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-   Fucking Around & Business Discussion (https://gfy.com/forumdisplay.php?f=26)
-   -   Too Much Media Suspends Xclusive Cash NATS License (https://gfy.com/showthread.php?t=643011)

jact 08-11-2006 12:28 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Super Negro
Maybe some of us are just not wanting to come public with solid info quite yet ;) There could quite possibly be court cases getting started that we are part of that require us not to speak publicly about what is actually happening
Then why speak at all?

Shoplifter 08-11-2006 12:53 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AsianDivaGirlsWebDude
I doubt NATS would ever take on a major Sponsor this way...but of course none of them ever shave, or look the other way when affiliates steal content, or look the other way when affiliates spam their sites.

If you believe that, welcome to Neverland.

ADG Webmaster

While I have respect for NATS for having the balls to do what they are doing, but it's clear that in doing so they are only raising a lot more questions...

Where there is smoke there is fire... So they allegedly have a tip that a small program is fiddling the numbers and investigate. This no way implies that everyone is being policed, but rather this is a chance event. So what else might be going on elsewhere?

It is now almost necessary for NATS to make a statement about the security of their service as a whole. One possibility is to start a system whereby programs could submit to voluntray monthly inspections and receive a seal of approval or whatever.

It would be nice to look at this as an opportunity to take their fine product to the next level.

rowan 08-11-2006 01:09 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shoplifter
It is now almost necessary for NATS to make a statement about the security of their service as a whole. One possibility is to start a system whereby programs could submit to voluntray monthly inspections and receive a seal of approval or whatever.
Wasn't there a company doing that a couple of years ago? ISTR they were granted access to raw data from Epoch (not sure about ccbill) to reconcile sales with affiliate stats. Opened with a big bang and I don't think I've ever heard of them since. :winkwink:

Nookster 08-11-2006 01:18 AM
I'm very glad to see that NATS keeps an eye on the numbers and cares about shady sponsors. :2 cents: :thumbsup

Nookster 08-11-2006 01:20 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shoplifter
While I have respect for NATS for having the balls to do what they are doing, but it's clear that in doing so they are only raising a lot more questions...

Where there is smoke there is fire... So they allegedly have a tip that a small program is fiddling the numbers and investigate. This no way implies that everyone is being policed, but rather this is a chance event. So what else might be going on elsewhere?

It is now almost necessary for NATS to make a statement about the security of their service as a whole. One possibility is to start a system whereby programs could submit to voluntray monthly inspections and receive a seal of approval or whatever.

It would be nice to look at this as an opportunity to take their fine product to the next level.
That's a really good idea man. :thumbsup

AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE 08-11-2006 01:27 AM
I must say I am impressed with NATS doing what they did.
IF what was happening is true.

If they are going to sell us and stick by a "Shave Proof" campaign to webmaster's then what's happened is nothing but a procedure. Appearently they have the buttons to enforce it. Harsh? Sure is but to protect the integrety of the NATS product in the eye's of all is dearly precious and can not be tainted.

AsianDivaGirlsWebDude 08-11-2006 01:42 AM
Mighty brave of NATS to take on xclusivecash - just check out these Alexa numbers...they must have been ripping off affiliates left and right:

xclusivecash.com: ranking = 339,671 (1 week avg = 975,000)

The only two sites on their program after two years:

brandilove.com = 182,602

sinamonlane.com = 1,801,951

Must have been a major player...:1orglaugh

Well, this certainly proves that no one else using NATS shaves...:winkwink:

ADG Webmaster

Paul Markham 08-11-2006 01:45 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by shap
Xxxotic i see your point but that is our industry. Here's an example.

Many many many years ago i worked for xpics. They were one of the dirtiest bastards ever. One thing they did was not allow members the ability to cancel as well as start rebilling cancelled members after a few months had passed. In otherwords THEFT. I knew this and I still promoted the hell out of xpics from my personal sites. The same way many of you know of dirty companies in our industry and still promote the shit out of them. Just because I did that does that make me someone who shouldn't be trusted today?

Our industry is full of absolute scum. We all know that. At some point each of us has dealt with and done business with a lowlife stealing piece of shit slimebag.

In my case I saw what a scamming company does and decided to do the exact opposite and run probably the most honest company around. That's just me. I may be wrong but I have a feeling the mentality at MPA today is nothing close to what it was 5 years ago.
As an industry we support sites that scam the surfer, then are surprised when they scam us.

The Ghost 08-11-2006 01:47 AM
Regardless of the outcome, i'm sure alot of people are checking out that Xclusive program to see what it is.

NATS have over 300 affiliate programs that utilize it's software for managing affiliate tracking. The law of averages would dictate there would be at least one, if not multiple attempts similar to this. Another program in this thread mentioned they had an issue with their CCbill rebills and were approached to fix it (not saying anything negative about that company at all). The most puzzling part was TMM contacting the company and the company getting defensive. However, I wasn't there so that is purely heresay. But there are individuals in every business, ours included, that are not the most business savvy. I can say from experience that TMM is proactive and more than helpful in fixing any issues that arise from the software.

I'm glad there is this extra level of checks and balances with NATS, which only carries weight if the reputation of the company doing the checking is diligent in backing up the statement of allowing "no shaving". TMM gets paid to provided affiliate programs with software, and a large portion of their business is based on reputation. If there was ever an instance of them knowingly ignorning visiable signs of fraud, it would be disasterous for TMM and programs operating with NATS. We're one of them.

TMM is actually following through on their commitment to go after and expose programs that attempt to misuse or modify their software. Not sure why anyone would be upset with TMM coming out with this announcement (besides stakeholders in Xclusive). It should be applauded. :2 cents:

martinsc 08-11-2006 01:57 AM
yo see sig :thumbsup

gooddomains 08-11-2006 01:57 AM
some interesting reading for sure

AsianDivaGirlsWebDude 08-11-2006 02:21 AM
NATS would never allow a Sponsor to shave (even though many will say, it is possible to shave with any Sponsor/Affiliate software)...

And we all know that any Sponsor who uses NATS has never shaved before or shagged a sheep...or have they???

http://www.ifad.org/photo/images/10109_73s.jpg

ADG Webmaster

crockett 08-11-2006 04:46 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by shap
But you'll push Nats programs, Ccbill affiliates programs and custom affiliate scripts? :disgust

Every single affiliate program could find a way to shave if they wanted to.
yet how many actually build it right into their system like MPA did.. It's one thing if someone figures out how to shave sales by manipulating the software and how it works as what seems to be the case with Xclusive and NATS in this topic.

However it's a totally different thing to include in the software specific tools which serve no purpose except to steal from affiliates that send traffic. Think about it Shap I know what you are trying to say, but I don't think you are thinking clearly with that statement.


Would you trade traffic on one of your free sites with someone whom used a script that would send you bot traffic at a set percentage while you sent him good quality hard link clicked traffic? If you found out that was an option in a specific trade script would you continue to trade traffic with sites that used that script?

Of course there is no guarantee that other sites might not use 3rd party scripts to send you bot traffic, but when you knew one specific script had that feature built in would you still trade with sites running it?

One is a software that was built by a company willing to help others steal and cheat one was a company that's software was manipulated with out the consent of the software company to cheat and steal.

There is a very big difference.

crockett 08-11-2006 04:58 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jact
Then why speak at all?
why do most anonymous whistle blowers speak..? To put their side of the story out there but maybe not so officially as a legit public statement. IMO some of the posts from them have somewhat painted a very good picture on what was being done and how it was being done.

Manowar 08-11-2006 05:17 AM
As an affiliate of XclusiveCash, I can say this sucks

Why 08-11-2006 05:18 AM
on the contrary, nats has access to all of thier clients admins sections at every biller they use, if they so choose. passwords to billers are shown inside of nats and stored inside of the clients databases. i wont be more specific then that, but fact of the matter is... yes indeed nats could if they so choose to, access all of thier clients ccbill, paycom, eurobill, etc admin sections.

Satan 08-11-2006 05:22 AM
Wow, very nice find Nats, Ive been using nats and love the support and software they offer.

If you want a program that doesnt Shave signup to Satancash www.satancash.com/signup.php

Satan 08-11-2006 05:26 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Why
on the contrary, nats has access to all of thier clients admins sections at every biller they use, if they so choose. passwords to billers are shown inside of nats and stored inside of the clients databases. i wont be more specific then that, but fact of the matter is... yes indeed nats could if they so choose to, access all of thier clients ccbill, paycom, eurobill, etc admin sections.

Its optional to store your UN and PW all nats need is yr account Number for the software to work correctly, so some of your info there is inncorect

Manowar 08-11-2006 05:43 AM
is it only me here who is an affiliate?

wyldblyss 08-11-2006 05:58 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 12clicks
who are you and what do you do in this business?
from your posts, you seem to be some low level employee trying to impress the board.
be quiet and pay attention. It will get you further than chirping like an uneducated bird.
Getting old sure is affecting your memory. Not one week ago you told me you DIDN'T want to know what I did in this business lol. My answer now is the same as before. I don't answer to some old guy that USED to be in the business and is trying very hard to hang on to his old glory days. You really want to know what I do, ask around. You would be EXTREMELY surprised. Now please, go buy some hair dye, take your alzheimer's medication, lube up your head and see if you can fit it up one of important people in this industry's ass because apparently that is the only way you feel you have value anymore.

gooddomains 08-11-2006 06:04 AM
is this real or fake drama ?

Mike AI 08-11-2006 06:12 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SplitInfinity
Either way, seems to me like bad business to post that sort of thing publicy on the boards..... Not sure if I am missing something, but in the real business world, those things are contractual breaches and are dealt with by attorneys....

By posting that sort of info, im sure Too Much Media may have violated any confidentiality they had in the contract regardless if the other party was wrong or not...

Not sure if I would like Nats people playing judge, jury and verdict and then posting about it before it is resolved entirely.

Am I wrong or?
Shaving IS wrong...
Im not defending the other party, just speaking in generalities...
I do not know the exact facts or details, but I see numerous possible causes of action.

DanielS 08-11-2006 06:28 AM
I trust NATS.

StuartD 08-11-2006 06:33 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Why
on the contrary, nats has access to all of thier clients admins sections at every biller they use, if they so choose. passwords to billers are shown inside of nats and stored inside of the clients databases. i wont be more specific then that, but fact of the matter is... yes indeed nats could if they so choose to, access all of thier clients ccbill, paycom, eurobill, etc admin sections.
Wrong actually. The NATS software sends transactions and receives responses from processors, and that's it.

jayeff 08-11-2006 06:43 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by crockett
yet how many actually build it right into their system like MPA did.. It's one thing if someone figures out how to shave sales by manipulating the software... However it's a totally different thing to include in the software specific tools which serve no purpose except to steal from affiliates that send traffic.
I agree entirely and in any normal industry, Mansion would have disappeared long ago. Affiliates would have stopped trusting programs which used their software and program owners, anticipating that reaction, would have switched to other scripts in droves. Pulling the offending feature wouldn't make an iota of difference because it would already be too late.

But for some reason in this business we complain about all the things we should reasonably complain about, but that's usually as far as it goes, except for childish squabbles between a couple of drama queens. We complain about Guba, but how many people, if not actually promoting them, send traffic to sites which do? How many people complain about the message boards which offer member-area content, but still promote the sponsors who support such sites. How many people could have limited their iBill losses if they had paid attention when the writing was on the wall? Etc. Etc.

modF 08-11-2006 06:56 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Manowar
As an affiliate of XclusiveCash, I can say this sucks

It COULD work out in your favor if things are set straight.

gooddomains 08-11-2006 07:31 AM
Any word from the sponsor yet ?

TarPy 08-11-2006 07:48 AM
Pichunter suspends promotion of XclusiveCash
 
Pichunter has suspended promotion of XclusiveCash, pending a direct conversation with the owners.

We have begun a thorough investigation of the stats as well.


TarPy

TheSenator 08-11-2006 07:51 AM
Is http://nats.xclusivecash.com/ done now?

What are the owners name so that I can keep an eye out for them?

TheSenator 08-11-2006 07:52 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TarPy
Pichunter has suspended promotion of XclusiveCash, pending a direct conversation with the owners.

We have begun a thorough investigation of the stats as well.


TarPy

OWNED


Don't fuck with webmasters!

TarPy 08-11-2006 07:57 AM
Initial investigation of statistics show no significant variations in rebill to sale ratios. Conversions have been lower than usual lately, however a 95% confidence interval assesment indicates that I do not find sufficient statistical deviation to assert rebill fraud.

And the recent stats just look like shitty conversions, which I'd believe.


Conversation with the program has still not occurred, and promotions have still be temporarily suspended.


TarPy

Shap 08-11-2006 08:04 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by XxXotic
Not everyone is you either Shap. :winkwink: You might have a conscience, but most of the people running larger programs don't.

"but that is our industry" so what you're saying is we should all just continue to lie down and take it? It's shit like this that makes it that way and no one is going to do anything about it unless we ourselves do something. People are too concerned over whose dick is bigger and who has the nicest car or fattest bankroll and not about policing this industry and making it a bit more ethical but no, we just roll over and allow this industry to be a safe haven for criminals. I don't get it?

It's like being on the sexual predator list, once you're on it, you're a sick fuck in the worlds eyes. Doesn't matter if you were 18 and she was 17, you're now a labeled a rapist and molestor. Regardless of whether or not 5 years down the road you suddenly develop a taste for MILF, you're still that sick fuck on the list.

They got caught and outed so no matter what, 10, 15 years from now, if people are around who were around when they got caught, they'll still be considered dishonest. So most people arent going to care if they had a change of heart after the fact. Their grand entrance into billing world left a bitter taste in a lot of peoples mouths and speaking for only for myself, fool me once, shame on you... fool me twice, shame on me, but I'm almost certain I'm not the only one who feels that way.

And for the record, I'm very quick to pull links when I think something shady is going on, other people might tolerate being stolen from, but I certainly won't. I'm not in this business to get ripped off so I don't even waste my traffic on companies I know about, I've already been ripped off more than I care to even think about :(
I agree 100% with you. As you probably know I'm one of the first people to call shady companies out. I have no problem calling out someone who is harming this industry's future. Unfortunately I'm usually the only one with the balls to do it and as a result nothing ever comes from it. People only care about the size of their checks and not the future of this industry. Live for today and fuck tomorrow. That's a shame :disgust

Shap 08-11-2006 08:06 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Markham
As an industry we support sites that scam the surfer, then are surprised when they scam us.
Exactly. That's a very quotable post. I may use it in the future :thumbsup

modF 08-11-2006 08:12 AM
[QUOTE=TheSenator]Is http://nats.xclusivecash.com/ done now?
QUOTE]


It's up just fine for me.

Why 08-11-2006 08:58 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by StuartD
Wrong actually. The NATS software sends transactions and receives responses from processors, and that's it.
hate to break it to you... but not so much. there are multiple sponsors where all needed information is stored if you know how to use it.

Why 08-11-2006 09:07 AM
regardless of what it stores or doesnt store. you shouldnt do business with people you dont trust. this strengthens many clients and webmasters trust in nats.

Rui 08-11-2006 09:18 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlienQ
I must say I am impressed with NATS doing what they did.
IF what was happening is true.

If they are going to sell us and stick by a "Shave Proof" campaign to webmaster's then what's happened is nothing but a procedure. Appearently they have the buttons to enforce it. Harsh? Sure is but to protect the integrety of the NATS product in the eye's of all is dearly precious and can not be tainted.
Wish you could explain us why you take every fucking chance you get to trash TMM and their people...seriously you seem to be overly obcessed...

gooddomains 08-11-2006 09:20 AM
don't trust noone

d00t 08-11-2006 09:26 AM
So do NATS police their own program for shaving too?

SCORE Ralph 08-11-2006 09:26 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Satan
Its optional to store your UN and PW all nats need is yr account Number for the software to work correctly, so some of your info there is inncorect
I was going to point this out. Its optional, not a requirement. We were wary about giving such info to a third party so we did our due diligence. Carry on..


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