I am not sending traffic to Fleshlight and here is why: - GoFuckYourself.com

jimthefiend · 05-10-2006, 08:54 AM

WTF?

My issues:

No stats at ALL in this new site 'cept sales. No click data at all. Even though the old backend rarely worked it was better than nothing.

I have tried 4 times to change some info in my account details, to no avail. It simply will NOT record the changes.

They state that they will pay out via Epass, but I cannot find ANY info to set that up.

I have some SERIOUS questions about the nature of their cookies and the way they are handled.

http://www.fleshlight.com/main/announcements.php is a joke. This does not work: "To access your affiliate account on the old fleshlight.com store, click http://www.old.fleshlight.com/main/affiliates.cfm."; possibly because the moron who wrote it is clueless on syntax, but I've tried at least 5 variations on it and the page simply does not exist.

There are all kinds of other little problems, not least is the whole phone number thing which I feel is inapropriate.

So at any rate. I have submitted SEVERAL support tickets and so far am being ignored. I decided to contact Ramos r.e. this and have been ignored as well.

I posted here asking him to hit me up.

I started THIS thread asking the same.

I sent a couple of ICQ's.

Guess what? Ignored.

Then I waited 24 hours before starting this thread.

Now look dude, seriously. I understand that you're busy gettting your ass plugged by trannys and all. I know you had to then start a thread about it. This new job is obviously chock full of serious responsibilty. I feel for ya.

I don't wanna cut into your oh so valuable time, I however have am done.

jimthefiend · 05-10-2006, 09:05 AM

I wanna make it clear that this is ME talking and no one else.

munki · 05-10-2006, 09:06 AM

It's ok... Ill take your sales.

Splum · 05-10-2006, 09:07 AM

I am starting to get the same bad vibe about Fleshlight my sales have dropped off tremendously. Think they have run their course?

Nicky · 05-10-2006, 09:08 AM

Bump for replies

CyberHustler · 05-10-2006, 09:09 AM

Where's Ramos? ... hope everything works out well

jimthefiend · 05-10-2006, 09:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Splum

I am starting to get the same bad vibe about Fleshlight my sales have dropped off tremendously. Think they have run their course?

Yes I do.

Something else interesting:

Follow your own links to their "Legends gym" thing. Look carefully at the ref codes on certain ads.

ffmihai · 05-10-2006, 09:26 AM

well i was going to start sending some traffic.. lets see some replies

u-Bob · 05-10-2006, 09:37 AM

bump
bump

jimthefiend · 05-10-2006, 09:41 AM

I'm really not trying to "slam" Ramos here, the tranny stuff was snide and maybe uncalled for. But then maybe not, I dunno.

I am pretty pissed though. I have what I feel to be SEVERAL legitimate concerns and I'm highly irritated that no one will address them.

Don't guess it matters as this point...

american pervert · 05-10-2006, 09:45 AM

ramos is in toronto, wait til he gets back to bitch.... and give him some time to fix everything... there are major changes going on.

jimthefiend · 05-10-2006, 09:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by american perv

ramos is in toronto, wait til he gets back to bitch.... and give him some time to fix everything... there are major changes going on.

Oh bullshit. He had time to start a fucking thread about getting fucked by a tranny but can't answer a business related fucking ICQ message?

And what about their support? Are they ALL in Toronto?

Even if they all WERE in Toronto that excuses none of this. Ramos is a Rep and not a tech...

Gimme a fucking break.

jimthefiend · 05-10-2006, 09:49 AM

Also yeah Perv, I agree. There ARE major changes going on: They are losing affiliates. Thats pretty major.

Fuck this I'm done. Getting a shower.

TDF · 05-10-2006, 09:51 AM

Jim Is Raginggggggggggg

StuartD · 05-10-2006, 09:54 AM

I don't promote it because I believe that it will lead to economic and social collapse around the world as men de-evolve into grunting and growning self obsessed brutes with hairy palms with a rubbery baby oil smell.

fuzebox · 05-10-2006, 10:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimthefiend

I have some SERIOUS questions about the nature of their cookies and the way they are handled.

I really don't like the fact that the first affiliate to send the surfer gets the credit, even if the surfer clicks through your link afterwards and buys. I discovered this when I had sales show up in their beta system that weren't showing up in the normal system...

Jakke PNG · 05-10-2006, 10:17 AM

Here's why I don't promote flehlight:
I buy mine in bulk and sell them myself.

Pure Evil · 05-10-2006, 10:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by american perv

ramos is in toronto, wait til he gets back to bitch.... and give him some time to fix everything... there are major changes going on.

Why? Business doesn't stop just because one person wants to go party. And don't give me that crap about going to Toronto to conduct business, because I would be willing to bet that just about everyone there already knows him and knows what he does. If he is their only rep, then I would HIGHLY recommend that they think about hiring enough people to do the job. I'm not trying to come down on you american perv (or even Ramos) so I hope you don't take it that way, it just gets irritating the way the "business" is conducted in this industry. Half of the time it's a joke.

King Adam · 05-10-2006, 10:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimthefiend

Oh bullshit. He had time to start a fucking thread about getting fucked by a tranny but can't answer a business related fucking ICQ message?

And what about their support? Are they ALL in Toronto?

Even if they all WERE in Toronto that excuses none of this. Ramos is a Rep and not a tech...

Gimme a fucking break.

This is a very valid point. Not all of Fleshlights support can be in Canada. I don't know any company that flies their entire support team there.

And if Ramos was starting new funny/silly threads, than he of course should be answering biz calls and ICQz. Thats his job now.

I've butted heads with jim on more than one occasion but I agree with him on this one.

I do like Ramos a lot .. great guy. I hope he makes taking care of affilaites his up most responsibility.

Manowar · 05-10-2006, 10:28 AM

jimthefiend is my hero

jimthefiend · 05-10-2006, 10:30 AM

Man it's like this. The ADDRESS for checks to be sent to is an office I had last year that I don't even KEEP anymore. I've been losing all kinds of mail because the change of address I filed with the post office seems to be only around 20% functional.

I can't change the address Fleshlight has on file because their back end is a rancid pile of dog shit.

I can't switch to Epass.

I'm not even sure I would get CREDIT for sales because of the cookie issue, much less paid for them.

So what? They expect me to just take it on faith that everything is copacetic?

I don't fucking think so.

beemk · 05-10-2006, 10:31 AM

ive been having the same trouble. back when it was invite only and dan was in charge i never had a problem in the world.

JD · 05-10-2006, 10:32 AM

the stats thing is a bitch and I too cannot make any changes in the user details. Tried changing my pw and email....the changes don't stick. Might be because they're using a hacked version of OsCommerce for their backend

JD · 05-10-2006, 10:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by beemk

ive been having the same trouble. back when it was invite only and dan was in charge i never had a problem in the world.

same

jimthefiend · 05-10-2006, 10:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by King Adam

This is a very valid point. Not all of Fleshlights support can be in Canada. I don't know any company that flies their entire support team there.

And if Ramos was starting new funny/silly threads, than he of course should be answering biz calls and ICQz. Thats his job now.

I've butted heads with jim on more than one occasion but I agree with him on this one.

I do like Ramos a lot .. great guy. I hope he makes taking care of affilaites his up most responsibility.

Ramos was on GFY as late as 4am this morning, so I assume that he saw at least his Tranny thread and my icqs. I like Ramos too, alot; and so I gave a good window of time for this to be resolved. I even put the fact that their online support system was apparently deleting every ticket I filed (LOL) to the back of my head.

jjjay · 05-10-2006, 10:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimthefiend

I even put the fact that their online support system was apparently deleting every ticket I filed (LOL) to the back of my head.

I delete support tickets sometimes when I really can't be bothered to answer them

seeric · 05-10-2006, 10:40 AM

nothing against ramos, but i pulled my links because of the stats thing and the fact that links and spots i placed them in generated more than 15 thousand clicks per week with similar products and the ctr to fleshlight showed numbers of 250 some odd clicks over a two week period time. not right. i hope they get their stuff together, i'd love to take some of that money. all friendship aside, i seperate biz from friends, ramos is cool, but biz can't be hurt because of the backend over there. nothin personal dude.

oh wait, i forgot, i'm a sig whore, forget what i said i know nothin about traffic!

davethetruth · 05-10-2006, 10:44 AM

Hmm sorry to hear that you've had bad luck with them.

But since you are...

We'll take any sex toy traffic anyone has and convert it if anyone wants to try us www.brscash.com

Our detailed stats of what people buy and where it's shipped to are better than any others, and we've got affiliate defined tracking.

Contact me if you want more info or a reacharound

326292549

jimthefiend · 05-10-2006, 10:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SPeRMiNaToR

Might be because they're using a hacked version of OsCommerce for their backend

You're fucking kidding me.

davethetruth · 05-10-2006, 10:45 AM

Oh and I'm having more creatives done this week, hpa, fpa, and much more. (To add to our 100s of banners)

King Adam · 05-10-2006, 10:47 AM

He logged on to his myspace page today. Maybe send him an email through that. I get lots of business emails through myspace.

Pipecrew · 05-10-2006, 10:48 AM

Some companies send webmasters to every single noname convention, even the ones some webmaster throws in his backyard. Look for the "Picture Post" and hit them up then!!

jimthefiend · 05-10-2006, 10:51 AM

Adam man, I refuse. I might as well email someone at Adult and ask for his cell phone number.

I have sent in numerous support tickets.
I have asked him twice on GFY to contact me.
I have sent 2 Icq's which I KNOW he recieved.

I've also pulled the links, so fuck it. When and IF they get their shit together I'll re-examine the issue. It's a good product, just needs to be managed better.

Now I have to go pick up the cat.

CaptainHowdy · 05-10-2006, 10:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jjjay

I delete support tickets sometimes when I really can't be bothered to answer them

!!

King Adam · 05-10-2006, 10:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimthefiend

Adam man, I refuse. I might as well email someone at Adult and ask for his cell phone number.

I have sent in numerous support tickets.
I have asked him twice on GFY to contact me.
I have sent 2 Icq's which I KNOW he recieved.

I've also pulled the links, so fuck it. When and IF they get their shit together I'll re-examine the issue. It's a good product, just needs to be managed better.

Now I have to go pick up the cat.

I hear ya. You shouldn't have to do all that in order to get some communication from them. They should be on it and want to take care of their affilaites. Sometimes I think people would rather party and make new friends/affiliates then take the time to solve a problem of an old affialite.

I took my links down as well. Their system is just too messy.

jjjay · 05-10-2006, 10:59 AM

uh oh. I can hear the sound of juicy's commission checks shrinking...

Pure Evil · 05-10-2006, 11:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by King Adam

Sometimes I think people would rather party and make new friends/affiliates then take the time to solve a problem of an old affialite.

Congratulations! You've just summed up the single biggest problem with this industry.

NoCarrier · 05-10-2006, 11:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by american perv

ramos is in toronto, wait til he gets back to bitch.... and give him some time to fix everything... there are major changes going on.

There's only ONE person taking care of webmaster issues for "Fleshlight"?

WOW!!!! That's what I call basic customer service

jimthefiend · 05-10-2006, 11:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jjjay

uh oh. I can hear the sound of juicy's commission checks shrinking...

Or growing. Maybe certain ill advised personel decisions were made. Thats a whole other topic though.

StuartD · 05-10-2006, 11:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pure Evil

Congratulations! You've just summed up the single biggest problem with this industry.

And here I thought it was the shady underbelly of scamming, spamming, cheating, shaving, conning, stealing, thieving and deceiving.

jjjay · 05-10-2006, 11:04 AM

maybe they're all too busy sampling their product

"don't get high off your own supply"

jjjay · 05-10-2006, 11:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimthefiend

Or growing. Maybe certain ill advised personel decisions were made. Thats a whole other topic though.

you can't say something like that, and not give more details...

jimthefiend · 05-10-2006, 11:08 AM

It's not my place, and I shouldnt have even said THAT.

LOL I'm outa here for a while.

TDF · 05-10-2006, 11:09 AM

i sale john doe sale stats

Pure Evil · 05-10-2006, 11:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StuartD

And here I thought it was the shady underbelly of scamming, spamming, cheating, shaving, conning, stealing, thieving and deceiving.

Yeah, the dishonesty comes in an extremely close second (only because that is found in most other industries as well).

Juicy D. Links · 05-10-2006, 11:13 AM

Jim hit me up ill see if i can do something , i have limited access n shit to backend , i just send affs n such ill see if i can get ahold of some at least to help bro.

jimthefiend · 05-10-2006, 11:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Juicy D. Links

Jim hit me up ill see if i can do something , i have limited access n shit to backend , i just send affs n such ill see if i can get ahold of some at least to help bro.

Thanks man, I'll hit ya up this afternoon. I really need to go get that cat from the vet now, he just got his balls snipped and is prolly cranky. LOL I would be.

Deej · 05-10-2006, 11:17 AM

Hope everything gets resolved soon...

Sly · 05-10-2006, 11:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by King Adam

He logged on to his myspace page today. Maybe send him an email through that. I get lots of business emails through myspace.

I'm sorry but that is absolutely hilarious that someone has to consider tracking down support through their MySpace page because they don't seem to answer anything else. I am laughing my ass off right now.

Juicy D. Links · 05-10-2006, 11:21 AM

Jim call Todd at 888-804-4453 ask for Todd , he can give a hand.

05-10-2006, 08:54 AM	#1
jimthefiend So Fucking Banned Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: icq: 121189 Posts: 18,889	I am not sending traffic to Fleshlight and here is why: WTF? My issues: No stats at ALL in this new site 'cept sales. No click data at all. Even though the old backend rarely worked it was better than nothing. I have tried 4 times to change some info in my account details, to no avail. It simply will NOT record the changes. They state that they will pay out via Epass, but I cannot find ANY info to set that up. I have some SERIOUS questions about the nature of their cookies and the way they are handled. http://www.fleshlight.com/main/announcements.php is a joke. This does not work: "To access your affiliate account on the old fleshlight.com store, click http://www.old.fleshlight.com/main/affiliates.cfm."; possibly because the moron who wrote it is clueless on syntax, but I've tried at least 5 variations on it and the page simply does not exist. There are all kinds of other little problems, not least is the whole phone number thing which I feel is inapropriate. So at any rate. I have submitted SEVERAL support tickets and so far am being ignored. I decided to contact Ramos r.e. this and have been ignored as well. I posted here asking him to hit me up. I started THIS thread asking the same. I sent a couple of ICQ's. Guess what? Ignored. Then I waited 24 hours before starting this thread. Now look dude, seriously. I understand that you're busy gettting your ass plugged by trannys and all. I know you had to then start a thread about it. This new job is obviously chock full of serious responsibilty. I feel for ya. I don't wanna cut into your oh so valuable time, I however have am done.

05-10-2006, 09:06 AM	#3
munki Do Fun Shit. Industry Role: Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OC Posts: 13,393	It's ok... Ill take your sales. __________________ “I have the simplest tastes. I am always satisfied with the best.” -Oscar Wilde

05-10-2006, 09:08 AM	#5
Nicky Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Sweden Posts: 30,070	Bump for replies __________________ gfynicky @ gmail.com

05-10-2006, 09:26 AM	#8
ffmihai keep walking... Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 7,177	well i was going to start sending some traffic.. lets see some replies __________________

05-10-2006, 09:45 AM	#11
american pervert Confirmed User Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 6,830	ramos is in toronto, wait til he gets back to bitch.... and give him some time to fix everything... there are major changes going on. __________________ I can resist everything except temptation

05-10-2006, 09:05 AM	#2
jimthefiend So Fucking Banned Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: icq: 121189 Posts: 18,889	I wanna make it clear that this is ME talking and no one else.

05-10-2006, 09:07 AM	#4
Splum Confirmed User Join Date: May 2003 Location: USA Posts: 6,195	I am starting to get the same bad vibe about Fleshlight my sales have dropped off tremendously. Think they have run their course?

05-10-2006, 09:09 AM	#6
CyberHustler Masterbaiter Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 26,442	Where's Ramos? ... hope everything works out well

05-10-2006, 09:37 AM	#9
u-Bob there's no $$$ in porn Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: icq: 195./568.-230 (btw: not getting offline msgs) Posts: 33,063	bump bump

05-10-2006, 09:41 AM	#10
jimthefiend So Fucking Banned Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: icq: 121189 Posts: 18,889	I'm really not trying to "slam" Ramos here, the tranny stuff was snide and maybe uncalled for. But then maybe not, I dunno. I am pretty pissed though. I have what I feel to be SEVERAL legitimate concerns and I'm highly irritated that no one will address them. Don't guess it matters as this point...

05-10-2006, 09:49 AM	#13
jimthefiend So Fucking Banned Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: icq: 121189 Posts: 18,889	Also yeah Perv, I agree. There ARE major changes going on: They are losing affiliates. Thats pretty major. Fuck this I'm done. Getting a shower.

05-10-2006, 09:51 AM	#14
TDF Triple OG nigga on GFY Industry Role: Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: in the BP4L family compound Posts: 27,296	Jim Is Raginggggggggggg __________________ Sig heil

05-10-2006, 09:54 AM	#15
StuartD Sofa King Band Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Outside the box Posts: 29,903	I don't promote it because I believe that it will lead to economic and social collapse around the world as men de-evolve into grunting and growning self obsessed brutes with hairy palms with a rubbery baby oil smell. __________________ This is me on facebook This is me on twitter

05-10-2006, 10:17 AM	#17
Jakke PNG ex-TeenGodFather Industry Role: Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Suomi Finland Perkele Posts: 20,306	Here's why I don't promote flehlight: I buy mine in bulk and sell them myself. __________________ ..and I'm off.

05-10-2006, 10:28 AM	#20
Manowar jellyfish Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 71,528	jimthefiend is my hero

05-10-2006, 10:30 AM	#21
jimthefiend So Fucking Banned Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: icq: 121189 Posts: 18,889	Man it's like this. The ADDRESS for checks to be sent to is an office I had last year that I don't even KEEP anymore. I've been losing all kinds of mail because the change of address I filed with the post office seems to be only around 20% functional. I can't change the address Fleshlight has on file because their back end is a rancid pile of dog shit. I can't switch to Epass. I'm not even sure I would get CREDIT for sales because of the cookie issue, much less paid for them. So what? They expect me to just take it on faith that everything is copacetic? I don't fucking think so.

05-10-2006, 10:31 AM	#22
beemk CLICK HERE Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 20,829	ive been having the same trouble. back when it was invite only and dan was in charge i never had a problem in the world. __________________ I host with Vacares

05-10-2006, 10:32 AM	#23
JD Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 22,651	the stats thing is a bitch and I too cannot make any changes in the user details. Tried changing my pw and email....the changes don't stick. Might be because they're using a hacked version of OsCommerce for their backend

05-10-2006, 10:40 AM	#27
seeric .......... Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: .......... Posts: 41,917	nothing against ramos, but i pulled my links because of the stats thing and the fact that links and spots i placed them in generated more than 15 thousand clicks per week with similar products and the ctr to fleshlight showed numbers of 250 some odd clicks over a two week period time. not right. i hope they get their stuff together, i'd love to take some of that money. all friendship aside, i seperate biz from friends, ramos is cool, but biz can't be hurt because of the backend over there. nothin personal dude. oh wait, i forgot, i'm a sig whore, forget what i said i know nothin about traffic! Last edited by seeric; 05-10-2006 at 10:41 AM..

05-10-2006, 10:44 AM	#28
davethetruth Confirmed User Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 2,806	Hmm sorry to hear that you've had bad luck with them. But since you are... We'll take any sex toy traffic anyone has and convert it if anyone wants to try us www.brscash.com Our detailed stats of what people buy and where it's shipped to are better than any others, and we've got affiliate defined tracking. Contact me if you want more info or a reacharound 326292549 __________________ Rainbow Revenue- The BEST Gay Conversions New Sex Toy Affiliate Program! Get $10.00 Just For Joining! Choose from two Sex Toy Stores to promote: BedroomSports- Since 1998 - Now New & Improved! VibratorWarehouse- New Site with Excellent Conversions!

05-10-2006, 10:45 AM	#30
davethetruth Confirmed User Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 2,806	Oh and I'm having more creatives done this week, hpa, fpa, and much more. (To add to our 100s of banners) __________________ Rainbow Revenue- The BEST Gay Conversions New Sex Toy Affiliate Program! Get $10.00 Just For Joining! Choose from two Sex Toy Stores to promote: BedroomSports- Since 1998 - Now New & Improved! VibratorWarehouse- New Site with Excellent Conversions!

05-10-2006, 10:47 AM	#31
King Adam Confirmed User Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Valley of the Sun Posts: 5,408	He logged on to his myspace page today. Maybe send him an email through that. I get lots of business emails through myspace. __________________ TWISTYSCASH.com - Proven to be One of the BEST Adult Programs Around Promote These Sites : Twistys ~ Busty Ones ~ Nicole Graves ICQ : 9 6 4 4 0 2 2 1

05-10-2006, 10:48 AM	#32
Pipecrew Master of Gfy.com Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 14,887	Some companies send webmasters to every single noname convention, even the ones some webmaster throws in his backyard. Look for the "Picture Post" and hit them up then!!

05-10-2006, 10:51 AM	#33
jimthefiend So Fucking Banned Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: icq: 121189 Posts: 18,889	Adam man, I refuse. I might as well email someone at Adult and ask for his cell phone number. I have sent in numerous support tickets. I have asked him twice on GFY to contact me. I have sent 2 Icq's which I KNOW he recieved. I've also pulled the links, so fuck it. When and IF they get their shit together I'll re-examine the issue. It's a good product, just needs to be managed better. Now I have to go pick up the cat.

05-10-2006, 10:59 AM	#36
jjjay Registered User Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 1,813	uh oh. I can hear the sound of juicy's commission checks shrinking...

05-10-2006, 11:04 AM	#41
jjjay Registered User Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 1,813	maybe they're all too busy sampling their product "don't get high off your own supply"

05-10-2006, 11:08 AM	#43
jimthefiend So Fucking Banned Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: icq: 121189 Posts: 18,889	It's not my place, and I shouldnt have even said THAT. LOL I'm outa here for a while.

05-10-2006, 11:09 AM	#44
TDF Triple OG nigga on GFY Industry Role: Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: in the BP4L family compound Posts: 27,296	i sale john doe sale stats __________________ Sig heil

05-10-2006, 11:13 AM	#46
Juicy D. Links So Fucking Banned Industry Role: Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: N.Y. -Long Island -- Posts: 122,992	Jim hit me up ill see if i can do something , i have limited access n shit to backend , i just send affs n such ill see if i can get ahold of some at least to help bro.

05-10-2006, 11:17 AM	#48
Deej I make pixels work Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: I live here... Posts: 24,386	Hope everything gets resolved soon... __________________ Deej's Designs n' What Not Hit me up for Design, CSS & Photo Retouching Icq#30096880

05-10-2006, 11:21 AM	#50
Juicy D. Links So Fucking Banned Industry Role: Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: N.Y. -Long Island -- Posts: 122,992	Jim call Todd at 888-804-4453 ask for Todd , he can give a hand.