Revshare DEBUNKED - One Time Only For The Sheep! - Page 3 - GoFuckYourself.com

woj · 04-15-2006, 03:37 PM

100..........

Juicy D. Links · 04-15-2006, 03:44 PM

Hooper I am throwing a orgy in Soho next week come on down yo

Quick Buck · 04-15-2006, 04:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xxxjay

I dunno...I make an average of $68 dollars per join with Naughty America and $70-something with Meatcash.

I think you rant is just a shameless self promotion of your lame program.

We offer revshare and PPS.

Do you feel like I should be promoting you instead of my own program in my sig? I put my money where my mouth is and don't promote revshare programs because we make more with PPS.

Quick Buck · 04-15-2006, 04:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Juicy D. Links

Hooper I am throwing a orgy in Soho next week come on down yo

hahahahaha

really?

Juicy D. Links · 04-15-2006, 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quick Buck

hahahahaha

really?

heeheh i wish , nah been doing some stuff with Izzy last 3 days by fashion institute near 7th , gotta come back on Mon to finish up

SmokeyTheBear · 04-15-2006, 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quick Buck

I put my money where my mouth is and don't promote revshare programs because we make more with PPS.

why are you promoting anything other than quickbuck ? didnt you say "I'll guarantee in writing that you will earn more with quickbuck than with any other sponsor. " ?

So you knowingly promote programs that make you less money ?? that doesn't make much sense

xxxjay · 04-15-2006, 04:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SmokeyTheBear

why are you promoting anything other than quickbuck ? didnt you say "I'll guarantee in writing that you will earn more with quickbuck than with any other sponsor. " ?

So you knowingly promote programs that make you less money ?? that doesn't make much sense

When you promote a revshare, you need to do it over a long period of time and build up a good base of rebills?then weather you send traffic or not?you keep on getting money! There is a concept I?m sure Hooper won?t flame on GFY about.

All due respect to Wiseman, Quickbuck blows...theri sites are lame, their content sucks, and they have a more shady past tha just about anyone out there. Also, they are too lazy to even get their own content...all of their members areas are leased Jason and Alex content...they offered us the deal, but we passed on it.

If you want a good PPS program...go with Topbucks.

Major (Tom) · 04-15-2006, 04:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xxxjay

When you promote a revshare, you need to do it over a long period of time and build up a good base of rebills?then weather you send traffic or not?you keep on getting money! There is a concept I?m sure Hooper won?t flame on GFY about.

All due respect to Wiseman, Quickbuck blows...theri sites are lame, their content sucks, and they have a more shady past tha just about anyone out there. Also, they are too lazy to even get their own content...all of their members areas are leased Jason and Alex content...they offered us the deal, but we passed on it.

If you want a good PPS program...go with Topbucks.

i thought jason and alex was exclusive.
duke

xxxjay · 04-15-2006, 04:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DukeSkywalker

i thought jason and alex was exclusive.
duke

Except for what is leased to quickbuck. Hooper is so parinoid about having to keep 2257 docs...he won't shoot theri own shit.

Fuck revshare...fuck pps...good exclusive content that converts is where its it. If you don't have that...you don't have a pot to piss in.

Quick Buck · 04-15-2006, 04:52 PM

we've spend hundreds of thousands on custom exclusive content. you sound ignorant when you say otherwise. and yep. j&a's content was good and is good.. nobody else has it but us & them.

i'd say you have no respect for wiseman given the way you always say "i love wiseman but..."

we didn't start this thread trashing you. haven't said a thing about you... and have been having a heck of a discussion about revshare vs pps.

Stop trying to ride our coat tails

bigdog · 04-15-2006, 04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xxxjay

Except for what is leased to quickbuck. Hooper is so parinoid about having to keep 2257 docs...he won't shoot theri own shit.

Fuck revshare...fuck pps...good exclusive content that converts is where its it. If you don't have that...you don't have a pot to piss in.

You said their content is lame, but if i remember the JasonandAlex content was pretty good

bigdog · 04-15-2006, 04:54 PM

Hooper do you feel that pricing affects retention wether a site is 29.99 or 39.99?

Quick Buck · 04-15-2006, 04:59 PM

he just likes to trash us for the sake of trashing us. we're not allowed to have an opinion about anything that doesn't coincide with the book of jay.

He also conveniently ignored the other custom exclusive sites we have:

TaxiCams
SlutBus
Fistless
Ryan's Beach House
Doctor Stroke
Jerk My Cock
Kalifornication

Between our own in house produced sites and our deals with companies as mentioned we have hundreds of hours of killer video that you can't get elsewhere... I guess that's "lame" :-/

it pisses plenty of other people off that you can push the envelope and still be here full of piss & vinegar.

Quick Buck · 04-15-2006, 05:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigdog

Hooper do you feel that pricing affects retention wether a site is 29.99 or 39.99?

Yes, but 29.99 vs 39.99 isnt the magic number. 24.95 vs 39.95 has a big difference. 24.95 retains much better than 39.95, 19.95 better than 24.95, and 9.95 better tha 19.95.. and FREE retains the best!

slapass · 04-15-2006, 05:28 PM

I have revshares that do about $35 per sign up and I do PPS. Why does PPS have to do shady shit and shave to pay me $35 PPS?

Answer - They don't. Niether one shares the crossales, upsales or emails.

I like the big PPS model as it is convenient. If I need a lesbian site today. They have one. If I need Big butts tomorrow, they have one. And I only need to track the one check etc. I do not have to worry about retention or other factors just the sale. It is easier for me. But I promote both as some revshares rock.

PS I want solo girls on PPS as my retention with them sucks and they are flaky.

xxxjay · 04-15-2006, 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quick Buck

we've spend hundreds of thousands on custom exclusive content. you sound ignorant when you say otherwise. and yep. j&a's content was good and is good.. nobody else has it but us & them.

i'd say you have no respect for wiseman given the way you always say "i love wiseman but..."

we didn't start this thread trashing you. haven't said a thing about you... and have been having a heck of a discussion about revshare vs pps.

Stop trying to ride our coat tails

This thread was started attacking the business model we use...as it presented by a guy who uses another and therefore is pretty one-sided. I'm not taking it personally, just adding my

That Taxicams contant is AWEFUL...just go to the site.

xxxjay · 04-15-2006, 05:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DukeSkywalker

i thought jason and alex was exclusive.
duke

Some of it is and some of it isn't...JSA is a decent REVSHARE program though.

Quick Buck · 04-15-2006, 05:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xxxjay

This thread was started attacking the business model we use...as it presented by a guy who uses another and therefore is pretty one-sided. I'm not taking it personally, just adding my

I'm not attacking revshare. I'm just advocating calling it what it is... revshare. Recently there have been a ton of threads started by revshare only companies who scream at the top of their lungs that PPS is a ripoff and revshare is the only way to really make good money. Not to mention that there have been 50 threads this month in which people claim that one has to shave to pay per signup. I'm not attacking. i'm defending!

We offer revshare as well... it is an option, it is a viable option, for a small percentage of people they will make more with revshare.. but the vast majority of affiliates will make more with PPS.

As for taxicams, if you don't like it... well.. stop watching it!

Sly · 04-15-2006, 05:55 PM

Something happened to Hooper. All of his posts have a nice tone to them now.

xxxjay · 04-15-2006, 05:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slapass

I have revshares that do about $35 per sign up and I do PPS. Why does PPS have to do shady shit and shave to pay me $35 PPS?

Answer - They don't. Niether one shares the crossales, upsales or emails.

I like the big PPS model as it is convenient. If I need a lesbian site today. They have one. If I need Big butts tomorrow, they have one. And I only need to track the one check etc. I do not have to worry about retention or other factors just the sale. It is easier for me. But I promote both as some revshares rock.

PS I want solo girls on PPS as my retention with them sucks and they are flaky.

The whole problem is PPS is an OUTDATED business model...it was started in the days of the wild wild west when companies were slamming credit cards, doulbe billing, hiding xsales, spamming, taking spam, abusive exit consoles and the sites were upsale hell.

These days they've pulled the reigns back on must of that shit.

These days consumers expect more when they slap down a credit card when there are easily 1,000,000 TGPS on the net that have all of the same content for FREE!

The only way you can do PPS now is to offer limited trials...meaning they put in their CC# (a big step) and then they have access to like one video. Myself, I think that is pretty lame. A good limited trial converts around 50% - 55% -- meaning you've just pissed off 45% - 50% of your surfers!

When you join an OCCash site you get full access to the site you joined if you want to see the other 19 sites in the network...there is the upsale...I think that is totally fair.

The problem with PPS is it has become a giant dick measuring contest that nobody wants to back down from becasue nobody want to lose face.

Think about it...what could be more fair that a 50% split of the gross profit of a sale with a merchant? The traffic guys have very small expenses...after a program gets a member you still have to cover their hosting, support, cut the billers their 10-13%, pay out content partners, empoyees, hosting, legal fees, office space, taxes...I could go on and on.

PPS = don't believe the hype.

You promote a good revshare program over a long period of time -- you will make the same amount of money, will abuse your surfers a lot less, and will still wind up making around the same out of money.

Sponsors can only pay what the market will bear.

SmokeyTheBear · 04-15-2006, 06:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quick Buck

I'm not attacking revshare. I'm just advocating calling it what it is... revshare.

lol you gotta admit that sounds pretty damn funny..

what else are they calling it .. how can you say your not attacking revshare when you have a thread called " Revshare DEBUNKED - One Time Only For The Sheep! "

I like some of your sites , but bland statements like "I'll guarantee in writing that you will earn more with quickbuck than with any other sponsor" is kind of defeating the purpose of you trying to point out the rhetoric some companies use in promoting revshare... dont call revshare bunk because you dont like pps being called bunk , call things like they are , some companies make grandious claims on both sides of the plate

xxxjay · 04-15-2006, 07:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SmokeyTheBear

lol you gotta admit that sounds pretty damn funny..

what else are they calling it .. how can you say your not attacking revshare when you have a thread called " Revshare DEBUNKED - One Time Only For The Sheep! "

Yeah, I was going to point out the same thing...he's attacking the business model anf feeding misinformation (or at least tainted information) for his own gain.

Thomas N · 04-15-2006, 10:49 PM

Really a great thread, except for xxxjay's inability to even PRETEND to be a professional. A shame, there is always one guy who has to try and devolve every business thread into name calling. I guess it tells the smart business people who not to do business with.

SmokeyTheBear · 04-15-2006, 11:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SwordFish

Really a great thread, except for xxxjay's inability to even PRETEND to be a professional. A shame, there is always one guy who has to try and devolve every business thread into name calling. I guess it tells the smart business people who not to do business with.

i dont thnk thats quite fair.. although quickbuck didnt single out any one program in particular he basically indirectly questioned the integrity of every revshare sponsor with this thread , so i think its only fair that revshare sponsors get to respond.. he may have been blunt , but i think he basically said the same thing quickbuck did on the flipside , only he did single out a program in particular only because that was the program that brought this thread up..

I think they both had some great points..

Lets be realistic though when making bland generalizations

If i bring the ingedients for a cake and you bake it for me , you can call the pay rate anything you want , pps , revshare or per click , but at the end of the day all that matters is how much cake you have.. if we both split the cake , who cares if we call it 50% revshare or 1/2 cake per signup. If im using pps and get more than half a cake and revshare gets me less than half a cake then pps is better, if revshare gets me more than half the cake and pps gets less then revshare is better..

Kevsh · 04-15-2006, 11:19 PM

Let me get this right: If they promote revshare it's because it makes more money for them? So why do programs push PPS? .... Perhaps, becaus it makes more money for them?

Theo · 04-16-2006, 07:14 AM

if traffic had the value you claim in your hands you wouldn't send your exit to traffigigolos or whats that called for niches you already have paysites.

the day i'll see nastydollars doing that i'll take your reply as serious ;-)

Deej · 04-16-2006, 07:45 AM

This thread is brown....

bigdog · 04-16-2006, 03:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xxxjay

The whole problem is PPS is an OUTDATED business model...it was started in the days of the wild wild west when companies were slamming credit cards, doulbe billing, hiding xsales, spamming, taking spam, abusive exit consoles and the sites were upsale hell.

These days they've pulled the reigns back on must of that shit.

These days consumers expect more when they slap down a credit card when there are easily 1,000,000 TGPS on the net that have all of the same content for FREE!

The only way you can do PPS now is to offer limited trials...meaning they put in their CC# (a big step) and then they have access to like one video. Myself, I think that is pretty lame. A good limited trial converts around 50% - 55% -- meaning you've just pissed off 45% - 50% of your surfers!

When you join an OCCash site you get full access to the site you joined if you want to see the other 19 sites in the network...there is the upsale...I think that is totally fair.

The problem with PPS is it has become a giant dick measuring contest that nobody wants to back down from becasue nobody want to lose face.

Think about it...what could be more fair that a 50% split of the gross profit of a sale with a merchant? The traffic guys have very small expenses...after a program gets a member you still have to cover their hosting, support, cut the billers their 10-13%, pay out content partners, empoyees, hosting, legal fees, office space, taxes...I could go on and on.

PPS = don't believe the hype.

You promote a good revshare program over a long period of time -- you will make the same amount of money, will abuse your surfers a lot less, and will still wind up making around the same out of money.

Sponsors can only pay what the market will bear.

You made some very good points. I agree that some of the trial limited membership area stuff seems kind of lame, but most people are here to make money and not make friends with surfers. Webmasters are greedy sons of bitches

BVF · 04-16-2006, 04:57 PM

As a revshare sponsor, and affiliate, I must say that one must promote sites that he likes whether it's revshare or PPS. Only revshare sponsors I'll promote are ccbill or NATS sponsors....One must have a mix of both. I would never promote just revshare nor PPS.

seeric · 04-16-2006, 04:59 PM

You apparently dont know the Busty-Amateurs.com story.

Quick Buck · 04-16-2006, 05:19 PM

a1r3k.. not sure if thta was directed toward the "me" "you" or the somebody else "you"

my understanding of busty amateurs is that they were a hugely successful revshare program who convinced many people that would only do pps to go revshare.. people made lots of money with them and then one day for whatever reason busty amateurs shut down, cancelled all members and disappeared.

Sexy Rex · 04-16-2006, 05:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xxxjay

The whole problem is PPS is an OUTDATED business model...it was started in the days of the wild wild west when companies were slamming credit cards, doulbe billing, hiding xsales, spamming, taking spam, abusive exit consoles and the sites were upsale hell.

These days they've pulled the reigns back on must of that shit.

These days consumers expect more when they slap down a credit card when there are easily 1,000,000 TGPS on the net that have all of the same content for FREE!

The only way you can do PPS now is to offer limited trials...meaning they put in their CC# (a big step) and then they have access to like one video. Myself, I think that is pretty lame. A good limited trial converts around 50% - 55% -- meaning you've just pissed off 45% - 50% of your surfers!

When you join an OCCash site you get full access to the site you joined if you want to see the other 19 sites in the network...there is the upsale...I think that is totally fair.

The problem with PPS is it has become a giant dick measuring contest that nobody wants to back down from becasue nobody want to lose face.

Think about it...what could be more fair that a 50% split of the gross profit of a sale with a merchant? The traffic guys have very small expenses...after a program gets a member you still have to cover their hosting, support, cut the billers their 10-13%, pay out content partners, empoyees, hosting, legal fees, office space, taxes...I could go on and on.

PPS = don't believe the hype.

You promote a good revshare program over a long period of time -- you will make the same amount of money, will abuse your surfers a lot less, and will still wind up making around the same out of money.

Sponsors can only pay what the market will bear.

I agree PPS is outdated and pushes most companies to do things they should not (pressuring the surfer/ shaving etc). We only pay revshare and I admit we're not paying PPS because of the big negative cash flow it generates when u switch to it.

But here is the bottom line imho: our affiliates make an average of $45 per join with revshare. What do you think i'd pay PPS? $35? $40 maybe? One way or another, I'll take into consideration the fact that I'm taking the risk and I would pay less.

I hope the market will evolve toward more revshare and more transparency. We did a BIG step in that direction last year publishing ALL our retention numbers. http://www.totemcash.com/free/figures.php

Our next step is to display our convertion ratios in real time. I might get less newbies affiliates not paying PPS, but I hope the bigger affiliates with more experience know better and appreciate companies that want to be transparent.

My 2c

seeric · 04-16-2006, 05:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quick Buck

a1r3k.. not sure if thta was directed toward the "me" "you" or the somebody else "you"

my understanding of busty amateurs is that they were a hugely successful revshare program who convinced many people that would only do pps to go revshare.. people made lots of money with them and then one day for whatever reason busty amateurs shut down, cancelled all members and disappeared.

busty amateurs was shut down because the owner went crazy, became a jesus freak and turned off one of the most successful revshare programs to exist in that era of adult internet. he burned up all the content and turned off thousands and thousands of rebilling members. the guy lost his mind partying and living the good life. in the era when busty was huge there was no reason to ever "convince" anyone to go revshare. the internet has evolved and done a 180 since the busty days. consumers think differently.

thats the facts. including them in this to reinforce your point added no weight to what you believe. i could care less really, we're operating a successful pps program now and i actually agree with what you're saying on most accounts. just leave people out of it if you don't know what went on, or ask one of us that lived through it.

thats basically all i am saying.

nico-t · 04-16-2006, 06:11 PM

i use both revshare & pps..

Quick Buck · 04-16-2006, 06:12 PM

Airek.. i really mean no ofeense here but it seems that it IS what I thought... why is that in some way "pro revshare" ? A revshare program that went down and tons of people lost millions of dollars.

All it does is validate the fact that with revshare one puts their LONG TERM financial viability into a single pornographer. Re-read my post, one of my biggest reasons for saying revshare is disadvantageous is because if that program shuts down (ala busty amateurs) you can lose your ass... with PPS your receivables are more like 2 weeks, not 2 years.

Sorry that you were caught up in it man, but it is a piece of internet history.

Paparazzi · 04-16-2006, 06:43 PM

personally I prefer to push revshare programs as they make me more.

xxxjay · 04-16-2006, 07:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quick Buck

Sorry that you were caught up in it man, but it is a piece of internet history.

Hooper, you are getting creamed again on this thread. Let in go.

seeric · 04-16-2006, 07:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quick Buck

Airek.. i really mean no ofeense here but it seems that it IS what I thought... why is that in some way "pro revshare" ? A revshare program that went down and tons of people lost millions of dollars.

All it does is validate the fact that with revshare one puts their LONG TERM financial viability into a single pornographer. Re-read my post, one of my biggest reasons for saying revshare is disadvantageous is because if that program shuts down (ala busty amateurs) you can lose your ass... with PPS your receivables are more like 2 weeks, not 2 years.

Sorry that you were caught up in it man, but it is a piece of internet history.

i agree that people should not put all their eggs in one basket. i can also assure you that had busty stayed in business it would have had a pps model. guaranteed. the change in the industry and consumer mindset would have dictated that. revshare was where it was for the era it lived in. pps did not become the big thing till later, much later.

busty was at its biggest earning months when it was shut down. it was flourishing. we all got jacked. members, affiliates, employees, hosting company, you name it.

somethings i would do revshare on and some i will only ever do pps. both are viable business models in the right situations.

i see what you mean. we live and learn.

Quick Buck · 04-16-2006, 08:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xxxjay

Hooper, you are getting creamed again on this thread. Let in go.

if you ever feel like having an actual discussion that doesn't involve taking things personally, spinning things and calling names i'd be happy to...

i wont be holding my breath.

slapass · 04-16-2006, 08:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xxxjay

The only way you can do PPS now is to offer limited trials...
.............
You promote a good revshare program over a long period of time -- you will make the same amount of money,

Why can't a PPS run just like a revshare and just pay me up front. If they all make the same cash, it is a cash flow question not a billing question. This is where this debate always falls apart.

You cannot claim to pay me more per sign up on revshare and PPS has to cheat to pay me less.

chadglni · 04-16-2006, 08:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slapass

Why can't a PPS run just like a revshare and just pay me up front. If they all make the same cash, it is a cash flow question not a billing question. This is where this debate always falls apart.

You cannot claim to pay me more per sign up on revshare and PPS has to cheat to pay me less.

I would imagine you get an influx of SHIT traffic when you switch to PPS and many more affiliates. Just because your traffic is worth $45 per member today doesn't mean it will be with 100 new affiliates pushing real traffic to you.

04-16-2006, 08:51 PM

Here's the way I see it...

With revshare, affiliates are being paid for the revenue generated at the direct processor level only. That means initials, conversions and rebills, and that's it. So if on average, an affiliate's members generate $28.66, they receive the % cut of the average $28.66 per member. Now if their users happen to generate only $14.33 on average, then in this case, it sucks to be the affiliate. The revshare program had no risk in paying $7.16 (50%) on these joins, and in a sense the affiliate took on the risk by sending traffic to the program.

Now a PPS program may also generate only $28.66 in average revenue per member. However, in calculating a payout, a PPS program will also add the ancillary revenue per user which may include cross sales, exits, upsells, mailings and countless other ways to generate revenue per member. If the PPS program figures out they can generate another $12 revenue per member on average, then it might make sense for them to offer a $35 payout. Here the program would be looking at a profit margin of about $5 per join.

Obviously these aren't real numbers, but you can see how if a revshare program is generating ancillary revenue per member the same way a PPS program is, then the affiliate is getting screwed because all they're receiving is revenue at the processor level on the trials, conversions and rebills.

In theory a PPS program can even take a hit at the processor level and still afford to pay an affiliate MORE than if they were paying out on revshare. You may also notice that a revshare program could potentially have higher profit margins (guaranteed 40-50%) however a PPS program will push substantially more volume because they are paying a higher rate for the traffic.

Volume is the key to a successful PPS program operating at a lower profit margin per join, the same way it is with Walmart

And just so it's dead clear, a lower profit margin for the program means that a greater portion of the money goes into the affiliate's pocket

slapass · 04-16-2006, 08:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chadglni

I would imagine you get an influx of SHIT traffic when you switch to PPS and many more affiliates. Just because your traffic is worth $45 per member today doesn't mean it will be with 100 new affiliates pushing real traffic to you.

But you get the size discount on the cost of the backend. Also the whale factor of getting that good traffic from them.

Jay's a great guy and OcCash is good stuff but he makes tons of cash from PPS so this arguement from him always seems a little off.

DaddyHalbucks · 04-16-2006, 08:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quick Buck

I am so sick of this constant crap from revshare programs screaming how they make people more money... so this evening.. and only right now, as a successful PPS program owner I will give you the no bullshit explanation why you will make more with a PPS program than a RevShare program in the long run.

And we begin.. revshare 101.

The bottom line here...Revshare programs like PPS programs are in business to turn a profit. As much as possible. They would likely be unhappy with a 2% return. If they were losing money they would lower the %. If they were completely losing money they would go out of business. PROFIT IS THE BOTTOM LINE.

So given the above FACT I see only one logical conclusion to the statement "you'll make more with revshare than with PPS, so promote our revshare program".

The logical conclusion is one of three choices:

either
A) The revshare program can't afford to pay per signup and they are hoping to spin things in their favor. There is no shame in this. There is a huge upfront investment in PPS. If a small revshare program can't afford to PPS then kudos to them for starting with revshare. It's better than not starting. We started with revshare + pay per active. It was a good starting point for us SEVEN years ago.

or

B) The revshare program can absolutely afford to pay per signup, but THEY make a ton more money by convincing sheep to take all the risk.

or

C) They actually make less money. If they say you make more with their revshare program vs pps then that means they are making less with revshare vs pps. There is only a dollar here to be divided up so many ways.

My response to those 3 options?

A - Respectable as long as the are honest.

B - You're being schooled. Go back to wendy's.

C - Pretty fucking unlikely. They simply wouldn't make a choice to earn less. They aren't your momma. They don't love you. They don't have high hopes for your future as a doctor. They are in business to earn a profit. Refer back to the universal fact that we are all here to make a profit.

So why do I care? Because we bust our ass to afford to run a PPS program and remain competetive. We spend nights figuring out how to squeeze an additional 2 dollars out of the average user. Revshare sponsors just don't have that motivation cause they aren't "hungry".. their margins dont matter. Why? Because their margins are FIXED! 60/40, 50/50, 70/30.. their profit is GUARANTEED whether they retain for 1 day or 10 years.

But without a doubt my newbie revshare sheep flocking friends.... the TWO best reasons why the sharks and the richest in this business choose PPS?

2) Your spreadsheets arent full of question marks if you promote revshare. Your earnings per sale are predicable which allows you to take this 6 dimensional revshare calculation and turn it into a simple "my counted clicks and my earned per sale". Sure.. occasional members on revshare will earn you 80 bucks.. but the more common member will earn you 2 or 3 bucks.

and the number one reason for choosing pay per signup?

1) IBILL - DMR - INSITE ADULT - BUSTY AMATEURS - ENRON! The biggest companies in the world go under and they will never tell you if they are about to die... rules change... visa regs change... 3rd party processors go under.. paysite owners find religion... paysite owners get funds frozen by the FTC... merchant accounts get lost... Every revshare program owner will try to convince you of 50 reasons why they are the special chosen one.. why they are the only trustworthy program, why they will never fail and why their rebills will be paid on like clockwork... but...

There are 99 ways you can lose EVERY DIME owed to you by a revshare program... there is only ONE way that you can get paid!

And that my friends.. is why the smart money.. the gambler who knows the odds puts their hard earned traffic into PPS.

With that said... I'll guarantee in writing that you will earn more with quickbuck than with any other sponsor. How? cause I optimize every click and join beyond that which most sponsors have ever considered possible!

Interesting analysis. Thanks.

xxxjay · 04-16-2006, 10:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slapass

Why can't a PPS run just like a revshare and just pay me up front. If they all make the same cash, it is a cash flow question not a billing question. This is where this debate always falls apart.

You cannot claim to pay me more per sign up on revshare and PPS has to cheat to pay me less.

At some point we will probably do a PPS just to calm all of the whiners...right now we are growing at a nice pace, our sites convert, we don't piss on our surfers...so why deal with the headache?

PPS or no PPS...I'm sure we are doing more signups than the guy who started this thread.

LOL

Quick Buck · 04-16-2006, 10:32 PM

you know so little about our business jay... every post you make is clearly personal.

plus.. signups shouldnt matter to a big bad revshare sponsor like yourself.

i don't have enough fingers and toes to count how many revshare sponsors say they "will" have a pps program soon

xxxjay · 04-16-2006, 10:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quick Buck

you know so little about our business jay... every post you make is clearly personal.

plus.. signups shouldnt matter to a big bad revshare sponsor like yourself.

i don't have enough fingers and toes to count how many revshare sponsors say they "will" have a pps program soon

LOL - Hooper you are being way too nice. The Lithium must be working. You need to drink a bunch and then come back to this thread.

This is getting boring.

David - PG · 04-16-2006, 10:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lenny2

I said MOST programs aren't bringing in enough to pay $35 per signup.

lol, yea that's how the same programs invest millions in infrastructure, staff, marketing and development costs. Because they can't afford to pay 35 bucks a sale.

xxxjay · 04-16-2006, 10:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quick Buck

you know so little about our business jay... every post you make is clearly personal.

plus.. signups shouldnt matter to a big bad revshare sponsor like yourself.

i don't have enough fingers and toes to count how many revshare sponsors say they "will" have a pps program soon

And FYI...this PPS / Revshare babbling in meaningless...content is king:

Here is a Quickbuck black site:
http://www.afrosluts.com/01/?nats=

Here is how we do it in the OC:
http://secure.phatbootyhoes.com/track/NDIzMDoxMDoxMA/

Here is a Quickbuck Asian site:
http://www.asiansizzle.com/01/?nats=

Here is an OCCash Asain site:
http://secure.kungpaopussy.com/track/NDIzMDoxMDox/

Here is a quickbuck interracial site:
http://www.darkmeatwhitetreat.com/01/?nats=

Here is a REAL interracial site:
http://secure.blackdickslatinchicks....DIzMDoxMDoyMA/

Here is a Quickbuck attempt at a Brazilian site:
http://www.fuckmybrazilianass.com/01/?nats=

Here is the grand daddy of all Brazilian sites:
http://secure.brazilbang.com/track/NDIzMDoxMDoxMw/

Here is a quickbuck attempt at a MILF site:
http://www.milffrenzy.com/01/?nats=

Here is a real MILF site:
http://secure.blackmotherfuckers.com...DIzMDoxMDoyNQ/

Are things clear yet? Half of your sites look like they are straight out of 1986. I could care less if you paid $100 per join.

None of that matters if nobody is buying.

So many programs just a nothing but a billing machine...they don't care about the surfers like a quility program like Bangbros does. Remember a little program called Bangbros? They were Revshare only for over 2 years. Now they are the fucking Mack Daddy.

That is the business model I would rather emulate. Quility content, happy surfers, and a well presented product -- the amazing thing is the amount of surfers that join OCCash via bookmark or type-ins...that becasue they know we have the hot shit.

Pissing about PPS vs. Revshare and not worrying about well designed sites and quality content is putting the horse before the cart.

GigoloMason · 04-16-2006, 10:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt 26z

What you are saying here is that you support PPS because it makes you, the program owner more money. Thus admitting that your affiliates would be better off if you were a revshare sponsor.

What he's saying is that the program itself is going to try to optimize profits. The conclusion he draws is that people who are unable to afford PPS models have failed to do so.

Keep in mind most PPS programs offer rev-share options anyway so your attack on them doesn't really have any legs to stand on anyway. The biggest difference is that rev-share is higher risk for the affiliate than PPS, but rarely generates the greater returns that it should to balance it out.

04-15-2006, 03:37 PM	#101
woj <&(©¿©)&> Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Chicago Posts: 47,882	100.......... __________________ Custom Software Development, email: woj#at#wojfun#.#com to discuss details or skype: wojl2000 or gchat: wojfun or telegram: wojl2000 Affiliate program tools: Hosted Galleries Manager Banner Manager Video Manager Wordpress Affiliate Plugin Pic/Movie of the Day Fansign Generator Zip Manager

04-15-2006, 04:52 PM	#110
Quick Buck Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Free-Trials.......... Weekly-Payouts..... 100+Sites Posts: 1,026	we've spend hundreds of thousands on custom exclusive content. you sound ignorant when you say otherwise. and yep. j&a's content was good and is good.. nobody else has it but us & them. i'd say you have no respect for wiseman given the way you always say "i love wiseman but..." we didn't start this thread trashing you. haven't said a thing about you... and have been having a heck of a discussion about revshare vs pps. Stop trying to ride our coat tails __________________ $50 FREE TRIALS! Every Day til 2008!!! Only at QuickBuck

04-15-2006, 04:59 PM	#113
Quick Buck Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Free-Trials.......... Weekly-Payouts..... 100+Sites Posts: 1,026	he just likes to trash us for the sake of trashing us. we're not allowed to have an opinion about anything that doesn't coincide with the book of jay. He also conveniently ignored the other custom exclusive sites we have: TaxiCams SlutBus Fistless Ryan's Beach House Doctor Stroke Jerk My Cock Kalifornication Between our own in house produced sites and our deals with companies as mentioned we have hundreds of hours of killer video that you can't get elsewhere... I guess that's "lame" :-/ it pisses plenty of other people off that you can push the envelope and still be here full of piss & vinegar. __________________ $50 FREE TRIALS! Every Day til 2008!!! Only at QuickBuck

04-15-2006, 05:55 PM	#119
Sly Let's do some business! Industry Role: Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 31,326	Something happened to Hooper. All of his posts have a nice tone to them now. __________________ Vacares - Web Hosting, Domains, O365, Security & More - Paxum and BTC Accepted Windows VPS now available Great for TSS, Nifty Stats, remote work, virtual assistants, etc. Click here for more details.

04-16-2006, 07:45 AM	#127
Deej I make pixels work Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: I live here... Posts: 24,386	This thread is brown.... __________________ Deej's Designs n' What Not Hit me up for Design, CSS & Photo Retouching Icq#30096880

04-15-2006, 03:44 PM	#102
Juicy D. Links So Fucking Banned Industry Role: Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: N.Y. -Long Island -- Posts: 122,992	Hooper I am throwing a orgy in Soho next week come on down yo

04-15-2006, 04:54 PM	#112
bigdog Confirmed User Join Date: Jul 2001 Posts: 6,964	Hooper do you feel that pricing affects retention wether a site is 29.99 or 39.99?

04-15-2006, 05:28 PM	#115
slapass Too lazy to set a custom title Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Earth Posts: 14,622	I have revshares that do about $35 per sign up and I do PPS. Why does PPS have to do shady shit and shave to pay me $35 PPS? Answer - They don't. Niether one shares the crossales, upsales or emails. I like the big PPS model as it is convenient. If I need a lesbian site today. They have one. If I need Big butts tomorrow, they have one. And I only need to track the one check etc. I do not have to worry about retention or other factors just the sale. It is easier for me. But I promote both as some revshares rock. PS I want solo girls on PPS as my retention with them sucks and they are flaky.

04-15-2006, 10:49 PM	#123
Thomas N Confirmed User Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 973	Really a great thread, except for xxxjay's inability to even PRETEND to be a professional. A shame, there is always one guy who has to try and devolve every business thread into name calling. I guess it tells the smart business people who not to do business with.

04-15-2006, 11:19 PM	#125
Kevsh Confirmed User Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: TO Posts: 8,619	Let me get this right: If they promote revshare it's because it makes more money for them? So why do programs push PPS? .... Perhaps, becaus it makes more money for them?

04-16-2006, 07:14 AM	#126
Theo HAL 9000 Industry Role: Join Date: May 2001 Posts: 34,515	if traffic had the value you claim in your hands you wouldn't send your exit to traffigigolos or whats that called for niches you already have paysites. the day i'll see nastydollars doing that i'll take your reply as serious ;-)

04-16-2006, 04:57 PM	#129
BVF Black Vagina Finder Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: The Midwest Posts: 13,975	As a revshare sponsor, and affiliate, I must say that one must promote sites that he likes whether it's revshare or PPS. Only revshare sponsors I'll promote are ccbill or NATS sponsors....One must have a mix of both. I would never promote just revshare nor PPS. __________________ Black Pussy Click On Mr Cosby..CCbill, 60/40, 136 FHG's....The Cos Loves Black Ghetto Pussy!!

04-16-2006, 04:59 PM	#130
seeric .......... Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: .......... Posts: 41,917	You apparently dont know the Busty-Amateurs.com story.

04-16-2006, 05:19 PM	#131
Quick Buck Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Free-Trials.......... Weekly-Payouts..... 100+Sites Posts: 1,026	a1r3k.. not sure if thta was directed toward the "me" "you" or the somebody else "you" my understanding of busty amateurs is that they were a hugely successful revshare program who convinced many people that would only do pps to go revshare.. people made lots of money with them and then one day for whatever reason busty amateurs shut down, cancelled all members and disappeared. __________________ $50 FREE TRIALS! Every Day til 2008!!! Only at QuickBuck

04-16-2006, 06:11 PM	#134
nico-t emperor of my world Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: nethalands Posts: 29,903	i use both revshare & pps..

04-16-2006, 06:12 PM	#135
Quick Buck Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Free-Trials.......... Weekly-Payouts..... 100+Sites Posts: 1,026	Airek.. i really mean no ofeense here but it seems that it IS what I thought... why is that in some way "pro revshare" ? A revshare program that went down and tons of people lost millions of dollars. All it does is validate the fact that with revshare one puts their LONG TERM financial viability into a single pornographer. Re-read my post, one of my biggest reasons for saying revshare is disadvantageous is because if that program shuts down (ala busty amateurs) you can lose your ass... with PPS your receivables are more like 2 weeks, not 2 years. Sorry that you were caught up in it man, but it is a piece of internet history. __________________ $50 FREE TRIALS! Every Day til 2008!!! Only at QuickBuck

04-16-2006, 06:43 PM	#136
Paparazzi Confirmed User Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 3,488	personally I prefer to push revshare programs as they make me more. __________________ Pure Level(3) Premium Bandwidth When Quality Counts

04-16-2006, 08:51 PM	#142
esnem Guest Posts: n/a	Here's the way I see it... With revshare, affiliates are being paid for the revenue generated at the direct processor level only. That means initials, conversions and rebills, and that's it. So if on average, an affiliate's members generate $28.66, they receive the % cut of the average $28.66 per member. Now if their users happen to generate only $14.33 on average, then in this case, it sucks to be the affiliate. The revshare program had no risk in paying $7.16 (50%) on these joins, and in a sense the affiliate took on the risk by sending traffic to the program. Now a PPS program may also generate only $28.66 in average revenue per member. However, in calculating a payout, a PPS program will also add the ancillary revenue per user which may include cross sales, exits, upsells, mailings and countless other ways to generate revenue per member. If the PPS program figures out they can generate another $12 revenue per member on average, then it might make sense for them to offer a $35 payout. Here the program would be looking at a profit margin of about $5 per join. Obviously these aren't real numbers, but you can see how if a revshare program is generating ancillary revenue per member the same way a PPS program is, then the affiliate is getting screwed because all they're receiving is revenue at the processor level on the trials, conversions and rebills. In theory a PPS program can even take a hit at the processor level and still afford to pay an affiliate MORE than if they were paying out on revshare. You may also notice that a revshare program could potentially have higher profit margins (guaranteed 40-50%) however a PPS program will push substantially more volume because they are paying a higher rate for the traffic. Volume is the key to a successful PPS program operating at a lower profit margin per join, the same way it is with Walmart And just so it's dead clear, a lower profit margin for the program means that a greater portion of the money goes into the affiliate's pocket

04-16-2006, 10:32 PM	#146
Quick Buck Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Free-Trials.......... Weekly-Payouts..... 100+Sites Posts: 1,026	you know so little about our business jay... every post you make is clearly personal. plus.. signups shouldnt matter to a big bad revshare sponsor like yourself. i don't have enough fingers and toes to count how many revshare sponsors say they "will" have a pps program soon __________________ $50 FREE TRIALS! Every Day til 2008!!! Only at QuickBuck Last edited by Quick Buck; 04-16-2006 at 10:33 PM..