To sponsors selling DVDs and other shit in members area without paying affiliates - GoFuckYourself.com

Fletch XXX · 09-08-2005, 08:34 AM

Your days are numbered.

There are some big companies who love to brag about their conversions, and retention.

take a look at the member secton and youll see why you are not rebilling like they say.

must be nice, just throw in DVDs that no one gets credit for, and sell products to members that no affiliate gets credit for - yet you brag about retention?

the reason i personally have seen retention droop with a sponsor is because they are now selling DVDs from the member section.

pay site subscribers stop rwebilling once they buy DVDs of the content.

i am entering member sections for all remaining sponsors we push and pulling all links to people with upsells we do not get paid for.

i suggest all of you take a look at your numbers and do the same.

Harmon · 09-08-2005, 08:36 AM

Hmmm... post some names please

QuaWee · 09-08-2005, 08:39 AM

are you talking about meatcash?

Fletch XXX · 09-08-2005, 08:45 AM

i am not directing this at any ONE sponsor, although there are a couple I have in mind.

My partner brought something to my attention, i check it out, verified the traffic leaks and as I have been doing for the past 3 years - phasing out all sponsors who pull shit like this.

the list is getting more narrow every year.

the consistent marketing of DVDs to rebilling rev share members is not cool.

sponsors will be removed, simple as that.

djroof · 09-08-2005, 08:48 AM

I trust MALCOM ;)

Bugbee · 09-08-2005, 08:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fletch XXX

i am not directing this at any ONE sponsor, although there are a couple I have in mind.

My partner brought something to my attention, i check it out, verified the traffic leaks and as I have been doing for the past 3 years - phasing out all sponsors who pull shit like this.

the list is getting more narrow every year.

the consistent marketing of DVDs to rebilling rev share members is not cool.

sponsors will be removed, simple as that.

Key word being rebilling rev share members, Fletch do you not like PPS sponsors? We can pay out at $42 plus are paying out $50 per trial until Sept 15th.. I understand where you are coming from happens with exits in rev share as well.. good luck

pradaboy · 09-08-2005, 08:59 AM

I agree, I've seen this around a lot

Fletch XXX · 09-08-2005, 09:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GigaBugbee

Key word being rebilling rev share members, Fletch do you not like PPS sponsors?

I make lots of sales with PPS sponsors.

This post is directed at a few types of sponsors:

but mostly ones that sell products to rebilling rev share members.

I dont complain much about the PPS guys because i cant worry about the member section if I am getting a $30+ sign up, so yes this is about taking advantage of affiliates with rebills.

JerseyPuma · 09-08-2005, 09:00 AM

I have a wacky idea. Send to per-signup programs and make more money.

Fletch XXX · 09-08-2005, 09:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JerseyPuma

I have a wacky idea. Send to per-signup programs and make more money.

I use both, but this has NOTHING to do with sponsors that were at one time good rebilling/revshare sponsors - and now the rebills are fading away - due to obvious DVD sales.

Martin · 09-08-2005, 09:05 AM

yes on a recurring sponsor that wouldn't be cool.

Bugbee · 09-08-2005, 09:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fletch XXX

I make lots of sales with PPS sponsors.

This post is directed at a few types of sponsors:

but mostly ones that sell products to rebilling rev share members.

I dont complain much about the PPS guys because i cant worry about the member section if I am getting a $30+ sign up, so yes this is about taking advantage of affiliates with rebills.

I hear ya!!!

bigdog · 09-08-2005, 09:32 AM

A lot more webmasters should pay attention to the members areas of some revshare programs, many guys are not even updating anymore.

Manowar · 09-08-2005, 09:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigdog

A lot more webmasters should pay attention to the members areas of some revshare programs, many guys are not even updating anymore.

yep you gotta pick wisely

cherrylula · 09-08-2005, 10:02 AM

or just send your traffic straight to the shit people upsell to in their members areas, which is much easier than trying to make money with someone elses paysites when that is what they are doing in their members area anyhow. Content is way overrated.

cherrylula · 09-08-2005, 10:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mystery Man

I suggest you shut the fuck up and build your own shit then instead of pointing fingers at programs. If you dont like how its done then send your traffic elsewhere (if you have any that is) nobody is holding a gun to your head.

well duuuuh of course

but some people have zillions of links to change out which takes time and sucks balls.

Manowar · 09-08-2005, 10:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mystery Man

I suggest you shut the fuck up and build your own shit then instead of pointing fingers at programs. If you dont like how its done then send your traffic elsewhere (if you have any that is) nobody is holding a gun to your head.

he's more making the point that affiliates send traffic without knowing this

Fletch XXX · 09-08-2005, 10:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mystery Man

I suggest you shut the fuck up

I suggest you take your own advice.

Ninja Scripts · 09-08-2005, 10:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mystery Man

I suggest you shut the fuck up and build your own shit then instead of pointing fingers at programs. If you dont like how its done then send your traffic elsewhere (if you have any that is) nobody is holding a gun to your head.

Brilliant post.

Not really.

Far-L · 09-08-2005, 10:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fletch XXX

Your days are numbered.

There are some big companies who love to brag about their conversions, and retention.

take a look at the member secton and youll see why you are not rebilling like they say.

must be nice, just throw in DVDs that no one gets credit for, and sell products to members that no affiliate gets credit for - yet you brag about retention?

the reason i personally have seen retention droop with a sponsor is because they are now selling DVDs from the member section.

pay site subscribers stop rwebilling once they buy DVDs of the content.

i am entering member sections for all remaining sponsors we push and pulling all links to people with upsells we do not get paid for.

i suggest all of you take a look at your numbers and do the same.

I am happy to say that is not us... We made it so our webmasters get paid not only on memberships but also on dvds and our vod with their affiliate code tracking it all. Sorry if that comes off as spam but I thought it best to separate ourselves from the wide net of your accusation...

Jason · 09-08-2005, 10:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JerseyPuma

I have a wacky idea. Send to per-signup programs and make more money.

LOL.. I like your thinking

AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE · 09-08-2005, 10:17 AM

Upsells in members area's are standard:/

Unless the business model is built to just get members in, sell them the dvd's.
Again...

"Know thy sponsor", as a creed once again comes to mind.

Fletch XXX · 09-08-2005, 10:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mystery Man

Ok so let me see if I'm getting this right.

You want 60%
Free hosting
Free hosted galleries
Sponsor to cover processing fees
Sponsor to update site with exclusive shoots weekly in order to retent.

Try doing the fucking math kiddos and see how much is left for the paysite owner.
Or better yet start your own site with the above formular and we will see how well you're doing.

Sponsors should not rely on affiliates if they have to fuck them over to stay afloat.

I love when paysite owners whine about not making enough money

That just proves they won't be around long anyhow.

seeric · 09-08-2005, 10:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Far-L

I am happy to say that is not us... We made it so our webmasters get paid not only on memberships but also on dvds and our vod with their affiliate code tracking it all. Sorry if that comes off as spam but I thought it best to separate ourselves from the wide net of your accusation...

i don't see it as spam at all.

sltr · 09-08-2005, 10:20 AM

u have absolutely ZERO proof that DVD sales to members cause rebills to decline

Fletch XXX · 09-08-2005, 10:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlienQ

Upsells in members area's are standard:/

But the recent explosion of people selling DVDs of THE MOVIE CONTENT in their site, exclusive videos etc - has nothing to do with the old upsells of the past.

The recent explosion of DVD content within membr areas is clearly not the same as upselling to a singles site, or personals site or cam feeds etc.

I am talking about selling DVDs of the tour content etc.

Big difference.

cherrylula · 09-08-2005, 10:22 AM

paysites are just not what they used to be nowdays when its all out there for free anyhow.

Fletch XXX · 09-08-2005, 10:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sltr

u have absolutely ZERO proof that DVD sales to members cause rebills to decline

My opinion is as useless as everyones.

This thread was not started as a debate about anything. It was started as a call to people to look into the member sections of sites they push. I thought that was pretty clear.

Quote:

i suggest all of you take a look at your numbers and do the same.

cherrylula · 09-08-2005, 10:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sltr

u have absolutely ZERO proof that DVD sales to members cause rebills to decline

you obviously haven't tested the markets.

sltr · 09-08-2005, 10:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cherrylula

you obviously haven't tested the markets.

you are incorrect in making that assumption

Morgan · 09-08-2005, 10:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fletch XXX

Your days are numbered.

There are some big companies who love to brag about their conversions, and retention.

take a look at the member secton and youll see why you are not rebilling like they say.

must be nice, just throw in DVDs that no one gets credit for, and sell products to members that no affiliate gets credit for - yet you brag about retention?

the reason i personally have seen retention droop with a sponsor is because they are now selling DVDs from the member section.

pay site subscribers stop rwebilling once they buy DVDs of the content.

i am entering member sections for all remaining sponsors we push and pulling all links to people with upsells we do not get paid for.

i suggest all of you take a look at your numbers and do the same.

we dont sell dvd's in our members areas. but ive been thinking of giving them away for free to members that stay 3 months, every 3 months they can pick a few more. dunno, just an idea

Ninja Scripts · 09-08-2005, 10:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mystery Man

Ok so let me see if I'm getting this right.

You want 60%
Free hosting
Free hosted galleries
Sponsor to cover processing fees
Sponsor to update site with exclusive shoots weekly in order to retent.

Try doing the fucking math kiddos and see how much is left for the paysite owner.
Or better yet start your own site with the above formular and we will see how well you're doing.

And if you think a fucking upsell to a DVD store does the difference between a sponsor converting trials at 20% or 50% then you still have a looooooooong way to come.

You sir will never run a successful anything.

Translation · 09-08-2005, 10:32 AM

i'm sure these programs will be devestated at the loss of your tremendous volume of traffic.

TheDoc · 09-08-2005, 10:34 AM

This thread is kinda stupid..

DVD's sales, exclusively in the members area, does NOT make retention any worse, upsells in general do not change retention unless the site has tons of upsells.
Sites that release new DVD's monthly will retain better and have better return on old members.

I have been testing member area designs, upsells, dvd's, updates, etc for the past 6 years on paysites.. Retention is only effected by layout of site (if its hard to use) and the amount of updates the site does VS the price of the site and speed of the site. Period.

You want to kill retention, check out how many sites only allow one video download at a time. (speed of the site)

AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE · 09-08-2005, 10:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fletch XXX

But the recent explosion of people selling DVDs of THE MOVIE CONTENT in their site, exclusive videos etc - has nothing to do with the old upsells of the past.

The recent explosion of DVD content within membr areas is clearly not the same as upselling to a singles site, or personals site or cam feeds etc.

I am talking about selling DVDs of the tour content etc.

Big difference.

I agree. But does it have much to do with retention at all is the question.
Summary is basically they subscribe, watch the movies and unsubscribe and most likely never even buy the DVD's LOL

Retention is a problem in the first place and the DVD's probably have nothing to do with it.

TheDoc · 09-08-2005, 10:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ninja Scripts

You sir will never run a successful anything.

MM is a rather successful webmaster and has been in the paysite game longer than most everyone on this board.

slapass · 09-08-2005, 10:40 AM

Sort of funny how internet is now going bricks and mortar to make extra cash.

I saw Lightspeed either discussing this or doing it and his retention is the highest I have, so keep it up if it works.

Ninja Scripts · 09-08-2005, 10:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDoc

MM is a rather successful webmaster and has been in the paysite game longer than most everyone on this board.

Any paysite owner bitching about paying 60% and not being able to make money isn't "successful". There are crack addicted 20 year olds living with their mom that make money in this business, does that make them a success?

Far-L · 09-08-2005, 10:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fletch XXX

But the recent explosion of people selling DVDs of THE MOVIE CONTENT in their site, exclusive videos etc - has nothing to do with the old upsells of the past.

The recent explosion of DVD content within membr areas is clearly not the same as upselling to a singles site, or personals site or cam feeds etc.

I am talking about selling DVDs of the tour content etc.

Big difference.

I have to agree with you. People want the dvds for numerous reasons. I don't have any numbers on how it affects member site retention, which is something we don't have a problem with anyway, but I do know that at least for us people are more interested in buying the dvds than the vod versions.

Like I said though, we just made Homegrown so site, vod, dvd, tracks under one affiliate id to keep our affiliates happy. What other programs do it that way? I have yet to see one but admittedly I don't get out much...

TheDoc · 09-08-2005, 10:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ninja Scripts

Any paysite owner bitching about paying 60% and not being able to make money isn't "successful". There are crack addicted 20 year olds living with their mom that make money in this business, does that make them a success?

I guess you don't run paysites..

We don't pay 60%, we pay 60% to webmasters, bandwidth, 10%+ to new content each month, plugins, galleries, ads, employees, etc.. The 40% profit margin we had is now 10%..

So bitching that we don't pay on DVD upsells is BS.. Its making us more cash so at the end of the day we can provide webmasters with more crap to push us with.

Ninja Scripts · 09-08-2005, 10:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDoc

I guess you don't run paysites..

We don't pay 60%, we pay 60% to webmasters, bandwidth, 10%+ to new content each month, plugins, galleries, ads, etc.. The 40% profit margin we had is now 10%..

So bitching that we don't pay on DVD upsells is BS.. Its making us more cash so at the end of the day we can provide webmasters with more crap to push us with.

Now go have a look at all your sales with no referrer that are a DIRECT result of your affiliates. 10% profit margin my ass. You might have an initial 10% profit margin on the original sale but you can't magically forget type ins, branding, return buyers, etc.

Edit: And I guess you drive a pinto on that 10% since the poor paysite owner is just screwed?

TheDoc · 09-08-2005, 10:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ninja Scripts

Now go have a look at all your sales with no referrer that are a DIRECT result of your affiliates. 10% profit margin my ass. You might have an initial 10% profit margin on the original sale but you can't magically forget type ins, branding, return buyers, etc.

Edit: And I guess you drive a pinto on that 10% since the poor paysite owner is just screwed?

Paysites are about volume, revshare or pps programs.. The profit margin increases over years and years of being open due to the branding which we pay webmasters on so it's fair.

Why do you think big companies have started to drop ads, employees, and all the extra BS.. More profit because the profit margin % isn't all that high, damn sure not as high as everyone seems to think it is.

And the profit margin is about 10%, Max 20%.. companies that drive in their own traffic have a much higher %.. But we are talking about webmasters and not our own promos.

Ninja Scripts · 09-08-2005, 10:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDoc

Paysites are about volume, revshare or pps programs.. The profit margin increases over years and years of being open due to the branding which we pay webmasters on so it's fair.

Why do you think big companies have started to drop ads, employees, and all the extra BS.. More profit because the profit margin % isn't all that high, damn sure not as high as everyone seems to think it is.

And the profit margin is about 10%, Max 20%.. companies that drive in their own traffic have a much higher %.. But we are talking about webmasters and not our own promos.

Yes I understand how the paysite model works. 10% isn't much but you benefit so much more than that. Are you trying to say that everyone paying 60% revshare without upsells are losing money? There are plently of sites that are just fine.

TheDoc · 09-08-2005, 11:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ninja Scripts

Yes I understand how the paysite model works. 10% isn't much but you benefit so much more than that. Are you trying to say that everyone paying 60% revshare without upsells are losing money? There are plently of sites that are just fine.

Upsells based off of the % of members you have makes you jack shit, its just extra cash in the bank to help make more. Nobody said 60% programs without upsells lose money.. It's about making a bit more money..

The point of this post was upsells / DVD's would change retention, which they don't do so bitching about having upsells and not paying the webmasters is just BS. We pay you for the sale to the site, if you want to make money on the DVD's then sell the DVD's through a different site.

I don't have DVD's btw, sold out a while back, retention has never been better.. The more I update the better I retain the more webmasters make.

Fletch XXX · 09-08-2005, 11:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDoc

The point of this post was upsells / DVD's would change retention

No, please do not translate my posts, or put words in my mouth.

I simply expressed my frustration, addressed the sponsors, and encouraged the following:

Quote:

i suggest all of you take a look at your numbers and do the same.

In regards to retention, I said:

Quote:

the reason i personally have seen retention droop with a sponsor is because they are now selling DVDs from the member section.

Which translates to me stating my concern, and what I feel is the issue and my decision to change out content and links.

That's about it. Don't speak for me.

Ninja Scripts · 09-08-2005, 11:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDoc

Upsells based off of the % of members you have makes you jack shit, its just extra cash in the bank to help make more. Nobody said 60% programs without upsells lose money.. It's about making a bit more money..

The point of this post was upsells / DVD's would change retention, which they don't do so bitching about having upsells and not paying the webmasters is just BS. We pay you for the sale to the site, if you want to make money on the DVD's then sell the DVD's through a different site.

I don't have DVD's btw, sold out a while back, retention has never been better.. The more I update the better I retain the more webmasters make.

He specifically said DVD's of the content that is part of the site. Also, he got paid a % for sending them member there but not a % of everything you sold them. Wouldn't waste my traffic on that either, ever.

Fletch XXX · 09-08-2005, 11:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDoc

I don't have DVD's btw, sold out a while back, retention has never been better.. The more I update the better I retain the more webmasters make.

i concur.

DVDs hinder retention.

TheDoc · 09-08-2005, 11:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fletch XXX

the reason i personally have seen retention droop with a sponsor is because they are now selling DVDs from the member section.

This translate to DVD's would change retention, so I didn't put words in your mouth.

Far-L · 09-08-2005, 11:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fletch XXX

i concur.

DVDs hinder retention.

Well, I would have to disagree with that. Our retention is amazing and for all the reasons the Doc mentioned, frequency of updates, ease of nav., good customer service.The DVDs are great... but you can only see our UNCUT versions online...

Fletch XXX · 09-08-2005, 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Far-L

Well, I would have to disagree with that. Our retention is amazing and for all the reasons the Doc mentioned, frequency of updates, ease of nav., good customer service.The DVDs are great... but you can only see our UNCUT versions online...

I was joking and being sarcastic, considering what his statement was regarding the DVDs not having an effect on the retention ;)

I simply said my personal experience, as of now, I believe it to be related to DVD sales. The dvd sells are everywhere and its obvious in my experience. Thats all.

And I encouraged othwers to maybe do a little research. Nothing wrong with that.

09-08-2005, 08:34 AM	#1
Fletch XXX GFY HALL OF FAME DAMMIT!!! Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: that 504 Posts: 60,840	To sponsors selling DVDs and other shit in members area without paying affiliates Your days are numbered. There are some big companies who love to brag about their conversions, and retention. take a look at the member secton and youll see why you are not rebilling like they say. must be nice, just throw in DVDs that no one gets credit for, and sell products to members that no affiliate gets credit for - yet you brag about retention? the reason i personally have seen retention droop with a sponsor is because they are now selling DVDs from the member section. pay site subscribers stop rwebilling once they buy DVDs of the content. i am entering member sections for all remaining sponsors we push and pulling all links to people with upsells we do not get paid for. i suggest all of you take a look at your numbers and do the same. __________________ Want an Android App for your tube, membership, or free site? Need banners or promo material? Hit us up (ICQ Fletch: 148841377) or email me fletchxxx at gmail.com - recent work - About me

09-08-2005, 08:36 AM	#2
Harmon ( ͡ʘ╭͜ʖ╮͡ʘ) Industry Role: Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 20,010	Hmmm... post some names please __________________ [email protected]

09-08-2005, 08:39 AM	#3
QuaWee Confirmed User Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: boogers Posts: 5,791	are you talking about meatcash? __________________ i luv mainstream

09-08-2005, 08:45 AM	#4
Fletch XXX GFY HALL OF FAME DAMMIT!!! Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: that 504 Posts: 60,840	i am not directing this at any ONE sponsor, although there are a couple I have in mind. My partner brought something to my attention, i check it out, verified the traffic leaks and as I have been doing for the past 3 years - phasing out all sponsors who pull shit like this. the list is getting more narrow every year. the consistent marketing of DVDs to rebilling rev share members is not cool. sponsors will be removed, simple as that. __________________ Want an Android App for your tube, membership, or free site? Need banners or promo material? Hit us up (ICQ Fletch: 148841377) or email me fletchxxx at gmail.com - recent work - About me

09-08-2005, 08:59 AM	#7
pradaboy sell me your banners Industry Role: Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: on the tubes Posts: 12,931	I agree, I've seen this around a lot __________________ Media Buyer - Sell me your traffic! FREE to register domains... Better than 99% of the crap sold here!

09-08-2005, 08:48 AM	#5
djroof JuicyDevils.gr Owner Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Greece Posts: 25,416	I trust MALCOM ;)

09-08-2005, 09:00 AM	#9
JerseyPuma Confirmed User Join Date: May 2002 Location: FL Posts: 1,149	I have a wacky idea. Send to per-signup programs and make more money. __________________ LOVERCASH.COM good dating sites.

09-08-2005, 09:05 AM	#11
Martin "Assassins" Industry Role: Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: At home Posts: 17,277	yes on a recurring sponsor that wouldn't be cool. __________________

09-08-2005, 09:32 AM	#13
bigdog Confirmed User Join Date: Jul 2001 Posts: 6,964	A lot more webmasters should pay attention to the members areas of some revshare programs, many guys are not even updating anymore.

09-08-2005, 10:02 AM	#15
cherrylula lol Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 15,969	or just send your traffic straight to the shit people upsell to in their members areas, which is much easier than trying to make money with someone elses paysites when that is what they are doing in their members area anyhow. Content is way overrated.

09-08-2005, 10:17 AM	#22
AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE best designer on GFY Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: IALIEN.COM - High Definition Video and Photographic Productions -ICQ 78943384 Posts: 30,307	Upsells in members area's are standard:/ Unless the business model is built to just get members in, sell them the dvd's. Again... "Know thy sponsor", as a creed once again comes to mind. __________________ NAKED HOSTING FTW!11 I'm On The INSANE PLAN $9.95/mo! \| The Alien Blog Adult News Worth Reading Updated Daily \| Content For Sale! 641 PICS 216 MINUTES OF VIDEO $350.00 \|ICQ: 78943384 \|

09-08-2005, 10:20 AM	#25
sltr Confirmed User Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 3,191	u have absolutely ZERO proof that DVD sales to members cause rebills to decline

09-08-2005, 10:22 AM	#27
cherrylula lol Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 15,969	paysites are just not what they used to be nowdays when its all out there for free anyhow.

09-08-2005, 10:32 AM	#33
Translation Confirmed User Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 482	i'm sure these programs will be devestated at the loss of your tremendous volume of traffic.

09-08-2005, 10:34 AM	#34
TheDoc Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Currently Incognito Posts: 13,827	This thread is kinda stupid.. DVD's sales, exclusively in the members area, does NOT make retention any worse, upsells in general do not change retention unless the site has tons of upsells. Sites that release new DVD's monthly will retain better and have better return on old members. I have been testing member area designs, upsells, dvd's, updates, etc for the past 6 years on paysites.. Retention is only effected by layout of site (if its hard to use) and the amount of updates the site does VS the price of the site and speed of the site. Period. You want to kill retention, check out how many sites only allow one video download at a time. (speed of the site) __________________ ~TheDoc - ICQ7765825 It's all disambiguation

09-08-2005, 10:40 AM	#37
slapass Too lazy to set a custom title Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Earth Posts: 14,625	Sort of funny how internet is now going bricks and mortar to make extra cash. I saw Lightspeed either discussing this or doing it and his retention is the highest I have, so keep it up if it works.