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lol you gotta admit that sounds pretty damn funny.. what else are they calling it .. how can you say your not attacking revshare when you have a thread called " Revshare DEBUNKED - One Time Only For The Sheep! " I like some of your sites , but bland statements like "I'll guarantee in writing that you will earn more with quickbuck than with any other sponsor" is kind of defeating the purpose of you trying to point out the rhetoric some companies use in promoting revshare... dont call revshare bunk because you dont like pps being called bunk , call things like they are , some companies make grandious claims on both sides of the plate :) |
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Really a great thread, except for xxxjay's inability to even PRETEND to be a professional. A shame, there is always one guy who has to try and devolve every business thread into name calling. I guess it tells the smart business people who not to do business with.
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I think they both had some great points.. Lets be realistic though when making bland generalizations If i bring the ingedients for a cake and you bake it for me , you can call the pay rate anything you want , pps , revshare or per click , but at the end of the day all that matters is how much cake you have.. if we both split the cake , who cares if we call it 50% revshare or 1/2 cake per signup. If im using pps and get more than half a cake and revshare gets me less than half a cake then pps is better, if revshare gets me more than half the cake and pps gets less then revshare is better.. |
Let me get this right: If they promote revshare it's because it makes more money for them? So why do programs push PPS? .... Perhaps, becaus it makes more money for them?
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if traffic had the value you claim in your hands you wouldn't send your exit to traffigigolos or whats that called for niches you already have paysites.
the day i'll see nastydollars doing that i'll take your reply as serious ;-) |
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You made some very good points. I agree that some of the trial limited membership area stuff seems kind of lame, but most people are here to make money and not make friends with surfers. Webmasters are greedy sons of bitches |
As a revshare sponsor, and affiliate, I must say that one must promote sites that he likes whether it's revshare or PPS. Only revshare sponsors I'll promote are ccbill or NATS sponsors....One must have a mix of both. I would never promote just revshare nor PPS.
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You apparently dont know the Busty-Amateurs.com story.
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a1r3k.. not sure if thta was directed toward the "me" "you" or the somebody else "you" :)
my understanding of busty amateurs is that they were a hugely successful revshare program who convinced many people that would only do pps to go revshare.. people made lots of money with them and then one day for whatever reason busty amateurs shut down, cancelled all members and disappeared. |
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But here is the bottom line imho: our affiliates make an average of $45 per join with revshare. What do you think i'd pay PPS? $35? $40 maybe? One way or another, I'll take into consideration the fact that I'm taking the risk and I would pay less. I hope the market will evolve toward more revshare and more transparency. We did a BIG step in that direction last year publishing ALL our retention numbers. http://www.totemcash.com/free/figures.php Our next step is to display our convertion ratios in real time. I might get less newbies affiliates not paying PPS, but I hope the bigger affiliates with more experience know better and appreciate companies that want to be transparent. My 2c |
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busty amateurs was shut down because the owner went crazy, became a jesus freak and turned off one of the most successful revshare programs to exist in that era of adult internet. he burned up all the content and turned off thousands and thousands of rebilling members. the guy lost his mind partying and living the good life. in the era when busty was huge there was no reason to ever "convince" anyone to go revshare. the internet has evolved and done a 180 since the busty days. consumers think differently. thats the facts. including them in this to reinforce your point added no weight to what you believe. i could care less really, we're operating a successful pps program now and i actually agree with what you're saying on most accounts. just leave people out of it if you don't know what went on, or ask one of us that lived through it. thats basically all i am saying. :2 cents: :) |
i use both revshare & pps..
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Airek.. i really mean no ofeense here but it seems that it IS what I thought... why is that in some way "pro revshare" ? A revshare program that went down and tons of people lost millions of dollars.
All it does is validate the fact that with revshare one puts their LONG TERM financial viability into a single pornographer. Re-read my post, one of my biggest reasons for saying revshare is disadvantageous is because if that program shuts down (ala busty amateurs) you can lose your ass... with PPS your receivables are more like 2 weeks, not 2 years. Sorry that you were caught up in it man, but it is a piece of internet history. |
personally I prefer to push revshare programs as they make me more.
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busty was at its biggest earning months when it was shut down. it was flourishing. we all got jacked. members, affiliates, employees, hosting company, you name it. somethings i would do revshare on and some i will only ever do pps. both are viable business models in the right situations. i see what you mean. we live and learn. |
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i wont be holding my breath. |
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You cannot claim to pay me more per sign up on revshare and PPS has to cheat to pay me less. |
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Here's the way I see it...
With revshare, affiliates are being paid for the revenue generated at the direct processor level only. That means initials, conversions and rebills, and that's it. So if on average, an affiliate's members generate $28.66, they receive the % cut of the average $28.66 per member. Now if their users happen to generate only $14.33 on average, then in this case, it sucks to be the affiliate. The revshare program had no risk in paying $7.16 (50%) on these joins, and in a sense the affiliate took on the risk by sending traffic to the program. Now a PPS program may also generate only $28.66 in average revenue per member. However, in calculating a payout, a PPS program will also add the ancillary revenue per user which may include cross sales, exits, upsells, mailings and countless other ways to generate revenue per member. If the PPS program figures out they can generate another $12 revenue per member on average, then it might make sense for them to offer a $35 payout. Here the program would be looking at a profit margin of about $5 per join. Obviously these aren't real numbers, but you can see how if a revshare program is generating ancillary revenue per member the same way a PPS program is, then the affiliate is getting screwed because all they're receiving is revenue at the processor level on the trials, conversions and rebills. In theory a PPS program can even take a hit at the processor level and still afford to pay an affiliate MORE than if they were paying out on revshare. You may also notice that a revshare program could potentially have higher profit margins (guaranteed 40-50%) however a PPS program will push substantially more volume because they are paying a higher rate for the traffic. Volume is the key to a successful PPS program operating at a lower profit margin per join, the same way it is with Walmart :) And just so it's dead clear, a lower profit margin for the program means that a greater portion of the money goes into the affiliate's pocket :winkwink: |
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Jay's a great guy and OcCash is good stuff but he makes tons of cash from PPS so this arguement from him always seems a little off. |
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Interesting analysis. Thanks. |
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PPS or no PPS...I'm sure we are doing more signups than the guy who started this thread. LOL |
you know so little about our business jay... every post you make is clearly personal.
plus.. signups shouldnt matter to a big bad revshare sponsor like yourself. i don't have enough fingers and toes to count how many revshare sponsors say they "will" have a pps program soon :) |
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This is getting boring. |
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Here is a Quickbuck black site: http://www.afrosluts.com/01/?nats= Here is how we do it in the OC: http://secure.phatbootyhoes.com/track/NDIzMDoxMDoxMA/ Here is a Quickbuck Asian site: http://www.asiansizzle.com/01/?nats= Here is an OCCash Asain site: http://secure.kungpaopussy.com/track/NDIzMDoxMDox/ Here is a quickbuck interracial site: http://www.darkmeatwhitetreat.com/01/?nats= Here is a REAL interracial site: http://secure.blackdickslatinchicks....DIzMDoxMDoyMA/ Here is a Quickbuck attempt at a Brazilian site: http://www.fuckmybrazilianass.com/01/?nats= Here is the grand daddy of all Brazilian sites: http://secure.brazilbang.com/track/NDIzMDoxMDoxMw/ Here is a quickbuck attempt at a MILF site: http://www.milffrenzy.com/01/?nats= Here is a real MILF site: http://secure.blackmotherfuckers.com...DIzMDoxMDoyNQ/ Are things clear yet? Half of your sites look like they are straight out of 1986. I could care less if you paid $100 per join. None of that matters if nobody is buying. So many programs just a nothing but a billing machine...they don't care about the surfers like a quility program like Bangbros does. Remember a little program called Bangbros? They were Revshare only for over 2 years. Now they are the fucking Mack Daddy. That is the business model I would rather emulate. Quility content, happy surfers, and a well presented product -- the amazing thing is the amount of surfers that join OCCash via bookmark or type-ins...that becasue they know we have the hot shit. Pissing about PPS vs. Revshare and not worrying about well designed sites and quality content is putting the horse before the cart. :2 cents: |
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Keep in mind most PPS programs offer rev-share options anyway so your attack on them doesn't really have any legs to stand on anyway. The biggest difference is that rev-share is higher risk for the affiliate than PPS, but rarely generates the greater returns that it should to balance it out. :2 cents: :2 cents: |
how are your reality sites coming jay?
oh wait.. you don't have any. |
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starting an discussion and sharing your opions about a business model... $10.00
getting all the revshare only programs so worked up that they actually come up with some good arguments... $20.00 getting jay so worked up that he spends 2 days surfing our sites and selectively picking apart our business? PRICELESS. ------ I've never even seen one of your sites jay... don't know if you have 1 or 1000, don't know if you bill with paycom/ccbill/ibill/yourself... didnt even know you were revshare til you said something. I simply don't pay attention to you except that I occassionaly read your blog to see what country's hookers you've been tasting. (not cricitizing you... you're entertaining!) I logged into occash ONE TIME to check some stats on a PRECHECKED CROSS SELL that you bought from us from one of our tours. I have no hate for you... but you're apparently trying to make this personal. |
Funcitonally, it really just breaks down to a cash flow issue and it strikes me as funny that rev-share advocates say an affiliate makes more with rev-share and then goes on to say it's impossible to support $35 a signup without engauging in shady practices.
Either an affiliate does make more with PPS, albiet possibally at the expense of the surfer in your example, or the PPS model can work just fine without anything shady going on assuming the company has the cash to cover the negative cash conversion cycle that a PPS program runs. Jay, seriously if you still can't connect the dots maybe you shouldn't be participating in business threads. |
i'm on east coast. have work to do tomorrow. won't be available for comment til morning.
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http://secure.boygirlbang.com/track/NDoxMDoyMQ/ http://secure.aluckystranger.com/track/NDoxMDoxOA/ http://secure.myfirstpornscene.com/track/NDoxMDoxNw/ http://secure.penispalooza.com/track/NDoxMDo3/ http://secure.whorewagon.com/track/NDoxMDoyNA/ I count 5. |
revshare, pps, pre-paid, pay per click.....
At the end of the day, whatever you make the most money with is best for you. I used to argue with the ins and outs of each, its pointless. Figure out what is best FOR YOU, and roll with it. :) Chris |
This thread kicks so much ass, I'm on page 2. I'm only bumping it now to remember to read the rest in the morning. Peace and hairgrease.
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Believe it or not, I totally understand what you are saying. You pay out a lot (at a loss) to your affiliates up front and make your money back when the rebills come in. I do all of our Google Adwords personally...I grasp the concept. Maybe I went to far to say they have to be scamming. Back in the day most programs were doing some shady shit. I know, I've been in this industry for over 8 years. These days -- with popup blockers, a crackdown on spam, email filtering, surfers knowing to uncheck those cross sales, surfers expecting cleaner members areas...all of those additional sources of income are slowly drying up. There is only so much you can do to cover that $35 payout for a $2.95 join. Personally, I don't like limited trials...we use a version of them but we give full access to the site you joined...the other 19 are the upsale. The big problem is it has become such a dick waving contest about how much you can pay per join that nobody can back down. I remember when Silvercash dropped their payout by 5$ and everybody freaked out. They did what they had to do. I respect them for that. I think you will see a lot more of this in the near furture. And, I've sat on panels with Lensman, Mike Price, and Tony Morgan and they said exactly what I am trying to explain to you now. You can only bleed so much money out of a trial join. There are a lot of trial hoppers out there...as I am sure you know. |
I love the world
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