I hear this a lot. If you don't mind me asking, how much do you feel per average a signup to a great solo girl site is worth?

There are a lot of really good reasons to utilize a rev share set up, you pointed out some. To be honest, I primarly sent to revshare as a webmaster and loved it; however I never did a great job at calculating what each member was worth and comparing it against PPS models.

I have never argued that it was unintelligent to send to rev share. I would and do now from a personal standpoint. However, from the business standpoint, it "seems" like the business is leaving money on the table.

That has nothing to do with the provider of traffic.

Does that make sense?

I don't think I was all that clear initially....

so far this year on all of my revshare programs I do over $40 per join compared to between $25-35 on pps.
there are many factors to take into consideration when choosing pps or revshare. Some programs just don't recur as well as others some of the mega sites out there or highly targeted niche sites can recur for years. You have to look at the content, is it exclusive? do they do regular updates? how is the members area designed? is it user friendly/easy to navigate? how many sites do they have in their program? etc.
So you can't really say revshare is better than pps or the other way around for that matter...it is really dependant on the program/sites IMHO

PPS DEBUNKED One Time Only For The Sheep!

______________________________________________

I am so sick of this constant crap from pps programs screaming how they make people more money... so this evening.. and only right now, as a revshare program user I will give you the no bullshit explanation why you will make more with a revshare program than a pps program in the long run.

And we begin.. pps 101.

The bottom line here...pps programs like revshare programs are in business to turn a profit. As much as possible. They would likely be unhappy with a 2% return. If they were losing money they would lower the PPS. If they were completely losing money they would go out of business. PROFIT IS THE BOTTOM LINE.

So given the above FACT I see only one logical conclusion to the statement "you'll make more with pps than with revshare, so promote our pps program".

The logical conclusion is one of three choices:

either
A) The pps program can't afford to revshare and they are hoping to spin things in their favor with crosssales and covert advertising. There is no shame in this.

or

B) The pps program can absolutely afford to pay revshare, but THEY make a ton more money by convincing sheep they need them to accept the "risk".

or

C) They actually make less money. If they say you make more with their pps program vs revshare then that means they are making less with pps vs revshare. There is only a dollar here to be divided up so many ways.

My response to those 3 options?

A - Respectable as long as the are honest.

B - You're being schooled. Go back to wendy's.

C - Pretty fucking unlikely. They simply wouldn't make a choice to earn less. They aren't your momma. They don't love you. They don't have high hopes for your future as a doctor. They are in business to earn a profit. Refer back to the universal fact that we are all here to make a profit.


There are 99 ways you can lose EVERY DIME owed to you by a pps program... there is only ONE way that you can get paid!

And that my friends.. is why the smart money.. the gambler who knows the odds puts their hard earned traffic into revshare.




With that said...

I'll guarantee in writing that you will earn more with INSERTSPONSORNAMEHERE than with any other sponsor."

the single most important factor to making money in this business is not revshare vs PPS. its how well a site sells with your traffic. you can promote a PPS sponsor at 1:10000, or a revshare at 1:1000, who you going to pick? and dont even focus in on ratios, how many pps sponsors build devices into their program that dont even track sales down to the affiliate, like not cookieing traffic to affiliates, putting their own account code on the enter link off index.html on the main domain, etc - then dress up the ratio by showing 2nd page, 3rd page, join page unique/ "qualified" hits. these are all tactics used to be able to pay out PPS. i only started making real money in this business when i started promoting solid revshare companies. how come almost every PPS sponsor uses proprietary stats software. why don't these guys count with nats, or directly thru ccbill which is going to give the affiliates the most sales? the amount of PPS programs who use a 3rd party to count, is an overwhelming minority in this business.

the true answer is, with some sponsors you'll make more on PPS, and other sponsors you'll make more on revshare. but at the end of the day, if a sponsor pays out $40 a join, but converts 1:10000, you think you're going to be better off cause its PPS, than revshare? thats why i always laugh when i see programs with insanely his PPS rates, because if its too good to be true, it probably is.

with what lenny was saying above how with a certain revshare program he was making $34/sale - $34/sale with a revshare program will make you a lot more than with a $34 PPS program, because at the end of the day, that revshare program will probably show a significant amount of more sales based upon counting techniques. obviously everything i say is relative to site to site and there are always exceptions, but this is looking at everything from a generalistic view of the industry as a whole.

Quickbuck uses their own merchant account and from what they say their rebills or better on their own merchant account then third party, so even more profit for them

although I disagree with a lot of the stuff said in this thread *cough*smokeythebear*cough* it is at least entertaining and informative.

bigdog.. you can promote our merchant sites on our 60/40 program. That program is console free, contains no cross sales and the only upsell is to convert from trial to full by limiting access to trial members.

We also offer a 100% program on all those same sites but you have to accept a cross sale on the join form that you dont get paid for and exit consoles.

heh i was just pointing out the flipside :) i think any informed webmaster knows you have to mix it up..

It isnt all written in stone.. i have revshare sponsors that the average member is worth more than what im getting with the very same sponsor , very same site.. nothing is different but my cut.. you cant tell me that the pps is better.

If i send 10 signups a day to pps and 10 a day to the same site for revshare and after 2 months the $$ is more for revshare , how can pps be better ?

Recently a friend who also runs a linklist did an amazing spreadsheet of all of his revshare (ccbill) sponsors that include just about every program out there - the time span on the stats ranged from a few months to almost 6 years depending on the sponsor and when he joined. He also split it to programs with and without trials offered. On the no-trials programs and with his traffic which is extremely good and very niche targetted, an overall average of around $20 a signup was the norm although it ranged from $7 to $35 - I didnt see any sites that did better than that over the lifetime of the program. With the trial versions of course the average dropped amazingly to an average of around $14 per signup.

Of course the more important stat that most here are leaving out of the equation is the amount earned per click - on this the revshare was no different than the PPS stats I looked at with a few glaring outstanders but those were two programs that had one specific site that no one else offers a niche site for and they did amazingly better both in % retention, earnings per signup, and earnings per click - but that was expected.

bing bing bing!!!!

it's all about long term. The people who want money now, today, now now now, are forfieghting a lot of dough that would accumulate with a little bit of patience.

PPS is great for the n00b who cant wait to make a couple thousand bucks quick, but once he's caught up to wherever he/she needs to be, it's best to move onto a recurring revenue source.

:thumbsup infact i was just looking at my occash stats and overall my revshare income is on par with a pps program ( avg 35$ ) and occash is rather new , so in a few more months the revshare will have surpassed pps if you guys had pps isntead..

I would say i use about 75% revshare and 25% pps

glad to hear it bro....

let me know if you need ANYTHING at all. I will work Easter Sunday for you if you need anything. :thumbsup

again. affiliates demand pps. it's not some smoke and mirrors trick being performed by all the pps programer owners to make you think pps is better than revshare. obviously you need volume to increase your profit. affiliates want pps. so program owners go with pps because it's what affiliates want. if owners could get the sales volume they get from pps with revshare, they would be doing revshare only.

totally agree with you there , most webmasters seem to want pps. I like sponsors who offer both.

LOL .. I just cant pass by ..

1) If you program converts 1:2000 for some aff and with our program he makes 1:500 on same traffic, he already lost 3 signups which is 45 usd without rebills.

2) Some affs bring traffic which is rebiling better, some dont.
I dont want to balance it by shaving or adding cross sales.
I would rather work with everybody on revshare and give everyone the credit they earned. And I dont need to squeeze anyone. I just need to get my service on top and content attractive enought. We shoot all the cotent
ourselves. Most of our models are never seen before.This is what I am supposed to carry for and not how to squeeze people.
If sales are going down for some reason revshare affs keep getting rebills and this is is huge advantage for affs too.

3) The industry would breathe much freely without pre checked cross sales and on this part you cant argue alot.

Wiseman told me if i didnt promote quickbuck he was going to throw a chair at me :(
lol j/k

DUke

exactly. test & go with what works best with your traffic. most dont want to test, so they just go with the sure thing ...PPS. Which is fine with me

I dunno...I make an average of $68 dollars per join with Naughty America and $70-something with Meatcash.

I think you rant is just a shameless self promotion of your lame program.

Thanks dude.

100..........

Hooper I am throwing a orgy in Soho next week come on down yo

We offer revshare and PPS.

Do you feel like I should be promoting you instead of my own program in my sig? I put my money where my mouth is and don't promote revshare programs because we make more with PPS.

hahahahaha



























really?

heeheh i wish , nah been doing some stuff with Izzy last 3 days by fashion institute near 7th , gotta come back on Mon to finish up

why are you promoting anything other than quickbuck ? didnt you say "I'll guarantee in writing that you will earn more with quickbuck than with any other sponsor. " ? :winkwink: So you knowingly promote programs that make you less money ?? that doesn't make much sense :winkwink:

When you promote a revshare, you need to do it over a long period of time and build up a good base of rebills?then weather you send traffic or not?you keep on getting money! There is a concept I?m sure Hooper won?t flame on GFY about.

All due respect to Wiseman, Quickbuck blows...theri sites are lame, their content sucks, and they have a more shady past tha just about anyone out there. Also, they are too lazy to even get their own content...all of their members areas are leased Jason and Alex content...they offered us the deal, but we passed on it.

If you want a good PPS program...go with Topbucks.

i thought jason and alex was exclusive.
duke

Except for what is leased to quickbuck. Hooper is so parinoid about having to keep 2257 docs...he won't shoot theri own shit.

Fuck revshare...fuck pps...good exclusive content that converts is where its it. If you don't have that...you don't have a pot to piss in.

we've spend hundreds of thousands on custom exclusive content. you sound ignorant when you say otherwise. and yep. j&a's content was good and is good.. nobody else has it but us & them.

i'd say you have no respect for wiseman given the way you always say "i love wiseman but..."

we didn't start this thread trashing you. haven't said a thing about you... and have been having a heck of a discussion about revshare vs pps.

Stop trying to ride our coat tails :)

You said their content is lame, but if i remember the JasonandAlex content was pretty good

Hooper do you feel that pricing affects retention wether a site is 29.99 or 39.99?

he just likes to trash us for the sake of trashing us. we're not allowed to have an opinion about anything that doesn't coincide with the book of jay.

He also conveniently ignored the other custom exclusive sites we have:

TaxiCams
SlutBus
Fistless
Ryan's Beach House
Doctor Stroke
Jerk My Cock
Kalifornication

Between our own in house produced sites and our deals with companies as mentioned we have hundreds of hours of killer video that you can't get elsewhere... I guess that's "lame" :-/

it pisses plenty of other people off that you can push the envelope and still be here full of piss & vinegar.

Yes, but 29.99 vs 39.99 isnt the magic number. 24.95 vs 39.95 has a big difference. 24.95 retains much better than 39.95, 19.95 better than 24.95, and 9.95 better tha 19.95.. and FREE retains the best! :)

I have revshares that do about $35 per sign up and I do PPS. Why does PPS have to do shady shit and shave to pay me $35 PPS?

Answer - They don't. Niether one shares the crossales, upsales or emails.

I like the big PPS model as it is convenient. If I need a lesbian site today. They have one. If I need Big butts tomorrow, they have one. And I only need to track the one check etc. I do not have to worry about retention or other factors just the sale. It is easier for me. But I promote both as some revshares rock.

PS I want solo girls on PPS as my retention with them sucks and they are flaky.

This thread was started attacking the business model we use...as it presented by a guy who uses another and therefore is pretty one-sided. I'm not taking it personally, just adding my :2 cents:

That Taxicams contant is AWEFUL...just go to the site.

Some of it is and some of it isn't...JSA is a decent REVSHARE program though. :upsidedow

I'm not attacking revshare. I'm just advocating calling it what it is... revshare. Recently there have been a ton of threads started by revshare only companies who scream at the top of their lungs that PPS is a ripoff and revshare is the only way to really make good money. Not to mention that there have been 50 threads this month in which people claim that one has to shave to pay per signup. I'm not attacking. i'm defending!

We offer revshare as well... it is an option, it is a viable option, for a small percentage of people they will make more with revshare.. but the vast majority of affiliates will make more with PPS.

As for taxicams, if you don't like it... well.. stop watching it! :)

Something happened to Hooper. All of his posts have a nice tone to them now.

The whole problem is PPS is an OUTDATED business model...it was started in the days of the wild wild west when companies were slamming credit cards, doulbe billing, hiding xsales, spamming, taking spam, abusive exit consoles and the sites were upsale hell.

These days they've pulled the reigns back on must of that shit.

These days consumers expect more when they slap down a credit card when there are easily 1,000,000 TGPS on the net that have all of the same content for FREE!

The only way you can do PPS now is to offer limited trials...meaning they put in their CC# (a big step) and then they have access to like one video. Myself, I think that is pretty lame. A good limited trial converts around 50% - 55% -- meaning you've just pissed off 45% - 50% of your surfers!

When you join an OCCash site you get full access to the site you joined if you want to see the other 19 sites in the network...there is the upsale...I think that is totally fair.

The problem with PPS is it has become a giant dick measuring contest that nobody wants to back down from becasue nobody want to lose face.

Think about it...what could be more fair that a 50% split of the gross profit of a sale with a merchant? The traffic guys have very small expenses...after a program gets a member you still have to cover their hosting, support, cut the billers their 10-13%, pay out content partners, empoyees, hosting, legal fees, office space, taxes...I could go on and on.

PPS = don't believe the hype.

You promote a good revshare program over a long period of time -- you will make the same amount of money, will abuse your surfers a lot less, and will still wind up making around the same out of money.

Sponsors can only pay what the market will bear.

:2 cents: