burp

That might have been their public position, but even if they would have followed through with it, the Soviet Army of 1938 wasn't really capable of that kind of offensive action after the purges. And the cure would have been just as bad as the illness, anyway.

That might have been their public position, but even if they would have followed through with it, the Soviet Army of 1938 wasn't really capable of that kind of offensive action after the purges. And the cure would have been just as bad as the illness, anyway.
--------------------------------

Yes I somehow agree. But the German Army of 1938 wasn't really capable also.
Czechoslovak army alone was capable holding nazis in the mountains for months. All they needed was a little help.

You can't re-write the history. Problem is people who make the history right now have the same level of stupidity and corruption as it was before and WILL make the same mistakes again.

wow

I'm blinded by the strength of your argument

so intelligent

so thought through

you sound like an israeli lover

and they bomb women and children

you must be so proud

canada really should tighten up it's immigration policy...

jammyjenkins dont worry about Canada. Canada is just fine.
Worry about your Arab brothers

you sound like an palestinian lover

and they bomb women and children

you must also be so proud

oops nm

jammyjenkins
people like you are trying to say that the poor palestinians
are nice and peacefull people. Then tell me why
Jordan killed thousands of these nice people 30 years ago.
And why Kuwait forcibly evicted about 300,000 Palestinians
just short 10 years ago. After Gulf War.
Even Saudi Arabia kicked out about 350,000 Palestinians
after Gulf War.
And BTW why after King Hussein drove Arafat and his Palestinians into Lebanon, Arafat began a reign of terror against
Lebanese people. 1 000's of Lebanese were murdered, raped and tortured by Arafat's Palestinians.

Why?

Quoting...

Jordan was the only Arab country to welcome the Palestinians and grant them citizenship (to this day Jordan is the only Arab country where Palestinians as a group can become citizens). King Abdullah considered the Palestinian Arabs and Jordanians one people. By 1950, he annexed the West Bank and forbade the use of the term Palestine in official documents.

Jordan ROUTINELY kills Palestinian militants.




Quoting...

The treatment of the refugees in the decade following their displacement was best summed up by a former director of UNRWA, Ralph Garroway, in August 1958: "The Arab States do not want to solve the refugee problem. They want to keep it as an open sore, as an affront to the United Nations and as a weapon against Israel. Arab leaders don't give a damn whether the refugees live or die."

Little has changed in succeeding years. Arab governments have frequently offered jobs, housing, land and other benefits to Arabs and non-Arabs, excluding Palestinians. For example, Saudi Arabia chose not to use unemployed Palestinian refugees to alleviate its labor shortage in the late 1970's and early 1980's. Instead, thousands of South Koreans and other Asians were recruited to fill jobs.

The situation grew even worse in the wake of the Gulf War. Kuwait, which employed large numbers of Palestinians but denied them citizenship, expelled more than 300,000 of them. "If people pose a security threat, as a sovereign country we have the right to exclude anyone we don't want," said Kuwaiti Ambassador to the United States, Saud Nasir Al-Sabah (Jerusalem Report, June 27, 1991).

Certain Muslim states fear militant Islam spreading in their country. Even Saddam Hussein kills militants at every chance that try and infiltrate from Iran.


Rose.

For someone so knowledgeable on middle eastern relations, you sure as fuck dont pay much attention.

Mulsims kill Muslims. Much in the same way the Christians have killed other Christian. Take the Iran / Iraq war for example. Or Saudi Arabia / Kuwait / Iraq. Or even more recently.. the Taliban versus the Northern Alliance. You try and lump all Muslims into the same category and without much success. Again, apples and oranges Rose. focus.... foooocuuuus. Anyone ever call you scatterbrained? Many women are like that, cant focus on one topic for more than 3 minutes. Or you get them talking and they cover 47 topics in 6 minutes. Anyhow, I digress.

And probably because you didnt catch this the first time:



Largely true.

You can see its effects in Europe where alot of people see through the Zionist bullshit.

Is this also true Labret?




-- Here is the Palestinian war strategy:

-- Kill as many Israeli woman and children as possible.

-- The Palestinians are duplicitous, back-stabbing extortionists saying
"If you don't give us what we want, we will murder your women and children."

-- When Israel retaliates, scream bloody murder

-- The Palestinian terrorists then hide among civilians and their houses, hoping the destruction will horrify the world

-- When the inevitable Israeli pullout occurs, run behind shooting as if they are driving
them out

-- The Palestinians have no military objective they can hope to achieve. Their only aim is to increase their body count and further shock the world.


The Palestinians live in squalor, because their leaders keep them in it, not because of Israel. Its not in the Palestinian leaders best interest, to normalize life for their people. If they did, there would be no need for them.

Eye for an eye.



It should be more something to the effect "if you kill our women and children, we will kill your women and children".



When Palestinians retaliate against Zionist state sponsored terrorism.

If someone killed my children and bulldozed down my house... I would cry as well.



Oh thats right. They should run to their military bases. Oh wait... they dont have any. Raheems apartment is his base dip shit.



Yes, those god damn 14 year olds with their rocks and bottles.



See below.

ohhhhh.... so thats why they are all mad? Lookie everyone, Rose found the root of the Arab / Israeli conflict! Its the Palestinian desire to be unemployed and living in filth.... hopefully one day dying for Allah.

You had blonde hair in that pic you posted yesterday didnt you?

Stop it.... STOP ITTTT!!! Y-You're KILLING ME!!!

I am truly rolling on the fuggin floor laughing my albeitly killer ass off.

:1orglaugh




Interesting debate though. Is it safe to assume that both sides in the conflict (Isreali and Arabic, not Rat and Rose) have legitimate grievances? Each side also has done things that no one should be proud of, correct? Since this is the case, and the situation has been argued to death for decades now, maybe the answer is more basic rather than complex. To me, it comes down to two scenarios.....

1. Isreal vacates the premises.

2. War. Not little border disputes. War. All-out insanity at it's finest.

Since neither side is ever going to back down, one can safely assume that scenario 2 will become reality in a relatively short period of time.
That is, unless..... (you fill in the blank)

You can see its effects in Europe where alot of people see through the Zionist bullshit.
----------------------------------------

Labret you can not be serious.
Have you ever been to Europe.
I spend a month a year in Europe. Almost all my family lives there
(germany and Czech republic).
If you think general population cares about Palestinians
you are dreaming.
People there are mostly racist.
You see racism there a lot more there than here in North America.
I can tell you that they can not stand the Arabs.
Do not listen just to Liberal EU politicians.

I must admit that [Labret] does a fantastic job representing the KKK in this board, and that's ok, the world would be a boring place to live in without a few brave people that spread their hate towards Israel.
I'm a native Israeli who lives in central Israel near Tel Aviv.
Let me react to some of the points that were discussed here.

As far as I'm concerned, I live here because I was born here in 1972 and because the UN voted for the establishment of the state of Israel.
That's all I need to know that I deserve to live here.
This is my country, that's where I live and not me nor the rest of the 6.5 million Israelis who live here have any plans to relocate.
I have no doubt that if tomorrow the Indians will start a terror campaign aimed at American citizens, [Labret] will instantly suggest that all of you should really give back New York, LA, Florida (we can host Internext in other locations) & Chicago.

After all, the Indians were here first - right ? so who will blame them if they will send a suicide bomber to your nearest McDonald's or to your son's school.
You stole their land, you built you "colonies" on it, you humiliated them - it's only fair that you'll give all that land back, pack you bags and move back to Europe, Africa and the rest of the places that you came from.
There can't be a double standard of course, and a Palestinian's blood is not more red than and Indian's who's land has been stolen.

Do I sound ridiculous ?
Well, actually I am.
No, the wheel can't be turned back, you will not evacuate your cities and no, you will not go back to wherever you came from and yes, you will kill anybody that will try to attack your citizens in a systematic terror campaign.
Terrorism is not tolerable.
When you send suicide bombers to blow a hotel, a restaurant, a school or the twin towers, I don't give a fuck about your motives.
I will have you killed no matter what, because it's either me or you (and I don't want it to be me).

In 1948 the UN offered to divide the land to 2 states: an Israeli one and a Palestinian one.
We said yes, the Arabs said no and started a war against us with 5 armies.
They lost.
In 1967 the scenario repeated itself.
5 Arab countries, including Jordan and Egypt that ruled the Palestinians at that time (did you know that ?) attacked us again.
They lost and we won their territories in a war that they started.
You can't start a war and then bitch around that your territories have been taken from you after you lose.
In 2000, during the Camp David summit, the Palestinians were offered another peace deal.
Like in 48 - they refused and started the terror campaign.

I'm not an extreme right wing Israeli.
In fact, up until 2000 I always voted for the left and for peace.
Today I know that peace can't be done with terrorists.
That's why you, the Americans, didn't try to reach a deal with Osama Bin Laden and that's why you're not trying to reach a deal with Saddam Hussein.
Terrorists should always be hunted and killed.
It's either them or you and you received a waking call from hell on 9/11.

Many criticize GW Bush.
I don't belong to that camp.
Why should I ? After all he's the first American president that looks at the reality as it is and not putting his head in the sand.
He's leading a global campaign against terror, he turned Afghanistan into a sand box after they fucked with the US and he's after Saddam now (a thing that I strongly support).
I know Saddam very well.
I live in Ramat Gan, the most heavily bombarded city by Scud missiles in 1991 during the gulf war.
I know what he's capable of and I know that if Israel did not bombard his nuclear plant in 1981, that man would have had many nuclear war heads by now.

I hope that some day, a reasonable, terror free Palestinian leadership will emerge.
Then and only then I will be more than happy to sit at the negotiating table and try to cut a deal.
Mean while, I'll support all anti terror steps taken by my government.
In fact, only a couple of days ago, I received a green letter from the army, calling me for 35 days of reserve military service, so I guess I'll be fighting terrorism personally.

2. War. Not little border disputes. War. All-out insanity at it's finest.

---------------------------------------
CDSmith I can not agree more.
There is gonna be a war.

I must admit that [Labret] does a fantastic job representing the KKK in this board
----------------------------

No I dont think that our Cubiclehadeen warrior represents KKK.
Not even KKK is stuck in some 1000's years old Holy War

I found this kind of interesting,
in a primary schoolish sort of way.....

"<i>The word you've entered isn't in the dictionary. Click on a spelling suggestion below or try again using the Dictionary search box to the right."
</i><b>
Suggestions for Cubiclehadeen: </b><i>
1. kickboards
2. captionless
3. capsulized
4. chipboards
5. capacitated
6. capsicums
7. capsulated
8. Septuagesima
9. capsulizes
10. capacitates </i>


The meanings of a few of those words might apply to Labrat, but in an oblique sort of way.
I suppose.


Sorry, I'm just not familiar with the term "cubiclehadeen"... is it a colloquial insult?

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Rose
Cubiclehadeen

I am glad you like it
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I found this kind of interesting,
in a primary schoolish sort of way.....

"The word you've entered isn't in the dictionary. Click on a spelling suggestion below or try again using the Dictionary search box to the right."

Suggestions for Cubiclehadeen:
1. kickboards
2. captionless
3. capsulized
4. chipboards
5. capacitated
6. capsicums
7. capsulated
8. Septuagesima
9. capsulizes
10. capacitates


The meanings of a few of those words might apply to Labrat, but in an oblique sort of way.
I suppose.


Sorry, I'm just not familiar with the term "cubiclehadeen"... is it a colloquial insult?

-----------------------------------

:1orglaugh :1orglaugh :1orglaugh
I dont think you can find it in the dictionary...

I dunno...I think if a tribe of American Indians blew up Labret's house, car, cats and girlfriend, he would immediately understand their position, and give them back their land.

Exactly. Anything less would be.... uncivilized.

Such a stupid argument that can instantly be taken to the level of absurdity. And if you cant see the difference between the US and Indian Wars, and the Palestine / Israel conflict... I will start referring to you as Rose.

Your whole viewpoint of the Palestinian/Israeli conflict is absurd. Instead of taking a look at what's actually happened and what would be reasonable, all you want to do is talk about shit that happened 3000 years ago.

So...since you think Palestinians are cool for blowing up Israeli kids over land that supposedly belonged to them 3000 years ago, I'm assuming you would understand if the descendant of Angry Flying Gopher decided he wanted his great great great great grandpa's land back and blew your shit up.

p.s.

I'm already incredibly impressed by your degree in Anthropology.

I'm already impressed that you can quote religious books.

And finally, A Rose by any other name...

[Labret] is obsessed with justice, and that's a good thing.
I'm really for justice.
Actually, I expect [Labret] to say something lik:
"Before lecturing to other countries about justice, let's start at home.
Let's begin with Detroit, give it back to the Indians.
Then we'll move to NY, LA, Atlanta, San Francisco etc.
We'll won't skip any american city and the land will go back to its rightful owner".

Now, when am I gonna hear that decleration ?
Or maybe I shouldn't hold my breath ?

Again. How will you ever understand a conflict that is rooted in an argument 3000 years old, when you automatically disregard the root of the issue.

The here and now are a result of whats been happening for centuries. Somehow you clods cant grasp onto that idea.

That was so bad I thought Rose wrote it.

You're wrong. Plenty of us grasp it. You're the only one who uses it as an excuse for Palestinians to blow up kids though.

Felafel --- the comparison you are attempting to draw is an empty one. For one thing, we aren't at war with the native Americans/Native Canadians. YOU are, however, almost purpetually at war with your surrounding neighbors.

Huge difference right there.

Also, the Native N. Americans are free to take advantage of everything our free capitalist/democratic nations offer everyone, plus, at least here in Canada, they have all sorts of grants and special concessions they can take advantage of. I have a good many friends that are native Canadians, and they all are free to work, live, travel, marry, have families, etc etc, just like any other ethnicity here. They would no more think of tossing grenades into a McDonalds than they would cut of their noses.

Yes, many Native Canadians/Americans are down and out, many choose to drink Lysol and live a life of squallor, but it is just that... a choice. They are government funded, they are offered much social assistances and welfare, so if they choose not to take advantage of the free education they have at their disposal and become productive citizens, then that's their right I suppose.

But in light of that, where does that leave your arguement? As I said in my earlier post, there are only 2 choices in your situation. When looking for a solution, it is always wise to cut through all the bullshit "how's" and "why's" and get to the meat of the matter. In this case, what is going to take to solve the problem and settle the dispute? Think about it.

Well, at least you aknowledge it... you just seem to think it is an invalid reason? I have news for you. Its the only reason.

As well as the only "reason" you people wont debate on here.

Why? Because you cannot.

So until you can address and debate the root issue of this conflict, you cannot address jack shit that is going on now. Let alone understand it.

Get ready to move!

These would be valid points except for 2 things.

1) They are only at war with their neighbors because their neighbors keep declaring war on them.

2) Plenty of Palestinians work in Israel and benefit from Israel. Without Israel there would be no power, no water, and no other public services like garbage cleanup in the Palestinian areas.

The Palestinians are free to work, travel, marry, etc, until they start blowing people up. If they were as peaceful as the Indians they wouldn't be under curfew or restricted in any way.

Since you give so much credibility to things that happened in the past, when will you be selling your house, giving it back to the Indians, and paying the black people in America your share of the reparations they desire?

So then we in the USA actively have a "United" Native American conflict where they all are collectively demanding the return of large portions of the United States to its indigenous peoples?

Oh wait... no we dont, that would be Israel.

No, we don't. That's why we live in peace with the Indians. :)

If they did get together and declared war on us to get their land back, would you side with them and give them their land back? Afterall, they owned it a few short couple of hundred years ago...not thousands upon thousands...

And where's your reparations to the black people?

This post is so desgusting
I can only keep my fingers crossd
that labret gets testicle cancer,
that his balls grow to the size of mellons
and that he would have them cut off,
by a palestinian doctor

In peace? Have you ever been to an Indian Reservation?

Yes.

Is there an Indian uprising somewhere I don't know about?

I hope not. We'll have to give them back their land. :(

So then we in the USA actively have a "United" Native American conflict where they all are collectively demanding the return of large portions of the United States to its indigenous peoples?

Oh wait... no we dont, that would be Israel.

--------------------------------------------------

Yes that conflict was here. Indians didnt want us here, did they?
They fought and lost cause they were weaker. Just like Palestinians .

Do you think it was fair fight? They gave up America
only because they couldnt stop white men.

No... no uprising. But some pretty troubled people.

Not at peace.

Yeah well if they had the support a powerful nation to hand them weapons and all that crap, you can be sure some pissed off Indians would have fucked some shit up.

CDSmith, I know that the native Americans are not in a mad terror campaign.
My hypothetical point was this: what if in 2,5,10 years from now, a national movement of the Indians will be established and they will "demand" all their territories back ?
Are you going to give it back ?
No ?
Ok, what if they'll start terrorizing you ?
What if they'll send suicide bombers to target your civilians ?
Will you then return the land to the ones who held it in the first place ?
No ? Damn, you're being hard on me.
Ok, how are you gonna react to those terror attacks ?
Are you gonna negotiate with them and then end up with a settlement that goes something like "We'll give 50% of your land back" ?
No ? damn, it's really hard to argue with you.
Ok, what if people from other countries in the world will tell you "let's go 3,000 years back and see who owned the land first" ?
Will you then dismantle your countries and move to Europe ?
No ?
Why not ?
Justice should be served - shouldn't it ?

I know that you're no in war with those people right now.
My point was that if you were in conflict with the indians, you wouldn't have acted any differently than Israel.
It's easy to hold the views you're holding when it's someone else's conflict you see every evening on TV.
I have no doubt in mind that if we were talking about your own conflict (and I'm not wishing you one), your views would have been totally different.

Yes, and for valid reasons... at least to *the neighbors*. And that is why drawing a comparison between the middle east conflict and the USA/Native relationship is an empty one. Which brings us back to my ealier points, and also to Labrat's point, which are that there are only 2 possible outcomes for the region.

1) Isreal leaves. -- obviously not gonna happen.

2) War. -- Why? Because largely it's about what Labrat's trying to say here. It's about a claim to lands that dates back close to the friggen stone age. Is it right? Doesn't matter, that's the rooty-toot ROOT of the matter, and like it or not, it's not going away either.

You are missing the point I am afraid.

Ok, one more time.

I am here to aknowledge one thing basically, through all the bullshit, through all the flag covered SUVs, parades for the firemen, and endless patriotic rants... I understand why they are pissed off and blowing shit up.

Thats it... simply that I understand why its happening.

And that is something that most of you cant seem to either handle or grasp. I tell you why they are doing it, and you all start crying. I defend their position, more crying on your behalf.

Here is how a typical conversation goes:

GFYNewbie: God damn arab ******s blwing shit up.
Labret: They are doing it for reasons 1, 2, 3, 4, etc etc etc
GFYNewbie: Fuck you nazi bigot anti-american jew hating ******.

I argue you the root causes... get NO answers or debates, just more Rose ramblings and broken english interjections by Israels finest.

As for the native americans... on the same front, if the Natives all joined together and started blowing shit up.

Now here is the difference between me and you.

You and Rose will stand up and say, "God damn drunk river ******s are alwyas causing trouble. they are lucky we let them live.. they go to college for free yada yada yada".

Here is me... "Yeah, they are fucking assholes, but I understand why they are doing it... and here is why".

You guys "Fuck you you anti-american native loving race traitor piece of shit".

So if the indians rise up, I will at the very least understand why they are doing it. And that puts me head and shoulders above you two.

Did you do like I said and search for Social Darwinism? Evidently you did not. Or you did and the big words scared you away. Rubber band got twisted too tight and started causing headaches. Quick, run for the hairdye.

So all you two have managed to state with all your posts is what the rest of us already know? That the Palestinians are idiots carrying a grudge from 3000 years ago and they want all their land back even if it means refusing to live in the present and trying to move on with their lives and do something useful?

No shit. The rest of us don't have degrees in Anthropology and we already knew that.

And that puts me head and shoulders above you two.
--------------------------------------

You are not above anybody believe me Mr.Cubiclehadeen.
And dont start with your education and money, we heard that
more than once.

HAHAHAHA

That made me laugh. ;)

Let me make a few corrections...

GFYNewbie: Fucken Palestinians blew up another busload of kids today. Fuckers.
Labret: Good. Kill all the Zionists. Here is a picture of my hero (Insert pic of that arab dude armed to the teeth). He rocks. I can't wait until all the Jews are dead and pushed into the sea. (Insert some quotes from the Torah, the Koran, and some other ancient history text here)

Another difference is that the N. American indians don't have 5 or six other indian nations backing them up, and they aren't numbering like 2 or 300 million stong.

My angle here is not really to support one side or the other. My deal is that I look for the solution, and in order to do that I look and listen until I find the root causes. Then I look at the mindsets of either side and the positions they maintain, and finally I arrive at the only possible options for resolvement.

In this case, the options are pretty clear. It doesn't matter that you already knew shit, it makes no nevermind that one side is "more right than t'other", it only matters that a solution is reached one way or another. Period.

You know Cubiclehadeen.
First I thought you are just ignorant stupid who likes attention, but noooo
that's not the case