nature of documentary filmmaking.

Quote:

Documentary texts are supposedly those which aim to document reality, attempting veracity in their depiction of people, places and events. However, the process of mediation means that this is something of a oxymoron, it being impossible to re-present reality without constructing a narrative that may be fictional in places. Certainly, any images that are edited cannot claim to be wholly factual, they are the result of choices made by the photographer on the other end of the lens. Nonetheless, it is widely accepted that categories of media texts can be classed as non-fiction, that their aim is to reveal a version of reality that is less filtered and reconstructed than in a fiction text. Such texts are often constructed from a particular moral or political perspective, and cannot therefore claim to be objective. Other texts purport simply to record an event, although decisions made in post-production mean that actuality is edited, re-sequenced and artificially framed. The documentary maker generally establishes a thesis before starting the construction of their text, and the process of documentary-making can be simply the ratification of their idea. Perhaps, to misquote Eco, the objectivity of the text lies not in the origin but the destination?

The documentary genre has a range of purposes, from the simple selection and recording of events (a snapshot or unedited holiday video) to a polemic text that attempts to persuade the audience into a specific set of opinions (Bowling For Columbine). Audiences must identify that purpose early on and will therefore decode documentary texts differently to fictional narratives.

Modes of Documentary

In his 2001 book, Introduction to Documentary (Indiana University Press), Bill Nichols defines the following six modes of documentary

* The Poetic Mode ('reassembling fragments of the world', a transformation of historical material into a more abstract, lyrical form, usually associated with 1920s and modernist ideas)
* The Expository Mode ('direct address', social issues assembled into an argumentative frame, mediated by a voice-of-God narration, associated with 1920s-1930s, and some of the rhetoric and polemic surrounding WW2)
* The Observational Mode (as technology advanced by the 1960s and cameras became smaller and lighter, able to document life in a less intrusive manner, there is less control required over lighting etc, leaving the social actors free to act and the documentarists free to record without interacting with each other)
* The Participatory Mode (the encounter between film-maker and subject is recorded, as the film-maker actively engages with the situation they are documenting, asking questions of their subjects, sharing experiences with them. Heavily reliant on the honesty of witnesses)
* The Reflexive Mode (demonstrates consciousness of the process of reading documentary, and engages actively with the issues of realism and representation, acknowledging the presence of the viewer and the modality judgements they arrive at. Corresponds to critical theory of the 1980s)
* The Performative Mode (acknowledges the emotional and subjective aspects of documentary, and presents ideas as part of a context, having different meanings for different people, often autobiographical in nature)

These roughly correspond to developmental phases in the genre, when new generations of documentary makers have challenged the forms and conventions that have gone before, and re-invented what documentary means for them.

Porn Farmer · 07-04-2007, 06:44 PM

A bit more on documentary filmmaking:

Quote:

Film theorist Paul Rotha offers a more in-depth and analogous definition:

"Documentary defines not subject or style, but approach. It denies neither trained actors nor the advantages of staging. It justifies the use of every known technical artifice to gain its effect on the spectator....To the documentary director the appearance of things and people is only superficial. It is the meaning behind the thing and the significance underlying the person that occupy his attention....Documentary approach to cinema differs from that of story-film not in its disregard for craftsmanship, but in the purpose to which that craftsmanship is put. Documentary is a trade just as carpentry or pot-making. The pot-maker makes pots, and the documentarian documentaries."

12clicks · 07-04-2007, 06:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Funbrunette

Thumbs up!

There's 2 things I refuse to talk about or voice my opinion on, Religion and politics. However I will make an exception...This movie was a master piece! A harsh look at reality.

Sicko boldly and brilliantly challenges entrenched American attitudes about capitalism. Although some scenes are devastatingly heartbreaking and may bring you to tears (I'm a huge suck), Moore's sense of humour and ability to entertain are as strong as ever. He often combines laughter and tragedy in the same scene. While Moore always wears his views on his sleeve, he also takes a step back to let people tell their stories or allows historical clips to speak for themselves(those are FACTS). In the case of Richard Nixon, Moore happily says almost nothing, letting the former president be condemned completely by his own words.

The climax was a trip to Cuba. Moore is often criticized for exaggerating or manipulating facts, but there is always so much truth at the heart of his films. Sicko shows Moore at his very best.

I'm hoping this will open eyes of people who have the power to make changes!

Kard63 · 07-04-2007, 06:52 PM

Prepare yourself to be bashed by redneck republican trash and schmucks who try to look confident and fancy themselves elite professionals while really wanting no more out of life than to be Reagan era yuppies.

directfiesta · 07-04-2007, 07:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 12clicks

07-04-2007, 11:43 AM	#51
JFK FUBAR the ORIGINATOR Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: FUBARLAND Posts: 67,374	Fitty Sickos __________________ FUBAR Webmasters - The FUBAR Times - FUBAR Webmasters Mobile - FUBARTV.XXX For promo opps contact jfk at fubarwebmasters dot com

07-04-2007, 12:51 PM	#59
Tom_PM Porn Meister Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 16,443	I hope Massachusetts plans to unveil some amazing health insurance plan for people who work but who's jobs dont provide it, and who can't afford "just" a few hundred dollars a month. I mean think about it. For those under like $20k per year, they can get medicaid or some other government "insurance".. so this new law there (or proposal) is going to hit the "working poor" right in the wallets. So I truly hope they plan to unveil some amazing new affordable health insurance mandates too! __________________ 43-922-863 Shut up and play your guitar.

07-04-2007, 01:05 PM	#63
Tom_PM Porn Meister Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 16,443	Refers to film or video that explores a subject in a way the public expects to be factual and accurate. Documentaries may be balanced by including various viewpoints, or they may be subjective, offering the viewpoint and impressions of one producer. __________________ 43-922-863 Shut up and play your guitar.

07-04-2007, 01:30 PM	#66
Tom_PM Porn Meister Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 16,443	Communism, hippies, definitions.. All inspired by a health care film!! Done and done! __________________ 43-922-863 Shut up and play your guitar.

07-04-2007, 06:52 PM	#76
Kard63 Confirmed User Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: 237 619 975 Posts: 8,944	Prepare yourself to be bashed by redneck republican trash and schmucks who try to look confident and fancy themselves elite professionals while really wanting no more out of life than to be Reagan era yuppies. __________________

07-04-2007, 05:36 PM	#72
nation-x Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Rock Hill, SC Posts: 5,370	All news stories are tainted by the editors belief system and logic patterns... That fact in play... Moore is presenting a documentary based on his view of things... a simple truth is that people cloud the point by pointing out every little detail in things... The basic fact about a skunk is that it will spray you if you fuck with it. The fact that it is black and white and rather innocent looking is of no consequence. I have noticed that people tend to get caught up in the details when it comes to everything... it's annoying to me... Most shit is very simple... why do people waste fucking time and effort to cloud the basics of a thing. I have noticed this about all kinds of different tasks that people undertake are doomed to the same fate because they overcomplicate it. It's like a virus. Here are some basic facts about life in the US. Alot of poor people are fucking lazy and don't make decisions for themselves... therefore they are stuck in their miserable fucking lives for a single reason... their own lack of character. Simple fucking fact. Alot of people want handouts... fom the crackhead to the president. We live in a culture of negativity. The majority of people are afraid to meet people from different cultures, backgrounds, interests (hobbies), industries... etc. When they do meet new people they are secretly suspicious of them and unwilling to be genuine. In my opinion... if you have a generally negative view of other people then you probably have a generally negative view of yourself and your decisions will reflect that negative outlook. Television and religion have a choke hold on our society. From a young age the majority of americans are conditioned by television to mold a certain belief system and "fit in". Religion is the icing on the cake... I read a book once that was about sales techniques in a group environment. The first chapter of the book was about gaining the prospects trust through behavioral modeling. The "we are alike" con. Most people are followers... The media is the light and the way. This is the biggest threat to our society in my opinion... mixing religion and politics is poison.