Drake

I've had been pro-abortion all my life until recently. The only exception I see is perhaps if the mother's life would be at great risk almost certainly resulting in her death if she went thru with child birth. But aside from that, I almost can't fathom why abortion (death of an innocent child) would ever be a valid alternative to life for it.

All of the reasons I used to think were valid seem absurd when faced with the idea that a child actually ends up getting killed in order to have an abortion.

Am I crazy?

After Shock Media

Rigged poll so I abstain.

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CaptainHowdy

Like you already said it depends on the case...

Contraceptives for during or maybe after sex always does it for me...

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Spunky

The woman should be able to choose what she wants..

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stickyfingerz

She had a choice as did the father.

Im pro life. Cant imagine having chosen to have my children disposed of. Have 2 little girls, and a hopefully boy on the way. Children are great.

Alex

Im Anti-abortion but Pro-Choice

where is that option?

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Drake

I used to feel the same way but, even when choosing life or death of another person in the making?

I saw a video recently that basically put me over the edge on the issue. I was already intellectually leaning toward anti and then I saw the video.

I will post it if ppl wish to see it. It's just grotesque. I just can't see myself agreeing that the practice is morally or intellectually right.

After Shock Media

What about rape, molestation, terminal disease, life threatening issue to mother, crack or meth babies, being absolutely unwanted and can not be supported?

P.S. No put it up for adoption bs retort either until all the pro lifers go and empty the orphanages and have no issues with gay couples adopting them as well.

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wdsguy

pro choice

$5 submissions

I love the wording..... Pro Abortion. LOL.

What happened to PRO CHOICE?

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GigoloMason

Can anyone possibally think of a worse way to phrase this question?

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After Shock Media

It is typical poll rigging. Used way to often and reason I really check the wording first.

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SomeCreep

I'm pro-death-choice. That means the mom has has the choice of aborting the baby, but only if the baby agrees. And after the baby is aborted, the doctor must also be killed, just because.

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Drake

I used to feel that way too. But when I think about it now, it would seem that a child is the only good thing to come out of a rape. Nothing can change that the rape occured and it's a tragedy. But it seems like it makes it doubly worse to kill the child, which had no choice in how it came into the world, to be aborted. The same for all the others you listed. As with the exception of the mother facing almost certain death, I would agree that aborting a baby that will only breath a few breaths and die a horrible death due to a horrid disease or drug condition perhaps is the humane thing to do.

notabook

I’m Pro-choice here within reason (no late-term abortions). /sarcasm If you want to get technical about it condoms are the biggest killer, they prevent the contraception of life. Shit… abortions are just a drop in the bucket compared to condoms. Christian radicals should go after Trojan, look how many babies didn't have a chance at getting created from those assholes! /sarcasm off

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After Shock Media

You are already associating cells splitting as a child.
My debate ends here.

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MarkMan

today Pro Life!

used to be "Pro Choice" or pro any nice thing people would like to call murder

but , the choice makes it look like a real choice.. and its not.. unless the mother's life is in Danger.. keep the child and give it for adoption

Drake

But the condom stops the human life from ever being created. The human life cycle begins at conception, not before. Sperm life has three options 1) remain in body, die and be absorbed into the body 2) be ejaculated into the environment and die 3) be ejaculated into womb - all will die except the one that fertilizes the egg. Only the last one is a human life. The others are just sperm.

DjSap

pro abortion...i dont want to pay for jazzmine's 5 babies when shes on welfare...

Abortion is a good tool to decrease the amount of idiots, poor people and criminals...why would anybody be against it?

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notabook

Exactly, look at how many unborn babies are killed thanks to condoms. MILLIONS EVERY YEAR! Those filthy bastards should be hung up by their cocks if they ever THINK about using a horrible filthy condom again! We have to let as many babies be born as possible, otherwise we're just horrible human beings. Anybody caught using a condom MUST be held accountable for their sins! Preach on brother!

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CDSmith

Too many variables to make this a two-choice black and white issue. Sorry.

Staunch pro-lifers want to make it a black and white issue and would have you believe there are no grey areas at all, the classic "you're either with us or against us" mentality.

It's great to be pro-life, and in principle that's basically what everyone should be. BUT, you nor anyone else should have the right to dictate to others what their choices should be. Fact is some people are going to seek abortions whether you or anyone likes it or not, and for that reason there has to be a caveat in the system that ensures those people will be looked after. Period.

It's a complicated issue, people will be arguing and cursing at one another and blowing up clinics long after we're all dead and gone I'm sure. But I do know that people should decide what is right for themselves and the members of their immediate family they are responsible for, but that's where it stops. Because, there ARE certain situations where abortion is if not warranted, at least understood when that course of action is chosen.

That's all I'm going to say about the issue. Agree, don't agree, whatever. Thankfully the law (at least where I am) sides with me. (for now)

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Drake

I knew somebody would call me on this. Basically here's the thing. I used to be wrapped up in the issue of when something becomes a human/child and when its not; whether it can think or not. But it seems to me none of that really matters and none of it gets at the essence of humanity. The way I see it now, human life is a cycle, which begins at conception. This is the only natural means for a human to come into existence. You, I, and everybody else on earth had to come from a fertilized egg - there is no other natural means of creation. Therefore, it is at conception that human life begins - it's not a child yet, but it's still a human life.

For example, if we made sure that no eggs could be fertilized today, humans would cease to exist in the near future. If we stop/kill the process at the beginning, we stop/kill the other from ever existing - therefore they're inextricably bound and are one and the same, only at different points on the stage of development.

he-fox

pro - abortion.

tony286

Bravo great post

Drake

They're not unborn babies that are killed, they're merely sperm cells that are killed. Unborn babies are only produced by the union of a healthy sperm cell and an egg cell.

CC

PRO-CHOICE. While I would never have an abortion myself, I do not believe the law should mandate this. It should be a CHOICE. Oh yeah, and MEN should NOT have a say in this in any way, shape, or form.

MarkMan

people don't be stupid about this, condoms are not the same

abortion clinics ask the women to come at 9 weeks.. if you see how big the child is at 9 weeks .. you wouldn't compare a fucking sperm to an abortion!!

CDSmith

You had me agreeing with you in full right up until you said this load of tripe.

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CDSmith

There are some religious groups on the planet that believe any form of contraception is tantamount to abortion.

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CC

Sorry, I don't think men will ever be able to fully understand the rigors of pregnancy/childbirth.

ronaldo

A few years ago I called the local pro-life office and asked them about rape. They took the same stance as you. For a group that plays the compassion card so freely, I find it one of the most callous stances possible.

I'm sorry, but I just can't get past looking at a raped 16 year old girl (quite frankly ANY raped woman) and having to watch her stomach grow for the next 9 months and then go through the birth. If the rape wasn't bad enough to give her nightmares for the rest of her life, now pro-lifers are basically telling her to put off her therapy for 9 months. (That's not to mention a husband having to watch it and relive HIS anger, or explaining to potential siblings why if Mommy is pregnant aren't we keeping the baby?)

You're right it wasn't the baby's fault, but the woman shouldn't be put through further mental stress for something she didn't do either.

For the record, I'm pro-choice, but I also don't believe abortions should be used as the fall back position they are so constantly today either.

CC

You are correct, sir and anyone who says otherwise is misinformed.

ronaldo

Then WOMEN should not have the right to sue the MAN for MONEY.

MarkMan

right why should we .. its not our sperm that gave that child life.. its that worm pussy that did it all by itself.

well, thats it.. i am done reading this forum. i am getting to much into this

may all the morons abort all your genetically defected babies at peace

KRL

Pro life, except in extreme cases, and even then only allow abortions within a very short time after conception.

And I think it grossly unfair the father of the child to be has absolutely no say in the decision.

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CC

My, don't you have a way with words Donating sperm is SIMPLE. Carrying and delivering a baby is a whole different ballgame and if you think otherwise, you need an education.

LiveDose

Whatever the jesus freaks are for I'm on the other side.

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notabook

Condom usage is the same thing as an after-morning pill, and not too far of a stretch as being the same thing as an abortion. Many Christians (especially Catholics) believe this as much. Regardless, just because the cells start to divide does not mean that those cells are any more special or important than a patch of skin cancer.

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ronaldo

That's a nice little addendum.

cdc806

I am for stem cell research. I am also pro abortion. Yes it is nasty and brutal. However, mommy usually knows what is best. Not you nor me. If abortion was illegal as it was long ago, you would have more mothers die because they had a hanger shoved in their uterus and bled to death. Then you would see fetuses dumped in the garbage dumps which is not cool. I believe you can legislate abortion but it will not be stopped regardless of what pro-lifers believe. Its a political thing. So what would happen if abortion was illegal and you have even more women and unborn babies die? Would pro-lifers then support legislated abortion as in the past? History repeats itself.... it always does. Sad but true.

rhon23

my body my life. I am pro choice

After Shock Media

Fuck it I will respond.
Humanity oh such a wonderful word. We are some of the most ruthless cut throat creatures on the planet. If your ideals of being humane are making a mother and or father suffer with a child of rape that will indeed be treated differently and if not still is genetically part of the rapist, it very well could carry those very traits.
Humane is preventing the suffering of something before it has to endure the pain. A child that will be born and deceased in a year or two is just prolonging life for ego. It will never procreate.
Humane is not allowing the daughter of an incestuous father to have to raise her own brother and uncle. Who very well could also be genetically fucked for life and suffer.
Humane is not allowing another unwanted child to be brought up with someone who does not want them. Possibly put through the system and if lucky gets adopted but since odds are it will be from a minority it will not be and let loose into foster care where it will be abused, molested, tortured and get extreme detachment syndrome.
Humane is knowing that the population as a whole needs controls. We are parasitic in nature and over use and exploit every possible resource we can. We are entirely over populated and if we do not correct it ourselves nature will.
Humane is respecting the choices of others regardless of your personal opinions.

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vvq

i don't think anyone is pro abortion. but a lot of people are pro choice.

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Drake

I totally understand that too. It just seems very bizarre to be able to find a reason to kill a human for essentially any reason other than self-defense or clear danger it presents for your own life.

For example, would you have wanted to be aborted if you were the product of a rape because of the stress it caused for the person carrying you in her womb? You wouldn't have a chance at living, eating ice cream, meeting that special girl, going to the park, enjoying at all the wonders of the world, because 9 months was an inconvenience (abliet major inconvenience) to somebody - not of your choice or her choice. But isn't the fact still that now there are two lives to think about and that ending one for convenience is crude.

CDSmith

EXcellent post as per usual.

As for your very last comment there, I'm all for rigorous counselling before an abortion is granted. I'm sure it's different everywhere, but I'm of the mind that every option and alternative should be explored and discussed before a final decision is made.

But in the end, if an abortion is chosen the person (or persons) should have the right to have it, in a safe environment. Banning abortion will not stop it.

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MarkMan

lol

i have 2 kids .. i know about carrying and delivering .. but adoption is not abortion.

so if you don't want a child give it away. don't kill it!

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CC

No offense, but knowing and doing are two entirely different things.

Pleasurepays

"pro life" is a loaded phrase anyway. you can't say "i am against life" without sounding like jeffrey dahmer

CDSmith

All this talk about cells dividing and when life begins etc is just so much useless smoke in this debate. Fact is, in a social issue such as this I don't believe it is your place or mine to dictate to others what their decision has to be.

The term "mind your own business" has never been more applicable than in an issue such as this.

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ronaldo

This isn't about FINDING a reason TO kill, it's having the resources available to stop future pain and suffering. I don't know of anyone that's pro-choice that envisions a future where they're GOING to have an abortion.

I understand that your focus is on the helpless baby and while I empathize, there ARE other people to consider. Pro-lifers simply ignore the other people.

As ASM pointed out above, keeping people alive for the sake of keeping them alive isn't always humane...see Terry Schiavo. Why do we consider it humane to put an animal out of their misery, but it's a god forsaken sin to put a human being out of theirs? Do animals feel more pain? Are humans not ENTITLED to the same treatment because they're a lesser species? That one I'll never understand.