Universal healthcare poll - Page 2 - GoFuckYourself.com

Axeman · 06-21-2007, 06:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tony404

Read the book sick, actually the costs are much cheaper when the goverment runs it. The Chairman of united health care gave himself a half billion dollar bonus,the government doesnt give bonuses and other bullshit like Tv advertising,print. The Iraq war has been so expensive because they have been privatizing this war.

As posted above by another person this link shows you the per capita spent on health care by the governments of the America's.
http://www.who.int/whosis/database/c...nguage=english

Look who spent twice that of Canada..... Surprise Surprise

bl4h · 06-21-2007, 06:23 PM

I dont want to pay for all you fatties ...
We pay people not to work and get fat and have babies with welfare, and now you want us to pay for their bad health as well ?

Axeman · 06-21-2007, 06:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bl4h

I dont want to pay for all you fatties ...
We pay people not to work and get fat and have babies with welfare, and now you want us to pay for their bad health as well ?

You already pay twice that per person than that of Canada with your tax payers dollars and thats only for a fraction of your population.

Under the universal system you would be down 40% at least in money spent over time. There would be time where it would be more costly due to trying to get people that neglected their health due under the old system to get healthier and practicing preventative medicine.

People who say they don't want to pay for other people, you already do. In taxes you pay more than any other country per capita. In insurance costs you pay more every couple years in dues for every person in your HMO that got very sick and cost them more money then they planned for their 4th quarter profits.

MikeVega · 06-21-2007, 07:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike33

I haven't seen the movie yet. I look forward to it. Are there any stats on this phenomenon?

Likewise there are tons of Canadians who buy drugs in the US because they're too expensive in Canada.

Mike .. hit me up on ICQ when you get a chance.

Sausage · 06-21-2007, 07:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Axeman

The problem is in most countries the government works for the people because they fear getting tossed on their ass. In the US the government controls the people for the most part. Canada is getting closer to this as well.

I suppose you have a valid point there.

tony286 · 06-21-2007, 07:45 PM

Let me share another story with you, my Dad is a republican and he was always people going broke from health care its liberal bullshit. My Dad had started with a new company 5 months ago,did so well they had him interview for a management job ( my dad works in the ins industry).Well then the cancer came,he gets a call from his boss at the sales meeting we all prayed for you and in the next breath HR has to talk to you. Hr says we are putting you on short term disability(6 weeks) then your terminated and your health insurance is canceled you can cobra if you want. Now he is lucky he is being switched to my moms plan.Now in a family where the hubby only works, they are in a world of shit in the middle of cancer and God only knows what the cobra would of cost. This really opened his eyes.

Peaches · 06-21-2007, 08:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tony404

Let me share another story with you, my Dad is a republican and he was always people going broke from health care its liberal bullshit. My Dad had started with a new company 5 months ago,did so well they had him interview for a management job ( my dad works in the ins industry).Well then the cancer came,he gets a call from his boss at the sales meeting we all prayed for you and in the next breath HR has to talk to you. Hr says we are putting you on short term disability(6 weeks) then your terminated and your health insurance is canceled you can cobra if you want. Now he is lucky he is being switched to my moms plan.Now in a family where the hubby only works, they are in a world of shit in the middle of cancer and God only knows what the cobra would of cost. This really opened his eyes.

If there's a family where only the Dad works and the Dad is out of a job, then why can't the wife work then?

I am betting that his COBRA would have cost less than what they are going to pay out for his cancer treatment.

MikeVega · 06-21-2007, 08:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peaches

If there's a family where only the Dad works and the Dad is out of a job, then why can't the wife work then?

I am betting that his COBRA would have cost less than what they are going to pay out for his cancer treatment.

I'm amazed by this response because i know your not some young girl that doesn't know the ways of the world.

lets say his Mom hasn't worked in 5-10-15 years and has been raising kids and taking care of the house. she is in her 50's now. you think she can just run out and get a job that will not only pay all there bills but also allow her to take care of her sick husband. hell it took him 30-40 years to get to where they are in life, I'm sure she can run out with little to no work experience or skills and pick up right where he left off.

And yes the Cobra would be cheaper but if you are a middle class person living basically paycheck to paycheck like most middle class your not going to be able to afford the Cobra either. many families lose everything they've worked for because of that exact situation his parents are in.

Tony ... I wish your dad the best .. in most countries a man works all his life and comes down with an illness like that and his government and countrymen would make sure he doesn't lose what he's worked for and can get the treatment he needs without debt and worry.

tony286 · 06-21-2007, 08:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeVega

I'm amazed by this response because i know your not some young girl that doesn't know the ways of the world.

lets say his Mom hasn't worked in 5-10-15 years and has been raising kids and taking care of the house. she is in her 50's now. you think she can just run out and get a job that will not only pay all there bills but also allow her to take care of her sick husband. hell it took him 30-40 years to get to where they are in life, I'm sure she can run out with little to no work experience or skills and pick up right where he left off.

And yes the Cobra would be cheaper but if you are a middle class person living basically paycheck to paycheck like most middle class your not going to be able to afford the Cobra either. many families lose everything they've worked for because of that exact situation his parents are in.

Tony ... I wish your dad the best .. in most countries a man works all his life and comes down with an illness like that and his government and countrymen would make sure he doesn't lose what he's worked for and can get the treatment he needs without debt and worry.

Thanks Mike,your a good guy and very right.

Sausage · 06-21-2007, 08:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeVega

Tony ... I wish your dad the best .. in most countries a man works all his life and comes down with an illness like that and his government and countrymen would make sure he doesn't lose what he's worked for and can get the treatment he needs without debt and worry.

Its often said you can judge a society based on how they look after their elderly . Maybe western society is on the decline ?

onlymovies · 06-21-2007, 08:38 PM

You know what...i keep hearing about how taxes would have to be increased to bring universal healthcare to the USA, blah blah blah. And even though i don't want that ofcourse, if you think about it, with all the fucking high-ass healthcare rates i pay right now for my family, it would mostly likely come to being the same cost anyway. AND, no matter how much i currently spend right now as is, they still can deny me treatment on top of that...lol. Decisions by a CEO = Fucked....that's nothing new.

I can't give a true opinion as my research is very limited...ie; how much taxes would be increase, as compared to what i pay a month for health in it's current state, etc etc. Would be interesting to see...

onlymovies · 06-21-2007, 08:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sausage

Its often said you can judge a society based on how they look after their elderly . Maybe western society is on the decline ?

lol..maybe? US society health care for the elderly is so fucking disgusting that words can't even make light of it. I witness this first hand with my girls father and all the issues we went through for 4 years up until his death. The best insurance, didn't make a difference...ppo, hmo AND motion picture....they fucked him every which way and then fucked him so more. You guys have no idea.

We got a grade A lesson from the "school of hard knocks" on how the healthcare system works (at least in California). It's nasty, it's disgusting, and it's embarassing.

nwm · 06-21-2007, 09:09 PM

I get my health insurance through my wife's work. We just got married and previously I was her domestic partner. That made for interesting calls to HR & the insurance companies -- I basically had to stress that I wasn't gay.

Porn Farmer · 06-21-2007, 10:04 PM

Bumping to see if we can find one person who lives in a country with universal healthcare who thinks their country would be better off without it.

Surely they exist?

Sausage · 06-22-2007, 12:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by onlymovies

lol..maybe? US society health care for the elderly is so fucking disgusting that words can't even make light of it. I witness this first hand with my girls father and all the issues we went through for 4 years up until his death. The best insurance, didn't make a difference...ppo, hmo AND motion picture....they fucked him every which way and then fucked him so more. You guys have no idea.

We got a grade A lesson from the "school of hard knocks" on how the healthcare system works (at least in California). It's nasty, it's disgusting, and it's embarassing.

Really sorry to hear about that mate ... and hope things work out

I actually think 'sicko' has the potential to force a few changes due to public pressure. Even being an Aussie I was pretty shocked at what I saw on it.

pocketkangaroo · 06-22-2007, 12:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loryn-Adult.com

Are you kidding me with this shit?

In America no Doctor is going to say sorry, your insurance guy wants his bonus so you have to DIE!

Your statement proves my point, headline readers! The government crutch is always introduced by the use of fear! Sweetie I promise you if you ever have a life or death situation there are people who will do everything they can to get you your kidney, heart, liver whatever you need. There are plenty of private donation programs out there. I am an organ donor. I know there are horror stories about people not getting organs and such, but that happens even in countries with universal health care.

Not sure if you've ever had to make an extended stay in the hospital. Insurance companies will ALWAYS try to get you to stay less time, will always try to push against tests, and will always try and save a buck.

I've had the top of the line BlueCross/BlueShield insurance since college. I had to spend 2 nights in the hospital and the insurance company threatened to not pay for the 2nd night because they didn't feel it was necessary. I was just listening to what my doctors thought was best. It took a couple months of fighting with them to finally get them to pay for a portion of it.

I'm not saying I support national healthcare, but saying that insurance companies don't tell doctors what to do is just being blind to our current healthcare system.

pocketkangaroo · 06-22-2007, 12:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peaches

If there's a family where only the Dad works and the Dad is out of a job, then why can't the wife work then?

I am betting that his COBRA would have cost less than what they are going to pay out for his cancer treatment.

COBRA is only 18 months. On top of that, there isn't a health insurance company in the world who will accept someone who has cancer.

Porn Farmer · 06-22-2007, 12:51 AM

The far right loves fetuses but healthcare for a person thats already born?

Forget it.

Axeman · 06-22-2007, 02:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Porn Farmer

Bumping to see if we can find one person who lives in a country with universal healthcare who thinks their country would be better off without it.

Surely they exist?

I think the poll results from countries who have universal health care speaks volumes.

I would venture to guess most of them have systems that are not perfect yet they still wouldn't trade it in for the HMO system.

ZoneMaster · 06-22-2007, 02:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Axeman

I think the poll results from countries who have universal health care speaks volumes.

I would venture to guess most of them have systems that are not perfect yet they still wouldn't trade it in for the HMO system.

Agree, but yes - it's not surprising. I come from one of these countries and you are correct in that nothing is perfect - but would never dream of giving up that system. I've also lived in other countries with universal health care and they also provided an excellent service.

Probably the fundamental difference is tied to a profit element with HMO's - they exist to earn money and not surprising they try to maximize their bottom line - along with insurance companies.

It has probably already mentioned - but the main users of heathcare are the elderly and it is important that they get a good level of healthcare without having to concern themselves with money.

ADL Colin · 06-22-2007, 02:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheSenator

ADL Colin, galleriesx, Got Porn?, gregtx, Loryn-Adult.com, MakingItPay, spunkmaster, stickyfingerz

I am for universal health care. It is interesting to see who is not, I wonder what their reasons are?

I am in favor of smaller government in general. Shrink the military, shrink healthcare, shrink taxes, keep the roads. I am not a big fan of the government "protecting the people". I am in favor of people protecting themselves. Of course, this is not realizable 100%. we need some military, some healthcare (innoculations) but I would prefer that we have less than we have now. Not more.

So where does a person who wants to shrink the government make cuts? I'd say these are our top candidates for sure making up over 80% of the US budget.

(2006 budget)
Health and human services 23.1%
Social security 20.5%
Military 19.2%
Treasury 16.6%

Compare these same items to 1962 for kicks.
Military 47%
Social security 13%
Treasury 7.9%
Health and human services 3.3%

So yes, I'd shrink the military. I'd shrink healthcare. I'd raise the age of retirement. I'd definitely cut down over at the IRS.

Porn Farmer · 06-22-2007, 03:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Porn Farmer

Bumping to see if we can find one person who lives in a country with universal healthcare who thinks their country would be better off without it.

Surely they exist?

Still looking for this person.

Anyone?

OldJeff · 06-22-2007, 04:29 AM

A lot of people have posted in favor of universal health care using the point that they want doctors, not insurance companies making decisions.

It might work in some other countries, but the last thing I want is some far right slanted government (like we had for the first 6 years of W's admin) deciding that since the church says abortion is bad, and we should only teach abstinance that abortion and birth control are no longer covered by our health care system.

Even better, I do not want the "approved" and paid for proceedures and medications to be determined by which company sent the most money to the current administration's campaign.

I have dealt with the US Health care system on pretty much all level, as a welfare recipient as a child, as a soldier, as a HMO member, as a person without coverage, and as a person with a GOOD health care package.

I have never been denied treatment anywhere.

Yes most insurance companies suck to deal with, but dealing with the government ALWAYS sucks more.

ADL Colin · 06-22-2007, 04:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OldJeff

Yes most insurance companies suck to deal with, but dealing with the government ALWAYS sucks more.

Porn Farmer · 06-22-2007, 04:51 AM

Interesting map.

ADL Colin · 06-22-2007, 04:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Porn Farmer

Still looking for this person.

Anyone?

Ask 29 people on welfare if they want to get rid of the welfare system.

Results? 29 no, 0 yes.

ADL Colin · 06-22-2007, 04:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Porn Farmer

Interesting map.

Why? Cuz China, Russia, Saudi Arabia and Argentina all have some type of universal healthcare?

Porn Farmer · 06-22-2007, 04:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ADL Colin

Ask 29 people on welfare if they want to get rid of the welfare system.

Results? 29 no, 0 yes.

Nice straw man argument.

In reality, people see the value in the system, how it makes their society a better place and that it works better than the alternatives.

But I suppose you would have to live in a country that had it to understand that.

Porn Farmer · 06-22-2007, 04:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ADL Colin

Why? Cuz China, Russia, Saudi Arabia and Argentina all have some type of universal healthcare?

Yeah, its amazing the countries that can provide health care to all their citizens, even many in the second world.

Perhaps what is more amazing is some of the ones that can't.

ADL Colin · 06-22-2007, 06:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Porn Farmer

Nice straw man argument.

In reality, people see the value in the system, how it makes their society a better place and that it works better than the alternatives.

But I suppose you would have to live in a country that had it to understand that.

Hardly an argument. We here in the US call that humor. look it up ;-)

ADL Colin · 06-22-2007, 06:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Porn Farmer

Yeah, its amazing the countries that can provide health care to all their citizens, even many in the second world.

Perhaps what is more amazing is some of the ones that can't.

So a group of people (yeah, politicians) get together and demand that we pool our money to buy everyone else healthcare. Why not pool our money together and buy everyone an auto? Shouldn't a car be a 20th century right? I saw people wasting valuable time standing at the bus stop today. Decreases productivity for society. Imagine what we could do with socialized automobiles! They would be cheaper too. While we're at it let's socialize gasoline production. The government can take over exxon and conoco. Gasoline is a RIGHT!

Why stop there? We can have socialized food too. Let the government run big cafeterias. We can all show up whenever we are hungry and eat "for free". Surely some people can't afford to eat. This would make sure that no one goes hungry.

TheSenator · 06-22-2007, 06:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loryn-Adult.com

THANK YOU!!!!!!! Someone who gets it!

Why the fuck would anyone want the government to control anything else in your life?

LESS GOVERNMENT! And please NO ONE in America gets turned away for medical help. For God sakes illegal aliens get medical help all the time, and they know not to call a taxi, call an ambulance because it will get paid for. There are so many government assistant programs out there it is not even funny. People just don't use them because the "headline readers" say there is nothing out there for anyone and people just sit on their ass and believe that instead of going out and finding what they can do to help better their lives.

When I got into an accident when I was in my early 20's, getting away from the family and wanting to be on my own, I had no insurance and I got great medical care, plus I got assistance with the bills. I have had many friends that I have helped over the years in the same situation and got the same results.

I think once the government starts controlling that part of our lives, you will see the decrease of competition in the medical fields. Competition is great and it makes people work harder to find better cures for illnesses.

I can?t stand when people say out of one side of their mouth, I hate the government it is so corrupted, but out the other side of their mouth its the government should support me and pay for everything. Make up your mind, you either like the government or you don't.

The people are not stupid we can take care of ourselves and our families. And the people who are in this country who can't take care of themselves, there are several programs already out there for them. Nothing is perfect and NOTHING EVER WILL BE. But if you let the government have any more control over you, you will fuck yourself more than you could ever image. Once they get you to depend on them for things that you can take care of yourself, it?s hard to get away from it. Look what happen with welfare. It was designed to help, but instead people took advantage of it and ended up depending on it for life and not their own ability to succeed. It keeps people down, it doesn?t help motivate them to succeed and be their best. Yes, I know there are people who do use welfare the way it should be used, to help get through a tough time and get back on their feet.

And of course what he said about Social Security. At the time it was needed, but now it is not. People depend on that money instead of planning their own retirements. See the crutch the government wants you to have so they have the power. LESS GOVERNMENT BETTER COUNTRY!!! Opportunity is everywhere in this country, ask anyone of the people who stuffed themselves in crates and boxes to get here. It?s because they want the freedom to make the choices they want in their lives and use their talents and brains to support them and become successful. They don?t come here to have another government control them.

I think it was France that had that huge heat wave and thousands of people died. There was no gathering of people to help each other during that heat wave, because everyone just thought their government would take care of them. That didn?t work out to well, did it?

America is America because of how Americans are, HELPFUL and GIVING! And if you can?t see that then you are blinded by your own ?headline reading? hateful agenda.

My head is spinning. I have an idea.

Why not privatize fire departments? Better yet, why not privatize the police department?

ADL Colin · 06-22-2007, 06:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheSenator

My head is spinning. I have an idea.

Why not privatize fire departments? Better yet, why not privatize the police department?

She said "less government", not "no government".

Porn Farmer · 06-22-2007, 06:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ADL Colin

Hardly an argument. We here in the US call that humor. look it up ;-)

Very appropriate, considering your healthcare system is a joke.

Porn Farmer · 06-22-2007, 06:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ADL Colin

She said "less government", not "no government".

Quote:

Originally Posted by ADL Colin

I am not a big fan of the government "protecting the people". I am in favor of people protecting themselves.

But you're against the government protecting citizens?

Why don't you want to privatise the fire department and the police?

TheSenator · 06-22-2007, 06:27 AM

There should never be room for the word “profit” when you are trying to make a decision whether or not to provide somebody care when they get sick.

yys · 06-22-2007, 06:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheSenator

My head is spinning. I have an idea.

Why not privatize fire departments? Better yet, why not privatize the police department?

The fire departments used to be private. They wouldn't put a fire out until a payment was agreed upon; One of the main reason the government took over those duties. Who wants to negotiate a price as your home or business is burning to the ground?

ADL Colin · 06-22-2007, 06:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Porn Farmer

But you're against the government protecting citizens?

I am absolutely not against the government protecting its citizens. I said no such thing. I said I am not a "big fan". Meaning I would shrink nearly every government expense out there. I am completely in favor of a strong military. I think we could cut back there though. I am in favor of limited welfare. I think we could cut back there. I am in favor of helping our eldest citizens. I think we could cut back on it though. There are no contradictions there. I can be in favor of a strong military but yet think we spend too much on it.

So lower taxes, cut back IRS expenses, raise the retirement age and get rid of 3-6 aircraft carriers. I'd be down with that.

Where there is a reasonable opportunity for privatization of any government service I would be in favor of doing such things in test markets. Baby steps. Again, I am not in favor of no government. Nor do I think government is horrible at everything it does. UPS and Fed Ex are great services that compete against the postal service. The postal service does a great job too, No complaints there.

Police and fire? I don't know how to do that from here. Education? I don't know how that can be done either. Some things we are probably stuck with.

tony286 · 06-22-2007, 07:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loryn-Adult.com

THANK YOU!!!!!!! Someone who gets it!

Why the fuck would anyone want the government to control anything else in your life?

LESS GOVERNMENT! And please NO ONE in America gets turned away for medical help. For God sakes illegal aliens get medical help all the time, and they know not to call a taxi, call an ambulance because it will get paid for. There are so many government assistant programs out there it is not even funny. People just don't use them because the "headline readers" say there is nothing out there for anyone and people just sit on their ass and believe that instead of going out and finding what they can do to help better their lives.

When I got into an accident when I was in my early 20's, getting away from the family and wanting to be on my own, I had no insurance and I got great medical care, plus I got assistance with the bills. I have had many friends that I have helped over the years in the same situation and got the same results.

I think once the government starts controlling that part of our lives, you will see the decrease of competition in the medical fields. Competition is great and it makes people work harder to find better cures for illnesses.

I can?t stand when people say out of one side of their mouth, I hate the government it is so corrupted, but out the other side of their mouth its the government should support me and pay for everything. Make up your mind, you either like the government or you don't.

The people are not stupid we can take care of ourselves and our families. And the people who are in this country who can't take care of themselves, there are several programs already out there for them. Nothing is perfect and NOTHING EVER WILL BE. But if you let the government have any more control over you, you will fuck yourself more than you could ever image. Once they get you to depend on them for things that you can take care of yourself, it?s hard to get away from it. Look what happen with welfare. It was designed to help, but instead people took advantage of it and ended up depending on it for life and not their own ability to succeed. It keeps people down, it doesn?t help motivate them to succeed and be their best. Yes, I know there are people who do use welfare the way it should be used, to help get through a tough time and get back on their feet.

And of course what he said about Social Security. At the time it was needed, but now it is not. People depend on that money instead of planning their own retirements. See the crutch the government wants you to have so they have the power. LESS GOVERNMENT BETTER COUNTRY!!! Opportunity is everywhere in this country, ask anyone of the people who stuffed themselves in crates and boxes to get here. It?s because they want the freedom to make the choices they want in their lives and use their talents and brains to support them and become successful. They don?t come here to have another government control them.

I think it was France that had that huge heat wave and thousands of people died. There was no gathering of people to help each other during that heat wave, because everyone just thought their government would take care of them. That didn?t work out to well, did it?

America is America because of how Americans are, HELPFUL and GIVING! And if you can?t see that then you are blinded by your own ?headline reading? hateful agenda.

I love you but watch more than Fox, it really shows. On this subject you really dont know what your talking about also I assume you dont pay for medical insurance.

tony286 · 06-22-2007, 07:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ADL Colin

I am absolutely not against the government protecting its citizens. I said no such thing. I said I am not a "big fan". Meaning I would shrink nearly every government expense out there. I am completely in favor of a strong military. I think we could cut back there though. I am in favor of limited welfare. I think we could cut back there. I am in favor of helping our eldest citizens. I think we could cut back on it though. There are no contradictions there. I can be in favor of a strong military but yet think we spend too much on it.

So lower taxes, cut back IRS expenses, raise the retirement age and get rid of 3-6 aircraft carriers. I'd be down with that.

Where there is a reasonable opportunity for privatization of any government service I would be in favor of doing such things in test markets. Baby steps. Again, I am not in favor of no government. Nor do I think government is horrible at everything it does. UPS and Fed Ex are great services that compete against the postal service. The postal service does a great job too, No complaints there.

Police and fire? I don't know how to do that from here. Education? I don't know how that can be done either. Some things we are probably stuck with.

Privatization is not always a good thing look at the iraq war, privatization has cost us taxpayers a bundle.Once there is a strong profit motive and shareholder responsibility, the client becomes second class.

TheSenator · 06-22-2007, 07:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peaches

If there's a family where only the Dad works and the Dad is out of a job, then why can't the wife work then?

I am betting that his COBRA would have cost less than what they are going to pay out for his cancer treatment.

My wife has a job. She raises our three children and keeps the house in order. I wouldn't have it any other way.

If I get seriously ill my wife shouldn't have to work. I would want her by my side and the children. In the universal healthcare model, this scenario is possible.

TheSenator · 06-22-2007, 07:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tony404

I love you but watch more than Fox, it really shows. On this subject you really dont know what your talking about also I assume you dont pay for medical insurance.

I was also thrown back by her post. Someone must have hacked her account on GFY.

ADL Colin · 06-22-2007, 07:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tony404

Privatization is not always a good thing look at the iraq war, privatization has cost us taxpayers a bundle.

I don't disagree with you, Tony. Government spending my money on "outsourcing" is just as bad as them spending my money on programs they run directly. What i want is smaller government expenditures. While governments overall are quite inefficient that is only part of the story for me.

You think you have a RIGHT to healthcare? Well, fine.

I think i should have a RIGHT run my business for a profit without 50 cents of every dollar I spend (federal taxes, state taxes, city taxes, property taxes, sales tax) being "redistributed". It's straight-up robbery! How far we've come since feudalism. Now instead of the local lord forcefully taking half of everything I earn a buncha dudes in Washington DC VOTE to forecfully take half of everything I own.

tony286 · 06-22-2007, 07:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ADL Colin

I don't disagree with you, Tony. Government spending my money on "outsourcing" is just as bad as them spending my money on programs they run directly. What i want is smaller government expenditures. While governments overall are quite inefficient that is only part of the story for me.

You think you have a RIGHT to healthcare? Well, fine.

I think i should have a RIGHT run my business for a profit without 50 cents of every dollar I spend (federal taxes, state taxes, city taxes, property taxes, sales tax) being "redistributed". It's straight-up robbery! How far we've come since feudalism. Now instead of the local lord forcefully taking half of everything I earn a buncha dudes in Washington DC VOTE to forecfully take half of everything I own.

I work for myself also and have to write that check every quarter but seeing with my Dad and before this with my sister. Changes have to have happen.I also look at my taxes as I get to live and work in this great country that has an environment that I could make the living I make so I give them their share. To prosper in this great country and then bitch about taxes is wrong to me.

ADL Colin · 06-22-2007, 07:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tony404

To prosper in this great country and then bitch about taxes is wrong to me.

"bitching about taxes" is how this country started in the first place.

Peaches · 06-22-2007, 07:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OldJeff

A lot of people have posted in favor of universal health care using the point that they want doctors, not insurance companies making decisions.

It might work in some other countries, but the last thing I want is some far right slanted government (like we had for the first 6 years of W's admin) deciding that since the church says abortion is bad, and we should only teach abstinance that abortion and birth control are no longer covered by our health care system.

Even better, I do not want the "approved" and paid for proceedures and medications to be determined by which company sent the most money to the current administration's campaign.

I have dealt with the US Health care system on pretty much all level, as a welfare recipient as a child, as a soldier, as a HMO member, as a person without coverage, and as a person with a GOOD health care package.

I have never been denied treatment anywhere.

Yes most insurance companies suck to deal with, but dealing with the government ALWAYS sucks more.

Exactly. It amazes me that of all people, we are hearing that people in THIS INDUSTRY want more government involvement in their lives!!

Peaches · 06-22-2007, 08:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pocketkangaroo

COBRA is only 18 months. On top of that, there isn't a health insurance company in the world who will accept someone who has cancer.

Actually there is. There are STATE PLANS (not the federal government) that provide this.

Here's some information from Lance Armstrong's site:

http://www.livestrong.org/site/c.jvK...nformation.htm

Peaches · 06-22-2007, 08:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeVega

I'm amazed by this response because i know your not some young girl that doesn't know the ways of the world.

lets say his Mom hasn't worked in 5-10-15 years and has been raising kids and taking care of the house. she is in her 50's now. you think she can just run out and get a job that will not only pay all there bills but also allow her to take care of her sick husband. hell it took him 30-40 years to get to where they are in life, I'm sure she can run out with little to no work experience or skills and pick up right where he left off.

And yes the Cobra would be cheaper but if you are a middle class person living basically paycheck to paycheck like most middle class your not going to be able to afford the Cobra either. many families lose everything they've worked for because of that exact situation his parents are in.

Tony ... I wish your dad the best .. in most countries a man works all his life and comes down with an illness like that and his government and countrymen would make sure he doesn't lose what he's worked for and can get the treatment he needs without debt and worry.

So you're saying the government should take care of them instead of

1. Having the wife get a job
2. Having good health insurance in the first place
3. Saving throughout your life so you have money to pay for your own medical care
4. Getting private donations

You guys CONSTANTLY complain about how horrible the elected officials are, what horrible decisions the government makes, how they are too big and into too much, BUT you want them to come running and make decisions on your health and the health of your loved ones??!!

I just don't get it. I wouldn't trust the government to take care of my dogs.

wil_I_Am · 06-22-2007, 09:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peaches

So you're saying the government should take care of them instead of

1. Having the wife get a job
2. Having good health insurance in the first place
3. Saving throughout your life so you have money to pay for your own medical care
4. Getting private donations

Again.. obviously you are someone who has NEVER had something significant happen to someone in your family. Our medical prices are so inflated that no middle-class family could afford to pay for them.

So you're saying that by not saving for the $500,000+ operations, it's their fault for being irresponsible? Or are you saying that we should just let people die?

In a perfect world, sure.. we should be able to pay for our own healthcare. But because of the current system, hospitals have to charge 200%+ for procedures, in the hopes that HMO's will pay half of what they ask for. This drives prices up so far that it's impossible to pay the bills (for an average family).

And, I know you're going to say "it's your fault for not having insurance." So what about those people that can't get decent insurance due to "pre-existing" conditions?

Again, please watch the movie. It might not change your mind, but I'd at least like to hear your thoughts afterwards. I've always hated Michael Moore, but this topic was hot before he brought it into the spotlight. Most Americans have been too complacent to do anything about it, hopefully this will light a torch under our asses.

ADL Colin · 06-22-2007, 09:12 AM

100 commies!

View Poll Results: What do you think of universal healthcare?
I live in a country with universal healthcare and think we should keep it.	39	37.86%
I live in a country with universal healthcare and think we should get rid of it.	2	1.94%
I live in a country without universal healthcare and would like my country to have it.	40	38.83%
I live in a country without universal healthcare and don't want my country to have it.	22	21.36%
Voters: 103. You may not vote on this poll

06-21-2007, 08:38 PM	#61
onlymovies Confirmed User Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Southern California Posts: 906	You know what...i keep hearing about how taxes would have to be increased to bring universal healthcare to the USA, blah blah blah. And even though i don't want that ofcourse, if you think about it, with all the fucking high-ass healthcare rates i pay right now for my family, it would mostly likely come to being the same cost anyway. AND, no matter how much i currently spend right now as is, they still can deny me treatment on top of that...lol. Decisions by a CEO = Fucked....that's nothing new. I can't give a true opinion as my research is very limited...ie; how much taxes would be increase, as compared to what i pay a month for health in it's current state, etc etc. Would be interesting to see... __________________ HomemadeVideoPass.com - High converting Homemade mega site! StolenPornVideos.com - The hottest site on the web converting like crazy! ReelPass.com - Offer your surfers 15+ exclusive movie sites for one low price Last edited by onlymovies; 06-21-2007 at 08:39 PM..

06-22-2007, 04:29 AM	#73
OldJeff Big Fucking hahahaha Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 2,063	A lot of people have posted in favor of universal health care using the point that they want doctors, not insurance companies making decisions. It might work in some other countries, but the last thing I want is some far right slanted government (like we had for the first 6 years of W's admin) deciding that since the church says abortion is bad, and we should only teach abstinance that abortion and birth control are no longer covered by our health care system. Even better, I do not want the "approved" and paid for proceedures and medications to be determined by which company sent the most money to the current administration's campaign. I have dealt with the US Health care system on pretty much all level, as a welfare recipient as a child, as a soldier, as a HMO member, as a person without coverage, and as a person with a GOOD health care package. I have never been denied treatment anywhere. Yes most insurance companies suck to deal with, but dealing with the government ALWAYS sucks more. __________________ "As pornographers we must act responsibly! ;))"- Nickatilynx I might be Old and Tired, but at least I don't support a whiney cunt Last edited by OldJeff; 06-22-2007 at 04:31 AM..

06-22-2007, 06:27 AM	#86
TheSenator Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: NJ Posts: 13,336	There should never be room for the word “profit” when you are trying to make a decision whether or not to provide somebody care when they get sick. __________________ ISeekGirls.com since 2005

06-22-2007, 09:12 AM	#100
ADL Colin Too lazy to set a custom title Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Tube Titans, USA Posts: 11,929	100 commies! __________________ Adult Date Link - $50 PPS starting NOW! -- good and JUICY! skype = "adultdatelink"

06-21-2007, 06:23 PM	#52
bl4h Confirmed User Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Philadelphia Posts: 1,282	I dont want to pay for all you fatties ... We pay people not to work and get fat and have babies with welfare, and now you want us to pay for their bad health as well ?

06-21-2007, 07:45 PM	#56
tony286 lurker Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: atlanta Posts: 57,021	Let me share another story with you, my Dad is a republican and he was always people going broke from health care its liberal bullshit. My Dad had started with a new company 5 months ago,did so well they had him interview for a management job ( my dad works in the ins industry).Well then the cancer came,he gets a call from his boss at the sales meeting we all prayed for you and in the next breath HR has to talk to you. Hr says we are putting you on short term disability(6 weeks) then your terminated and your health insurance is canceled you can cobra if you want. Now he is lucky he is being switched to my moms plan.Now in a family where the hubby only works, they are in a world of shit in the middle of cancer and God only knows what the cobra would of cost. This really opened his eyes.

06-21-2007, 09:09 PM	#63
nwm Confirmed User Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 41	I get my health insurance through my wife's work. We just got married and previously I was her domestic partner. That made for interesting calls to HR & the insurance companies -- I basically had to stress that I wasn't gay.

06-21-2007, 10:04 PM	#64
Porn Farmer Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 928	Bumping to see if we can find one person who lives in a country with universal healthcare who thinks their country would be better off without it. Surely they exist?

06-22-2007, 12:51 AM	#68
Porn Farmer Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 928	The far right loves fetuses but healthcare for a person thats already born? Forget it.

06-22-2007, 04:51 AM	#75
Porn Farmer Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 928	Interesting map.