Review sites using your content? - Page 7 - GoFuckYourself.com

rankscom · 07-14-2006, 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sarah_webinc

I wasn't being particular about your site. I rather like your site in a lot of ways, actually. I do a lot of fetish and microniche site work and when I go to a lot of sites that are reviewing a niche like BBW, for example, it is clear the people reviewing aren't looking at the site the way a surfer looking for a BBW site would. When it gets down to more specific fetishes such as balloons, for example, that is even more clear.

Maybe I should start an agency offering writers for review sites that are familiar with fetishes and microniches.

Thanks for clearing that up Sarah. I assumed it was guided in our direction since it wasn't specified.

SteveLightspeed · 07-14-2006, 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rankscom

Man, you can't help but dig further, eh?

The fact that the scores are that close in nature, means our consistent scoring model works well. If they were the same exact network, we wouldn't even score them both, we'd review one only.

The difference is Lighspeed World has 7 additional sites, simple as that. Users have more choice, and $210 worth of additional value as you would say.

Listen, I don't know if that's clearly why it's scored higher, I'm not the reviewer. But that would make sense to me.

LightspeedWorld and LightspeedGirls have exactly the same number of sites for members to choose from; members choose 1,5, or 10 from 31 sites, plus get free access to LightspeedState and LightspeedsHotshots. World and Girls are presented differently only on the tours.

Rui · 07-14-2006, 01:29 PM

looks like Steve is going berzerk again...

Ryan_TBP · 07-14-2006, 01:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by venus

I do what my members ask of me, not some review site. I will never know how you think you can speak for my customers and I will never impliment anything your reviewers suggest for the simple reason, I want to stay in business.
This is why I don't cooperate with your site any more and will not give them a password to my site.

Hey Venus,

We have your email sitting here as well that we'll get back to, but I wanted to post here too since I saw you in the thread. I think this has been brought up a bit before in a roundabout way, but we basically have to review the site from an everyday Joe perspective, and keep in mind all the other sites we look at for a fair comparison. I agree with your points 100%, and I think anyone else would too. We're not here to tell your members what they like or don't like, or why they shouldn't join your site. Your members already enjoy your site and have no need for our services. We're here to tell our own users what we thought of your site (which is still different than what they will think for sure). That's not to say they will or won't agree with us, but it's a solid point for comparison and about the best we can do.

We look at about 40 sites a week for review purposes in one form or another, and a bunch more for non-review purposes to keep our listings up to date. After all those sites, we're always craving unique content as much as possible to set one site apart from another. That's not to say you shouldn't offer other material, especially if your members are requesting it, but when we didn't find as much of the content we love most, we of course had to mention it. To some people that will matter, to a lot of others it won't at all. All we can do on our end is review sites as consistently as possible, and a if a user appreciates our method, they'll probably stick around. As people mentioned, our site isn't the be all, end all of anything. We're just here to do what we do and keep our business going the best we know how. We're very understanding when sites may not want to get involved with what we do, and of course we'll set it up so you won't get any more emails from us unless you tell us otherwise.

Far-L · 07-14-2006, 01:31 PM

I like Steve's apples and oranges point.

Also, I am not saying that price should not be considered in a review. To me it would be more fair to rank by price - but compare us to the other premium price sites with exclusive content.

But whatever... that is just my small gripe and advice to review sites. Ultimately, I feel Reviewers must be entitled to review as they see fit and by whatever criterion they decide.

By the way, Rick I still have not seen your email. Can you please resend to timlake at homegrownvideo dot com?

And please tell your reviewers that we have added tons of downloadable content so we may need a re-review soon... ;-)

SteveLightspeed · 07-14-2006, 01:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rui

looks like Steve is going berzerk again...

It does? Where? I'm not upset at all! I thought we were having an intelligent debate/discussion now!

rankscom · 07-14-2006, 01:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteveLightspeed

Wait, "THANKED YOU FOR THE SALES"? Did you get your CHECKS? I assume so, since they've all been CASHED! Did you get your Chrismas card? Cash any reward points lately? C'mon Rick, low blow.

I'm sorry if you feel like I'm still bashing on you, because I've stopped. I apologized for doing it at all.

But you DID ask for suggestions, and I've been posting them here.

Sorry I got a little upset. I stand up for and am very proud my reviewers and it's frustrating to see you "disect" snippets of their review and make their work appear "inappropriate" or "negative" without mentioning the other sie of it.

You know I want to work to be productive. We're both here to benefit from each other. I'm more than thankful for LS Cash, and the checks we receive. Understand it's tough to forget how this was all handled, so I'll officially accept your apology and move on.

rankscom · 07-14-2006, 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Far-L

I like Steve's apples and oranges point.

Also, I am not saying that price should not be considered in a review. To me it would be more fair to rank by price - but compare us to the other premium price sites with exclusive content.

But whatever... that is just my small gripe and advice to review sites. Ultimately, I feel Reviewers must be entitled to review as they see fit and by whatever criterion they decide.

By the way, Rick I still have not seen your email. Can you please resend to timlake at homegrownvideo dot com?

And please tell your reviewers that we have added tons of downloadable content so we may need a re-review soon... ;-)

Wadup Farrell! Dude, that's really weird. I sent it yesterday at 4:08 PST to that exact e-mail address. You have another e-mail I can try?

Look forward to the re-review!!

Far-L · 07-14-2006, 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rankscom

Wadup Farrell! Dude, that's really weird. I sent it yesterday at 4:08 PST to that exact e-mail address. You have another e-mail I can try?

Look forward to the re-review!!

Thanks!

I just checked all my mail folders and didn't see it. Try timlake at newdig dot com and cc to hgtimlake at hotmail just in case. (You sure you didn't send it to timlake at HOMEGROWN dot com instead of HOMEGROWNVIDEO dot com?)

rankscom · 07-14-2006, 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteveLightspeed

LightspeedWorld and LightspeedGirls have exactly the same number of sites for members to choose from; members choose 1,5, or 10 from 31 sites, plus get free access to LightspeedState and LightspeedsHotshots. World and Girls are presented differently only on the tours.

I see now where the reviewers mention in the follow-up review that it changed at one point to offer all your sites. This does make the members area exactly the same.

Since that's the case, then we'll just point users to the LS World review and remove the lower LS Girls review. It does prove that our reviewers aren't perfect. But overall the scores are pretty damn close.

rankscom · 07-14-2006, 02:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Far-L

Thanks!

I just checked all my mail folders and didn't see it. Try timlake at newdig dot com and cc to hgtimlake at hotmail just in case. (You sure you didn't send it to timlake at HOMEGROWN dot com instead of HOMEGROWNVIDEO dot com?)

Cool, done!

ladida · 07-14-2006, 02:03 PM

Shap and Steve have some internal drama between each other. I'd like to hear more about that :P

I'm guessing Steve's sales are dropping drastically. This thread totally backfired :P

SteveLightspeed · 07-14-2006, 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ladida

Shap and Steve have some internal drama between each other. I'd like to hear more about that :P

I'm guessing Steve's sales are dropping drastically. This thread totally backfired :P

Nah, I have nothing but respect for Shap. And yes, sales are down a bit, but I wouldn't use the word "drastically". Typical summer slowness.

Far-L · 07-14-2006, 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rankscom

Cool, done!

Dang -weird... I just tested them and I am getting mail to each but still not seeing yours! Call me at 206-852-5566.

Shap · 07-14-2006, 02:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ladida

Shap and Steve have some internal drama between each other. I'd like to hear more about that :P

I'm guessing Steve's sales are dropping drastically. This thread totally backfired :P

Not at all. I've got nothing but respect for Steve. He runs a tight ship and has always run his business a step ahead of most. This was just a case of me stepping in to defend a friend who got totally thrown under the bus.

ladida · 07-14-2006, 02:21 PM

Such big programs won't say it in public, i know that. But i can sense the drama.. Was just throwing that to see would anyone bite, tho i know noone would

SteveLightspeed · 07-14-2006, 02:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ladida

Such big programs won't say it in public, i know that. But i can sense the drama.. Was just throwing that to see would anyone bite, tho i know noone would

Actaully, I do have a problem with Shap. He lives in the Bahamas, and I'm jealous. Its 116 in Phoenix today!

Shap · 07-14-2006, 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ladida

Such big programs won't say it in public, i know that. But i can sense the drama.. Was just throwing that to see would anyone bite, tho i know noone would

I've been one of Steve's top 20 affiliates over the past 4 years. How can you dislike someone who sends you fat checks on a monthly basis?

VanessaTBP · 07-14-2006, 02:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteveLightspeed

1st Follow-Up Review Review: 08-31-04

#2. Too much softcore

Don't even get me started on "Too much softcore"

That's like knocking a tranny site for having too many trannies!

Hey Steve,

I just want to jump in here real quick to say I stand corrected - I'm not perfect. My reviews are subjective based on my tastes (as well as the facts) and I don't claim them to be anything other than that. I am a girl who loves hardcore porn and might tend to be pickier about softcore - that's why we have 4 reviewers.

With that said, the follow-up is from 2004 and the amount of high quality softcore sites that I've experienced since then has changed my perspective on softcore porn, and rightly so. I probably should have corrected that point in the 2nd follow-up and mistakenly overlooked it - my fault. There is definitely an audience out there for it and an appreciation for the female form without having to get DP'd is certainly something I can respect.

Vanessa

Alphonso · 07-14-2006, 02:50 PM

SteveLightspeed · 07-14-2006, 03:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VanessaTBP

Hey Steve,

I just want to jump in here real quick to say I stand corrected - I'm not perfect. My reviews are subjective based on my tastes (as well as the facts) and I don't claim them to be anything other than that. I am a girl who loves hardcore porn and might tend to be pickier about softcore - that's why we have 4 reviewers.

With that said, the follow-up is from 2004 and the amount of high quality softcore sites that I've experienced since then has changed my perspective on softcore porn, and rightly so. I probably should have corrected that point in the 2nd follow-up and mistakenly overlooked it - my fault. There is definitely an audience out there for it and an appreciation for the female form without having to get DP'd is certainly something I can respect.

Vanessa

Vanessa,

Thanks for your post, and for working to see my point of view. I appreciate that.

And to Rick,

Did you see the movie ANTS? The ants went to war with the termites -- and all were killed except one lone ant --- who came home to a hero's welcome and signs that said "1 to 0, we win!"

That's how I feel about continuing to fight here, it's not worth mutual total annihilation! My part of this "war" is over. And I apologize for starting it in the first place.

Steve Lightspeed

rankscom · 07-14-2006, 03:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteveLightspeed

Vanessa,

Thanks for your post, and for working to see my point of view. I appreciate that.

And to Rick,

Did you see the movie ANTS? The ants went to war with the termites -- and all were killed except one lone ant --- who came home to a hero's welcome and signs that said "1 to 0, we win!"

That's how I feel about continuing to fight here, it's not worth mutual total annihilation! My part of this "war" is over. And I apologize for starting it in the first place.

Steve Lightspeed

Sweet, does this mean I'm the one lone ant?

haha JK

Well it was fun while it lasted. Much different than my normal boring days staring at Golive n stuff! Back to the grind. I feel overall we both got a lot accomplished believe it or not. At the very least, we understand each other a bit better. There was a lot of good input from others also.

Peace ya'll, have a great weekend!

V_RocKs · 07-14-2006, 03:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteveLightspeed

1st Follow-Up Review Review: 08-31-04

#2. Too much softcore

Don't even get me started on "Too much softcore"

That's like knocking a tranny site for having too many trannies!

Wow... Before I was a webmaster I was a surfer. Tawnee Stone was my crush and I joined her. I also joined Jordan Capri, Taylor Little, LS-University and LS-Sorority.

Why? Because it IS SOFTCORE. Which is what I was looking for. I have a lot of friends who DON'T like Lightspeed. I have a handful who do. The ones that do all joined. The ones that don't all join different websites but not necessarily the same hardcore websites as their counterparts do.

What does this mean? Lightspeed has a loyal fanbase and there is a reason why NonNude tgp's make money, softcore tgp's make money and so do non nude and softcore websites!

Also, I can vouch for Steve's assertion that people join more than one site at full price... refer to the opening of this post.

Far-L · 07-14-2006, 04:33 PM

Rick thanks a ton for your email - just responded.

Kudos to all those that took part in the healthy debate and whose insights were shared in this thread.

ladida · 07-14-2006, 05:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shap

I've been one of Steve's top 20 affiliates over the past 4 years. How can you dislike someone who sends you fat checks on a monthly basis?

I'm sure it's vice versa aswell, so it evens out in the end. Just traffic trades basically :P
And top 20 isn't that hot really, you make ALOT more with your paysite

venus · 07-14-2006, 05:58 PM

on a positive note for TBP, over the last 9 years of doing this website stuff, I have seen tons of review sites comes and go, 99.9% of them have generally zero traffic and thats why I dont participate in review sites, they genarally used to be just free loaders looking for free passes.

The way I found TBP was from my stats, one day I st arted noticing about 1000 hits a day from some site called TBP, I checked it and watched it, then decided to let you all do the review, but untill then I had never heard of TBP. You all never emailed me, bothered me for a pass or anything else, just sent traffic, and traffic that converted pretty good for comming from a review site.

TBP is a pretty good deal, you dont ask for anything, dont bother people, you just send traffic ... Do I agree with the reviewers, not really, but its your site and its not my place to bitch or complain so I never have. Your going to do what you want to do and say what you want to say because its your traffic, your site, your time and hard effort, its how you choose to run it... I respect that ... just as I do not except it when people think they can tell me how to run my site. If its doing you well, then its serving its purpose, my review is not bad, its just uneducated / biased reviews. But I am not asking that it be changed, just decided to give my opinion since it was asked... But I still get traffic, so what do I have to complain about... Nothing except you may be doing yourself wrong if your review is inaccurate and it encourages someone who would liked my site and would have joined through your link. An inaccurate review can be more harmful then a bad review.
But overall TBP is a pretty good deal.

V

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ryan_TBP

Hey Venus,

We have your email sitting here as well that we'll get back to.

Far-L · 07-14-2006, 06:52 PM

I would have to say that the feedback we have gotten from BP has been entirely constructive and provided excellent insights toward ongoing improvements. The sign-ups are solid and the ratios great... though I am jealous to find they have people doing better than our typically fantastic conversions with them...

vanillaice · 07-14-2006, 07:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteveLightspeed

Ok, here's one more to toss your way:

LightspeedGirls and LightspeedWorld have EXACTLY the SAME interface, options, site choices, and price. In fact, they both use the same backend. They are basically two different tours for the exact same network, since August of 2005.

BUT

07-12-06 82.4 4. Lightspeed World (26)
05-20-06 80.8 6. Lightspeed Girls (19)

That's a pretty unfair dig imo. Reviews are subjective, that's a fact. If you do reviews, probably more than 1 a day, and you review the exact same site two months apart, you're likely to get similar results, but they'll never be the same. A 1.6 point difference out of 100 points is actually extremely impressive.

VOD-Dave · 07-14-2006, 09:52 PM

It's nice to see how this turned into a good business thread after things cooled down.

Jace · 07-14-2006, 10:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rankscom

If it's revshare, then yes. We've done this many times with dozens of programs so far, and only one didn't work out. Nothing is in stone, if webmasters don't make more money or aren't satisfied for any reason, we can go back to the regular price. It's our job to make that discount work to make you more money.

If it's PPS, then we'll accept their revshare program or agree to a lower PPS payout.

no offense, but someone would need to be mighty hard up for money/sales to agree to take $7 for a sale

say, for instance, my site is $24 a month, I give your surfers half off, making it $12 a month for them, and you get 60%, so I end up walking away with $4.80 a month for that members, does that even cover bandwidth for that user?

doesn't seem like a good deal from any angle...maybe I am wrong, someone break it down for me

SteveLightspeed · 07-14-2006, 10:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jace

no offense, but someone would need to be mighty hard up for money/sales to agree to take $7 for a sale

say, for instance, my site is $24 a month, I give your surfers half off, making it $12 a month for them, and you get 60%, so I end up walking away with $4.80 a month for that members, does that even cover bandwidth for that user?

doesn't seem like a good deal from any angle...maybe I am wrong, someone break it down for me

Sure, you might sell at a loss, but you make it up in volume!

Jace · 07-14-2006, 10:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteveLightspeed

Sure, you might sell at a loss, but you make it up in volume!

that would be awesome, but what if the colume doesn't come? then I am stuck with 20 members rebilling at $4 a month, and with my fucking luck those will be the 20 members that download every single video every single day

SteveLightspeed · 07-14-2006, 10:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jace

that would be awesome, but what if the colume doesn't come? then I am stuck with 20 members rebilling at $4 a month, and with my fucking luck those will be the 20 members that download every single video every single day

It's an old business school joke, poorly executed here

"Sell at a loss, but make it up in VOLUME!"

Jace · 07-14-2006, 10:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteveLightspeed

It's an old business school joke, poorly executed here

"Sell at a loss, but make it up in VOLUME!"

oh...haha...ok....I am tired man...NO JOKES!!! hahaha

JoeA · 07-15-2006, 03:23 AM

I emailed both you and Al about our review prob about 36 hrs ago, hoping to sort things out but no reply !!! I even emailed Al again as I reactivated your acct. in advance as a sign of good will...

As you'll see I never threatened legal action against Al...

Did you get the emails.. YES or NO ?

You were quick enough to come on GFY and not defend yourselves but attack me... So what are you doing now ?

bigdog · 07-15-2006, 04:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RawAlex

When the industry started moving to "all these sites for one price" they effectively screwed the affiliates in the ass pretty hard, IMHO, and here is why:

Let's say I promote a bunch of different sites in a program. Well, once a horny surfer willing to use a CC to join has joined 1 of those sites, he is 100% useless to me ever again for anything in that program, because he will have seen it all. This is doubly so for programs that have many sites that are similar in nature (gonzo porn, big tits, cumshots, whatever). The surfer pays one price, burns through the sites in a couple of month, and then when he comes back to my TGP / link sites / guide whatever, he already has 30 or 40 sites crossed off his list. All the promotion in the world isn't going to get him to sign up to any of those sites.

My feeling is that it would be better to have a lower ($9.99 per month) on individual sites rather than packaging them UP and making the effective price down to a couple of dollars per site. You get less from the surfer up front, but you can keep upselling him over and over to other sites within your network. Packaging stuff together just kills potential future sales by giving it all away now.

For me it makes money now short term and blows away long term potential. It is almost to a point where it is better for the affiliates to promote only a single "all in" site for each program rather than the individual sites.

I was just about to make a similar post. This acutally deserves it's own thread. I think perfectgonzo is the only ones trying to upsell their other sites instead of packaging them in. Proably a big reason they can pay $40 a join console free.

BoobleBob · 07-15-2006, 07:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeA

I emailed both you and Al about our review prob about 36 hrs ago, hoping to sort things out but no reply !!! I even emailed Al again as I reactivated your acct. in advance as a sign of good will...

As you'll see I never threatened legal action against Al...

Did you get the emails.. YES or NO ?

You were quick enough to come on GFY and not defend yourselves but attack me... So what are you doing now ?

Joe, of course I respond immediately to public attacks on an industry message board. Who wouldn't?

I did get your emails on Thursday. Thanks. I talked to Al about it briefly on Friday, and he forwarded me the email string between you, which I have just read over. Today is Saturday. We are not in the office, but I will email a response to you shortly.

JoeA · 07-15-2006, 07:19 AM

Thanks Bob...

As I said in an earlier post.. Even my pals find emails from my private address in their spam boxes... That's why I've chased you... LOL

I had a prob with Paycom reecntly, as an important email from them to me didn't arrive. I eventually got it via one of my Hotmail accts, so it can go both ways about emails going missing...

And I'm an impatient and grumpy old man to boot

jayeff · 07-15-2006, 07:47 AM

This isn't a poke at TBP: from their point of view, if short-sighted (IMO) I guess it makes sense. But there is a long list of sponsors giving "special discounts" on http://www.thebestporn.com/special_discounts.html to TBP surfers. Maybe someone on that list could explain why the rest of us should bother promoting their sites at higher prices?

LadyMischief · 07-15-2006, 07:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaddyHalbucks

It's perfectly legal for copyrighted material to be used on a review site under the doctrine of "fair use."

You need to Google: "fair use."

Not if you are trying to illicit some kind of barter/exchange out of the deal. It's no longer fair use as soon as you include dollarsigns or any form of bartering and business.

Just Jace · 07-15-2006, 07:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jayeff

This isn't a poke at TBP: from their point of view, if short-sighted (IMO) I guess it makes sense. But there is a long list of sponsors giving "special discounts" on thebestporn.com/special_discounts.html to TBP surfers. Maybe someone on that list could explain why the rest of us should bother promoting their sites at higher prices?

i would imagine that my surfers and TBP surfers are not the same people most of the time, and I would much rather get my $15 a month from a revshare that is selling well on my site then take the links down because someone just happend to have a better deal

by your rationale though, if you pushed a site without trials and someone also pushed that same site with trials and advertised "click here to enter site.com for $3"...would you remove the links because the sponsor was allowing someone else to sell the site for cheaper? I know you have that option to sell the site cheaper too, but you weren't

MrPinks · 07-15-2006, 07:54 AM

Yeah for some reason, I still have a problem with that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jayeff

This isn't a poke at TBP: from their point of view, if short-sighted (IMO) I guess it makes sense. But there is a long list of sponsors giving "special discounts" on http://www.thebestporn.com/special_discounts.html to TBP surfers. Maybe someone on that list could explain why the rest of us should bother promoting their sites at higher prices?

Just Jace · 07-15-2006, 07:55 AM

shit, my thinking is off....excuse the post above, I am tired and not thinking clearly

I still want to know how I benefit from giving TBP surfers a discounted rate though....this really has me thinking hard as to how it benefits me

I would think if I was so gracious to give someones site a discount for their surfers, that they would skip getting their cut out of the sale because I am doing their surfers a favor and that is making them look pretty damn good, enough to keep the surfer coming back over and over again, and that is payment right there

jayeff · 07-15-2006, 08:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Just Jace

I know you have that option to sell the site cheaper too...

If a sponsor offers, to all their affiliates, several membership options such as with/without trials, it is up to their affiliates to decide which is appropriate to their traffic and presentation. This is not an equivalent situation, because in the majority of cases, other affiliates are not given the option of a low price.

I agree there probably isn't much crossover traffic, but to the extent there is, no way am I going to sell a $30 membership to anyone who knows about TBP, checks there and finds it at $20. And if I already made a sale and the discounted price is seen later, I can wave goodbye to that surfer.

It is one thing for sponsors to reward high-selling affiliates with higher payouts, but it is another to change the pricing so that we are not competing on level terms. Either keep a single price for everyone or make the discounted prices available to everyone. We are not running retail stores (where in any case special prices are usually for limited periods or volumes) and permanent discounts of 30%, 50%, etc really puts both the sponsors and their other affiliates in a very bad light.

JJ: I'll leave this in case anyone else thinks along your original lines, but I saw your response after I posted it.

Just Jace · 07-15-2006, 08:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jayeff

If a sponsor offers, to all their affiliates, several membership options such as with/without trials, it is up to their affiliates to decide which is appropriate to their traffic and presentation. This is not an equivalent situation, because in the majority of cases, other affiliates are not given the option of a low price.

I agree there probably isn't much crossover traffic, but to the extent there is, no way am I going to sell a $30 membership to anyone who knows about TBP, checks there and finds it at $20. And if I already made a sale and the discounted price is seen later, I can wave goodbye to that surfer.

It is one thing for sponsors to reward high-selling affiliates with higher payouts, but it is another to change the pricing so that we are not competing on level terms. Either keep a single price for everyone or make the discounted prices available to everyone. We are not running retail stores (where in any case special prices are usually for limited periods or volumes) and permanent discounts of 30%, 50%, etc really puts both the sponsors and their other affiliates in a very bad light.

JJ: I'll leave this in case anyone else thinks along your original lines, but I saw your response after I posted it.

haha, yeah, i thought more after I posted it, and I agree...there needs to be a level playing field

Shap · 07-15-2006, 09:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jayeff

This isn't a poke at TBP: from their point of view, if short-sighted (IMO) I guess it makes sense. But there is a long list of sponsors giving "special discounts" on http://www.thebestporn.com/special_discounts.html to TBP surfers. Maybe someone on that list could explain why the rest of us should bother promoting their sites at higher prices?

Hi Jayeff. As you can probably see I'm on that list.

First why did we do it?
I'm am all about working with our affiliates and doing whatever I can to help them make money. I know there are alot of affilate programs that believe they are the almighty power and their affiliates should be thanking them for their existence. BULLSHIT. That's not us. I believe the affiliate and I are business partners and as their business partner I feel it is my responsibility to work with them and do my absolute best to make them more money. I'm always open to any ideas an affiliate may have in terms of promoting us.
When the discount was presented to us I thought about it for quite a while. After weighing out all the options i thought you know what I'll never know unless I try it. So we tried it. The result was our sales doubled from TBP and have remained that way since the switch. When those sales doubled it got me thinking that possibly this may be something that could benefit all our affiliates. So we ran some tests to see how $19.95/month would do. We had run tests in the past but the new stats we were seeing from TBP lead me to believe it was worth testing again for our affiliates. After running the tests it was clear that $24.95 would make our affiliates more money on their traffic.

To address your other question why should others promote us at a higher price?
I would hope our affiliates trust our expertise in making them the most money with their traffic to Twistys. Over the years we have run a number of tests. We've tried $14.95, $19.95, $24.95, Trials. After all of our tests the price point that continually made our affiliates the most money was $24.95/month. We study our numbers very carefully and we work very hard to tweak them to make our affiliates the most possible. In fact we recently made some changes to our members area that increased our retention more than 14%! The changes were watched very carefully and had the retention dropped we would have been very quick to react. We try to make very calculated and planned out decisions.

Shap · 07-15-2006, 09:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jayeff

If a sponsor offers, to all their affiliates, several membership options such as with/without trials, it is up to their affiliates to decide which is appropriate to their traffic and presentation. This is not an equivalent situation, because in the majority of cases, other affiliates are not given the option of a low price.

I agree there probably isn't much crossover traffic, but to the extent there is, no way am I going to sell a $30 membership to anyone who knows about TBP, checks there and finds it at $20. And if I already made a sale and the discounted price is seen later, I can wave goodbye to that surfer.

It is one thing for sponsors to reward high-selling affiliates with higher payouts, but it is another to change the pricing so that we are not competing on level terms. Either keep a single price for everyone or make the discounted prices available to everyone. We are not running retail stores (where in any case special prices are usually for limited periods or volumes) and permanent discounts of 30%, 50%, etc really puts both the sponsors and their other affiliates in a very bad light.

JJ: I'll leave this in case anyone else thinks along your original lines, but I saw your response after I posted it.

The problem with offering affiliates the ability to set their own price points is the affiliate does not have the benefit of seeing the backend numbers that I see. In most cases they would be guessing as to what they thought would be the best price point instead of relying on the long hours of research we do to maximize the money they make. It also would attract the wrong type of affiliate to our program. We offer a pay per signup option and the last thing i need is to be dealing with foreign affiliates ringing up fraudulent Trial sales at PPS.

I believe the crossover of review site traffic is VERY low. Review sites have created or assembled a gathering spot for the serious porn spender. I don't remember ever witnessing this in my 8 or 9 years online. The review site surfer is a serious porn consumer that is interested in spending money to get quality porn. Who knows that is my take on it, i may be very wrong about that. V Rocks has already showed me how wrong i was regarding the LS situation lol.

vanillaice · 07-15-2006, 09:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jayeff

This isn't a poke at TBP: from their point of view, if short-sighted (IMO) I guess it makes sense. But there is a long list of sponsors giving "special discounts" on http://www.thebestporn.com/special_discounts.html to TBP surfers. Maybe someone on that list could explain why the rest of us should bother promoting their sites at higher prices?

I guess the same reason I promote sites that pay me $35 PPS while I know they're paying their 'whales' $40+ PPS. If I want special discounts of prices or higher PPS payouts, I guess I should become a bigger 'player' in the industry. I've accepted it.

slapass · 07-15-2006, 09:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigdog

I was just about to make a similar post. This acutally deserves it's own thread. I think perfectgonzo is the only ones trying to upsell their other sites instead of packaging them in. Proably a big reason they can pay $40 a join console free.

but is also why lighspeedcash pays me about $40 a join on revshare as the people stay to see those other sites.

Then after a few months go by and they remember the ton of content they got at Tawneestone.com, they join again. Hopefully through my link again.

rankscom · 07-15-2006, 10:33 AM

The discounts are simply business, we're trying to maximize revenues and offer added value to our surfers. It runs on a fine line, I'll admit that. We've worked hard to establish good relationships with the affiliate programs and this is one way we can do more business together (payouts are always restructured).

Many programs have high prices on their sites to take advantage of the "impulse" traffic (TGP, free sites, etc) where price doesn't make much of a difference. From the other end, there are now sites like ours where surfers are comparing many different features, especially price. There's an opportunity there for them to improve their review and gain more exposure resulting in more signups.

I understand programs that don't want to mix big difference prices for the same site. They may want to try a very "small" discount (like Twistys and Abby), which still has a positive affect. Another route might be to build a completely fresh site with a lower price point that would take advantage of our traffic and reviews. For example, Videobox.com (our #1) site has a XMovie which is the same members area with a higher price point ($30/mo instead of $10/mo).

This industry evolves quickly and programs have to adapt to change. Review sites are becoming somewhat of a revolution in this industry that programs should pay close attention to. This train is hauling a lot of gravy!!

07-14-2006, 01:31 PM	#305
Far-L Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Seattle Posts: 6,065	I like Steve's apples and oranges point. Also, I am not saying that price should not be considered in a review. To me it would be more fair to rank by price - but compare us to the other premium price sites with exclusive content. But whatever... that is just my small gripe and advice to review sites. Ultimately, I feel Reviewers must be entitled to review as they see fit and by whatever criterion they decide. By the way, Rick I still have not seen your email. Can you please resend to timlake at homegrownvideo dot com? And please tell your reviewers that we have added tons of downloadable content so we may need a re-review soon... ;-) __________________ HomegrownCash.com, the affiliate program of Homegrown Video - The Largest Collection of Amateur XXX - Est. 1982. Contact - Email: farrell AT homegrownvideo D com Skype: hgfarl Newsweek Magazine - "Homegrown Video, the longest running series in the history of porn."

07-14-2006, 02:03 PM	#312
ladida Confirmed User Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 2,167	Shap and Steve have some internal drama between each other. I'd like to hear more about that :P I'm guessing Steve's sales are dropping drastically. This thread totally backfired :P __________________ agentGFY at gmail.com

07-14-2006, 02:21 PM	#316
ladida Confirmed User Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 2,167	Such big programs won't say it in public, i know that. But i can sense the drama.. Was just throwing that to see would anyone bite, tho i know noone would __________________ agentGFY at gmail.com

07-14-2006, 02:50 PM	#320
Alphonso Confirmed User Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: FARM Posts: 544	__________________ MEOWWWWW

07-14-2006, 04:33 PM	#324
Far-L Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Seattle Posts: 6,065	Rick thanks a ton for your email - just responded. Kudos to all those that took part in the healthy debate and whose insights were shared in this thread. __________________ HomegrownCash.com, the affiliate program of Homegrown Video - The Largest Collection of Amateur XXX - Est. 1982. Contact - Email: farrell AT homegrownvideo D com Skype: hgfarl Newsweek Magazine - "Homegrown Video, the longest running series in the history of porn."

07-14-2006, 01:29 PM	#303
Rui web Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: On icq: 85-483-060 Posts: 9,533	looks like Steve is going berzerk again...

07-14-2006, 06:52 PM	#327
Far-L Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Seattle Posts: 6,065	I would have to say that the feedback we have gotten from BP has been entirely constructive and provided excellent insights toward ongoing improvements. The sign-ups are solid and the ratios great... though I am jealous to find they have people doing better than our typically fantastic conversions with them... __________________ HomegrownCash.com, the affiliate program of Homegrown Video - The Largest Collection of Amateur XXX - Est. 1982. Contact - Email: farrell AT homegrownvideo D com Skype: hgfarl Newsweek Magazine - "Homegrown Video, the longest running series in the history of porn."

07-14-2006, 09:52 PM	#329
VOD-Dave Registered User Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 23	It's nice to see how this turned into a good business thread after things cooled down.

07-15-2006, 03:23 AM	#335
JoeA Confirmed User Join Date: May 2002 Location: London Posts: 568	To Booble Bob I emailed both you and Al about our review prob about 36 hrs ago, hoping to sort things out but no reply !!! I even emailed Al again as I reactivated your acct. in advance as a sign of good will... As you'll see I never threatened legal action against Al... Did you get the emails.. YES or NO ? You were quick enough to come on GFY and not defend yourselves but attack me... So what are you doing now ? __________________ www.saharagetsdirty.com/ www.ravishingindians.com/ www.anglo-indian-girls.com/

07-15-2006, 07:19 AM	#338
JoeA Confirmed User Join Date: May 2002 Location: London Posts: 568	Thanks Bob... As I said in an earlier post.. Even my pals find emails from my private address in their spam boxes... That's why I've chased you... LOL I had a prob with Paycom reecntly, as an important email from them to me didn't arrive. I eventually got it via one of my Hotmail accts, so it can go both ways about emails going missing... And I'm an impatient and grumpy old man to boot __________________ www.saharagetsdirty.com/ www.ravishingindians.com/ www.anglo-indian-girls.com/

07-15-2006, 07:47 AM	#339
jayeff Confirmed User Join Date: May 2001 Posts: 2,944	This isn't a poke at TBP: from their point of view, if short-sighted (IMO) I guess it makes sense. But there is a long list of sponsors giving "special discounts" on http://www.thebestporn.com/special_discounts.html to TBP surfers. Maybe someone on that list could explain why the rest of us should bother promoting their sites at higher prices?

07-15-2006, 07:55 AM	#343
Just Jace Confirmed User Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Atlanta, Ga. Posts: 239	shit, my thinking is off....excuse the post above, I am tired and not thinking clearly I still want to know how I benefit from giving TBP surfers a discounted rate though....this really has me thinking hard as to how it benefits me I would think if I was so gracious to give someones site a discount for their surfers, that they would skip getting their cut out of the sale because I am doing their surfers a favor and that is making them look pretty damn good, enough to keep the surfer coming back over and over again, and that is payment right there __________________ Do you have a blog that does over 1000 uniques a day? Contact me to make more money with it icq:102893553 aol:jacejacejacejace

07-15-2006, 10:33 AM	#350
rankscom Rick Moby Industry Role: Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Henderson, NV Posts: 433	The discounts are simply business, we're trying to maximize revenues and offer added value to our surfers. It runs on a fine line, I'll admit that. We've worked hard to establish good relationships with the affiliate programs and this is one way we can do more business together (payouts are always restructured). Many programs have high prices on their sites to take advantage of the "impulse" traffic (TGP, free sites, etc) where price doesn't make much of a difference. From the other end, there are now sites like ours where surfers are comparing many different features, especially price. There's an opportunity there for them to improve their review and gain more exposure resulting in more signups. I understand programs that don't want to mix big difference prices for the same site. They may want to try a very "small" discount (like Twistys and Abby), which still has a positive affect. Another route might be to build a completely fresh site with a lower price point that would take advantage of our traffic and reviews. For example, Videobox.com (our #1) site has a XMovie which is the same members area with a higher price point ($30/mo instead of $10/mo). This industry evolves quickly and programs have to adapt to change. Review sites are becoming somewhat of a revolution in this industry that programs should pay close attention to. This train is hauling a lot of gravy!! __________________ MyPorn.com - Porn's most anticipated free site of tomorrow. Coming Q4, 2015. Last edited by rankscom; 07-15-2006 at 10:36 AM..