European Lee

51

Regards,

Lee

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AmateurFlix

You won't hurt my feelings if you want to call me a racist, but that would not be true either. Neither am I anti-immigrant; the illegals are not 'immigrants' they are criminals. I have no problem with those who have arrived here legally, whether from Mexico or elsewhere.

If you notice I have never once spoken against law abiding Mexicans AT ALL. They are of no concern to me and I neither 'support them' somehow nor do I hold anything against them.

The only people I have spoken AGAINST are the criminals that enter our borders illegally, and a good many of them are Mexican. They do not tarnish the image of law abiding Mexicans to me even though they do seem to often try to dismiss their criminal border hopping as being a 'cultural issue'.

I don't think the Mexican culture itself condones criminality, though even some outspoken Mexicans here insist that it does

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AmateurFlix

LEARN ENGLISH!
You proposed a situation that does not exist for me and I told you that it was not my problem.

That is a separate matter from your second statement about the illegals coming into the US. Do you understand?
Because this really has nothing to do with the people of Mexico as far the United States is concerned.

It has to do with illegals entering the Unites States. The fact that they originate from Mexico or from Timbuktu is of no concern except for which area of the border needs to be guarded more effectively.

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escorpio

What situation did I propose that does not exist for you and isn't your problem? I am confused.

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seven

And as you could see it's not being as easy as the government expected it to be. Because it's an humanitarian crisis not a crisis that could be turned into felony by some cold-hearted racists. There's no economical evidence that illegal immigration actually harm the economy in any fashion other than the heads of racist bunch.
"These" people? so you think you are better than "these" people cause your ancestors happened to cross border early in time? And cause it was "Legal" by the white immigrants in those days to kill native Indians or drive them off their lands so your ancestors could claim they "LEGALLY" migrated to this country? You crack me up!
Most visitors overstay their VISAs and in turn become illegal aliens. However, they do abide by the laws of this country ie. all law except an immigration law yes that's a BIG BAAD Violation of law lol. Now, legal immigrant or illegal immigrant they both have a common noun in them being "immigrant" and that's for a reason and they are no criminals so far neither will they ever be except for in a racist mind maybe I'm not trying to hurt your feeling here either I'm just saying it like it is. Anyways, gotta go visit my sister-in-laws newborn twins and no, not a touch of mexican there it's all only itallian blood in their veins but please try not to become racist against them too now thou lol.

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AmateurFlix

"Here's a game YOU can play in your backyard...

Draw a line. Have a family member sit on one side, you sit on the other. On your side have lots of food, shelter and the other basic necessities of life. On the other side give them nothing. How long will it take before they cross over to your side for their own survival, regardless of how illegal you say it is?

I've tried to simplify it as much as I can for you. Have fun playing! "

This is what I was referring to.

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escorpio

You're right. I think people that repeatedly violate traffic laws should be exiled because "Laws exist for a reason and these people have demonstrated time and again that they are unwilling to follow them. They are aware that what they are doing is wrong and they continue to do it anyway - do you think that is the type of person that should be let into this country?"

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escorpio

Then this situation does not exist for me and isn't my problem, I legally cross the border several times a week.

What made it "sound like" I was born in Mexico? It was never even implied. Learn English!

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Drake

This issue is huge and the truth seems to be that, short of murdering people who illegally enter thru Mexico or a complete social and economic evolution within Mexico, the future will only see more illegal immigration.

The solutions put forth are short term and really don't solve the problem. Guest worker programs and amnesty will do nothing to stop the flow of illegal immigration from Mexico. Making the process for obtaining legal immigration easier will not stop the flow of illegal immigration either. So long as the enormous disparity between the two nations exist, people will risk everything to come over. We don't see this happen between Canada and the US because both countries offer so much to their own citizens (in the way of freedoms, opportunity, etc) so their is little necessity to risk life and limb to live illegally in either of the two countries when you already have citizenship in one of them. Whenever you have drastic economic and social differences in neighboring nations, you'll find people trying to escape into the better country.

I'm not up on my history and the hows and whys of how things came to be this way but it is this way. It seems to be me there is only two possibilities for the future. One is that large parts of current day America will become essentially extensions of Mexico (California already is?). The other possibility is that their will be a revolution in Mexico, perhaps with the assistence of the US, that will bring Mexico into the realm of a first world nation. When that happens, illegally immigration would be a issue of the past.

So I guess we should want to see more of this: 1) opening of equitable trade and industry between the two nations 2) pressure from Mexicans, Mexican-Americans, and the US on the Mexican government for reforms and to eliminate the corruption that goes on within it.

These suggestions may seem outlandish and may be we are nowhere near implementing such steps but I don't see this issue going away without them. Either the US becomes hugely Mexican-ized (and some may argue there is no problem in this at all - this is how nations evolve), or the US remains pretty much as it is with a re-invented Mexico to its south.

AmateurFlix

And why in your mind are they 'racists' to want to see the laws enforced more effectively? The laws don't target anyone by ethnicity or country of origin, only those who have broken existing laws regardless of their ethnicity/country of origin.

Yes "those" people, the illegals. Do you have a problem with the word "these"?

BTW when my ancestors crossed into this country they did it legally, they learned the language of the land, they did not ask the government for hand-outs, and they did not demand that the existing American culture accomodate them. Neither did they drive any natives off their lands when they arrived.

uhm, so you think that they're 'illegal' but they're not 'criminals'?


that makes no sense at all

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AmateurFlix

in your attempt at sarcasm you must have forgotten that those who repeatedly break traffic laws eventually lose their driver's license - a punishment fit for the crime.

Now I wonder what the appropriate punishment would be for someone who keeps breaking immigration laws.... hmmm.....

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AmateurFlix

OK, so it's not my problem or your problem. I won't ask why you brought it up in the first place.

My mistake. You mentioned in another thread somewhere about moving to Mexico after your son graduates. As you have gone to great lengths desribing the horrid conditions of the area, I assumed you would not be moving there unless it was your country of origin and you wanted to return home.

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CDSmith

Once we all finally agree on one point of view, we will have become the first group of people in history to solve a national problem by bitching about it on a message board.

It will be glorious. :D

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Webby

Any pointers to what "american values" are? I've never heard many other countries talk about their "values" - so assume this is something rare and unusual?

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Drake

American values are enshrined within the Constitution for anybody that wants to read it. They're not rare in Western nations, but to most people and most countries in the world, they probably are.

pornguy

And I am willing to bet that 60% or more of the people on this board does not know that this is inscribed on the book that the statue of liberty is holding.

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escorpio

But the punishment should be more harsh so we can really do something about those traffic lawbreakers!

Isn't that what you're proposing for illegal immigrants? Harsher laws and penalties? Correct me if I'm wrong, I'm not positive on your position on this.

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escorpio

It says "Fuck off, you gawd damn foreigners!", right?

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escorpio

I thought we were playing a "let's make simple analogies" game. My bad.


Horrid conditions do not exist all over the country. Horrid conditions exist for some people in some areas. I'm moving because I like the culture, the people and the beaches.

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Webby

Thanks Mike... always wondered where these "values" were comming from. Basically the stuff most of the western world have in place already and something almost taken from granted.

Ironically one of the most "progressive" countries with "values" is not even really considered a "western country", but "third world". Example... their Constitution on eg. on issues of privacy - even the govt have no rights to know the affairs of it's citizens. It's a democracy in the true sense and with extensive individual rights down to the air being breathed - to healthcare matching that of the US (usually ranking 2nd and 3rd with the US annually but a fraction of the cost), thru to rights to remove a govt rapidly if they misbehave. Any government officer acting in a repressive way is committing a criminal offense (the end result of that is kinda funny in that law enforcement are more "friends" than assholes with an attitude) - even drug dealers can't be raided at night since they are entitled to the right to sleep.

Funny story... taxi drivers go on strike and want their mileage rates increased - so they block all the main roads with taxis. Police come along and start wondering where to start and refer back to the government for guidance. The govt of course are wary of using "strong arm" tactics since this can be construed as "repressive" and if they took that action - they would be out of power next week.

So... instead the cab drivers and police agreed to have a football match on the highway and the loser will agree to abide with the winners terms. The taxi drivers won the game, but everyone decided to go home anyways since the point had been made and everyone needed something to eat.

Despite that, nothing is perfect, but I kinda like these values

The country is Costa Rica BTW..

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AmateurFlix

I don't think there is much of a problem with traffic laws and the consequences of breaking them at the moment - the penalties are stringent enough to deter the commission of most of those crimes already.

However people are breaking the immigration laws with seemingly very little concern for the penalties - so the penalties must be increased in order for the laws to be taken more seriously.

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AmateurFlix

I see.
Yes, that is what I was getting at. My point with the 'crossing line' instance was to demonstrate the 'complexity' you were claiming existed, not to imply that you were an illegal.

You said it was a 'complex' issue but then summed it up quickly in a few words only a few posts later.

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escorpio

The laws will continue to be broken no matter how harsh the penalties. There is little alternative for many. This is a "crime" born of the most extreme desperation. You seem to be under the impression people do it just because it's "easy", which it really isn't.

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escorpio

I'm not arguing with the "but it's ILLEGAL!" argument. That's a simple truth. Now let's take a look at why it's happening and what can be done about it. That's where it gets complex. You can sit and whine "but it's ILLEGAL!" and make harsh laws and penalties and you will not be successful at stopping it as long as you have economic disparity of that magnitude between neighboring countries.

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AmateurFlix

This is where I disagree... a more secure border will stop the vast majority of them from entering and if the few that do manage to get past that border face harsher penalties, that would undoubtedly deter even more of them.

Right now how many attempts to cross the border are successful? I have no idea, but for the sake of arguement let's say 90% of the people that try succeed. If the border is secured and that drops from 90% to let's say 1%, many will simply stop trying. Even more will stop trying if the penalties are harsher.

The logistics of the above can be viewed as simply or as complex as you want, however the concept itself is very simple - secure the border and increase the penalties.

It's so simple in fact that even those so called "rednecks" that you like to post pictures of are doing it with a volunteer group. Just imagine how easy it would be with proper funding.

None of this addresses the economic disparity you mentioned, however that is just not our problem. That is a problem that Mexico must address itself and if it needs US help to solve that problem, and the US stands to benefit from it in some way, then so be it... but the USA shouldn't be expected to bail them out at the expense of the taxpayers just to get the illegals to stop breaking the law, that's tantamount to extortion and most Americans do not and will not support it.

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Drake

That's supposed to say "revolution" not "evolution". And I wanted to add that guest worker programs and amnesty will only increase illegal immigration.

seven

Yes, it's racist cause they even came up with the idea because they thought Americans would side with them = more votes nothing else. Not because they are or not if the illegals stayed in this country or left.
Yes, I have a problem with any racist remark people make.
They did it "legally" by the standard of the white people or natives? And the government back then really didn't have any hand-outs to give out unless ofcourse your ancestors are those of the newer immigrants? In that case yes they did feed on what my ancestors built on. I fucking hate the noobs
You just keep trying to beat around the bush with that word don't you? Pretty lame man! But yes, it makes them as much of a criminal as it makes anyone running a redlight.
well, if you can ever grow out of racism oneday it'll all make sense to you but til then..

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seven

Let me find you many Americans straight from the history:

U.S. *nativism appeared in the late 1790s in reaction to the political refugees from France and Ireland. After passage of the Alien and Sedition Acts in 1798 it receded. Nativist outbursts occurred in the Northeast from the 1830s to the 1850s, primarily in response to a surge of Irish Catholic immigration. In 1836, Samuel F. B. Morse ran unsuccessfully for Mayor of New York on a Nativist ticket, receiving 1,496 votes. In New York City, an Order of United Americans (OUA) was founded as a nativist fraternity, following the Philadelphia Nativist Riots of the preceding spring and summer, in December, 1844.

The Philadelphia Nativist Riots (also known as the Philadelphia prayer riots of 1844 and the Bible Riots) were a series of riots that took place May 3 and July 4, 1844. The riots involved conflicts between nativists and recent Irish Catholic immigrants.

In 1849?50 Charles B. Allen founded a secret nativist society called the Order of the Star Spangled Banner in New York as a result of the fear of immigrants.

Should I go on?

*nativist refers to the socio-political positions taken up by those who identify themselves as "native-born".

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aico

What exactly do you think that the taxes they don't pay are for?

AmateurFlix

You can keep mindlessly squaking that word, though it doesn't mean anything. Maybe someday you'll grow up and learn to accept defeat in a logical arguement instead of shouting 'racist', but I doubt it

Or perhaps you'll encounter real racism toward yourself one day and won't throw the term around loosely for mere shock value.

They did it legally by the standard of the government that was in place in this country at the time. For some reason it matters to you what color they were... *racist*

Once more in english this time? What ancestors are you referring to? What did they build? Noobs to what? Fill everyone else reading this in on what the hell you're talking about

Which word? Illegal or criminal? I'm not beating around the bush with anything.

Under current law, unfortunately you are almost right. Fortunately that situation is being remedied and they will be treated more appropriately.

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escorpio

Those guys are not keeping anyone out of the country, they're only getting media attention.

No gawd damn beaner is gonna get the crumbs off this boy's slice of the pie!


Another fat ass American redneck jerking himself off by thinking he's keeping out them gawd damn beaners.


Camoflage? LOLOLOL


Redneck racist shows what he'd like to do.


More assholes in CAMOFLAGE!


Watch out, beaners! It's the Minutemen!


Jesus Christ, WTF is with these rednecks and all the fucking camoflage?

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Grapesoda

so what does illegal drugs mean? are you intending to redefine any word that suit yer needs? I bet yer a real hoot when ya get pulled over for speeding and stuff

Grapesoda

nice to see another intelligent person who reads and studies here at GFY

tony286

this is a smoke screen so the little people vote against their interests once again.This is the new gay marriage.

Grapesoda

well if bush and the mexicans keep it up I'm gonna swim over to canada some nite

escorpio

What the fuck are you babbling about?

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AmateurFlix

Oh aren't you clever, you make fun of the appearance of these citizens volunteering to benefit their country. Some of them you just put the word 'racist' under even though you've likely never met them or have any first hand knowledge of them.

Ever notice how none of the people like myself who support the immigration reforms never post pictures of random Mexicans and make fun of their appearance and call them names? Why not try to extend the same courtesy?

And BTW if you genuinely believe that they haven't kept ANYONE out of the country or deterred any border crossings at all, you are ignorant.

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GotGauge

MR. PRESIDENT, I'M HEADED TO MEXICO
Dear President Bush:
I'm about to plan a little trip with my family and extended family, and I
would like to ask you to assist me. I'm going to walk across the
border from the U.S. into Mexico, and I need to make a few arrangements. I
know you can help with this.

I plan to skip all the legal stuff like visas, passports, immigration quotas
and laws. I'm sure they handle those things the same way you do
here. So, would you mind telling your buddy, President Vicente Fox, that I'm
on my way over? Please let him know that I will be expecting the
following:

1. Free medical care for my entire family.
2. English-speaking government bureaucrats for all services I might need,
whether I use them or not.
3. All government forms need to be printed in English.
4. I want my kids to be taught by English-speaking teachers.
5. Schools need to include classes on American culture and history.
6. I want my kids to see the American flag flying on the top of the flag
pole at their school with the Mexican flag flying lower down.
7. Please plan to feed my kids at school for both breakfast and lunch.
8. I will need a local Mexican driver's license so I can get easy access to
government services.
9. I do not plan to have any car insurance, and I won't make any effort to
learn local traffic laws.
10. In case one of the Mexican police officers does not get the memo from
Pres. Fox to leave me alone, please be sure that all police
officers speak English.
11. I plan to fly the U.S. flag from my house top, put flag decals on my
car, and have a gigantic celebration on July 4th. I do not want any
complaints or negative comments from the locals.
12. I would also like to have a nice job without paying any taxes, and don't
enforce any labor laws or tax laws.
13. Please tell all the people in the country to be extremely nice and never
say a critical word about me, or about the strain I might place on
the economy.
I know this is an easy request because you already do all these things for
all the people who come to the U.S. from Mexico. I am sure that
Pres. Fox won't mind returning the favor if you ask him nicely. However, if
he gives you any trouble, just invite him to go quail
hunting with your V.P.
Thank you so much for your kind help.


Emailed to me!

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AmateurFlix

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KRL

In 2 minutes illegals stop working.

This should be interesting.

Don't go to a restaurant today.

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escorpio

I wouldn't make fun of their appearance if they didn't make it so damn easy with all that camoflage. I think the fact that they wear camoflage (traditional garb for war and hunting) despite the fact they're in a desert speaks volumes about how they see themselves and their "mission".

I've never met a Klansman either, but I wouldn't hesitate to call one a racist.

No, you haven't posted pictures. What you've done is worse. Condemning people to lives of poverty because you're worried there might not be enough for you is reprehensible.

If you think they've done anything but change where people cross YOU'RE ignorant. These idiots have done nothing but go sit in lawn chairs in a very small area between Douglas and Naco. Now the crossings have shifted to an area they're afriad to "patrol."

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escorpio

Beyond lame.

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2HousePlague

2hp

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AmateurFlix

So are you implying that people who are merely trying to enforce border laws are equivalent to the KKK?

LOL, your point is that I or anyone else in this country OWES them something just because they exist and they have less? Fuck you. I owe them nothing and they will get nothing from me.

This is not condemning them to anything whatsoever except an inability to trespass in areas where they do not belong.

Grow up already or go move to a communist regime where such beliefs are accepted. In this country and under this form of government they are not.

you're ignoring the many times they have reported illegals to the border patrol who apprehended them... and if they are really so ineffective, then why do they bother you so?

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GotGauge

Rush Limbaugh Laws


Right Click Save as Please

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XPorn

truth hurts?

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escorpio

Yes, I equate The Minutemen with the KKK.


Then it will be taken from you. What would you do if the situation were reversed? Would you really just say "oh well, this is my fate. I guess I better accept it and not do anything about it"?

Spin it however you like.

If being an uncaring pig is "growing up" I'm happy to be an arrested developement case.


If you have ever been to the part of the border they so bravely defend you would know there is little need for them. That area is thick with BP and has been for some time. Calling them is hardly necessary, thay've had a lock on Cochise for awhile.

They don't bother me. They're afraid to come to the area I live.

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escorpio

No. I wish xenophobia did.

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escorpio

Rush Limbaugh is a lawbreaking junkie.

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Solid Bob

I wonder if this will really happen? I doubt some people here realize just how many illegals are employed all over the place.

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