Wrong. Exits traffic, cross sales, members area upsales, ex member mailing, revshare affiliates, etc. So many methods of revenue generation a pps program uses. Not everyone is out to fuck you to survive.

You're wrong again. I AM a PPS Sponsor, and I give the resellers their "quick buck" (PPS) because that's what resellers want. The quick buck. And I know I will make money in the long run & I'm confident enough in my product to know that I will. We just gave our resellers a full week of $45 payouts. Why? Because we know we'll make money in the long run. Simple.

Again, you're missing MY point... CONTENT

And correct me if I'm wrong, but arent you a PPS sponsor preaching that PPS will make resellers more money? Of course you are. Why? Because it makes you more money.

That's BS. I'll give an example. One sponsor I use has both options. Now I can get $30 per sale or 65% revshare. Actually I can get $32.50 per sale if I make 50 sales a week but I won't count that since this bonus isn't offered with revsahre. Anyways trial is $5 so 65% of $5 is $3.25 Monthly is $25 so 65% of that is $16.25. So let's do some math

IF

100% of trials recur( yeah right ) then 65% of those would have to recur for 2 months or more to break even or do better.

50% trials recur then 71% for 3 months 29% for 4 months.

25% trials recur( most realistic ) 42% have to recur for 6 months 58% recur for 7 months. Sorry that shit aint happening.

Only way revshare would work MAYBE is if I promoted the monthly only and that's only if I could get the same amount of sales as I would promoting the trial. And that's very doubtful. Revshare depends too much on getting that once in a blue moon guy who recurs for 3 years in a row. And who is too say I'm going to be alive in 3 years or that program will exist in 3 years.

Show me a sponsor that will pay me 100% of a trial 90% on recurring and can prove that at least 75% of trials convert to monthly then maybe a promote revshare.

Shows how naive you are assuming I'm a newbie.

I'm all for it ...preach all day that PPS makes more for resellers. Absolutely. Makes more money for me in the end. :)

here's the truth. the hard fucking truth.


any - and I mean ANYONE who feels the need to publically put down another program to put theirs up is usually the one with the scammy program.

do i trust PPS - only from those companies i TRUST

do i trust revshare - only from those companies I trust


and the fact is - i trust PEOPLE - not companies. and base my decisions on that

Doesn't matter, most of them are still shaving in one way or another. That's just the way it is.
You can deny it all you want and show me spreadsheets with the voodoo math and all of that shit, but retention in this business is at an all time low and there are very very few programs that can pay out an honest $35 per signup.

I don't think so.
What makes my traffic any different from anyone else's traffic? It's no secret where I get my traffic from.

If running a revshare program produced the sales volume a PPS program generated, I think we'd all be happy running revshare programs. Large sales volume opens up the additional revenue streams for a program to make money. This is possible because *affiliates* want PPS.

There are clearly more revshare programs out there than pps programs, yet PPS is more popular. And you think the program owners wanna fuck you and make more money? Or maybe it's because affiliates AND program owners make more with PPS.

You say that PPS programs cant make enough $$ per member to pay $35.00 per join, but on your revshare example you said you are making $34.00. If this is a 50/50 program, it brought in $68.00 per join. I think if the PPS program made $68.00 per member, they can pay $35.00 per join without shaving.

Lou

Cincuenta!.......... :)

Ooops I think you used logic on him.

Jeeez, and I am no rocket scientist either.:winkwink:

51............

Paging .. 52... 52... needed in service elevator.

I said MOST programs aren't bringing in enough to pay $35 per signup.

Hit your "Esc" key to make the pain go away from any idiotic animated banner :)

Ok so MOST programs don't bring in $68 per membe,r then by the same logic them MOST programs couldn't pay you $34 per memebr on 50/50 revshare either.

What you are saying here is that you support PPS because it makes you, the program owner more money. Thus admitting that your affiliates would be better off if you were a revshare sponsor.

Great tip! Thank you, that banner was driving me crazy too.:thumbsup

LOL! Preach on brother, preach on :pimp

DH

and here's webmastering 101 for you (page 1, starting from the top):

1. I shall NEVER use flashing banner!!!!!!!!!!

I've noticed your posts before and on just about every ocasion (with this one exception) I closed the browser window simply because of your banner, the people that actually CLICK on your banner are the people that got connected to the Internet yesterday and think that you're supposed to click on anything that flashes in front of you

with that said, I'm with you on the PPS v/s revshare

It all depends - if you're talking about a small niche, it really does affect retention. And while a rev-share sponsor may be able to afford PPS, in a small niche it isn't necessarily the smarter move unless you know *where* the affiiate's traffic is coming from - or unless you restrict the PPS signup option to people whose traffic you know and trust.

The reason is simple. When a high-quality program is selling a very specific niche, traffic specific to that niche is going to retain much better than the "average." Traffic coming from god-knows-where is going to retain much, much, much, much worse. (add another "much" to that.) And there are a lot more of the latter than the former.

If I know that someone is sending me traffic from a good source in my niche, I'm happy to pay them PPS. I'll make more money that way. If someone is sending me traffic from hardcore TPGs or babe blogs, I'm not going to take all the risk by doing PPS with them. I'll make more money that way.

And since I want to retain the good affiliates long-term, I tell them that rev-share is the better option for them. If they want to go for the sure buck instead, that's fine with me :winkwink:

One example: I used to promote a sponsor with both, PPS and revshare. After sending traffic to both options, I had more than twice as many sales with the revshare option = more money even without waiting for rebills. So its not like you make the same amount of sales no matter where you send your traffic and only $$$/sale does matter. PPS tours have a shitload of traffic leaks and those extensive pop-ups don't help to convert the surfer either.

Should also consider that with PPS the "good" affiliates pay for the shit traffic / retention of the "bad" ones. This does not happen with revshare as everyone gets their fair shake. Bob might send traffic that averages 1.1 months retention while Mike averages 2.4 months. Revshare both get what they deserve, PPS Mike suffers by only getting enough to cover the overall average value of signups even though his traffic is worth twice as much as Bobs.

damn this thread is a good read

The people most likely to fuck you are the people you trust. Sad as it is true.

im not going to say one is better than the other.

but before i was a program owner, i promoted other paysites. i was sending equal traffic to both PPS and revshare. ya, at first the fast money was nice from the pps while the revshare took a LITTLE while longer to get going, but after 6 months when all the rebills started snowballing, i quit sending traffic to PPS entirely and all to revshare.

i couldnt get my PPS campaign past 3,500.00/week while my revshare with ONE SITE (trials only) was putting 8,000.00+/week in my pocket.

i know it :)
hmm i dont know about that.


I think wiredguy said it best , in alot of the situation its in your own best interest to let the program owner worry about retention ( i.e. use pps ) , but in some situations its foolish to go with pps

quoted for truth (the numbers are smaller for me, but the message is right) :thumbsup

Gee you're a quick one aren't you?

These are both things I've already stated.
MOST sites retain for shit, and it's why most PPS companies shave and why most revshare sales are worth like $15-18 apiece.

The "right" program makes all of the difference, whether it's PPS or revshare.

I pointed out my revshare numbers to show that PPS isn't always a higher payout. I point out industry wide retention numbers to show that on "average" you're not really getting $35-40 per signup for your traffic. Ends are being cut somewhere in order to acheive that payout.

As I said at first, this isn't a black and white issue, there's alot of grey area. Send your traffic to whomever makes you the most money, PERIOD.

Probably true most of the time. It seems that PPS-only sponors only vouch for PPS and Revshare-only sponors only vouch for revshare. Sponsors that offer both PPS and revshare and vouch for one method over the other may give us better insight. Just offer both and no more need for these debates:)

For me, as a reseller it's all traffic source dependant. For instance if I indentify that a source of traffic I have rebills over time with an average member value surpassing the PPS, then I know I have revshare traffic and send it to %. Otherwise it goes to PPS.

I apologize if you're not a newbie and I called you one :)

Please re-read my posts. I've explicitly pointed out that I personally would make a LOT more on revshare and that the affiliate would make less.

I'd love it if every single sponsor agreed at once to all switch to revshare and we agreed to put away the high risk pay per signup model forever.

Unfortuntaely for some reason I think that wont happen because somebody somewhere will always know that people prefer to get paid up front.

I'm not promoting PPS, what i'm doing is pointing out that all the arguments *for* revshare are self serving for the program owner.

Again, no. I make less on PPS but refer to my above post... we have to offer PPS to get the big #'s.

I have no problem with revshare, or smaller programs promoting their sites.. there are certainly unique niches where a small sponsor can do well and make an affiliate good money (note i'm not saying more than if they got paid pps).... my only issue is with programs that spout bullshit in order to convince people that PPS is somehow a scam or that revshare is better for the affiliate.

Buy a used 1988 chevy malibu.. be proud of it.. drive it, enjoy it.. just don't try to convince me that it's a brand new lexus. It insults my intelligence :)

Good point :thumbsup

This is your own reality, but that's fine. We'll agree on one thing. We are both opportunists seeking to maximize our profits.

best thing youve ever said.

It totaly depends on the niche. I wouldnt send targeted solo girl traffic to anything but revshare.

Webcam traffic, pps. Let them worry about the upsales.

Ebony I stick with pps as well.... Tested both, made more pps with it more then anything.

Asian is something else i prefer revshare with.

Play with both, figure out what best suits your needs and do that. Never put all your eggs in 1 basket...

Absolutely true. A crook is a crook, whether he owns a PPS or RevShare program. Whether he is stealing from you or the consumer, right is right and wrong is wrong. If you don't care where your money comes from or at what cost to whom, that's your choice. This whole conversation in here seems to be avoiding discussion about proper business practices, ways that the FTC clearly defines as being legal and illegal to do business. I can't wait to see some more of the crooks in our industry put in federal prison for how they defraud consumers.

Brad