Land of the free? hahahahaha - Page 2 - GoFuckYourself.com

kenny · 01-16-2006, 08:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDoc

You don?t need an ssn or a birth cert. We have been around, organized, long before we had useless papers. Even then, if you look at them as what they are, they are GOV forms of ID, which only have to be used when dealing with or within the GOV. IE: You really don?t need to give your SSN to get a bank account, some forms of credit, (a natural person)

This still has nothing to do with keeping track of a robber/criminal though. Even if we had no standard form of id, if a person has committed a crime he is going to have prints. And even in todays standard, if he hasn?t done a crime, then they wouldn?t have prints, or be able to track whom it was, even with current forms of ID.

What sucks is they are taking prints for all kinds of crap these days, passports, drivers? licenses, and so on. For what? A ?possible? crime? I don?t plan on doing a crime and the statistical chances of it happening to me is super rare. So why do they need to keep track of me? And why with prints?

It kind of makes it impossible to run a functioning society when you don't keep track of things like weither or not they have children, and what country they live in.

You can argue it all day long. They didn't invent these things for your discomfort.

As for the criminal aspect of it - it makes it difficult to find suspects when there isn't even records of them existing.

I don't know what you're thinking but a government that doesn't keep track of it citizens is borderline anarchy.

kenny · 01-16-2006, 08:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by leggs

Citizenship does not guarantee a person would follow the laws of a particular area.

Citizenship does not guarantee you can keep track a person.

And if as the U.N. claims, "citizenship is a right."
Then it follows suit that if it is a "right" than it can NOT be an imposition.

If you force citizenship on a person that does NOT want it...
It becomes ownership.

And for the fact that the Canadian goverment has made it clear that for a sum of $x.xx dollars, the issue will disappear and they will acknowledge his renouncement.

It is in fact having to purchase his way out of slavery.

Now personally I don't care if I'm a citizen or not. I go where I want to go and do what I want. And if Canada has a problem with that, they can go to hell.

If you living in a society structured by government then you're a citizen.

I don't see how you expect to live within the system and not be a part of it.

Thats not how it works - like they say

You can't have your cake and eat it too

Imagine living in a place where nobody was accounted for.

The Demon · 01-16-2006, 08:41 PM

I will say it once again for all you moronic porno pushers. If you are unsatisfied with the way this country is run(liberal), get the hell out, nobody wants you here..

leggs · 01-16-2006, 08:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kenny

If you living in a society structured by government then you're a citizen.

I don't see how you expect to live within the system and not be a part of it.

Thats not how it works - like they say

You can't have your cake and eat it too

Imagine living in a place where nobody was accounted for.

Just out of curiosity...
How does having citizenship equal "accounted for"

Is it a special "Number" you get?

kenny · 01-16-2006, 10:15 PM

In the sense that they know what fucking country you belong to.

Listen..

I don't like tax laws.. doesn't mean I can say fuck it and not pay taxes.

Where I live I'm required to pay taxes and there is a reason for that.

Where I live I must be a registered citizen and there is a good reason for that.

I suppose if you really felt oppressed about it you can move to some jungle where they don't give a fuck

bhutocracy · 01-16-2006, 11:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sarah_webinc

I don't know about other people but when I was about five or so they came around our schools (in the States) and took our fingerprints under the guise that if we were kidnapped it would help them find us.

I didn't have to do it to become British but we are all getting bio-metric identity cards soon enough so it will be taken care of then.

Yeah!! lol sneaky fucks.. the cops came around for a "police day" at a similar age here and we all got to have a "go" of the ink like it was a game by giving finger prints and filling out the form etc.. fucking sneaky way to get them before you're old enough to realise the full ramifications.

bhutocracy · 01-16-2006, 11:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Demon

I will say it once again for all you moronic porno pushers. If you are unsatisfied with the way this country is run(liberal), get the hell out, nobody wants you here..

yeah - noone except almost half the population - so there!

stickyfingerz · 01-16-2006, 11:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PostWhore

i just found out that To get USA citizenship you have to fingerprint ??? ahhahaahah how democratic!!

Wow eat many retard sandwiches today? You have to do more than just get fingerprints. To become a "citizen" you have to take classes and pass tests. Permanent residency is less though. My wife is a permanent resident. How is making sure you are who you say you are undemocratic? This is possibly the dumbest thing Ive read in the last few months.

stickyfingerz · 01-16-2006, 11:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PostWhore

so did I

and the idea of communism is way much more beyond the distribution of wealth

let me guess, you are jew from ukraine, something like odessa whose family did not like the idea of wealth distribtuon

communism was about uniting people, striving to create something big, not just wealth distribution

Why would a commie be on an adult board where the goal is making money?

Manga1 · 01-16-2006, 11:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by leggs

You know what...
I'll go on record as saying that Citizenship is ownership.

My husband has been trying to renounce his Canadian citizenship. But it has been a difficult. He has had his application denied 4 times! And he has fulfilled the criteria.

He has 2 letters ordering him to return to Canada. (And he hasn't commited any crime or owe any taxes.) He is also being threaten with legal action and extradition being brought before the French courts. (If he continues to try to renounce canadian citizenship without accepting another nation's citizenship first.)

But our advocate assures us that all of this will disappear if He pays to the Canadian goverment a certain amount of money. Or he accepts French citizenship.

End result and only conclusion we came to...
We are only property of a goverment.
Slaves or at the very least, serfs.

Is that the departure tax they want you to pay?

Oh and you are right. You are not free. Never were. If you were free then you should be able to renounce your citizenship without a problem.

leggs · 01-16-2006, 11:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Manga1

Is that the departure tax they want you to pay?

Oh and you are right. You are not free. Never were. If you were free then you should be able to renounce your citizenship without a problem.

Noooo it's not a departure tax.

The legal-eze is about 35 pages long regarding "the imbursement."
(And they use the word Imbursement.)

It's not a tax
It's not payment to the goverment for letting you go.
It's not money to secure your future as a "Non-Citizen"
It's not about a dozen other things.

But it is absurdly high and only millionaires can afford it.
The truth is if he pays it, they will acknowledge his renounciation.

The only good news is the attorney said it is a negotiable figure.

Now I personaly think the fight for this is kind of stupid. Especially given how much he will be required to pay.

The ONLY benefit is as a stateless person he can travel to any country and NOT be deported back to Canada.

leggs · 01-16-2006, 11:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kenny

In the sense that they know what fucking country you belong to.

Listen..

I don't like tax laws.. doesn't mean I can say fuck it and not pay taxes.

Where I live I'm required to pay taxes and there is a reason for that.

Where I live I must be a registered citizen and there is a good reason for that.

I suppose if you really felt oppressed about it you can move to some jungle where they don't give a fuck

But in my hubby's defense...

You are the same people that scream out things like,

"If you do NOT like it! Then Leave!"

Well that's exactly what he did. And now everyone is saying to him... "Hey you're a Canadian! Get the fuck back here!"

In hindsight,
Getting jumped out of a gang is easier.
********
Oh and he pays his taxes.
Obeys the law.
Employs people in France.
etc.
And he is NOT a citizen of France.

WME · 01-16-2006, 11:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TeenGodFather

I don't think the US is getting richer by the day...

maybe not the US as a whole but those in power.

Webby · 01-16-2006, 11:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kenny

If you living in a society structured by government then you're a citizen.

I don't see how you expect to live within the system and not be a part of it.

Thats not how it works - like they say

You can't have your cake and eat it too

Imagine living in a place where nobody was accounted for.

DUH?? What are you rambling off on?

I know GFY may not be the university of the planet, but can you lift the level of your comments to above that of a kindergarten?

I live in a society structured by a government and I'm sure not a citizen. Also, I may be part of this society in the social sense, but I sure ain't in any "system".

What's that dialog about "how it works" and who is "they" that are saying??
Dunno about the cake, what kind is it??

You sure got the world worked out eh?

Manga1 · 01-17-2006, 12:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by leggs

Noooo it's not a departure tax.

The legal-eze is about 35 pages long regarding "the imbursement."
(And they use the word Imbursement.)

It's not a tax
It's not payment to the goverment for letting you go.
It's not money to secure your future as a "Non-Citizen"
It's not about a dozen other things.

But it is absurdly high and only millionaires can afford it.
The truth is if he pays it, they will acknowledge his renounciation.

The only good news is the attorney said it is a negotiable figure.

Now I personaly think the fight for this is kind of stupid. Especially given how much he will be required to pay.

The ONLY benefit is as a stateless person he can travel to any country and NOT be deported back to Canada.

Is that even legal? I've never heard of this. On what grounds do they ask for this money? Do they refer to a law at all?

Webby · 01-17-2006, 12:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by leggs

Noooo it's not a departure tax.

The legal-eze is about 35 pages long regarding "the imbursement."
(And they use the word Imbursement.)

It's not a tax
It's not payment to the goverment for letting you go.
It's not money to secure your future as a "Non-Citizen"
It's not about a dozen other things.

But it is absurdly high and only millionaires can afford it.
The truth is if he pays it, they will acknowledge his renounciation.

The only good news is the attorney said it is a negotiable figure.

Now I personaly think the fight for this is kind of stupid. Especially given how much he will be required to pay.

The ONLY benefit is as a stateless person he can travel to any country and NOT be deported back to Canada.

That sounds damned weird leggs. Canada is .. or was... very similar to places like the UK in that respect and there is nothing like that there.

Excuse if I missed a bit along the line but is there any problem simply having dual nationality?

adultchica · 01-17-2006, 12:09 AM

If I lived in canada, I'd never come back here. Free healthcare for everyone. That is the best gift a government can give its people.

kenny · 01-17-2006, 12:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by leggs

But in my hubby's defense...

You are the same people that scream out things like,

"If you do NOT like it! Then Leave!"

Well that's exactly what he did. And now everyone is saying to him... "Hey you're a Canadian! Get the fuck back here!"

In hindsight,
Getting jumped out of a gang is easier.
********
Oh and he pays his taxes.
Obeys the law.
Employs people in France.
etc.
And he is NOT a citizen of France.

The become a citizen of France. That is a option.

Webby · 01-17-2006, 12:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by adultchica

If I lived in canada, I'd never come back here. Free healthcare for everyone. That is the best gift a government can give its people.

Could not agree more AC

Apart from food and shelter, healthcare is prob the next basic element for any civilized society.

OK.. folks paying for it may complain and there may be wastage and abuse of funds - but it's still a basic element.

kenny · 01-17-2006, 12:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Webby

DUH?? What are you rambling off on?

I know GFY may not be the university of the planet, but can you lift the level of your comments to above that of a kindergarten?

I live in a society structured by a government and I'm sure not a citizen. Also, I may be part of this society in the social sense, but I sure ain't in any "system".

What's that dialog about "how it works" and who is "they" that are saying??
Dunno about the cake, what kind is it??

You sure got the world worked out eh?

So your not a citizen of any country?

If you pay taxes then you are in a government system.

If you're not familiar with the cake analogy I'm sorry.

Webby · 01-17-2006, 12:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kenny

So your not a citizen of any country?

If you pay taxes then you are in a government system.

If you're not familiar with the cake analogy I'm sorry.

Sheesh... Yes, I am living in a structured society and no, I don't pay taxes either now that you ask.

And no, I'm not familiar with the supposed cake analogy you mentioned.

Manga1 · 01-17-2006, 12:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kenny

The become a citizen of France. That is a option.

He doesn't want to. Why should he have to?

Kenny, have you not read any philosophy? Anything about freedom, etc.?

kenny · 01-17-2006, 12:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Webby

Sheesh... Yes, I am living in a structured society and no, I don't pay taxes either now that you ask.

And no, I'm not familiar with the supposed cake analogy you mentioned.

You don't pay taxes I have no idea how you managed that BUT you are in a small minority there

Never heard of the cake analogy?

http://www.google.com/search?num=100...and+eat+it+too

Again you are in the minority

kenny · 01-17-2006, 12:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Manga1

He doesn't want to. Why should he have to?

Kenny, have you not read any philosophy? Anything about freedom, etc.?

I don't want to pay taxes

And I don't like to obey some of the laws either

Manga1 · 01-17-2006, 12:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kenny

I don't want to pay taxes

And I don't like to obey some of the laws either

He pays taxes and obeys the laws. He doesn't want to be a citizen there. Did you miss that part?

Webby · 01-17-2006, 12:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kenny

You don't pay taxes I have no idea how you managed that BUT you are in a small minority there

Never heard of the cake analogy?

http://www.google.com/search?num=100...and+eat+it+too

Again you are in the minority

Oh shit. That's the problem with folks who think they have a clue on how the rest of the world works and try to tell everyone about "structured societies, "how it is" and a dialog about cakes.

On taxes... it's called being organized and not exactly a secret or illegal in any sense. A simple clue.. there is such a thing as geo-based taxation systems. They are not exactly uncommon.

Webby · 01-17-2006, 12:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Manga1

He pays taxes and obeys the laws. He doesn't want to be a citizen there. Did you miss that part?

You think some folks just don't get the point sometimes Manga?

kenny · 01-17-2006, 12:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Webby

You think some folks just don't get the point sometimes Manga?

oh - I know EXACTLY how you feel

Sarah_Jayne · 01-17-2006, 12:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by adultchica

If I lived in canada, I'd never come back here. Free healthcare for everyone. That is the best gift a government can give its people.

While the USA getting an NHS would make me think of moving back it is important to point out that NHS systems are not free. It is free at the point of delivery which is a wonderful thing but you do pay for it throught taxes. So, it is not a gift.

Webby · 01-17-2006, 12:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kenny

oh - I know EXACTLY how you feel

Wealthy... cos I don't pay taxes?

Dream on!!

kenny · 01-17-2006, 12:44 AM

Anyway - I'm done with this thread

Good luck with the having no citizenship thing.. you're going to need it

Webby · 01-17-2006, 12:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kenny

Anyway - I'm done with this thread

That's a pity. It was getting funnier by the moment.

kenny · 01-17-2006, 12:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Webby

Wealthy... cos I don't pay taxes?

Dream on!!

WTF are you jabbering about now??

Nevermind - like I said have fun with that

Manga1 · 01-17-2006, 12:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Webby

You think some folks just don't get the point sometimes Manga?

It never ceases to amaze me.

Manga1 · 01-17-2006, 12:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kenny

Anyway - I'm done with this thread

Good luck with the having no citizenship thing.. you're going to need it

Why is the concept so hard for you to grasp. You can be a resident of a country without being a citizen. As far as the tax department is concerned, if you are a resident you pay the taxes, citizen or not. And if you are a resident of a country you are bound by its laws, citizen or not.

So why do you need to be a citizen of any country? To vote? To get drafted? Why?

Webby · 01-17-2006, 12:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kenny

WTF are you jabbering about now??

Moi jabber? Never!

Try and read... you made a comment, you got a comment in return.

Dirty Dane · 01-17-2006, 12:58 AM

It has been used on passports from many countries in many years, and just a type of identification.

In fact its more democratic than signatures, because not all people can't write

Webby · 01-17-2006, 01:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Manga1

It never ceases to amaze me.

That kinda crap always reminds me of the type of lawyers you really don't need to have around. They may be nice folks, but a menace when they utter a simple sentence - bless em

kenny · 01-17-2006, 01:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Manga1

Why is the concept so hard for you to grasp. You can be a resident of a country without being a citizen. As far as the tax department is concerned, if you are a resident you pay the taxes, citizen or not. And if you are a resident of a country you are bound by its laws, citizen or not.

So why do you need to be a citizen of any country? To vote? To get drafted? Why?

Because you have to in one form or another.

Now try and grasp that.

kenny · 01-17-2006, 01:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Webby

That kinda crap always reminds me of the type of lawyers you really don't need to have around. They may be nice folks, but a menace when they utter a simple sentence - bless em

I'm not the one having problems becoming NOT a citizen of anywhere.

kenny · 01-17-2006, 01:10 AM

Why you are at it..

why not just make your properity a sovereign nation so you can be a citizen of your OWN country

Webby · 01-17-2006, 01:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kenny

I'm not the one having problems becoming NOT a citizen of anywhere.

Told ya... an utter menace and incapable of comprehending shit.

My dear fellow... I am not having any problems being not a citizen of anywhere either.

What gave you that idea? You got some problem with citizenship?

kenny · 01-17-2006, 01:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Webby

Told ya... an utter menace and incapable of comprehending shit.

My dear fellow... I am not having any problems being not a citizen of anywhere either.

What gave you that idea? You got some problem with citizenship?

But of course not you don't even pay taxes..

I would think that you would have some form of nationality or citizenship thats recongized.

Now IF what you say is true - imagine if everybody did that. There wouldn't be income for national governemnts to even run on.

leggs · 01-17-2006, 01:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Manga1

Is that even legal? I've never heard of this. On what grounds do they ask for this money? Do they refer to a law at all?

I'm neither my husband nor his attorney. So I really can't point to a specific law. However I can say that we are now into about 3 large boxes of paperwork. And our home has an entire shelf filled with legal texts and such.

My closest guess I can figure is that the money is asked in the same way a bank asks for money if you try to pay off your mortgage early.

I'm really not the person that should be discussing this. If you want I can put you in touch with Hammy.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Webby

That sounds damned weird leggs. Canada is .. or was... very similar to places like the UK in that respect and there is nothing like that there.

Excuse if I missed a bit along the line but is there any problem simply having dual nationality?

He can have dual citizenship. That's NOT a problem and it has been offered to him. Many times!

He does NOT want ANY citizenship at all. Not Canadian, French, British, American or any. He wants the right to be stateless.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kenny

The become a citizen of France. That is a option.

You're missing the point.
He does not want to be French or Canadian or citizen of any other country.

I hear his words all the time in our home . (Especially when he talks to someone on the phone.) And it is written on a piece of on our office wall.

"It's my life and I will live it where I want and how I want. I will live it free and not be owned by anyone or anything."

And you know...
My opinion on this is, ookaay...
It's a useless fight.
But since he isn't hurting anyone...
What's the problem? Let him go!

kenny · 01-17-2006, 01:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kenny

Why you are at it..

why not just make your properity a sovereign nation so you can be a citizen of your OWN country

Somebody explain why you can't just do this instead.

This would be way better then just NOT being a citizen

bhutocracy · 01-17-2006, 01:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kenny

Why you are at it..

why not just make your properity a sovereign nation so you can be a citizen of your OWN country

Petoria?

Manga1 · 01-17-2006, 01:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kenny

Because you have to in one form or another.

Now try and grasp that.

You still haven't answered my question. If you are a resident of a country and pay taxes, follow laws, and are accounted for in the sense that the government knows who you are and that you exist, then why do you need citizenship?

Manga1 · 01-17-2006, 01:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by leggs

"It's my life and I will live it where I want and how I want. I will live it free and not be owned by anyone or anything."

I like the way your husband thinks.

Webby · 01-17-2006, 01:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kenny

But of course not you don't even pay taxes.

I would think that you would have some form of nationality or citizenship thats recongized.

Now IF what you say is true - imagine if everybody did that. There wouldn't be income for national governemnts to even run on.

Correct.. I don't pay taxes.

Yes, I do have "some form of nationality that's recognized".

And thirdly... it is true. Would this upset your applecart and the basis of human existance as you know it if everyone did the same?

Manga1 · 01-17-2006, 01:25 AM

100 free thinkers

01-16-2006, 10:15 PM	#55
kenny Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 7,245	In the sense that they know what fucking country you belong to. Listen.. I don't like tax laws.. doesn't mean I can say fuck it and not pay taxes. Where I live I'm required to pay taxes and there is a reason for that. Where I live I must be a registered citizen and there is a good reason for that. I suppose if you really felt oppressed about it you can move to some jungle where they don't give a fuck __________________ 7

01-17-2006, 12:09 AM	#67
adultchica Confirmed User Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: usa Posts: 5,141	If I lived in canada, I'd never come back here. Free healthcare for everyone. That is the best gift a government can give its people. __________________

01-17-2006, 12:44 AM	#81
kenny Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 7,245	Anyway - I'm done with this thread Good luck with the having no citizenship thing.. you're going to need it __________________ 7

01-17-2006, 01:10 AM	#91
kenny Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 7,245	Why you are at it.. why not just make your properity a sovereign nation so you can be a citizen of your OWN country __________________ 7

01-16-2006, 08:41 PM	#53
The Demon Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 7,336	I will say it once again for all you moronic porno pushers. If you are unsatisfied with the way this country is run(liberal), get the hell out, nobody wants you here..

01-17-2006, 12:58 AM	#87
Dirty Dane Sick Fuck Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: www Posts: 9,491	It has been used on passports from many countries in many years, and just a type of identification. In fact its more democratic than signatures, because not all people can't write

01-17-2006, 01:25 AM	#100
Manga1 Confirmed User Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Malakiaville Posts: 952	100 free thinkers