Doctor Dre's comment about hotlinking being illegal is incorrect, in this particular case anyway.

Hotlinking for commercial gain, yes, a website could certainly have a case. Little Billy hotlinking on his MySpace profile, definitely not illegal.

Webpages are not like PDF files for instance where individual files can be saved/stolen and then presented by the false owner as their own work. When a webpage loads it can consist of the work of multiple people, and be served by the owners themselves. The actual owner of the .HTML file is not claiming ownership of the individual elements that are hotlinked.


I am done with this thread. Smart people who've been around the internet block a few times and are not just all talk know that my points have been correct.

What he did wasn't the "nice thing" to do. However, since the law does not require you to be nice, and since hotlinkers have no right to the hotlinked content, the host had no business changing his file, and most definitely had no right to prevent him from changing it.

Imagine the following situation:
-You find yourself being hotlinked by a huge site.
-You install hotlink protection. Now, hotlinked images show Goatse.
-The huge site mails your host, your host removes your hotlink protection.
-You install hotlink protection again. Now, hotlinked images say "buy books at mysite.com".
-You host removes your hotlink protection again, and for good measure shuts you out of your account.

If you think the host or the huge site are in the right here, you are out of your mind. And that's pretty much exactly what happened here.

I'm curious...

If a surfer forum was linking to a movie you have on your server and it ran up your BW bill, I'm sure you would take immediate action to block them or "seek revenge". Would you not? So let's assume you put up a ******* video on your server. Its your server, you can put up whatever legal material you want, right? Well, this surfer forum doesn't like ******* near as much as GFY does, so they email your host complaining about your totally legal movie instead of taking action and correcting their wrong doing. Your host, for whatever reason, agrees with the surfer forum and they pull down your legal video without saying boo to you.

How would you respond? The surfer forum has a right to change legal content on YOUR server?

Whether hotlinking is legal or not is actually irrelevant to this case. What matters is that sites hotlinking you have no intrinsic rights to the content of files on your server, your file structure or your file naming. Unless, of course, you entered into an agreement with the hotlinkers. But that isn't the case here.

Suing implies having a lot of $$$. Especially agaisn't a big corp like myspace... The dude was most likely on a virtual host (if they toutched files on his dedicated that's even more fucked up). I doubt he have the ressources.

That's their problem... he dosen't have to know about the policies and problem of the website hotlinking him...

He's only cutting his loss, that's it and that's all. It's their problem to regulate users on their network, if they are going to do stupid shit, and they allow it (they could only allow hotlinks from a free image server they would host, and a couple other accepted sites) .

You don't go arround and change people's website because your users can't comply to your rules or are doing something illegal with your network.

I'm part of a team that runs a similar site as myspace btw (and not too small, arround 700 000 page views daily right now). We monitor what our users do... we have a report form and somebody on it all the time. Any picture added to their profiles, is on our server. We do not allow any flash/javascript because of the possible exploits. We also approve the profiles 1 by 1 so there is no spam and we also limit the ammount of messages you send daily... lots of other features to help limiting this kind of action. Normally when something like that happens it don't stay up for more then 1 hour. If they grew too fast, and didn't think about that, it's not the problem of the guy getting hotlinked. He's cutting his losses.

I understand from your posts that you are a big fan of Myspace, and probably a heavy user too... and understand their problem to regulate their users action since you read about it a lot. But it's THEIR problem, not anybody elses.

omg someone understands :)

He should not sue MySpace, but his host. MySpace are allowed to send out all the ridiculous demands they want, but his host is not allowed to harm his business without compelling legal reasons.

Actually everyone except Matt 26z understands.

Sounds to good to be true? lol

not really i want to get a myspace letter or email asking me to change some users files i really want to see them try this bullshit :)

People in this business are getting stiffed thousands of $$$ from others and they don't even sue. Not worth the trouble. Now he'd sue a host for bad business practices ? Unless you're Perfect 10, anybody telling anybody else to sue (especially when that person never sued anybody) shuld shut up.

Don't take that as an insult, it's not. It's just not worth the trouble... Unless you are a big boy, wanna make a statement or your territory.

If he has the resources, it could be well worth it. People in this industry could sue far more often than they currently do, but that doesn't mean lawsuits aren't often justified and, indeed, a reasonable step to take. The virtual nature of this business too often causes us to deal with problems in a virtual way.

Of course, creating this thread was probably a bad step if he intends to sue, and if he can't prove damages it may not be worth it either way.

How do I contact you? If you prefer not to say e-mail me budz.budz ( at ) gmail.com :thumbsup thx

I'd never sue anyone unless I really had too...

I just wanted to... , I guess vent.. lol

see sig find icq

LOL

That sucks. I would first sue your host for damaging files.. Then i would sue myspace for both harassment and for damages.

I've seen a very popular host DELETE all .htaccess files spread over 20 sites - and then send a courtest email 2 days later when the owner asked them what the fuck was going on.

*grrr

You, I will come back and respond to since you are not name calling and actually want to exchange opinions.

I think we all know that once a webhost has been notified of questionable behavior, the webhost 99% of the time is going to take action. GFY is quick to notify them of content thief's, and it is expected that the site will be removed in short order even though the webhost has nothing to do with the site itself.

In your example above, as you said, there is nothing illegal going on. I would not expect a webhost to remove content in a scenario you have described. I would be VERY upset if they did.

Let me use this example though...

Sly, lets say you run the largest surfer forum in the world (that is supposed to be family friendly) and some of your surfers hotlink a flash video from me to go in their posts. I know the hotlinking is taking place, but I don't implement .htaccess or even contact you to put a stop to what your members are doing. Instead, I modify the file to pop an XXX ad on your family friendly forum.

You, of course being the largest forum in the world, don't want to take on the massive burden of relying on your software (and the extra needed hardware) to filter out all of the people attempting to do stuff like this (nor do you want to become a SPAM hotbed for porn sites), so you nip this in the bud and go to my webhost. Right?

Well there I am, left with a hosting bill because of what your surfers started. In the end, all I had to do was implement .htaccess or contact you instead of letting it blow up into something it shouldn't have after taking justice into my own hands. Right?

i hope you switched hosts, i would not pay the bill and if its auto billed do a chargeback. thats bullshit.

100 shitty webhosts

First off , myspace is now ACTIVELY selling porn. So they are a competing business as far as im concerned, so this is a pretty clear case of a competing business trying to muscle out its competition by harassing its clients.. myspace has deep pockets... myspace is hotlinking my files right now , so technically they are doing to me what they are accusing you of doing. I have sent several notices to myspace staff yet they do not act upon the complaints.. funny how they think they can specify how they choose to steal content..


Dear user, we are stealing pictures from your server, but the pictures arent good enough, please replace your pictures with better ones..


Fuck the more i think about this situation it pisses me off...

heres an even better example..

Your neighbour has a hidden cam setup to look into your bedroom and watch you.. he gets mad because you put up a lamp in the window to block the view, so he cotacts your landlord has him break into your apartment and remove the lamp that is blocking the neighbour from filming you and selling the video for profit..

HAHA perfect example..

This is the "Mr Correct" answer... I would have htaccessed it. (I actually htaccess all my shit anyways).

I see your point, but you aren't necessarry right on a legal (business) standpoint. Wich is what people are seeing in this thread...

He didn't do anythig illegal, so his host shouldn't have done anything either.

If they want to clean up myspace, there are ways to do it... Look in my post above how we keep our site clean. Their system is way flawed, and frankly it pretty much sucks. There is a way to control the freedom on your surfers while letting them do pretty much whatever the fuck they want (eg : gfy).

The simple request they did was wrong, as well as the action taken.

and like I said, you seem to love and cherish myspace ... they probably wouldn't do shit if you asked them to stop hotlinking the pics.

And here your reasoning fails.

First of all, the burden of managing (hot)links to content falls upon the shoulders of the site doing the (hot)linking.

Secondly, a host should not modify the content of its clients without legally compelling reasons to do so.

Imagine a site that has a "picture of the month", an image with the same filename that changes every month. Some are pornographic, some are non-nude. If people start hotlinking the picture, should the host of the site they belong to prohibit the client from ever using pornographic content again?

What was the original flash file?

it was a bong flash file..

the old virtual bong hit made by snap a load

Yes, you are 100% correct. You hotlink without permission, who knows if the file will remain the same. This is generally the number one reason not to hotlink, ever.

I don't appreciate being called an idiot in this thread. I feel like I'm maybe not explaining my view clearly enough and there is a misunderstanding.

It's not that I think sites should be able to hotlink anything they want without permission, and then hold the file owner responsible if the file changes. That would be absolutely ridiculous.

I guess my point all along has been that when you are being hotlinked, you've got some viable options. Contacting the website about it's users or taking advantage of .htacces would be two really great starting points.

Modifying the file with potentially offensive material for the purpose of commercial gain at the other website is probably not the best route to take.


SORRY if I offended anyone in this thread. These are just my worthless little opinions to kill some time on GFY. One thing I think we can all agree on though is that now we know MySpace's stance on this issue, and that it's best to not put yourself in a position with them that the original poster did.

i see you really dont get it so here i go

IDIOT
IDIOT
IDIOT
IDIOT
IDIOT
IDIOT
IDIOT
IDIOT
IDIOT
IDIOT
IDIOT
IDIOT

no, you explained it just fine.

idiot.

lol @ idiot remarks

that really has lightened my mood

btw,
I'd like to give a special thanks to Sandman! from http://www.adultsitebrokers.com/
for some gracious generosity and just being a helluva guy.

now back to your regularly scheduled alcohol servings.

Ha ha ha

Lets get one thing straight.

Anyone who agrees with his method and emulates him is leaving themselves open to the same end result.

Anyone who agrees with me will never find themselves in his position.

Who's the idiot now?

what same end result ?

i am hosting his site as of now and as long as the content of his websites are follow the tos his site will never be disabled :)

You're still the idiot. Cuz I would love to be in his position of having an ad pop up all over myspace... the problem isn't him, o ye with a dim light on, the problem was his pussy fucking hosting company stopped it without his consent.

And, fucktard, I am sure he will put the shit back as soon as he gets another hosting company who has some balls.

go fuck yourself and your fucked up perception of reality no one is with your thinking no matter what way you try to spin it in the end your just an IDIOT

hosting has been taken care of :)

Heh.

Well I'm not going to even bother arguing with the spammer and shady business types. You guys are set in your ways.

Spam here, spam there. Figure out a way to get ads on MySpace.

Anyone who disagrees with the practice must be a total idiot!

Whatever...

I think I'll stick to legit business thank you.

Sweeeeeet... you should sell ad space ;) on the downlow :thumbsup

Same end result ? There isn't a single host who is profetional who will allow this.

Or if you're talking about myspace, and porn ending up on my website, well I'm smart enough not to let this happen.

Wanna bet? Unless we are talking about hosts who deal with shady clients, they ALL would have bowed down to MySpace. Every single one of them.

They may come into this thread stating otherwise, but the bottom line is that when a company that was just sold for nearly $600 Million asks a small webhost to do something, they are going to do it.

Right or wrong, they are going to do it.

It was at this very moment that i realized, you have to be fucking with us, cuz no one is really that stupid.