OK, I'm 45. I'm going probably be dead in 45 years. As long as I can fill up my SUV for 45 years I'm happy :)

/sarcasm

But seriously, the pollution the earth as a whole is putting out is MUCH less than it was in earlier years. We ARE going forward to those of you thinking we are the only ones affecting the earth's climate.

Me, I blame cows.

:1orglaugh :1orglaugh :1orglaugh :1orglaugh

You're right, things are so much worse today than they were less than 100 years ago. Thank God our Grandparents were worried about us getting enough oxygen ......


Pittsburgh 1906

http://www.history.uncc.edu/images/image002.jpg

http://www.gasp-pgh.org/pgh-img/pgh1906.jpg

1947

http://www.gasp-pgh.org/pgh-img/nov1...ibertytunn.jpg

1954
http://www.gasp-pgh.org/pgh-img/smokypittsburgh1.jpg

1972

http://www.gasp-pgh.org/pgh-img/1972...ckdowntown.jpg


Today

http://www.whatstaboo.com/400px-Pitt...ne_daytime.jpg

I don't think we're all trying to deny Global Warming so much as question what we really know about it. I think the science in the area is still infantile and in many cases suspect at best. Scientists and data come down on both sides of the issues. The actual track record for prediciting enviromental changes over decades is dismal at best. We simply don't know.

Imagine calling a doctor and saying "Doc I have this ..." and him responding "put a bandaid on it!". But Doc, you're suggesting a solution when you don't even understand the problem!

The reason there is no hole in the ozone layer anymore is because the united states took a lead position in eliminating the propellents that caused the hole.

Same could happen with the greenhouse gas emmissions. The technology to do so is already in place.

But the real issue is not forcing companies through government regulation to change how they operate. It's how you as an individual are willing to make simple changes to reduce the amount you personally contribute to the problem. Are you still using incandescant lightbulbs? Why?

And it goes on and on and on to figure out your own personal "carbon footprint" and reduce it. The changes we as individuals can make ourselves can flatten the upward curve of CO2.

Are you saying that you don't believe in Global Warming????

Yeah. In the 60's all the scare was global cooling. Now it's global warming.

I'm saying it's part of Earth's normal cycle it's been doing for longer than human's have existed :thumbsup

so you are basically saying that burning oil as much as possible and not caring about the environment is ok cause it might have no effect at all - perhaps - cause the experts do not completely agree on the negative effects. i'm just trying to understand your position

What kinda of car do you drive?

I drive a 1996 Saturn sl2. 40 mpg highway. I drive about 2 miles per week. I bought it new in 1996, and have barely over 30,000 miles on it. Every lightbulb in my house is compact flourescent as well. I've also reinsulated all of my windows and doors and attic. I definitely do what I can. My thermostat is below 60 right now, which is fine because this is the warmest winter on record for the northeast US so far, and my city hit 60 degrees 2 days in a row last week which were both new high temperature records, lol. :thumbsup

You do realize that there were oil wells way before man started using them, and they would catch fire and burn and burn and burn and smoke and smoke and smoke right? And how bout forest fires started by lightning? Who was there to put those out? They burned for years and years with smoke going into the atmosphere.

No, not at all. I think it's up to each of us to try and be responsible in what we do to the enviroment. I'm not advocating for reckless abuse of fossil fuels or neglecting air quality all together. I just question that panic surrounding "Global Warming" and believe we really don't know what's going to happen in the future.

Ever notice that the some people will say in "You're an idiot for believing all the war on terror hype your goverment feeds you." and in the same breath say "Forget terrorists, Global Warming's going to wipe us all out!!!"? I find this mentality particularily amusing.

I even wrote cnn the other day because they did yet another story on hybrid cars. Well fuck that, why not do a story on why GM had the tooling to make a 40mpg gasoline engine 11 years ago but today you can NOT find a US made non-hybrid car that gets 40 miles per gallon?

Pisses me off seriously. I dont know why other people dont get pissed about that one fact right there.

Why are you still driving an internal combustion powered conveyance?
Why aren't you utilizing solar panels to heat your house?

I mean I can go on and on, and take this sliding scale of fanaticism on, but at the end of the day, your "sacrifices" don't hold a candle to the massive pollution and destruction of our environment being done today by Countries, and Big Business.

I applaud you for it, but what you are doing is building a sand fort wall to stop a 100 ft tsunami about to crash onshore.

omg...its like you are in lala land...we should thank our grandparents for fouling the air for so many years...their is only one reason production like that hasnt continued...it wasnt good for us...is that not obvious to you?

Yes no disputing that. But did you know that when winter comes so late and spring so early that the Pine Bark Beetle doesnt die off and instead continues eating out the pine tree forests which then burn more than normal?

There's species nearing endangerment because the annual cycle of their prey has changed drastically in the recent years, so now their young are born and the food supply is simply not there like it has been for all known time.

I dunno, I think it's a non-controversial issue really. More people will notice at some point.

You didnt get it I see. :winkwink:

I disagree, Anthony. I really do. I think we can even use an anaolgy in the business. Would you rather try to get 10 hits to 10,000 ads? Or try to get 10,000 hits to 10 ads? I think you get there faster with 10,000 ads.

Making big businesses and backwards countries do the right thing is part of it, but it still falls on every individual to do what they can. Incidently, China's government mandated gas mileage standards are far better than the US. The US automakers are suing California because California had the audacity to require all cars sold in their state to meet emissions standards that match Chinas over the next 10 years.. how dare they, lol.

I've also looked into Solar and Wind power. I currently rent, but I would absolutely love to have a house where I could have a nice solar panel (about $20,000, I've checked), and a wind generator (price varies, but utility companies are required to buy your excess energy, and there are local ordinances on tower height to consider). As well as on-demand hot water heaters and other efficient appliances I've checked into.

I dont preach to people in SUV's or anything crazy, but I still quietly do my thing and would encourage others to at least pick up a 3 pack of compact flourescent bulbs. They work great, and with only 15 watts you get the same lumens as an old fasioned 60 watt (plus they dont burn out for 5 yrs)

Hmm and where prey tell did you harvest that information from. :1orglaugh :1orglaugh :1orglaugh :1orglaugh :1orglaugh

Just to prove I watched a particular thing people doubt I watched. :winkwink:

There was NOTHING to get ... Your answers are at the level of a 6 years old child :2 cents:

All my lights that will allow the swirly little fluorescents have them. Except of course my nice hanging lights in my dining room and kitchen which take special bulbs, does that mean I think the earth is becoming some sort of super hot tropical environment, or we all will perish due to the cars we drive? lol no. I use them because my electric bill is cheaper, and the lights are MUCH cooler than a standard bulb.

Nothing will change with this type of mentality :2 cents:

yeah..your soaring intellect must have escaped me

i know you are about 10 more days from hitting my ignore file though

Boy do I need to make a flow chart or something for you to understand? Pollution was 10 times worse in the early 1900's till around the late 1980's Why OH WHY OH WHY! Did we not have rising temperatures then? OH LORD WHY?? Wait I believe we were going to have a new ice age back then due to the pollution blocking out the sun.. YARGG BAHHH BAHHH BAHHH! I already know how easy it is to lead people down the prim rose path. Dont know why I should think it would be any different on this particular issue. :1orglaugh

Lol because I dont buy into the global warming farce? Kind of silly thing to ignore me for. :error

I dont think you can find a US Gov. admission that the increase of beetle damage is due to warming, but the Canadian gov does:

"Why is British Columbia in the midst of a mountain pine beetle epidemic?

Forests of mature lodgepole pine are prime habitat for the mountain pine beetle. The beetle also thrives under warm weather conditions. The interior of British Columbia has an abundance of mature lodgepole pine, and has experienced several consecutive mild winters and drought-like summers. Beetle populations in many parts of interior B.C. have increased to epidemic levels as a result."

http://www.for.gov.bc.ca/hfp/mountai...etle/faq.htm#2

not just that....your claims of 152 IQ or something silly was what really got me..lol

tack that onto your Bush supporting...NEO con type attitude and i doubt i would have anything left to say to you.

you seem to back anything that is controversial..but you are always on a certain side. you cling to loose change 2 like it is the bible of anti governement people..while it was merely made to ask questions....questyions people refuse to answer...but you with your 152 IQ you seem to know all.

lol...give me a fuckin break

no one here is buying into your shit

Come on we both know where you initially got the information from...

... as I said:

I LOVE pine beetles. They've caused such a problem here that my HOA allows us to cut down any and all pine trees. That means I get a great view I normally wouldn't be able to have due to the HOA rules on cutting down trees ;)

I didnt write that article for the Canadian Government. Neither did Al Gore. Neither did George Bush.

I saw the movie and looked into some of the research, yes. Whats the problem with that? I've always said that I dont listen to someone telling me what my opinion should be. I want to see WHY they have their opinion, and form my own.

I dont really think global warming is a "debate" any more. No biggy.

142 Ive tested from 138 to 145 on 4 tests. Took one in 6th grade, 1 in 9th grade, 1 in 10th grade, and 1 my senior year. High IQ really means nothing. Its just the capability your mind has to reason and hold knowledge etc.

Im running my own loose change experiment, and getting the exact results I assumed it would. You only need to plant a seed of doubt into someones mind, and they will follow lock stock and barrel.

LOL, nice bonus :) But you know it's because they know they'll burn like a torch. Not because Al Gore said it in a slideshow, hehe ;)

I see so you are saying pollution levels are worse now and thats why you think the climate is changing?

Tom, your last paragraph changed my views, and I'm sorry if I automatically generalized you as the type to preach. I based my argument on that erroneous fact.

Which dilutes my argument actually all together, as you and I are very much alike. I've changed almost all of my lightbulbs to the HE bulbs when I moved into my condo Jan last year. I got an auto temp for my AC that raises the temp it kicks on, when I'm not there, and lowers it by the time I get home.

I've already put in my ondemand hot water heater, one of the first things I did when I moved in. I installed ceiling fans in every room of my place, my electric bills are under 100 dollars every month. For 1500 sqft place, in Florida, during the summer, I'm pretty happy with it.

I've been watching climate change and what we can do about it not so much for myself, but for my children. This can be man made, it can be mother nature, the fact is, it is happening.

Better to be prepared.

sorry but that's just bs, do u have any stats to back this up? the global co2 emissions are still rising, the USA and Australia are the only two countries that didn't ratify Kyoto and the US still pollutes the world's air the most by far. but Asia is starting to catch up, great...

funny, i also watched the movie yesterday for the first time. i really like the way it is done. al gore doesn't just give his view, he backs it up with LOTS of scientific stats and facts. anyone who says global warming isn't happening is fucking ignorant. especially those glaciers on the poles melting at a very rapid and accelerated pace and the possibility of the gulf stream reverting is extremely alarming. no more fun in the US once that happens...

Pssst...

The new buzz term is "Climate Change".

Global warming was the scare tactics pre 2k.

Again, no one's saying it isn't happening. We're saying it's BEEN happening for millions and millions (probably billions) of years. There have been seashell fossils found hundreds of miles inland in the US. I doubt they were dropped there by some prehistoric tourist :thumbsup

Ask Al what killed the dinosaurs since he has millions of years of data.......oh wait, he doesn't.

What I don't understand is, how people can think that we can just do whatever we want, and there's going to be no consequences for our actions. Come on, for those of you that think like this you're in for a big shocker. We have all been abusing the earth for a very long time and at some point we will pay for it.

When we moved this same time last year, everything was covered with at least 3 feet of snow. Now...nothing. We've gotten a few flakes then it melts away cause its not cold enough.
Just took this now http://www.pinkyschoice.com/ov07.jpg
This is not a normal canadian winter:(