Exactly. Anything less would be.... uncivilized.

Such a stupid argument that can instantly be taken to the level of absurdity. And if you cant see the difference between the US and Indian Wars, and the Palestine / Israel conflict... I will start referring to you as Rose.

Your whole viewpoint of the Palestinian/Israeli conflict is absurd. Instead of taking a look at what's actually happened and what would be reasonable, all you want to do is talk about shit that happened 3000 years ago.

So...since you think Palestinians are cool for blowing up Israeli kids over land that supposedly belonged to them 3000 years ago, I'm assuming you would understand if the descendant of Angry Flying Gopher decided he wanted his great great great great grandpa's land back and blew your shit up.

p.s.

I'm already incredibly impressed by your degree in Anthropology.

I'm already impressed that you can quote religious books.

And finally, A Rose by any other name...

[Labret] is obsessed with justice, and that's a good thing.
I'm really for justice.
Actually, I expect [Labret] to say something lik:
"Before lecturing to other countries about justice, let's start at home.
Let's begin with Detroit, give it back to the Indians.
Then we'll move to NY, LA, Atlanta, San Francisco etc.
We'll won't skip any american city and the land will go back to its rightful owner".

Now, when am I gonna hear that decleration ?
Or maybe I shouldn't hold my breath ?

Again. How will you ever understand a conflict that is rooted in an argument 3000 years old, when you automatically disregard the root of the issue.

The here and now are a result of whats been happening for centuries. Somehow you clods cant grasp onto that idea.

That was so bad I thought Rose wrote it.

You're wrong. Plenty of us grasp it. You're the only one who uses it as an excuse for Palestinians to blow up kids though.

Felafel --- the comparison you are attempting to draw is an empty one. For one thing, we aren't at war with the native Americans/Native Canadians. YOU are, however, almost purpetually at war with your surrounding neighbors.

Huge difference right there.

Also, the Native N. Americans are free to take advantage of everything our free capitalist/democratic nations offer everyone, plus, at least here in Canada, they have all sorts of grants and special concessions they can take advantage of. I have a good many friends that are native Canadians, and they all are free to work, live, travel, marry, have families, etc etc, just like any other ethnicity here. They would no more think of tossing grenades into a McDonalds than they would cut of their noses.

Yes, many Native Canadians/Americans are down and out, many choose to drink Lysol and live a life of squallor, but it is just that... a choice. They are government funded, they are offered much social assistances and welfare, so if they choose not to take advantage of the free education they have at their disposal and become productive citizens, then that's their right I suppose.

But in light of that, where does that leave your arguement? As I said in my earlier post, there are only 2 choices in your situation. When looking for a solution, it is always wise to cut through all the bullshit "how's" and "why's" and get to the meat of the matter. In this case, what is going to take to solve the problem and settle the dispute? Think about it.

Well, at least you aknowledge it... you just seem to think it is an invalid reason? I have news for you. Its the only reason.

As well as the only "reason" you people wont debate on here.

Why? Because you cannot.

So until you can address and debate the root issue of this conflict, you cannot address jack shit that is going on now. Let alone understand it.

Get ready to move!

These would be valid points except for 2 things.

1) They are only at war with their neighbors because their neighbors keep declaring war on them.

2) Plenty of Palestinians work in Israel and benefit from Israel. Without Israel there would be no power, no water, and no other public services like garbage cleanup in the Palestinian areas.

The Palestinians are free to work, travel, marry, etc, until they start blowing people up. If they were as peaceful as the Indians they wouldn't be under curfew or restricted in any way.

Since you give so much credibility to things that happened in the past, when will you be selling your house, giving it back to the Indians, and paying the black people in America your share of the reparations they desire?

So then we in the USA actively have a "United" Native American conflict where they all are collectively demanding the return of large portions of the United States to its indigenous peoples?

Oh wait... no we dont, that would be Israel.

No, we don't. That's why we live in peace with the Indians. :)

If they did get together and declared war on us to get their land back, would you side with them and give them their land back? Afterall, they owned it a few short couple of hundred years ago...not thousands upon thousands...

And where's your reparations to the black people?

This post is so desgusting
I can only keep my fingers crossd
that labret gets testicle cancer,
that his balls grow to the size of mellons
and that he would have them cut off,
by a palestinian doctor

In peace? Have you ever been to an Indian Reservation?

Yes.

Is there an Indian uprising somewhere I don't know about?

I hope not. We'll have to give them back their land. :(

So then we in the USA actively have a "United" Native American conflict where they all are collectively demanding the return of large portions of the United States to its indigenous peoples?

Oh wait... no we dont, that would be Israel.

--------------------------------------------------

Yes that conflict was here. Indians didnt want us here, did they?
They fought and lost cause they were weaker. Just like Palestinians .

Do you think it was fair fight? They gave up America
only because they couldnt stop white men.

No... no uprising. But some pretty troubled people.

Not at peace.

Yeah well if they had the support a powerful nation to hand them weapons and all that crap, you can be sure some pissed off Indians would have fucked some shit up.

CDSmith, I know that the native Americans are not in a mad terror campaign.
My hypothetical point was this: what if in 2,5,10 years from now, a national movement of the Indians will be established and they will "demand" all their territories back ?
Are you going to give it back ?
No ?
Ok, what if they'll start terrorizing you ?
What if they'll send suicide bombers to target your civilians ?
Will you then return the land to the ones who held it in the first place ?
No ? Damn, you're being hard on me.
Ok, how are you gonna react to those terror attacks ?
Are you gonna negotiate with them and then end up with a settlement that goes something like "We'll give 50% of your land back" ?
No ? damn, it's really hard to argue with you.
Ok, what if people from other countries in the world will tell you "let's go 3,000 years back and see who owned the land first" ?
Will you then dismantle your countries and move to Europe ?
No ?
Why not ?
Justice should be served - shouldn't it ?

I know that you're no in war with those people right now.
My point was that if you were in conflict with the indians, you wouldn't have acted any differently than Israel.
It's easy to hold the views you're holding when it's someone else's conflict you see every evening on TV.
I have no doubt in mind that if we were talking about your own conflict (and I'm not wishing you one), your views would have been totally different.

Yes, and for valid reasons... at least to *the neighbors*. And that is why drawing a comparison between the middle east conflict and the USA/Native relationship is an empty one. Which brings us back to my ealier points, and also to Labrat's point, which are that there are only 2 possible outcomes for the region.

1) Isreal leaves. -- obviously not gonna happen.

2) War. -- Why? Because largely it's about what Labrat's trying to say here. It's about a claim to lands that dates back close to the friggen stone age. Is it right? Doesn't matter, that's the rooty-toot ROOT of the matter, and like it or not, it's not going away either.

You are missing the point I am afraid.

Ok, one more time.

I am here to aknowledge one thing basically, through all the bullshit, through all the flag covered SUVs, parades for the firemen, and endless patriotic rants... I understand why they are pissed off and blowing shit up.

Thats it... simply that I understand why its happening.

And that is something that most of you cant seem to either handle or grasp. I tell you why they are doing it, and you all start crying. I defend their position, more crying on your behalf.

Here is how a typical conversation goes:

GFYNewbie: God damn arab ******s blwing shit up.
Labret: They are doing it for reasons 1, 2, 3, 4, etc etc etc
GFYNewbie: Fuck you nazi bigot anti-american jew hating ******.

I argue you the root causes... get NO answers or debates, just more Rose ramblings and broken english interjections by Israels finest.

As for the native americans... on the same front, if the Natives all joined together and started blowing shit up.

Now here is the difference between me and you.

You and Rose will stand up and say, "God damn drunk river ******s are alwyas causing trouble. they are lucky we let them live.. they go to college for free yada yada yada".

Here is me... "Yeah, they are fucking assholes, but I understand why they are doing it... and here is why".

You guys "Fuck you you anti-american native loving race traitor piece of shit".

So if the indians rise up, I will at the very least understand why they are doing it. And that puts me head and shoulders above you two.

Did you do like I said and search for Social Darwinism? Evidently you did not. Or you did and the big words scared you away. Rubber band got twisted too tight and started causing headaches. Quick, run for the hairdye.

So all you two have managed to state with all your posts is what the rest of us already know? That the Palestinians are idiots carrying a grudge from 3000 years ago and they want all their land back even if it means refusing to live in the present and trying to move on with their lives and do something useful?

No shit. The rest of us don't have degrees in Anthropology and we already knew that.

And that puts me head and shoulders above you two.
--------------------------------------

You are not above anybody believe me Mr.Cubiclehadeen.
And dont start with your education and money, we heard that
more than once.

HAHAHAHA

That made me laugh. ;)

Let me make a few corrections...

GFYNewbie: Fucken Palestinians blew up another busload of kids today. Fuckers.
Labret: Good. Kill all the Zionists. Here is a picture of my hero (Insert pic of that arab dude armed to the teeth). He rocks. I can't wait until all the Jews are dead and pushed into the sea. (Insert some quotes from the Torah, the Koran, and some other ancient history text here)

Another difference is that the N. American indians don't have 5 or six other indian nations backing them up, and they aren't numbering like 2 or 300 million stong.

My angle here is not really to support one side or the other. My deal is that I look for the solution, and in order to do that I look and listen until I find the root causes. Then I look at the mindsets of either side and the positions they maintain, and finally I arrive at the only possible options for resolvement.

In this case, the options are pretty clear. It doesn't matter that you already knew shit, it makes no nevermind that one side is "more right than t'other", it only matters that a solution is reached one way or another. Period.

You know Cubiclehadeen.
First I thought you are just ignorant stupid who likes attention, but noooo
that's not the case

So what's your solution?

Because Arabs hate the "Palestinians" much more than Jews hate them

So you are all angry at my personal opinions... not my statements regarding history?

Gee thats funny... you sure seem to bitch about those alot.

I talk about killing Canadians all the time. Who is whining on that one? I hate hippies, women, and the French. And advocate the use of violence against them with consistency. But no attacks on that? I personally dont care who dies in this so long as another busload of Israeli citizens goes up in flames. Because every one that does only helps to further prove my points.

Some kid with an AA in liberal arts from Detroit Tech is heads above you. So it really isnt saying all that much.

Because Arabs hate the "Palestinians" much more than Jews hate them
---------------------------
I think you might be right.:thumbsup

"In peace? Have you ever been to an Indian Reservation?"

That's where I buy my gas. No tax on the reserve. :)

cubiclehadeen = blockhead?


Why not just call him a blockhead then? I mean, since we're resorting to name-calling and all. The spirit of intelligent debate lives on in all of us!! ha ha

I'm not angry with you. I just think you're trying to drive home a point everyone already knows, then declaring yourself smarter than everyone else because of it.

We all already know why the violence initially started. But it's 3000 years later. Maybe the Arabs instead of whining about the past should do something constructive (like take half the land like they were offered) and try to build something.

You sound goofy yelling about the evil Jews when they have been more than willing to work out peaceful solutions and the only response has been another suicide bomber, which you immediately jump and down with joy for.

The initial cause of this situation was never in doubt. But the way the two sides have handled it has shown which one really wants peace and which side is just a bunch of animals bloodlusting over shit that happened 3000 years ago.

Isn't that what all the flame wars around here are about? Or at least 95% of them? hehe

hey whats with the people in this thread not knowing about the quote function?

Evidently you dont pay much attention. Read the thread and revise the statement. Read the other 100 threads while your at it. To say people understand the root of the problem on here is a fucking joke.

Then what the fuck are you arguing with me about?

You want to argue and tell me that you understand me? My arguments? Kudos to you brainiac. Criticize those and stay on topic then.




Then you have to go shoving your head back up your ass.