sternyduke

entrprnr - you came to the wrong board if your looking for any kind of help if you are a newbie. you can't be that stupid to finally figure that out are you? yeah everybody was a newbie at some point but there is a search function in this forum.... maybe you should try using it before asking questions that have been asked 80 million times before you founfd this board.

foe

playa

ahh,, he's just spoiled by the love from his former dot com failure,,, Welcome to the real internet young man

edmo

I don't know what system you use to determine who you respect or look up to but I can say for certain that if they're making money and they've been around they've got something worthwhile to say. So judging people based on profit and experience are what you consider shitty nonsense? I didn't see you mention any qualities you deem necessary to obtain your respect.

And you go on knocking people that shit on newbies only to attempt to do the same to me? Nice. Where the fuck in my post did I mention needing help? Yeah, thanks for the laughs.

MikeEP

Yep.




Engineers, programmers, mathematicians, chemists..basically, brilliant minds that give man the ability to create brilliant innovative things.

Having tons of cash has nothing to do with a mans minds ability to think and execute on his ideas, and not the ideas of the person next to him.
Anyone can get rich by copying. I'm suppose to respect this?

Look at this industry, and take paysites for example. What do you see? 20,000 paysites that all look the same. I'm suppose to respect this and the people who choose to follow this trend? How many new erasercash style programs have come out since Lensmans? Sure those companies have cash....so what? I'm suppose to respect this? Why? Where's the brilliance? Where's the innovation? What happen to the ability to think for yourself and create differently, or even better at that?

This industry is all about competition. But the programs are boasting how many sites they have over the other programs. You have 20 paysites, but i have 30..so i'm better. But it's all still a pile of the same old shit. I'm suppose to respect this? All because they have money?

Oh, but they have the experience i can learn from! What experience? That's everyone can build on the same trends?

The one thing i do respect is the hard work it took them to get to the top....that's obviously a given. But i don't necessarily have respect what trend they choose to follow.



That last comment was meant for entrprnr.
My mistake, my apology.

quiet

not doing as well as you had hoped....

Paul Markham

In business respect, is earned by the money you earn, the people you employ, the years you have been doing it. Whether you copy some one else or not. There is no other way to calculate it.

I meet loads of better photographers than me all the time. Can they sell a single picture, can they earn a living from photography, will anyone ever publish there work? No they are just not "commercial" to innovative, new, creative.

Our stuff sells again and again, because I'm a businessmen making a product that sells. For that I get respect, even from those that who do not like me.

That is the gauge in the commercial world and this is what GFY is for "Business"

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MikeEP

I'm very quite surprised that it's you that made that remark.

drumsicle

Is it true though?

MikeEP

Very good point Charly. I guess everyone has there own form of what respect means to themselves and others. From a purely business prespective, money is king. From a creative prespective, it's mean nothing. Greatness & success, like beauty, is in the eye of the beholder. Some weight on money others in creation.


Funny you mention that, one of the best graphic designers i've ever met can't do a simple layout for the web. But when he's told what to do, his work is far superior to anything i've ever seen. hehe..


I never once doubted that this wasn't the gauge to which most live by in business. And that's perfectly fine. I just find it static..does neither harm nor good. In opinion, it's the backend that matters.

Mr.Fiction

If you respect people's ability to do business because they make a lot of money honestly, that's great. However, if you respect them as people simply because they make a lot of money, not based on the way they make that money, or on what their actual accomplishments are outside of the business world, then your judgement comes into question.

There are many rich crooks, liars, and thieves in the world.

There are many poor geniuses, artists, writers, humanitarians, etc.

I'm sure that most of you were talking about valuing someone's opinion on business when they are successful in business, but I have also met a number of people who blindly worship money and power, regardless of how it is acquired.

MikeEP

I've been in the biz since the tail end of 96. I find that creating and analyzing numbers makes me the happiest...which in turn, ends up creating more profit in the end. I think most with money will agree me, that after a while it's not about the money anymore. It's simply the chase to make that money quicker, in less time, and doing it better then the next person. It's a chase that will never get old with time.

To answer your question simply, no.

Jakke PNG

That entrepreneur dude who started this thread is funny, I wonder if he was serious.

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..and I'm off.

MikeEP

The pretty much sums it up. Thanks Mr. Fiction for the input.


Overall, in any business, I just question receiving advice from a successful business man when nothing he's actually done has been anything substancial. It's tough to find a business man who carves a new path for others to follow. A mentor like that is gold.

MikeEP

hehe...and all my rants. It usually takes me weeks to post that much on a board.

But fuck it...two nice bottles of 'Opus One' (1986, and 1994) will do that to you....like drinking pure silk.

I am not looking forward to the headache i will have when i get up...ack!!

12clicks

Successful people weigh by money, unsuccessful people pretend other things are important to hide their failure.

Mike, what is it that you do in this business?

I'm not asking as a put down, just wondering how you come by your perspective of this biz.

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ServerGenius

And online success is measured by who has the biggest mouth
and brags the most about all the money he is making?

Success is earned by the stuff you do....no need to brag about
it people will notice themselfes by then it's not necesary to post
photoshopped stats pages or post pics of your cars....that's all
just a crock of shit.

DynaMite and no I'm not successfull

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RW316

u liar!

Pathfinder

Care to take a poll on the respect that the former CEO of Enron has or any of the former Enron upper level managment has.

They all have earned millions, in some cases, hundreds of millions.

ControlThy

Exactly.

Saying someone with alot of financial resources is a respectful person is ridiculous. Money can never buy REAL respect.

MikeEP

No offense taken 12clicks. I once read in an interview by you, that you follow the money, as any smart business man would. You do both business in and out of adult, as i do as well.

I been doing one of my businesses since 17. I started putting investment deals together for investors and venture capitolist off the foreclosure market by age 18. I made these guys more money then i would ever have seen from it back then. By the time i had enough money to do on my own (by 22), i did nothing but chase the money. I never believed there was anything wrong with that, but i was missing something. I just wasn't completely happy, cause i wasn't sure what it was that was making me happy...if that makes sense. Sure i had money, i was making more then my father by age 24.

To be honest, when you have money, you have all the time in the world to think. I wasn't sure what it was that i enjoyed so much...and that drove me crazy. But I soon realized it was the creation of the deals, the chase, the business model, etc...which of course ultimately led to money, is what i really enjoyed about business in general. It's changed my whole outlook on almost everything.

I walk down the street today and notice everything. A sign, a logo on Cola can..how would i have done it or designed it to make it more appealing to the consumer? How would i have done it to make it better then the rest? How can i do it now to be better then the rest? To be honest, its like a fucken curse..lol. Walking through the supermarket? Forget it... But it's really something i incredibly enjoy. I put that passion into everything i build. A paysite takes me a little more then a month to create. My backend itself took about 11 months. It's become a truly rewarding business model for me.

So when you say successful people are measure by money, i agree with you to a point. To most, they are measure that way. I tend to measure what they've created. I love to be 'wowed,' inspired, etc. If the money they made are from building something like no other, or something innovating, then it's the most incredible combination to witness. But copying, following trends, etc, holds no merit...and plus is boring as all hell. Unfortunately, there's not to much shit you can do differently on the Adult web other then design...but that's another topic.

I love making money as just as much as the next guy, as thats always the main goal. Just what inspires me to make that cash is a little different then most, thats all.

MikeEP

pretty close to what i been trying spit out all night....damn Opus. argghh..been a while since i drank that much. Yes yes, im a lightweight.
Oh well, it was fun either way.

Gary

Hey dude, its tough when you start out. Did you know, first time i tried to introduce myself to 12clicks he actually ran me down with his car and then spit on me? Ya, its tough, now, a few years later, he only spits on me.

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AWW - Kevin

no offense 12clicks but that's bullshit





yes i did read it and i agree with you

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alias

hahaah, bitches

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BT

Would you like some chips with that wine!!!!!!!!

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Paul Markham

You have a very good point there. Thank you foe slapping me.

No rule fits every situation, so let me say now I was generalising as I usually do. I think I will change my signature.

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Pathfinder

Very few things in life are black and white. Usually there are more than one shade of gray in the area between black and white.

I am not telling you anything that you didn't know, but even I need to remind myself of this, from time to time.

mrbling

Mike,

Thats all trash what you posted,

The goal of business -> Make money

When you are successful? -> When you make the money

No its not innovation, no its not "thinking of something new", thats all crap, whatever makes the money is the most successful.

Who's successful in this business?

Spammers, partnership program owners, billing companies, big free site owners, big search engine spammers, other type of spammers.

They accrue large amounts of hits and make big money.

Did any of them innovate? No. They just did what made money and that is what makes them successful.


Drop the innovation crap, your goal in business is not to innovate, it is to MAKE MONEY.

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mrbling

Mike and others,

And to downplay their success as "non-innovative" , why didn't you do the same non-innovative shit and make millions?
It must be pretty easy to do since its so "non-innovative"


Why? Its because you can't, You are trash, you have the ball but you fumble.

These people have the ball , even though its the same shitty ball, but they take it HOME BABY , They TAKE IT HOME!

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millionare by 18 , beat that hOES

12clicks

kevin, how would you know?


Mike, I hear you but you are NEVER truly successful unless you inovate or create. money is a measure of what you've done.
There are a handful of couch geniuses on this board who constantly tell me how dumb I am.

The only answer I have is that my wife and kids live a lifestyle most people (including a young me) only dream about.
When I die, my "dumbness" will have bought my children a huge leg up in this world. However, I'm still considered dumb by a couple of guys who can't make 100.00 a day in this business.


The best measure we have in this business is money. Who cares if you're a great designer if you can't turn it into money, who cares if you've got huge traffic coming to your TGP if you can't turn it into money?

Mike, if you're drinking Opus and my cellar is full of first growths, did we fail?

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Tipsy

Innovation and creation can and often do create success but aren't measures of success in themselves (at least in this industry), as it's also true that many creative, innovative people achieve nothing and live on the poverty line. They simply don't have any other skills to make it work.

It doesn't matter how good you are at design, innovation etc. If you don't make money in this game you aren't really successful. You may have personal satisfaction and may even have succeeded up to a point but the measure of how well you have succeeded is basically how many sales/clients and bottom line, profits you have.

To claim otherwise is for the most part just people trying to give themselves and ego boost by pretending to be more successful than they are. It's also difficult to admit you're maybe not as successful as somebody else isn't it? ;) Another point though is success at this (although in most cases will) will not always equal happiness.

I hugely doubt I am in any way as successful as 12 clicks in porn. However, that doesn't mean I necessarily envy him or want to be him.

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Ignorance is never bliss.

MikeEP

What makes you think i don't?

Relax dude...This thread was never about knocking down anyone who makes money..far from it.


I was simply discussing what i personally find respectful in any business...no just adult. Nothing more, nothing less.



Your right, im totally and completely not capable. Damn, what was i thinking?


Again, was never in question..

MikeEP

As always, it does come down to the bank period. No one is arguing that statement. Hell, i would be a hyprocrite if i did. Though, once can argue that this method has cause numbers of issues in the current way things are build. Look at cars for example. Car aren't meant for longevity as they use to be. Just a very simple example, i have a friend with a brand new off the lot Chevy Tahoe. 6 months later, he's changing his heater control valve cause the thing was leaking. When he pulled it out, to replace it, the thing was a piece of plastic.


hehe..your posts are very enjoyable 12.
In response, I would have to say it depends what year they are.

12clicks

thats not what you whisper to me in icq.

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Tipsy

You said you wouldn't tell! I'm so upset I'm chucking my fake moustache away now!

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12clicks

ahahahaha!

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