So what's your solution?

Because Arabs hate the "Palestinians" much more than Jews hate them

So you are all angry at my personal opinions... not my statements regarding history?

Gee thats funny... you sure seem to bitch about those alot.

I talk about killing Canadians all the time. Who is whining on that one? I hate hippies, women, and the French. And advocate the use of violence against them with consistency. But no attacks on that? I personally dont care who dies in this so long as another busload of Israeli citizens goes up in flames. Because every one that does only helps to further prove my points.

Some kid with an AA in liberal arts from Detroit Tech is heads above you. So it really isnt saying all that much.

Because Arabs hate the "Palestinians" much more than Jews hate them
---------------------------
I think you might be right.:thumbsup

"In peace? Have you ever been to an Indian Reservation?"

That's where I buy my gas. No tax on the reserve. :)

cubiclehadeen = blockhead?


Why not just call him a blockhead then? I mean, since we're resorting to name-calling and all. The spirit of intelligent debate lives on in all of us!! ha ha

I'm not angry with you. I just think you're trying to drive home a point everyone already knows, then declaring yourself smarter than everyone else because of it.

We all already know why the violence initially started. But it's 3000 years later. Maybe the Arabs instead of whining about the past should do something constructive (like take half the land like they were offered) and try to build something.

You sound goofy yelling about the evil Jews when they have been more than willing to work out peaceful solutions and the only response has been another suicide bomber, which you immediately jump and down with joy for.

The initial cause of this situation was never in doubt. But the way the two sides have handled it has shown which one really wants peace and which side is just a bunch of animals bloodlusting over shit that happened 3000 years ago.

Isn't that what all the flame wars around here are about? Or at least 95% of them? hehe

hey whats with the people in this thread not knowing about the quote function?

Evidently you dont pay much attention. Read the thread and revise the statement. Read the other 100 threads while your at it. To say people understand the root of the problem on here is a fucking joke.

Then what the fuck are you arguing with me about?

You want to argue and tell me that you understand me? My arguments? Kudos to you brainiac. Criticize those and stay on topic then.




Then you have to go shoving your head back up your ass.

CDSmith, cubiclehadeen is I think more like holy warrior.
Only Labret is not riding on a camel, hiding under a sheet,wiping his butt with his hands, but fighting his Holy War
with the keyboard from his cubicle

Well, guess what CDSmith - I'm looking for the solution too.
The most agonizing thing is that at the end, at the bottom line the peace deal will based on the Clinton plan from Camp David 2000 give or take extremely minor changes (if any).
Israel will never negotiate under terror - and I support it.
Israel will never negotiate with Arafat - and I support that too.
I wonder if any of you think that the US should negotiate with Osama Bin Laden for a "solution" for the conflict between you two.
I didn't think so.

Unfortunately, there are no easy short cuts here.
Until Arafat will be moved from power, no progress can be made.
Even when he will be removed, and the Fatah fraction will want to negotiate with Israel, let's not forget that the Hamas and the Islamic Jihad will never stop their terror attacks.
After all, their platform is the destruction of the state of Israel.
As for Israel's existence, I'm not worried.
We're a tough people, we've been through a lot and we have the means to survive any challenge.

Some members raised the possibility of a total war in the middle east.
It's hard for me to tell if it's probable but it's definitely possible.
Actually, I think that the country that will gain most from such a war will be Israel.
Maybe it's the only path to a more quite region.

Religion, yeah that is the answer.

Jeez man, some of you seem to completely miss the bottom line. Try removing yourself from taking sides in the issue and be objective about it and you might see where I'm coming from. The bottom line is not about who is "more right" or anything. The bottom line is "what is it going to take to arrive at a solution?"

And don't be a boneheadicus and say "when the arabs and/or Isrealis smarten up" because that's not the answer any longer and you know it. It never was. I've listed two options above. Can anyone here come up with a 3rd that is at least viable? If not, might as well shut up, buckle up, and wait for the inevitable.

How so?

I can pinpoint two specific times the Palestinians could have had their own country and actually been on the road to building something instead of living like a goatherd.

When did the Jews go on the warpath without being attacked first?

Are you going to call me a mongoloid again? That hurts when you do that. :( Is it possible to be a brainiac mongoloid?

Sure. I think a war is inevitable at this point. I'm actually surprised it hasn't happened yet.

But looking at how the two sides have behaved, it's obvious who wants the war, and who will fight it only because they're forced to.

Dont make me break out the Torah.

FATPad, I'm afraid I don't agree that a total war is inevitable.
The current situation is the best for the Arab countries.
Israel is bleeding without them lifting a finger.
In a total war, they have everything to lose.
Let's say, like in 48, 3,4 or 5 armies will fight Israel.
Well, if things will not go smoothly the conventional way, and if a sword will be put upon Israel's neck, there's no doubt that Israel will turn the Arab countries into moon duplicates by nuking them.
That's why we strived to get the nuclear option in the first place: deterrence from an all out war.

Arab leaders are not that stupid.
They know they can't win a total war with Israel.

The only reason you regard the theological issues behind the Arab / Israeli conflict to be irrelevant or disregard them is because you cannot argue against them.

Its almost fool proof when you can turn ones own history and theology books against them. You cant call it biased 3rd party rhetoric, and that would be your only defense.

The same books used to justify Israel are the same books that can be used against them.

More than mildly ironic.

Well stated..
Do you think it would help if all other countries simply stayed out of the matter ? How does the meddling of other countries affect the resolution of this conflict ?

Its completely true for over 50 years Lebanon with the help of Syria does not allow Palestinians to build any type of permenant buildings or give them citizenship but instead makes them live in tents in order to keep pressure of world media on Israel

They cant until Oil stopes coming from the ME after that Israel will be able to do whatever it pleases

Which books did I use to justify Israel?

They tried 5 times, I bet you they will try again

Arab leaders are not stupid at all They know that they can loose as many wars as they want if a war is what they need politcally to motivate the masses etc blame everything on Israel they will attack.

Again, I commend Labret for holding his position although at times it seems like a futile excercise. It doesn't seem to matter how right he is, he will only be seen as an Anti-Semite or kkk member among the ignorant and the biased. They hope that using these terms will silence Labret by shaming him, but he has nothing to be ashamed of. He's telling it like it is.

It's pathetic and downright disgusting how everybody attacks him personally instead of his arguments. It gets you nowhere.

He's taken you through his position in baby steps time and time again. He is simply saying that he understands the Arab reaction. Is this so difficult to comprehend?

Clearly some posters have an agenda. Rose claims she deosn't care about what's going on in the Middle East, then in her next posts she's in an uproar defending Isreal. Could she be any more transparent. Her posts are good for nothing but laughs.

Still others try to cloud the discussion by drawing analogies between the Middle East situation to that of North American Indians. Please refrain from making such irrelevant comparisons. It's as if you're scraping up anything you can find that you think will help to support your position. Well, you're out of luck.

Until Isreal and Isreal sympathizers acknowlege the reasons why people are willing to strap bombs on themselves and their children to die, then Isreal has got a longer bloodier road to travel before any type of resolution comes about.

Depends. Does "staying out" also include stopping up the rather wide funnel that channels millions of US dollars over to the Isrealis?


As long as we're bantering about "what ifs" here...
What if that funnel had been stopped up and cut off oh, say back in the mid 70's? Hmm, I wonder how Isreal would be doing today?


I'm not anti-Isreali, I'm just sick of hearing about fighting in the fucking middle fucking east. All my life from early childhood on I've heard time and again about this shit, and frankly a lot of people in this world feel as I do about it. Find a solution, stay the hell home, shut the fuck up, and live your lives in peace for crap sakes. Why is that so hard?

"GFYNewbie: God damn arab ******s blwing shit up.
Labret: They are doing it for reasons 1, 2, 3, 4, etc etc etc
GFYNewbie: Fuck you nazi bigot anti-american jew hating ******. "

When i said the same for the WTC event I got attacked as anti-american too. I didn't say t was fair or that I felt good when it happened, the opposite.

But I managed to see the reasons behind the craziness. When there's a cause, there's a reason. I had posted the interview of N.Chomski where he demonstrated everything with a great way revealing at the same time events and facts the average citizen still doesn't know. Lacking knowledge of basic facts leads to wrong imnpressions. Now if some people want to pass or believe that all this happened because a crazy arab decided to blow the WTC and if we send them few nukes we are finished then ok......

Don't jump to reply me you political junkies, scambus i won't reply :) I already spent much time in the past. Afterall since the us president seems to have other priorities now, who am I to do the opposite? :)

at any given point,
killing of innocent people is wrong.

and if you morons fail to grasp this elemntirc truth,
then there is nothing in this world that can save you.

I find this post utterly disgusting,
since it promotes anti-semitism, hatred and terrorism,

There many organizations who fight terror support websites,
and I can'y see why GFY wishes to join their list.

GFY is a place of adult webmasters,
there shouldn't be any politics here and racist posts should be banned,

so how come this post isn't banned ?

lol

Dada,

You obviously are overreacting completely.
This board is located in the USA, ever heard of "Freedom of Speech"?

No? Maybe they don't have that nice feature in your country - fine, but accept that others have.

For the ignorant people:

Why can't you see that Labret is merely trying to show that there is more going on than just Palestinians being murderous monsters? For god sake, he is spending alot of time writing clear non complicated posts for you to explain this important element.

Why are they doing what they are doing?

Do you lack the intelligence to see through all the superficial propaganda?

Why is almost no one being objective? Unbiased...
Certainly not all of you are somehow connected to Israel?

How come you cannot for once balance yourself between the two oppossing parties and analyze their reasoning behind all this?

Please start using your basic analytical abilities.

Freedom of speech only for those you agree with.

The hallmark of a good ol' fashioned lefty.

I can't keep myself from responding to this sentence.

How about you show me some text that supports the use of terrorism to achieve goals?

Supporting terrorism is wrong, understanding why things happen and finding the motive that drives people to acts like terrorism isn't.

We need to understand to prevent.

What is terrorism?

One mans terrorist is another mans freedom fighter.

Our founding fathers were all terrorists.

Why is it that you think Labret is being objective and unbiased?

As far as I can tell, as I do not know him besides his contributions to this board - he has a wide knowledge about the history of the Israel/Palestina conflict.

He thought about this subject and formed an opinion that can be considered as having a basis. He has no emotional ties to this issue. (again as far as I can tell from his posts).

Objective: I think he made it clear that he hates
everyone equally ;-)

I would like to hear him "defend" Israel's stance, if he can...

Me? Biased?

What do I have to lose or gain in this conflict?

I look at facts as they are presented to me and draw my own conclusions. I dont let the news, 12 years of forced public education sensitivity training, and hordes of brainwashed Americans influence my decisions on anything.

In fact, I am of the general opinion that if the average American feels one way about a subject... odds are I will feel differently. As the average Americans opinions on anything outside of who will be the winner of American Idol and who will be voted off next on Survivor, are going to uneducated guesses strongly influenced by what little news they manage to pickup scanning through on the way to MTV.

Out of how many people who read this, how many active detractors do I have in this thread? 4? 5?

Why is that? You can either assume that some of them think I am right and dont feel the need to reply... or that they are ignorant and wouldnt be able to respond about the subject at hand anyhow. Probably a combination of both.

And the ones that actively try and shout me down are horribly misinformed and clueless (Rose) about the situation entirely. They should follow the lead of the other ignorant and just not respond whatsoever.

obviously, but it's much easier to think in terms of absolutes.

Really? Then where on earth did you get the idea that it is tanks versus rocks? If that rock throwing shit aint staged I don't know what is. Surely someone with your vast knowledge must be aware of how well armed they actually are.

I was humoring Rose who insists that any battle in the middle east will involve camels versus jets and nukes. Follow the thread a little closer.

Too tired and lazy to go back, search, and quote.

Fuck it...



Sometimes I think Rose is 12Clicks in disguise.

LOL

Labret hasn't said anything profound. "Jews are evil and it's all because of 3000 years ago" isn't saying much at all.

That sounds as good as black people going "WHITE PEOPLE ARE EVIL, LOOK AT 150 YEARS AGO! WHERE'S OUR REPARATIONS?"

No one here has justified the Jews by pointing to old books. No one here has except Labret has had to go back 3000 years to justify their position. If you have to go that far back, you don't have a position, you're just an idiot.

But to appease, Labret who will get grumpy if we don't tell him how smart he is...

You are right Labret. The Jews are evil rotten people and have committed ALL sorts of inhumanities and deserve to have their children blown up by the Palestinians. *pats Labret on the head*

After all, they're alive and according to your 3000 year old books, you have to hate them. :)

How bizarre that the Zionists will use the same exact books to justify their position in the Holy Land. So then by your argument, the Zionists are idiots as well? And I thought Rose was the Queen of self defeating arguments.

I mean, what was their initial claim to the Holy Land based upon? Oh thats right, 3k year old "books".

Ahh yes, the pangs of defeat...

You obviously payed little or no attention to the things I said.

Yes, the zionists who justify their rights to that land from those books are idiots.

You must be mistaking me for you, thinking that I've quoted from these holy books who should have the land and who shouldn't.

And answer me on ICQ, assmonger.

So than every single one of these people, who are absolute giants of Israeli history, ALL of whom were Zionists to the core... are all "idiots"? And this list was edited for brevity sake.



Theodore Herzl
David Ben-Gurion
Chaim Weizmann
Menachem Begin
Golda Meir
Yitzhak Rabin
Levi Eshkol
Moshe Sharrett
Yosef Sprinzak
Abba Eban
Yigal Allon
Chaim Herzog
Yitzchak Shamir
Shimon Peres
Benjamin Netanyahu
Moshe Katsav
Avraham Yitzchak HaCohen Kook
Ben-Zion Meir Hai Ouziel
Yitzchak Izzik HaLevy Herzog
Yitzchak Nissim
Isar Yehuda Unterman
Shlomo Goren
Mordechai Eliyahu
Avraham Shapira
Ovadiah Yosef
Judah Leib (Fishman) Maimon
Avraham Yeshayahu Karelitz
Rabbi Moshe Ben Maimon (Rambam)
Rabbi Moshe Ben Nachman (Nachmanides)
Eliyahu Gutmacher
Meir Lavush Nalbim
Naftali Zvi Yehuda Berlin
Yitzchak Elchanan Spector
Yisrael Meir HaCohen
Mordecai Eliasberg
Azriel Hildenseimer
Alexander Moshe Lapidot
Yehuda Alkalai
Yitzhak Ya'akov Reines
Zvi Hirsch Kalischer
Shmuel Mohilever
Moses Hess
Leo Pinsker

Honestly?

Yea. All religious fanatics are idiots in my opinion. :)

As are people who have to go back 3000 years for reasons to justify their actions today. If that wasn't true, I'd have 2800 years left of listening to black people demand their slavery reparations and frankly, I'm not in the mood for that either.

Ok, let me see if I have this correct.

You have stated rather plainly that Zionists and their use of old dirty books as justification for the existence of Israel are "idiots".

*sigh*

Why are you even arguing about Israel when you yourself just sit here and basically disagree with the whole premise of Israel to begin with?

One more time to hammer it home.

All the above mentioned divas of Zionist history, who aided in the creation of Israel, are all "idiots"? The foundation of Israel itself is rooted on "idiotic" theories dreamed up by idiotic people who get their instructions from a story book?

Yep. And I'll even explain to you why. :)

Both sides had the chance for a country of their own in 1948.

The Jews took it, the Arabs said no and tried to kill all the Jews. Repeatedly.

Two years ago, after much violence, the Jews offered almost everything the Palestinians SAID they wanted. Again, a chance for a country of their own.

The Palestinians rejected and ordered more bombings.

Nothing to do with 3000 years ago, the Chosen People, or the word of God. Just a basic sense of right and wrong.

It's not as if in 1948 the Jews stormed into the area and captured all the land from Palestinians.

Now...I want you to tell me a few things. :)

1) Why do you think the Jews deserve the suicide bombings? Do you really think the Jews invaded the land in 1948 and stole it from the Palestinians without an opportunity for the Palestinians to have their own country?

2) Which side has reached out more in the name of peace and actually tried to end all the violence in the region?

This is where you fucked up. You instantly killed your own argument.

You had either two positions after this point.

You could say you meant it and be portrayed the obvious Zionist hypocrite.

Or you could ride it out.

Bravo.

And I can no longer accepts arguments from you because you cannot argue with someone who denies the entire premise of the very thing he is trying to argue. It makes no damn sense to me.

Now its just lip flapping and back tracking.

NEXT!