MetaformX

sup. This is for those of you who currently own or who have owned a paysite in the past before, what do you think is the "perfect" price to charge for a membership? Obviously, the goal would be to try and maximize revenues, and at what price do you think you can perfectly balance the price of a membership and acquiring as many members as possible.

for example, its great to charge $35 for a 1 month membership, but if you get 2 members a day at that price, compared to getting 5 members a day at $20 a membersship, obviously your revenues are maximized with the lesser price.

Does price even matter? or once that customer finds your site interesting and decides to take out his credit card, is price not even a factor? is there such a thing as a price contience porn surfer?

lastly, do you think it would be a good idea to list the price of a membership in big bold letters on the main page of a paysite? or is it better to have the surfer go through your tours first, and then hit him with the price? Paysite owners, lets hear it!

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eru

I think $20-$30 is a good price. I've seen sites that charge $50 a month, but I would stay away from those.

-eru

SykkBoy

I think design is more important that price...
if your site looks hot and sells, then price is really a moot point for the most part...
porn surfers don't necessarily price shop...they just want to get into the site that'll get them off ;))

that also depends upon marketing as well....

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Joe Blow

I don't own a paysite but I reckon as a consumer a buck a day is fair for membership to a decent site...

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Amputate Your Head

This is basically unanswerable.... it's something you need to decide when you figure out how you want to work it, because it's different for every person.... some people pinch every penny they can in everything they do... even buying some shitty store brand over a brand name in the grocery store just to save .03 cents.... while other people don't give a shit about price and only want the best of what's available....

example: I go to the electronics store.... I buy one component cable for my audio system here that costs $198 bucks... the fucker is gold plated Monster Cable.

The guy next door goes to radio shack, buys $7.99 worth of the cheapest shit he can find and puts a cable together in his kitchen with a soldering iron he got as a promo freebie from JC Whitney when he ordered the $3.99 curb feelers for his run down Gremlin.

I'm no analyst, but I would assume porn is no different than any other consumer good. You got your big spenders and you got your guys on the median with a cardboard sign saying "will scrub your window with a greasy newspaper for a 30 second glance at some hardcore". (there's more.. I'm not done yet....)

The penny-pinchers don't care about things like quality or value for the dollar. They only want rock bottom price. The big spenders are just the opposite. Price is irrelevant. Quality and value is prime. And, of course, I would guess the majority falls somewhere in between. Spending high on certain things, low on others where quality isn't a big factor. (smart shoppers)

When pricing.... you gotta either take the middle of the road to grab the majority and snag as many from the ends as you can, or you cater to one or the other extreme (custom tailored suits versus K-mart) exclusively and work the hell out of that angle.

Things to think about.

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Kimmykim

The lower your recurring price, the longer your cc customers will stay. Keep in mind tho, people change up Mastercards and Visas quite frequently, especially when there are good interest rates offered on balance transfers. If they change cards and cut the old one up, they can't be recurred again.

Check customers are a different story, they seem to bite at a lower trial price and pay more on recurring from what I've seen. Keep in mind I am referring to cumulative numbers, not just a single site or two.

Hopefully your processor allows you to have multiple join pages to the same sites, with the same tours, so you can play around with the combinations to see what works.

Personally I like 4.95/29-34.95 recur for credit cards and 2.95/39.95 recur on checks.

If you do not run a trial (something else you can experiment with on a multiple join page setup like I mentioned above) then I would try 9.95, 14.95, and 19.95, and see what impacts your conversions the least since I think any of these will retain about the same these days.

You might also want to try some marketing, especially if you own multiple sites. Nothing worse than a guy that cancels prior to logging in the first time, maybe offering him a bonus site -- IN THE confirmation email, NOT AS part of the sales pitch -- might make your members feel like they are getting something unexpected and maybe they'll at least check out both sites before they cancel, and perhaps even keep one of them.

For the guy that comes in, downloads your member area and then cancel prior to the trial running out... well I'd like to see a way to implement the Brick of Love on his sorry freeloading ass...

Amputate Your Head

How true.... but I want to ask you if you find this to be more true for older experienced credit users than all credit users? (or is there no way for you to obtain this data?) That's what I would lean towards i guess...... and with the first time credit users.... the college kids.... I would tend to think that more often than not they have self control problems, run up their cards, and end up getting them cut off for charging beyond their limit or inability to pay consistenly.... yet another problem.... can't recur if they're maxed out.

UnseenWorld

The answer to this question lies in your site and your traffic. In my own case, my site (at http://www.girlsdotcom.com) features my own photography only. It is strictly a soft/medium-core site. Never a guy on it...ever. Girls solo, girls using toys, girls having sex with girls. It's for guys who aren't interested in looking at hard-ons, in other words.

I charge $19.95/mo recurring and $21.95/mo nonrecurring. I have members who've been members more than a year. I have members who go from buying memberships a month at a time (recurring or nonrecurring) and then decide they like it so much they buy a 3-month membership ($55). I do have a 3-day trial for $3.95, which I'm thinking of dropping, since my tour actually shows a LOT of my content (in lower resolution than the material inside).

Once inside, they find an update schedule. I tell them what's coming up. Scheduled updates are every six days. Once they are members for a while, they notice that I always give them one or two surprise updates between the scheduled updates. I feel that this is important to keep them on their toes and to make them think twice when they think about terminating their membership. It's important to note that the surprise updates are very good material...just as good as the regular updates, and sometimes better. Never disappoint and keep them guessing is how I feel.

At any rate, how much you charge is set by the market, not by those of us who are replying. Just as you always need to try new things on your site(s), so you need to experiment with pricing.

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Amputate Your Head

Bingo.... there is no *perfect* price. Each site is different.... inside and out... keep in mind that if you are not having the success you projected with a particular site, you should take a close look at all the factors before drastically changing your prices. It may not be your pricing that is the problem.

Kimmykim

Comes right back around to being able to try multiple join setups at the same time.

Some traffic -- like reseller traffic, will never convert like your own. Poor targeting, cheating, etc always makes this traffic harder to convert and retain.

Where the traffic you have comes from can make a difference as well, etc, etc

My advice is to try a few different setups with your different traffic, even try different tours for the same back end, until you get something optimized for you ---

ElvisManson

When we moved to the $2.95-$39.95 from $1.95 -$29.95 we didn't notice any change in the number of people that signed up or recurred.

having multiple billing options and multiple processors within those billing options is far more important than how much you charge.

pr0

All this kick-ass information...& now you see why im kimmykim's #1 fan

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Frank W

Good content retains well too

ServerGenius

The perfect price to me is that amount that my customers are willing to pay for my sites without feeling they got robbed.
I want them to feel good about it and keep them as a member
longer than 1 month.

The amount itself can vary all depends on quality, niche, amount of content, updates, etc, etc.

DynaMite

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playa

like sykkboy says most porn surfers don't shop around,,,
they just buy on impules depending on how good your sales pages are...

also trials should be eliminated,,, stop letting them leechers download your whole site with only a 2.95 trial then cancel,,,
let them pay 29-39 for the whole month and give them a chance to like the site

Jamie

girlsdotcom.com, now that's a name I haven't seen in ages. Unseen, do you remember doing a hosting deal in exchange for using your content back in... 97 I think?

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Wizzo

I think that is like asking, "how much is a car worth?" Different sites have different price points. Trial and error (or maybe no trial) is the only way to find out.

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Darren

this is a brilliante question and I agree with Wizzo on "it depends on the site"

But what about 3 day FREE trials? worth doing?

Amputate Your Head

IMHO.... if you're gonna give someone a 3 day free trial.... you had beter have some seriously nice shit and lot's of it in your members area to keep them on.... or in 3 days, they'll be done with you.

MetaformX

yeah, good point guys. I think the majority opinion is price is not as big a factor as the quality of the site and content.
I should prolly mention that the paysite in question will start out with 50-100 GB of high quality video and picture content, and then we would be updating it with about 1 GB of content per month after that. im thinking of not having any trials, and setting the membership price at either $22.22 or $33.33
the paysite design is also very highquality....professional design(although it is not finished yet). would you go with 22.22 or 33.33?

also, kimmykim, i have a question for you. I am starting this paysite with a partner, and he is a internet security expert and works on the backend and website developement of several mainstream companies....he told me that he has worked with CCBILL about a year or so ago, and he had a very small paysite going and had both check and creditcard proccessing, but was told later on by CCBILL that aproximatly 90% of the transactions using checks are fraud? i told him that this is not possible, or no processor would ever allow check proccessing, but he insists this is the case. Were thinking about going with CCBILL for our processing...Can you tell me what the fraud rate for checks are compared to creditcards? any info you can give me would be appreciated. thanks!

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s9ann0

charge as much as the procesor will let you!

if you find one that willl let u recurr a 3 days trial @ $49.99 a month billed in three month cycles lmk

sweetcuties

This is one of the most fuckin intelligent questions out there:

I've been in the biz for a lil over a year and I just changed my pricing. Last year, I charged $7.95 for 7 days and $19.95 per month. Just 3 months ago, I changed my price to $7.95 for 3 days and $24.95 per mth and I noticed a fatter check! If you've got quality content and a good design, members will pay!!

Another thing is to offer as many billing options as possible. I use ccbill (credit card billing) ibill (900# billing) and money orders. Believe it or not, I get a few money orders The only thing that sucks about M/O is that it's usually for 1mth or a trial (waste of time)

I hope this helps. Good luck!

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Shaggy

I read somewhere that the number 7 stimulates more sales than any other number. ($27.95 or $37.95)

As for billing lower than $20, I wouldn't recommend it. The battle is to get the card out and get them to enter the information. I'm sure charging more than $30 will drop the conversions a little, but I don't see any difference in $9.95 and $19.95 at all.

Keep the content as good as possible and slowly add on more features. Keep news of new features coming in the weeks ahead and surprise them from time to time.

Sex Uncensored charges $49.95 but I bet they retain people, the high rollers that come through and have been to other sites will most likely camp there for a bit. Simply because they have the most kick ass member's section I have seen. They must spend a grip on content and are always on the lookout for new stuff to add. I think they are doing it right. But, you need some serious cash to start a site like that.

candidpublishinginc

I bill either $3.99 per minute or $39.99 for 2 weeks of access depending on the dialer being promoted through my dialer network. (Which is in private beta now)

Conversions are fantastic, and we get quite a few recurring calls!

Although some of you may disagree, the per minute dialer is great for those surfers would want to get on, get off, and get out.

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erotictrance

Any idea Kimmy as to why this is the case?

And what about higher fraud risk with checks?

BTW ... great info ... thanks ...

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erotictrance

erotictrance

On another note ...

The consensus here seems to be that lowering prices (as long as they're not outragously high to begin with) doesn't have that much positive impact on conversions ...

But many webmasters have told me that RAISING prices DOES have a negative impact on recurring memberships ...

Just wondering if anybody wants to comment on that ...

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MetaformX

kimmykim, your opinion is needed. read my post above if you would please. thanx 8)

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tha_timinator

what it comes down to (having read this thread) is that there is a large interval (f.e. $10 to $30) in which pricing doesn't matter... conversion changes will be seen when going below (<$10) or above (>$30) that interval ...

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Big E

KK, I'm not so sure about that. You're looking at it strictly from the processing side [ok, $14.95 members have 'x' months retention vs $29.95 members having 'y' months retention] but you have to consider the websites - solo/single model sites typically charge under $20 and have longer than normal retentions, but that does not mean that lower prices causes longer retentions. It's the content stu.. err.. silly. =)

erotictrance

Probably true ....

But as Elvis pointed out, he went from $2.95-$39.95 to $1.95 -$29.95 and he didn't notice any change in the number of people that signed up or recurred.

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Shaggy

You get what you pay for. If people feel they aren't getting a good deal. They will leave. We really can't have a discussion about what you should charge monthly until we see each other's members section.

For instance, Bang Bus charges $24.95 a month. But their member's area is weak. So maybe that's a good price for them. If they actually spent money on some content I bet they could retain a lot more people for a lot longer.

You should charge according to the value you bring to the table. People know if they are getting a good deal or not. If you have a lot of content then you might be able to jump from 34.95 to 39.95 and not see a difference. For the guy who did that, I would assume to has a nice membership section.

pr0view

i do believe that the bell in the surfer's head starts to ring for anything above $30... i stick to $2.95/ $24.95 on my paysite...

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Kimmykim

Was out of town for the weekend, sorry metaform about the delay --

Checks arent 90% fraud, but they are higher fraud than credit cards because there simply aren't as many ways to verify that it's the real person, account, etc.

The other thing with checks is that someone can have money today, but not in 5 days when the check settles -- the banks don't put a hold on the money if you ask them if it's there, they simply say it's there.

Overall checks can increase your net by 10% minimum I'd say. If you are running a reseller program, I'd suggest holding check joins out for 7 days to make sure the checks clear, since webmasters seem to be the best at using checks for fraudulent joins.

As for the rest of my numbers Big E, looking at things from a processing standpoint gives me the ability to isolate different types of sites -- i.e. single girl amateur from the big megasites, and I can not only look at the overall picture but at the subsets that make up the numbers as well.

A good processor should be able to evaluate overall numbers, as well as groups of numbers, such as fetish, gay, etc, and come up with suggestions to make their clients as much money as they can, imo. I also evaluate numbers for people that don't necessarily do business with CCBill, and I used to work for one of the larger programs before I came to CCBill, so I have that experience as well to draw from, stup... err, silly. ;)


ET -- if I could figure out exactly why the numbers are the way they are, I'd probably be the most in demand person on the net ;) -- I'm not sure the reasons that it works out the way it does, but I've looked at enough numbers to know that in the majority of cases it does come out that way

UnseenWorld

Yes, I do. I've got another one now. How're things? It sounded to me like you were getting out of adult back then.

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NickB.

Why would you do that? if your site has a great membersection!
recurring will be great believe me!

BVF

kimmykim...when is CCbill going to allow 900 number signups? I don't really want to fuck with globill or ibill. I want all my money in one big check. I hope the fraud rate isn't cited because the check fraud is crazy high and y'all support that.

Kimmykim

It's not the fraud rate, BVF, it's the fact that there is no clear age verification on 900 number transactions. Until there's a way to do that, or the age to look at nudie pics is done away with, we aren't planning to implement anything like it.

Sorry, I know that's not what you want to hear

vegasdude

here is my

For my ebook on my gambling site I played around with my price for a whole fucking year. Everything from $15 to $150...

I tried $27... worked GREAT!

It ended up on $47 and doing even better so I have to agree there is something about the number 7....

I have an affiliate with a product simular to mine and he ended up charging $47 to... strange but we both agree its a fair price not to cheap and not toooo expensive

Vegas

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FATPad

$1000.

Conversions blow, but I only need 4 or 5 sales a month.

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Fletch XXX

Paypal is treating me really nice lately... as for price, I dont use the same pay structure on any of my sites, being common is not part of The Alliance.

It all depends and how you work it.

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chodadog

Let's not get meta into anymore "marketing"

wig

For you paysite owners that are looking for information abut check processing some of the specifics you should check out http://www.achdebit.com/sales/study.html

WTS is the only processor offering Canadian checks and introduced ACH (checks) to the adult market. We have the lowest returns (fraud) in the industry.

Checks it out and see whay the the biggest names in the industry use WTS.

Wig javascript:smilie('')
smile

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MetaformX

hah! i was born to market baby! My popularity right now is higher then the bush familly everytime they bomb a middle eastern country.

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Darren

bump, fucking great posts, can help new webbys.

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Milton

35 is normallo

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willow

Can I ask how you do age verification with a check? I had a checking account at 12.

payrollpete

willow

you can get mastercard cheque cards when you are a minor, whats your point

willow

I have no point. I asked a question. CCBill don't do 900 because there is no age verification. There isn't for checks either. What's the difference, why take checks and not 900?

I believe the feds have accepted that having a credit card is good enough to prove age. Whether it's technically true or not, you CAN use Visa/MC cards as age verification. If the same is true for checks then I've answered my own question. But is it?