I'm afraid the reverse is true. You have not dug deep enough and are content to eat up the "bumbling bear" explanation of how the government works.

Look at it from a different perspective - any country that completely rules the entire world, for decades, with the most powerful military machine in the history of mankind, KNOWS EXACTLY what it is doing. The incompetence theory does not hold water.

Even in New Orleans, what happened there is exactly what the government wanted. FEMA was caught red handed trying to CUT communications lines. It was a dry run for Martial Law, as Karl Rove was quoted as saying.

You have absolutely ZERO clue what you are talking about. Because you peck it away on your keyboard, does not make it true.

I'm afraid the reverse is true. Your idiocy borders on insanity.

Why do I keep responding? Ill tell you why. To help irradicate the complacintcy of those who do not respond. The whole reason these "theories" get traction is because people who know better dont say "what the fuck is wrong with you?" enough. No repsponse =s agreement to wackos like you.

:1orglaugh :1orglaugh :1orglaugh

Right... you are the beacon of light and all knowing

I'm afraid the reverse is true. Wean yourself off such literary classics as THE CAT IN THE HAT and try absorbing something scholarly.

Read this 696 page book from Michael Ruppert, who recently briefed congress:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/086...lance&n=283155

Few million candles will surely light the darkest brain.. err room. Cant not respond hoping others will do it for me. Thats the lefties that think that way, not I.

So in other words you voted for Bush? Yea that explains a lot..

:1orglaugh :1orglaugh :1orglaugh
How true!!! :1orglaugh :1orglaugh :1orglaugh

best post of the day! =)

http://www.alternet.org/story/12536/

Read it son.

Proudly twice. In fact I campaigned for him and am an RNC card carrying member. :winkwink: :winkwink:

http://www.icedradio.com/DSCN2283s.jpg

The morons here that go with a conspiracy theory are dicks of the highest order.

I'm an outsider looking in so I am not influenced by Bush negativity or political emotions.

For fuck sake, some fool here said you couldn't fly a big machine and find the target. I was in a plane that was lost in bad weather and we found the target 300 kilometres away as fucking novices. Finding those two large buildings would been simple. In fact blind freddy would have found them.

Guys, it did happen. It was easy to pull off and the only fucking conspiracy was the arabs getting together to pull off this monstrosity.

Get a fucking life. I bet the clots here that go with the Bush conspiracy are shitting themselves that the bird flu is going to get them. I bet they think this is a conspiracy as well.

Stop feeding this bullshit up in a porn forum.

Lyn from Oz

Yep.. let's do that...
In the history of steel framed buidlings, none have ever collapsed due to fire...
The 1991 Meridian Plaza fire burned for 19 hours and flames came from dozens of windows on many floors. It did not collapse.

Yet here we have 3 buildings.. all collapsing in freefall manner within a short period of each other.. The north tower's fire lasted only 16 minutes.. The fires in the South Tower and WTC-7 were small.

WTC-7 was unharmed by an airplane and had only minor fires on the seventh and twelfth floors of the 47-story steel building yet it collapsed in less than 10 seconds.
WTC-5 and WTC-6 had raging fires but did not collapse despite much thinner steel beams..
Each collapse produced molten steel identical to that generated by explosives, resulting in "hot spots" that persisted for months (the two hottest spots at WTC-2 and WTC-7 were approximately 1,350o F five days after being continuously flooded with water, a temperature high enough to melt aluminum.. Jet fuel, no matter its form, cannot burn or cause anything else to burn to a temperature that would cause this to happen...

Oh wait.. I forgot.. We're not supposed to factor these things in.. We're just supposed to accept what the gov't folks say and go on about our bidness..

The only 3 buildings in the history of framed structures to freefall due to fire.. DAMN that's amazing... :)

I am well aware of David Corn of The Nation fame. He has been outed as a shill for the establishment and a 99% likely CIA asset.

Google Operation Mockingbird

It hasnt on numerous other occasions planes have hit buildings , and these werent normal buildings , they were EACH built specifically to withstand TWO planes hitting them.

I guess they shouldnt have built them to withstand planes hitting them , because buildings that ARENT built to withstand planes , seem to be perfectly fine , but building MADE for withstanding planes , just collapse.. and cause buildings nearby to also collapse..

Wow.. I'm impressed by your knowledge.. I better go email the physicists, scientists, and high rise architects and let them know that you say they have zero clue.. I'm sure they'll change their way of thinking and throw their phd's in the garbage..
I'll be sure to tell them that the 60 ton plane turned to jello so their 'conspiracy theories' can be put to rest...

hey wonton just ordered that book :thumbsup

WTF does the amount of fuel tanks have to do with anything? A 767 carries roughly 23,000 gallons of fuel, regardless of how may tanks. A plane like that is not fully loaded with fuel flying from the east coast to the west coast, not with a range of 6,600 miles.

And dude, holding a lighter to a fucking spoon doesnt do anything but make it black. That is one of the funniest things I've ever heard. And you call other people stupid? :1orglaugh

What year was the wtc built? What size was the avearge plane back then? This has all been gone over and over and fucking over and fucking over....

Awesome! I gaurantee you that it will rock your world. I had bought a half dozen copies and loaned it out to friends and relatives all across the spectrum - housewives, Phd scientists, Doctors, filmmakers, average joe's, a couple of pornographers and one mid echelon state politician.

100% of the above people believed the gov/media account before reading the book.

100% of the above people disbelieved the gov/media account after reading the book.

There is so much more to the book than 911 - oil politics, covert operations, corporate and financial rigging, geopolitics....prepare to understand the world at a whole new level.

CROSSING THE RUBICON

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/086...lance&n=283155

Of course anyone who disagrees with your "theories" is either ignorant, brainwashed or a CIA operative. Any evidence which contradicts your "theories" is government agitprop. How convenient. I hear the black helicopters circling as we speak.

Ahh see now in this post we point out how big and heavy the plane is. Smokey is saying that a 60 ton plane shouldnt be able to bring a building down. Ok you two better get together and plan out your stories. :winkwink: :thumbsup

Ok numbnuts. You have to weight the end of the spoon duh. And B: The fuel tanks didnt all necessarily blow up on the plane. There is a tank in each wing, and one on the underbelly.

No - just the ones who really are establishment shills like Anne Coulter, Sean Hannity, David Korn, Bill O'Reilly and many more...

And yes, the rest are ignorant but not without hope.

If you are hearing the buzz of non-existant black helicopters time for a mental health check-up.

:pimp

Dude you are hopeless.

Hmm.. Are those flames I see coming out of that explosion proof glass??
http://physics911.net/7-pentmorris.jpg

And why is that li'l ol' car there if the entire plane was burned into nonexistence?

Just curious? :)

First you're going to tell me with a fireball that size not all the tanks would be effected, and then you say if lead weight at the end of a spoon you can weaken it with a lighter. Are you talking about plastic spoons or something? You cannot weaken metal with a fucking lighter. Are you trying to be stupid? You're doing a pretty damn good job.

My understanding was they were build to withstand a hit from a 727 class aircraft. The terrorist planned it specifically to use a jumbo jet with nearly a full load of fuel.... thus the short flight from Boston to NYC.

You really didn't read what I posted..

BTW, I didn't and don't endorse the theory that the USA has masterminded this attack .. I do believe tough that at a certain time they were aware of it ( there is enough evidence on that ) and decided to ignore it as it fitted their goal.

Now, to come top your stupid tree example, sure if the trees are there, even if nobody saw them we could logically conclude that they fallen.

Now, in the same woods, there is a house . The house ends up being sqashed. Authorities say it is those trees that fell on it, but there is no substantial remains of the tree to back that ascertion ... Get the picture ???


I hope , on your premises, that you never get accused of murder, because it will be up to you to prove, without any doubt, that you are innocent... Otherwise, under your so called logic, you ass will belong to BUBBA ...

I was alive when the towers were built. Many of you guys weren't even born yet. I've been in the WTC, and my father had an office there once.

If you do research on how the WTC towers were designed it was actually a flimsy concept to begin with and many architects at the time questioned the viability of the building's integrity.

The WTC was built with an inner core as the main support structure. The outer sides of the building were just attached to the beams but not in a way its usually done for wider building support and they were lifted in big sections.
One of the advantages of this was to allow for wide open offices without as many vertical beams intersecting the floor space.

If you look at the top of this pic you can see how the sides were attached during construction floor by floor.

http://toweringskyscrapers.tripod.co...nstruction.jpg

http://www.dfngallery.com/images/selwyn_wtc_504.gif

So essentially it was like taking a tree and draping a sheet over it, thus creating a sold inside main pole and a more flexible exterior like branches extended out.

The discussion back then was that this type of design would enable the buildings to flex better in the event a hurricane ever hit in the NYC area, just like a tree bends over. And they also said if the concept ever failed it would let the buildings pancake to the ground instead of toppling over onto adjacent buildings.

Thus the towers collapsed exactly how they were supposed to. What caused the buildings to initiate the pancake process was the intense heat generated by the jet fuel and the office furniture and other combustible materials.

One of the big fuckups in the design, and probably done back then to save time and money, was a thinner than normal fire retardent foam spray on the floor beams. Because it wasn't very thick the flames were able to breach into the steel enough to allow the floor beams to bend.

This led to fuckup two in the design where the support bolts on the outer sides connect to the inner core beams were not strong enough to keep the beams attached with that significant amount of bending happening.

Once the outer bolts snapped from that much pressure the top floors had no more support and the weight pancaked the entire floor at once.

This created a very simple domino effect downward with each subsequent floor collapsing adding more mass, pressure and velocity to the equation.

And that is the REALITY.

And who knows maybe there was advanced knowledge of the plans to attack us and they deliberately ignored.

The more research you do, the more you find just the usual government incompetence and blundering like always.

We glorify government way too much. We think they will protect us. What the fuck is a government when you think about it?? Its just a bunch a regular people. They aren't supermen. They are just common people working in a gigantic beauracrcy and like anything that big, inevitably you will have lots of humans fucking things up.

Lol not a standard lighter. One of the ones you use to sauter with.

Yep I do.. and at 500mph, inertia dictates that the wings would shear off because they wouldn't have time at that speed to just fold back and enter a smallish hole..

Wings are designed to give a bit vertically, but not horizontally..
and to think that BOTH wings could fold back into the fuselage and pass completely through the hole is a bit of a stretch...

Nice post. They still wont listen though. Had to of been the government lol :1orglaugh

Well if you say that inertia dictates it, then surely you must be right. :uhoh cause after all inertia dictates it.
















Btw make sure you wash your hands after pulling that right out your stinky conspiracy filled ass. :1orglaugh :1orglaugh :1orglaugh :1orglaugh :1orglaugh

Don't be stupid, everything flows south to the bottom of the planet. Everyone knows that. DUH :winkwink:

Well.. I was referring to the Pentagon deal..

But as far as the wtc goes.. seems to me if it was the impact from the planes that brought em down, it wouldn't have taken as long as it did for them to drop..

And with the photos showing that a huge portion of the fuel burned outside of the buildings.. can't really see how the fule can be the cause either..

Then there's wtc7 that had no plane impact.. yet it fell in the exact same manner as the other two...

Nope.. I don't have all the facts.. just some questions.. and I am more inclined to lean toward the research presented by those with the expertise, who have done the research, tests, equasions, yada yada..

I'm not hinting of a conspiracy.. not saying Bush did it.. Not saying our gov't did it.. I'm just saying that, from all I have read, and from the photos I've seen, I'm seeing a different story than what the gov't is telling...

The WTC towers were solidly constructed with 47 steel core
columns and 240 perimeter steel beams.

Of the more than 170 areas examined on 16 perimeter column panels, only three columns had evidence that the steel reached temperatures above 250ºC? Only two core column specimens had sufficient paint remaining to make such an analysis, and their temperatures did not reach 250 ºC. ... Using metallographic analysis, NIST determined that there was no evidence that any of the samples had reached temperatures above 600 ºC.

http://www.physics911.net/stevenjones.htm
Let me guess Steven E Jones is clueless.

You've just single handedly killed off any credibility you could have possibly mustered for your arguments. How the fuck does a card carrying Republican engage in the porn industry?

There's no fucking excuse! Porn is in direct irrefutable conflict with the mores and direction of the Republican Party, the Republican ethic.

Unless you're some super secret shill just posting to offset any counter viewpoints, you're a hippocrite.

It's like here in Hollywood we have gay talk show hosts who are right wing. WTF? That's like some 'Fannie Dooley' shit. ( only old asses here will recall Fannie Dooley ).

Sticky.....look at aerial photo.... without analysis it looks like pretty massive damage to a highly reinforced structure and a big chunk of outer ring destroyed

http://media.popularmechanics.com/im...911_001-lg.jpg
HQ ATTACK: Taken three days after 9/11, this photo shows the extent of the damage to the Pentagon, consistent with a fiery plane crash.

What I actually love about that picture is that you are expected to believe that the wings of the plane completely vaporized but some shitbox car survived the carnage.

VIDEO: Hannity and Colmes counterattack against Charlie Sheen:

http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles...nitycolmes.htm

Thanks Sticky!

Here's another great page of information that is in the final report of all the government fuckups that day.

Read the minute by minute responses in all the various government agencies. What a fucking joke with so many miscommunications happening. It was like a 911 call gone wild. LOL

http://www.9-11commission.gov/report/911Report_Ch1.htm

Christ almighty, the scariest finding to me was that the NCA (National Command Authority) Secure Hotline Phone on Air Force One wasn't even working properly and Bush kept getting disconnected when he was trying to call Cheney in the White House Bunker and Rumsfeld at the NMCC (National Military Command Center) in the Pentagon. This is the phone and communications system used by Air Force One and the Looking Glass 747's in the event of a nuclear attack or national emergency to enable all the political leaders to conference call with the JCS generals.

I've had my doubts from time to time about certain things also. But after seeing how the government responded when Katrina hit the gulf states, my conspiracy thoughts pretty much evaporated.

It was all about incompetence and blunders.

KRL, you have made some thoughtful and level-headed posts. I thank you for that.

However, I would IMPLORE you to scrutinize the government's "ommission report" a bit more closely.

Not that I expect you to immediately order this book, but if you ever come across it on a vist to Barne's and Nobles, PLEASE scan through it:

The 9/11 Commission Report: Omissions And Distortions
by David Ray Griffin

From Publishers Weekly
The 9/11 commission report "simply cannot be trusted," concludes this retired Claremont School of Theology professor. Following up on his call for an official investigation in The New Pearl Harbor (2004), Griffin revisits the cataclysmic events and deconstructs the government's probe. He offers two mind-numbing versions of an "alternative conspiracy theory": that the Bush administration "deliberately" failed to prevent the attacks or, more chillingly, "was actively involved in the planning and execution of the attacks." Why? To spur the invasion of Iraq and Afghanistan and the occupation of their valuable oil and natural gas resources. Embracing the complicity theory, Griffin claims the 9/11 Commission's report, labeled the Kean-Zelikow Report here to underline the White House allegiances of its Republican chairman and director, was neither thorough nor non-partisan but rather a "cover-up" designed to back up the Bush administration's view of the day's events. Among the problems Griffin says the commissioners fail to address are discrepancies in the hijackers' identities; the behavior exhibited by President Bush and his Secret Service contingent in Florida; and the charges of obstruction by higher-ups made by FBI agent Coleen Rowley and other mid-level officials. In fact, "revisionism" was the Commission's major goal, argues the author, since the report reconstructs the timelines of the hijackings, officials' teleconferences and the plane crashes to absolve the military of mishandling jet fighters' intercepts of the doomed passenger aircraft. Supported by news media reports, government documents and readily available secondary sources, Griffin's research raises valid questions about the Commission's political aims and investigative methods. But unless future Woodwards and Bernsteins dig up evidence to the contrary, the author's theories about a government role in the 9/11 plot will remain pure speculation.
Copyright ? Reed Business Information, a division of Reed Elsevier Inc. All rights reserved.

Richard Falk
"David Ray Griffin establishes himself, alongside Seymour Hersh, as America's number one bearer of unpleasant, yet necessary, public truths."


http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/156...Fencoding=UTF8

Gee! that'll show me..

You really need to brush up on your physics if you think otherwise..

In that you like experiments.. try running through a brick framed door at 500 mph with your arms stretched out.. I'm sure they'll just fold back and pass right on through the door...
Now imagine 2 55' wings just folding back and doing the same thing...

oh.. and let's not forget the vertical stabilizer must have folded back too..
What an amazing aircraft that must be..

Generally speaking our air defences w e r e setup primarily for attacks coming from outside the country.... not within.

The capitol would be an exception to this general rule and I tend to agree with the "massive series of fuckups" theory. Caught with our panties down.:moon Fighters scrambled but too late to do any good...

Then what level of command authority necessary to destroy civilian aircraft over major city and how long would that take?

Discovery Channel had a whole documentary explaining this, made sense to me.

What doesn't make sense to me is WTC 7 coming down in the same manner and that video of Silverstein saying to go ahead and "pull" it. I'm a bit confused on that part.

It goes to a lack of motive for the President and/or his administration. Of course I suppose you or any other conspiracy theorist can say rogue CIA/FBI/Military or maybe Santa's elves.

http://www.sex303.com/forumpics/911plane.jpg
Them wingz be chopped and the rimz be spinnin' yo.

No honky pentagram buildin' gonna shut this muthafucka down. :thumbsup