TheDoc

Not posted stats, told people how stats work, information on stats info so people can learn how crap works better. Trial to converts, cb ratios, retention, all that goodies, pps vs revshare, all kinds of crap. Not like screenshots and stuff

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xxxice

http://totemcash.com/free/top100.php

http://totemcash.com/free/figures.php

xxxice

I wish all sponsors would be more open with things like that. And I do appreciate that you also have also shared useful info like this. In the long run helps both parties out and if not anything motivates affiliates to do more ...

TheDoc

I'm not talking about "posted screenshot snaps" or the top 100. I'm talking about stat information.

Like, the industry average trial to convert, without upgrades is 20%. That kind of stat info

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TheDoc

I have posted my stats a few times, not often. Lots of people ask though and I tell them, and have shown a few. If I know you of course.

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TheDoc

Welp gota head out for a few hours, open your minds people, I'm not trying to say kill them all, but they do have good sides and bad sides. It has nothing to do with my pr, my se hits, any of the extra bs you people bring up.

Fact is, they take traffic I once had on my own, which really is fine. But what sucks fucking ass is now I have to pay them, on traffic they didn't build. They just get lucky, using my domain name as a keyword, and get free money because of it. Anyone can say Ihahaha8217;m wrong, but the fact is, it blows ass to pay someone else on your own branding.

I see it both ways, just sucks to fight for domain name keywords, that didnhahaha8217;t have much if any searches before I started up. I owned all the listings even with my standard webmasters, but review sites added me and got free listings, damn good ones at that. And that TGP that is #1, he will die off soon enough, sometimes TGPhahaha8217;s popup and take a few of the top spots for us all. BTW, I do own more than one site, with different keywords, even sites not in EGC.

Someone has to start up some BS around here, ithahaha8217;s been getting boring.

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Crypt

shhhhhhhhhhhhhh ;)

bdld

trust me it's not luck.

TheDoc

I really have no idea if you are a webmaster of mine, not in my ICQ list so kinda hard to keep up with everyone.

However, if you quit sending to a program because they had the balls to stand up and speak their minds about something, then... well I guess you know.

It's about the same thing if we killed webmasters because didn't like what they said about some things. Hell, we would all be fucked.

ok, back to my break

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beemk

actually considering you dont have the spot, im sure you dont get any sales off that term on the se's.

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crockett

Yea but for example the first listing the guy wasn't even targeting your keywords. He was getting the listing out of pure keyword density of the words Busty and Amateur.

Seriously the only thing you can do is go to work and get your site back up top. Even if you kill off the review sites, it's not going to solve your problem.

If it were my site, I'd buy any open domain I could with your keywords on them and build little free sites that all linking back you your sites. Trade hard links on those site so they get some ranking and PR on them.

PR doesn't mean everything but it does help, that and you can't beat link popularity from targeted sites.

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devilspost

they take traffic I once had on my own

Man if your site wasnt listed on thebestporn or rabbits the joins you get from them wouldnt even happen. You are crying about somthing you cant change and should have STFU after the first page.

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Brothels and Escorts Worldwide.

TheDoc

You guys are to simple minded for this post. Its not about taking my joins, they take the traffic / joins I had, and send me the same traffic I was getting anyway, and send that same traffic to other people. The over power the listings, nobody beats out the review sites. You may get the top slot for your domain name, but they still take up a large part of the listings.

Some of the HUGE sites, that people like to make examples with, have some serious SE guys pushing them as webmasters and paid.

Overall, I get less sales because of them anyway. And 1 inhouse sale is worth 5 webmaster sales. No way the review site beat that ratio on that traffic + the traffic they had.

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FleshJoe2005

I dont see how you can prevent any old review site from reviewing you. Ah, lightbulb goes on, of course, its the same way you own the search terms "busty amateur boobs". Sure

Get a clue....

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Send me your traffic and we'll split 50-50.
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Far-L

TheDoc: I mean absolutely no disrespect and I - as a fellow owner of a highly branded paysite - agree with much of what you are saying in spirit ; however, I think that if your site is that well branded then it would/should/could be branded as efficiently throughout the metatags etc for the seo and make your issue mute as far as search results/positioning.

With respect to review sites offering other sites with better reviews I get that point too. We get great reviews and average reviews and in some cases the average review is converting better than the great one. No explanation for me other than content is content is content and people will always buy what appeals to them - emotionally, physically, spiritually. For example - Pacino's Scarface got some lousy reviews when it came out but people still saw it and love it to this day. My point is that the review site is still capable of making sales and the more press you have out there the more chances you have of a customer noticing you.

I am in the same boat as you with respect to generating far and away the majority of our traffic in house. We don't have many affiliates these days and when we were the number one CE program and had thousands of affiliates we were still sending more traffic than all of them combined. With the amount of mainstream press we have I would never let an affiliate say that they created our branding - in fact, I can definitely say that our branding effort is a great benefit to our affiliates. And that is my next observation - that you want affiliates to be able to take advantage of your branding but you should always be able to lead them all. Thus, it is only fair that they be able to sell whatever programs they want just as it is your right to decide what is sold and who gets to sell it for you.

Ultimately - review sites are highly search friendly but there is no reason you cannot outperform them if you are truly the source for your brand and there is no reason you should not be able to earn from them at the same time in a happy and profitable co-existence, imo.

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baddog

I don't think it is a good thing. They are losing affiliates as a result.

TheDoc

Old review sites? Like current ones that list me? I'm not going to ask them to remove my listings, but I could, even though I wouldn't. New reveiw sites, I can stop though, which I have.

I don't own it, but it sure as hell wasn't searched before I did own it.

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Chris

We welcome affilates to try to our rank our rankings
we do not go out of our way to get better rankings or even worry about SE's

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FreeHugeMovies

Hehe this is a good thread.

abyss_al

we actually help them

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xNetworx

I understand your point but there is nothing you can do about it apparently.

baddog

How? If I am an affiliate, and you won't give me a free pass, I can always buy my own membership . . . . right?

TheDoc

Good post Without having to explain everything, we brand on few close spelled domains through DVD's and such. Also other areas online we market at, much heavier than SE's. I can see how well the branding does do. I also know how well the webmasters branding does.

Webmasters on here, and myself went in different directions. My point is I flat don't like people targeting the exact domain as a keyword. Review sites rip 'clean' traffic that should hit the paysite, or they should have the option to hit the base url first. Yes, I understand my webmasters do se marketing too, but their listings move around, they don't TARGET the damn domain, and review sites always sit in the top 10. So it's always a fight to get good listings, on keywords that spell out my domain name, that didn?t have searches for them before the domain was open.

And, what is really stupid, is half the people here think I only have one site. I?m not talking about, one example. This happens to myself and everyone with a program/domain that allows reviews. (not everyone does) I know for a fact other program owners don?t like it, they just won?t speak up, unlike yourself. While others love them.

I have a webmaster, WHO DID post in this thread, and didn't agree with me either. He has some serious rankings on my key terms and other busty key terms. Why don't have I a problem with him? Because, the surfer can't come in and have the option to select from 50 other busty sites or 100's of other niched sites, when the person was looking for my site/content. He SE markets my sites, with content, and doesn't push the traffic to other boob sites. 100% fair.

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TheDoc

At this exact second in time, you could. However, when you ask for a free pass I tell you we don't allow reviews. Here shortly it will be in our terms, you must be approved to review our sites, being if a free site wants to do a quick review and promote our products, fine. If a review sites wants to do it and I have to compete with other sites in the listing, then no.

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V_RocKs

YOU IGNORANT FUCK!

NO! I do not understand you yet.

Traffic from Yahoo, Google and MSN is NOT YOUR TRAFFIC!

YOU DID NOT EARN IT!

Traffic you get from traffic buys, xsells, upsells, and any other REAL method of aquiring traffic is YOUR TRAFFIC.

Stop your senseless bitching and learn how to promote your own goddamn program you ingrateful fuck!

I am branding your site and doing all the hard work for you!

Perfect Gonzo posts their own galleries (not FHG's, ones they paid to have made) at TGP's, link lists and other forms of gallery posts. They make deals for xsells and buy traffic. They run their own websites to add traffic.

YOU DO NOT OWN GOOGLE TRAFFIC, get that through your thick skull!

Google is NOT a government entity and does not have to put you at the top. You have to follow the same SEO guidelines as the rest of us do. PERIOD!

TheDoc

Nobody said I own the traffic, where did I say I own google, yahoos traffic? I said I own the key phrase. I may not be the legal owner, that wasn't the point, moron. How about getting that through "your thick head you ignorant fuck".

And I get plenty of traffic, and have plenty of it. I have seen your stats, you do some good sales, but you sure as fuck have room to call me out about traffic. Funny.

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Tempest

Sounds like greed to me... If you don't want to pay someone for generating traffic to their site that then makes it's way to yours, then close down your program. They're better at generating that traffic so honestly, why shouldn't you pay them?? If you're better than them, then all the money is yours. It's called a free market and capatilism. And I'm sure you're getting far more traffic from them for other tit/boob related searches than for the traffic they're "stealing" from you. I bet you wouldn't even be making most of the sales from those review sites if it wasn't for all their other traffic. The other benifit to having your site on those review sites is the additional branding you get which can lead to typins and sales down the road. Chalk it all up to indirect marketing costs.

If you don't want people to try and use your domain name to generate traffic for their site, then trademark it and start some lawsuits. But again, if I get a #1 listing for your domain name and you can't even be found, why the hell shouldn't you pay me for it?? You don't want us to use the domain name? then put it in your terms. But then you're going to get less traffic overall because the more restrictions you place on your affiliates, the less work they're going to do. If your affiliates aren't generating that many sales for you anyways so you wouldn't really care, then close down your program and do it all yourself.

As for the term "busty amateur boobs".. I'm sorry, but you don't "own" that term. It's too generic.. The site Busty Amateurs was generating searches for that phrase years before you, but because the site dissappeared and because overture does NOT always include everything all the time, there could very well have been many months where it wasn't showing up. And I know this for a fact.

I understand your frustration though. We ALL face it when it comes to the SE traffic. But at the end of the day, it's survival of the "best".

V_RocKs

You want to be a real program like Nasty Dollars that doesn't give a fuck about this senseless crap you speak of?

Start looking for ways to aquire traffic OUTSIDE of the SE's!

You are thinking way to small, Doc. That is your problem. You are thinking way to damn small... Next you will be lowering your payouts or something...

You have this thing called an affiliate program... You have this thing called a brain.. Put them both together and learn how to make more money.

V_RocKs

Thanks for noticing I've been coming up

Right, you do have more traffic than I do and make a lot more money than I do.

My point is if you spend less time worrying about the skimmed sales you are having and chalk it up to being a part of the business plan, then adjust the plan and your resources to target even more traffic, well... I think you see where this is going...

I dunno... perhaps you are hit an area that other sponsors have hit and some floundered (I got one in my head, their payout is $25) and others flourished, ND, TCG, TOPBUCKS, etc...

Personally, I think the 2 people who most helped out the programs while they were actually trying to 'take their SE traffic' are Donald Chase and Starterup Steve...

That frame cloaking with a link to the website in question (in the body portion) basically gave a HUGE PR boost to the website owners. Many have asked Google to remove the affiliate codes in the listings and it seems they got their wish...

devilspost

You do not own any fucking key phrase lol

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Brothels and Escorts Worldwide.

TheDoc

You seriously took the time to post that?

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TheDoc

I get most of my traffic from places outside the SE?s and my webmasters. (said above) We have our own little corner we play around in.

Most sites market me, like a TGP, may get a listing for the keyword but it will die down. Normally like a TGP will list a lot of my galleries. Or a free site, which will only advertise me, or a hosted gallery that is only me, etc. The thing is though; they didn't build the damn page to TARGET the domain keyword. It just happened, so it?s not a big deal.

Review sites, 100% target the keyword of the domain. Yes, they get other listings too, they send other traffic to, but the page is BUILT to take over your domain keywords, and just about everyone has that happen to them.


You can't really compare me and other "huge" companies together. First, I never ever want to be near that size again, money was great, but life sucked. And, I would never do half the things they do. Building a big program isn?t a secret, just depends on what you want.

EGC makes some great money, not millions or anything crazy. It's our 3rd largest source of income.

I target my own traffic, so SE traffic kind of hits home on those type of listings. Even though it isn?t close to our main source of traffic.

And btw, if I had anything to do, at all.. I wouldn?t post. I have a couple consulting packages to polish off, and 2 sick kids, why my posts are on and off. It?s the only reason I took the time to post this crap. And because someone posted on here, asked to do a review, which we said no too, this is why I made the post.

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Tom_PM

If you promote a paysite with adwords using an affiliate code, google requires you to use the real URL as the display URL.

The other point on adwords is that google only allows ONE ad to run per display URL.

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43-922-863 Shut up and play your guitar.

devilspost

I own the key phrase Make Money With Porn

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Brothels and Escorts Worldwide.

TheDoc

With the info on your site, and what it is for, I can see why you are reading this post. It's cool, you can learn from my posts and put it on your site so it has some useful information. I'm fine with it.

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devilspost

I can use all the help I can get

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Brothels and Escorts Worldwide.

Abyss_Vee

this thread is getting out of control... Doc i suggest you just give in because you know you are alone on this issue. no one seems to share the same view as you. You might have the domain, and it might have known keywords in it... In no way do you have rights to those keywords or first dibs on them. They are generic as everyone has stated. Be the bigger man and just admit that you are wrong on this issue. maybe that way you wont have all you affiliates read this thread and start getting second thoughts about promoting you..

devilspost

I will just link this thread as "what programs should not say to affiliate marketers" lol

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Brothels and Escorts Worldwide.

TheDoc

Actually some people have agreed with me on this post, and on ICQ. Everyone has a bit different view which is cool and I asked for, yours on the other hand is based off the fact that we wouldn?t let you review our sites.

And please, no webmasters are going to drop me because of this post. If that was the case, pimpdogg would have went out of business years ago. Webmasters don't give a fuck, if I convert, they get paid, they promote, simple. And it?s not like I?m bashing my webmasters or pulling accounts.

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TheDoc

54 hits, 6 webmaster signups, any questions?

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devilspost

I hope you do well its all good.

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Brothels and Escorts Worldwide.

TheDoc

Thanks

Pretty good domain name you have too. Interested in maybe selling it?

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devilspost

Thanks for the offer, but i just got it so I am having some fun with it.

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Brothels and Escorts Worldwide.

TheDoc

Want to review my site?

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SomeCreep

Whats up TheDoc. I've been following this thread. Good discussion.

I understand what you're saying, but webmasters will not agree with you on this. Especially considering "busty amateur boobs" is not trademarked, nor could it be. Hence, those keywords are fair game for anyone who wants to target them. You should be grateful, that the majority of webmasters who target those keywords choose to send some, if not all of the traffic to your site.

Wouldnt you agree that all of your affiliates combined, contribute more profit to your program, than you could generate on your own? Isnt that what matters?

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Webair Hosting

I use and recommend Webair for hosting.

Rui

for some reason this post reminded me of MetaformX

regarding the topic itself I don't really see how you can even consider yourself to be the "moral owner" of such terms, its not like you its a brand name...far from it

devilspost

I dont do real reviews I just link fhg's and tour links. no need for a pass.

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Brothels and Escorts Worldwide.

FreeHugeMovies

LOL going after your keywords to piss you off of course.

TheJimmy

haha I was going to ask how many new webmasters you got from this thread...


I knew a fairly unpopular guy in this world years ago who would drum up pissing contests for the program he was working with JUST to increase webmaster signups...


all drama/good or bad works here for this purpose...

I HEART gfy

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Trixxxia

TheDoc,
I can see your standpoint - however, in my opinion, the only time they are doing wrong (and I'm not referring to review sites) is when they are blatantly targetting your domain name and sending to a totally different sponsor & most likely they aren't your affiliate. This blows and yet you can't do anything about it cuz if it's not your affiliate, you can't even shut him down *if you're pissed*.

Review sites are keyword ladden, they are built for volume, they have similar sites, similar keywords, the are built intricately to get lots of traffic and their objective is to get the surfer to their site to read the reviews. Once the surfer is on the review, they hope to have convinced or given the surfer enough of an honest opinion to convince them to signup, if the surfer chooses to check other stuff then it's because the site didn't appeal to them or they wanted something a little different.

Some aren't necessarily targetting your keyword but yet will appear on top - because they mention those three keywords of your domain name in different areas of the review and have similar reviews with the same keywords so they get higher ranking. You can't penalize them for mentioning what's on your site, you can't penalize them for linking to BustyAmateurBoobs.com with the rest of the linkcode not showing. On that same note, you are also getting exposure, branding, traffic/signups from other keywords and other sites which you can't/weren't targetting in the first place.

If having reviews of your sites actually decreased your bottom line, then I'd have to say 'perhaps you got a point' but if, at the end of the month, your sales increased and your PNL increases and it keeps growing, you should be seeing this as a positive. You no longer have to concentrate on staying on top for those keywords (cuz they've got you up there) and you can work on gaining ground on an 'untapped' keywords. You are losing a little to gain alot more.